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On December 15 2017 18:19 Noonius wrote:
here's a thought to make raven great again: maybe bring back the damn seeker missile
Yes. Terran do not have a way to punish mass clumped up air any more.
Basically as soon as Protoss get their Carrier/Tempest/HT ball Terran is dead. And it is easier than ever to get to that point since Protoss is stronger in the early and mid game now.
Even before the Raven nerf late game was Protoss favored. Now TvP is just awful to play. Neither bio nor mech works, Terran hold no midgame advantage any more and late game is even more Protoss favored.
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On December 15 2017 18:28 MockHamill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 18:19 Noonius wrote:
here's a thought to make raven great again: maybe bring back the damn seeker missile Yes. Terran do not have a way to punish mass clumped up air any more. Basically as soon as Protoss get their Carrier/Tempest/HT ball Terran is dead. And it is easier than ever to get to that point since Protoss is stronger in the early and mid game now. Even before the Raven nerf late game was Protoss favored. Now TvP is just awful to play. Neither bio nor mech works, Terran hold no midgame advantage any more and late game is even more Protoss favored.
Nerfing skytoss seems a lot more sensible to me than trying to bring back a cancerous mass spellcaster composition. Ravens need help but mass ravens really doesn't.
One thing that I'm surprised more people aren't talking about is the viper which is the key unit in TvZ lategame. Parasitic Bomb in particular seems too strong at 120 damage and annihilates vikings even better than pre- patch.
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On December 15 2017 18:41 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 18:28 MockHamill wrote:On December 15 2017 18:19 Noonius wrote:
here's a thought to make raven great again: maybe bring back the damn seeker missile Yes. Terran do not have a way to punish mass clumped up air any more. Basically as soon as Protoss get their Carrier/Tempest/HT ball Terran is dead. And it is easier than ever to get to that point since Protoss is stronger in the early and mid game now. Even before the Raven nerf late game was Protoss favored. Now TvP is just awful to play. Neither bio nor mech works, Terran hold no midgame advantage any more and late game is even more Protoss favored. Nerfing skytoss seems a lot more sensible to me than trying to bring back a cancerous mass spellcaster composition. Ravens need help but mass ravens really doesn't. One thing that I'm surprised more people aren't talking about is the viper which is the key unit in TvZ lategame. Parasitic Bomb in particular seems too strong at 120 damage and annihilates vikings even better than pre- patch.
Yes I agree that nerfing skytoss is the right move but Blizzard seems to have a blind spot when it comes to nerfing skytoss. Maybe because it is not as abused on pro level as much compared to normal level? But neither where mass Ravens, they were mostly a ladder problem, not a pro problem.
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On December 15 2017 13:18 Myrddraal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 10:49 Major wrote:On December 15 2017 10:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman. No disrespect Major, you're a better player then I could ever hope to become but let's face it, your comment is dumb and aggressive, this balance team is leagues better then David Kim, regardless if you are unhappy about the current position that Terran is in, I didn't exactly see you winning any premier tournaments when Terran was in a good spot balance wise or anything. This patch is fantastic, Stalkers shouldn't have been nerfed because they are pointing Protoss in the right direction, powerful and expensive low tier units that benefit from micro, making them weaker wasn't the right thing to do. The Disruptor seems like the Swarm Host in a different race, a unit that is too complex to gracefully balance and teeters on being overpowered or underpowered, they should just put the Reaver in while the Protoss metagame is still malleable and be done with it. Zerg probably is a bit too strong vs. Protoss right now but it teeters on a razors edge, Protoss either falls apart to early game aggression, played way too passive and get's out expanded too much to recover, or gets their invincible army and the Zerg looks helpeless, ZvP has some weird dynamics going on at the moment. Perhaps Hydralisks are too strong vs ground units and could be changed to be more fragile but more potent against air? Say, revert their health back but give them + 1 range vs air units? They just get obliterated so hard by Phoenix/Oracle (I know this has been slightly nerfed), Carriers, even Void Rays in critical mass burn them down but Protoss ground units need to engage Hydralisk armies extremely carefully or they get wrecked, perhaps that dynamic could be tweaked and improved? so u relize they buffed stalker collosus disruptor chnro boost gave em recall all on 1 patch and they gave terran. nerf on ghost nerf on mine a servos upgrade and a worse raven. and they expect for TvP to be balanced exacltly why?. why if you make all protoss army stronger and terran army kept the same. why would the match up remain balanced?. also when exactly was terran good?. terran was good around iem katowice thats been almost a year brother so idk what u saying here. So, this balance team has clearly seen that Protoss is favoured and are nerfing chrono and disruptors in order to see where we are after that, and based on their responses they are clearly actually listening to community feedback. And you have the audacity to whine and tell them to step down? Grow up dude.
On December 15 2017 10:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman.
Just gotta love those people that casually play a game but like to spout their opinion about it on a forum trying to disprove the balance concerns of pro players (that are actually trying to make a living out of it). We finally have the chance to get pro players really taking a side about balance matters only to be assaulted by uninformed idiots.
Glad major and scarlett are stating their opinions, and there should be more pro players doing so.
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The Raven feels like a very, very expensive, non-cloaked Observer at the moment. Just scrap the whole thing redesign it again.
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On December 15 2017 19:32 JackONeill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 13:18 Myrddraal wrote:On December 15 2017 10:49 Major wrote:On December 15 2017 10:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman. No disrespect Major, you're a better player then I could ever hope to become but let's face it, your comment is dumb and aggressive, this balance team is leagues better then David Kim, regardless if you are unhappy about the current position that Terran is in, I didn't exactly see you winning any premier tournaments when Terran was in a good spot balance wise or anything. This patch is fantastic, Stalkers shouldn't have been nerfed because they are pointing Protoss in the right direction, powerful and expensive low tier units that benefit from micro, making them weaker wasn't the right thing to do. The Disruptor seems like the Swarm Host in a different race, a unit that is too complex to gracefully balance and teeters on being overpowered or underpowered, they should just put the Reaver in while the Protoss metagame is still malleable and be done with it. Zerg probably is a bit too strong vs. Protoss right now but it teeters on a razors edge, Protoss either falls apart to early game aggression, played way too passive and get's out expanded too much to recover, or gets their invincible army and the Zerg looks helpeless, ZvP has some weird dynamics going on at the moment. Perhaps Hydralisks are too strong vs ground units and could be changed to be more fragile but more potent against air? Say, revert their health back but give them + 1 range vs air units? They just get obliterated so hard by Phoenix/Oracle (I know this has been slightly nerfed), Carriers, even Void Rays in critical mass burn them down but Protoss ground units need to engage Hydralisk armies extremely carefully or they get wrecked, perhaps that dynamic could be tweaked and improved? so u relize they buffed stalker collosus disruptor chnro boost gave em recall all on 1 patch and they gave terran. nerf on ghost nerf on mine a servos upgrade and a worse raven. and they expect for TvP to be balanced exacltly why?. why if you make all protoss army stronger and terran army kept the same. why would the match up remain balanced?. also when exactly was terran good?. terran was good around iem katowice thats been almost a year brother so idk what u saying here. So, this balance team has clearly seen that Protoss is favoured and are nerfing chrono and disruptors in order to see where we are after that, and based on their responses they are clearly actually listening to community feedback. And you have the audacity to whine and tell them to step down? Grow up dude. Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 10:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman. Just gotta love those people that casually play a game but like to spout their opinion about it on a forum trying to disprove the balance concerns of pro players (that are actually trying to make a living out of it). We finally have the chance to get pro players really taking a side about balance matters only to be assaulted by uninformed idiots. Glad major and scarlett are stating their opinions, and there should be more pro players doing so.
lol, major didn't even post a real opinion, just whining
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On December 15 2017 20:27 -NegativeZero- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 19:32 JackONeill wrote:On December 15 2017 13:18 Myrddraal wrote:On December 15 2017 10:49 Major wrote:On December 15 2017 10:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman. No disrespect Major, you're a better player then I could ever hope to become but let's face it, your comment is dumb and aggressive, this balance team is leagues better then David Kim, regardless if you are unhappy about the current position that Terran is in, I didn't exactly see you winning any premier tournaments when Terran was in a good spot balance wise or anything. This patch is fantastic, Stalkers shouldn't have been nerfed because they are pointing Protoss in the right direction, powerful and expensive low tier units that benefit from micro, making them weaker wasn't the right thing to do. The Disruptor seems like the Swarm Host in a different race, a unit that is too complex to gracefully balance and teeters on being overpowered or underpowered, they should just put the Reaver in while the Protoss metagame is still malleable and be done with it. Zerg probably is a bit too strong vs. Protoss right now but it teeters on a razors edge, Protoss either falls apart to early game aggression, played way too passive and get's out expanded too much to recover, or gets their invincible army and the Zerg looks helpeless, ZvP has some weird dynamics going on at the moment. Perhaps Hydralisks are too strong vs ground units and could be changed to be more fragile but more potent against air? Say, revert their health back but give them + 1 range vs air units? They just get obliterated so hard by Phoenix/Oracle (I know this has been slightly nerfed), Carriers, even Void Rays in critical mass burn them down but Protoss ground units need to engage Hydralisk armies extremely carefully or they get wrecked, perhaps that dynamic could be tweaked and improved? so u relize they buffed stalker collosus disruptor chnro boost gave em recall all on 1 patch and they gave terran. nerf on ghost nerf on mine a servos upgrade and a worse raven. and they expect for TvP to be balanced exacltly why?. why if you make all protoss army stronger and terran army kept the same. why would the match up remain balanced?. also when exactly was terran good?. terran was good around iem katowice thats been almost a year brother so idk what u saying here. So, this balance team has clearly seen that Protoss is favoured and are nerfing chrono and disruptors in order to see where we are after that, and based on their responses they are clearly actually listening to community feedback. And you have the audacity to whine and tell them to step down? Grow up dude. On December 15 2017 10:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman. Just gotta love those people that casually play a game but like to spout their opinion about it on a forum trying to disprove the balance concerns of pro players (that are actually trying to make a living out of it). We finally have the chance to get pro players really taking a side about balance matters only to be assaulted by uninformed idiots. Glad major and scarlett are stating their opinions, and there should be more pro players doing so. lol, major didn't even post a real opinion, just whining
"Every balance concern that i don't agree with is whining, even when it comes from a pro player that's arguably the best foreign terran atm".
Well isn't that great.
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Very disappointed with not changing the Stalkers. Guess will have to post more on bnet forums.
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On December 15 2017 20:27 -NegativeZero- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 19:32 JackONeill wrote:On December 15 2017 13:18 Myrddraal wrote:On December 15 2017 10:49 Major wrote:On December 15 2017 10:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman. No disrespect Major, you're a better player then I could ever hope to become but let's face it, your comment is dumb and aggressive, this balance team is leagues better then David Kim, regardless if you are unhappy about the current position that Terran is in, I didn't exactly see you winning any premier tournaments when Terran was in a good spot balance wise or anything. This patch is fantastic, Stalkers shouldn't have been nerfed because they are pointing Protoss in the right direction, powerful and expensive low tier units that benefit from micro, making them weaker wasn't the right thing to do. The Disruptor seems like the Swarm Host in a different race, a unit that is too complex to gracefully balance and teeters on being overpowered or underpowered, they should just put the Reaver in while the Protoss metagame is still malleable and be done with it. Zerg probably is a bit too strong vs. Protoss right now but it teeters on a razors edge, Protoss either falls apart to early game aggression, played way too passive and get's out expanded too much to recover, or gets their invincible army and the Zerg looks helpeless, ZvP has some weird dynamics going on at the moment. Perhaps Hydralisks are too strong vs ground units and could be changed to be more fragile but more potent against air? Say, revert their health back but give them + 1 range vs air units? They just get obliterated so hard by Phoenix/Oracle (I know this has been slightly nerfed), Carriers, even Void Rays in critical mass burn them down but Protoss ground units need to engage Hydralisk armies extremely carefully or they get wrecked, perhaps that dynamic could be tweaked and improved? so u relize they buffed stalker collosus disruptor chnro boost gave em recall all on 1 patch and they gave terran. nerf on ghost nerf on mine a servos upgrade and a worse raven. and they expect for TvP to be balanced exacltly why?. why if you make all protoss army stronger and terran army kept the same. why would the match up remain balanced?. also when exactly was terran good?. terran was good around iem katowice thats been almost a year brother so idk what u saying here. So, this balance team has clearly seen that Protoss is favoured and are nerfing chrono and disruptors in order to see where we are after that, and based on their responses they are clearly actually listening to community feedback. And you have the audacity to whine and tell them to step down? Grow up dude. On December 15 2017 10:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman. Just gotta love those people that casually play a game but like to spout their opinion about it on a forum trying to disprove the balance concerns of pro players (that are actually trying to make a living out of it). We finally have the chance to get pro players really taking a side about balance matters only to be assaulted by uninformed idiots. Glad major and scarlett are stating their opinions, and there should be more pro players doing so. lol, major didn't even post a real opinion, just whining
I really like Scarlett and major as players and people but when it comes to their balancing whining... I can't take anything scarlett says about protoss seriously. Even if top 8s at major tournements were all zerg and 1 protoss she would still whine.. Oh wait that does happen lmao. And neeb blows everyone out of the game.
Anyways, its not like people who argued to keep the stalker strong didn't disagree with terran buffs elsewhere.
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On December 15 2017 21:08 JackONeill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 20:27 -NegativeZero- wrote:On December 15 2017 19:32 JackONeill wrote:On December 15 2017 13:18 Myrddraal wrote:On December 15 2017 10:49 Major wrote:On December 15 2017 10:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman. No disrespect Major, you're a better player then I could ever hope to become but let's face it, your comment is dumb and aggressive, this balance team is leagues better then David Kim, regardless if you are unhappy about the current position that Terran is in, I didn't exactly see you winning any premier tournaments when Terran was in a good spot balance wise or anything. This patch is fantastic, Stalkers shouldn't have been nerfed because they are pointing Protoss in the right direction, powerful and expensive low tier units that benefit from micro, making them weaker wasn't the right thing to do. The Disruptor seems like the Swarm Host in a different race, a unit that is too complex to gracefully balance and teeters on being overpowered or underpowered, they should just put the Reaver in while the Protoss metagame is still malleable and be done with it. Zerg probably is a bit too strong vs. Protoss right now but it teeters on a razors edge, Protoss either falls apart to early game aggression, played way too passive and get's out expanded too much to recover, or gets their invincible army and the Zerg looks helpeless, ZvP has some weird dynamics going on at the moment. Perhaps Hydralisks are too strong vs ground units and could be changed to be more fragile but more potent against air? Say, revert their health back but give them + 1 range vs air units? They just get obliterated so hard by Phoenix/Oracle (I know this has been slightly nerfed), Carriers, even Void Rays in critical mass burn them down but Protoss ground units need to engage Hydralisk armies extremely carefully or they get wrecked, perhaps that dynamic could be tweaked and improved? so u relize they buffed stalker collosus disruptor chnro boost gave em recall all on 1 patch and they gave terran. nerf on ghost nerf on mine a servos upgrade and a worse raven. and they expect for TvP to be balanced exacltly why?. why if you make all protoss army stronger and terran army kept the same. why would the match up remain balanced?. also when exactly was terran good?. terran was good around iem katowice thats been almost a year brother so idk what u saying here. So, this balance team has clearly seen that Protoss is favoured and are nerfing chrono and disruptors in order to see where we are after that, and based on their responses they are clearly actually listening to community feedback. And you have the audacity to whine and tell them to step down? Grow up dude. On December 15 2017 10:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman. Just gotta love those people that casually play a game but like to spout their opinion about it on a forum trying to disprove the balance concerns of pro players (that are actually trying to make a living out of it). We finally have the chance to get pro players really taking a side about balance matters only to be assaulted by uninformed idiots. Glad major and scarlett are stating their opinions, and there should be more pro players doing so. lol, major didn't even post a real opinion, just whining "Every balance concern that i don't agree with is whining, even when it comes from a pro player that's arguably the best foreign terran atm". Well isn't that great.
i do agree with him, ravens are bad right now. but there was no actual substance/suggestions/criticism in that quote other than "fuck you blizz, ravens still suck". that is the definition of whining, plain and simple.
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On December 15 2017 22:34 -NegativeZero- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 21:08 JackONeill wrote:On December 15 2017 20:27 -NegativeZero- wrote:On December 15 2017 19:32 JackONeill wrote:On December 15 2017 13:18 Myrddraal wrote:On December 15 2017 10:49 Major wrote:On December 15 2017 10:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman. No disrespect Major, you're a better player then I could ever hope to become but let's face it, your comment is dumb and aggressive, this balance team is leagues better then David Kim, regardless if you are unhappy about the current position that Terran is in, I didn't exactly see you winning any premier tournaments when Terran was in a good spot balance wise or anything. This patch is fantastic, Stalkers shouldn't have been nerfed because they are pointing Protoss in the right direction, powerful and expensive low tier units that benefit from micro, making them weaker wasn't the right thing to do. The Disruptor seems like the Swarm Host in a different race, a unit that is too complex to gracefully balance and teeters on being overpowered or underpowered, they should just put the Reaver in while the Protoss metagame is still malleable and be done with it. Zerg probably is a bit too strong vs. Protoss right now but it teeters on a razors edge, Protoss either falls apart to early game aggression, played way too passive and get's out expanded too much to recover, or gets their invincible army and the Zerg looks helpeless, ZvP has some weird dynamics going on at the moment. Perhaps Hydralisks are too strong vs ground units and could be changed to be more fragile but more potent against air? Say, revert their health back but give them + 1 range vs air units? They just get obliterated so hard by Phoenix/Oracle (I know this has been slightly nerfed), Carriers, even Void Rays in critical mass burn them down but Protoss ground units need to engage Hydralisk armies extremely carefully or they get wrecked, perhaps that dynamic could be tweaked and improved? so u relize they buffed stalker collosus disruptor chnro boost gave em recall all on 1 patch and they gave terran. nerf on ghost nerf on mine a servos upgrade and a worse raven. and they expect for TvP to be balanced exacltly why?. why if you make all protoss army stronger and terran army kept the same. why would the match up remain balanced?. also when exactly was terran good?. terran was good around iem katowice thats been almost a year brother so idk what u saying here. So, this balance team has clearly seen that Protoss is favoured and are nerfing chrono and disruptors in order to see where we are after that, and based on their responses they are clearly actually listening to community feedback. And you have the audacity to whine and tell them to step down? Grow up dude. On December 15 2017 10:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman. Just gotta love those people that casually play a game but like to spout their opinion about it on a forum trying to disprove the balance concerns of pro players (that are actually trying to make a living out of it). We finally have the chance to get pro players really taking a side about balance matters only to be assaulted by uninformed idiots. Glad major and scarlett are stating their opinions, and there should be more pro players doing so. lol, major didn't even post a real opinion, just whining "Every balance concern that i don't agree with is whining, even when it comes from a pro player that's arguably the best foreign terran atm". Well isn't that great. i do agree with him, ravens are bad right now. but there was no actual substance/suggestions/criticism in that quote other than "fuck you blizz, ravens still suck". that is the definition of whining, plain and simple.
did u bother to even read?
Stalker is just simply put too strong, they buffed alot of protoss core unit (collosus and stalker) and kept terran army exactly the same but a nerf to ghost and mine.
they removed mothership core. and while its a big change its not that big. if you pay close attention to progames before patch vs Terran they would make mothership core if they knew A) all in was coming B) after taking a 3rd base because there was very little terran could do cause oracle opening was so strong. so in this patch for the lack of mothership core. which was already a pretty lated build unit vs Terran. they gave it a stornger stalker, a pretty good defence in the battery shield a stronger collosus. and completly imbalanced recall that needs at very least be more mana 50 mana is a joke for what it does. and a Stronger chrno boost. all this buffs for the removal of 1 unit. does it really merit it? of course not
now lets see what they changed for terran
Raven - Healing drone useless vs p, Misile useless vs P , Matrix can be good vs P but not really worth making it to disable an unit for some seconds. its expensive and delays alot of your tech atleast in old patch you could use turrets to help your push when they played robo or pdd to stop stalkers shots
Mine - Nerfed
Ghost - Nerfed. starting with cloak all it does it make some cheeses more strong that all are stopped by making a shield battery in your mineral line anyway. when you make ghost in tvp you need the energy to do the timing rush. ghost are not like templar u dont make ghost to just sit there and let em grow mana like templars. because they are not good defensive units. so making em start with less mana and adding the upgrade again its a bad change and not a very well tought one
New mech upgrades - they ok but this dosent adress any balance at all just a niche
so as you can clearly see they mostly nerf terran and buff protoss for the compesation of the removal of 1 unit. and i dont blame them i thought the removal of msc would be bigger. but if you really think about it. protoss was already making it very late because its not really needed to defend anything terran trowed at them during last patch. and same holds in this one. but instead they buffed like 5 things that are core for protoss.
if that isnt explained well enough its the best u gonna get. cause i dont devote my life to writing on forums its pretty well explained they buff alot of protoss for the removal of 1 unit that wasnt that key in the match up? not that hard to undestearnd
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On December 15 2017 19:32 JackONeill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 13:18 Myrddraal wrote:On December 15 2017 10:49 Major wrote:On December 15 2017 10:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman. No disrespect Major, you're a better player then I could ever hope to become but let's face it, your comment is dumb and aggressive, this balance team is leagues better then David Kim, regardless if you are unhappy about the current position that Terran is in, I didn't exactly see you winning any premier tournaments when Terran was in a good spot balance wise or anything. This patch is fantastic, Stalkers shouldn't have been nerfed because they are pointing Protoss in the right direction, powerful and expensive low tier units that benefit from micro, making them weaker wasn't the right thing to do. The Disruptor seems like the Swarm Host in a different race, a unit that is too complex to gracefully balance and teeters on being overpowered or underpowered, they should just put the Reaver in while the Protoss metagame is still malleable and be done with it. Zerg probably is a bit too strong vs. Protoss right now but it teeters on a razors edge, Protoss either falls apart to early game aggression, played way too passive and get's out expanded too much to recover, or gets their invincible army and the Zerg looks helpeless, ZvP has some weird dynamics going on at the moment. Perhaps Hydralisks are too strong vs ground units and could be changed to be more fragile but more potent against air? Say, revert their health back but give them + 1 range vs air units? They just get obliterated so hard by Phoenix/Oracle (I know this has been slightly nerfed), Carriers, even Void Rays in critical mass burn them down but Protoss ground units need to engage Hydralisk armies extremely carefully or they get wrecked, perhaps that dynamic could be tweaked and improved? so u relize they buffed stalker collosus disruptor chnro boost gave em recall all on 1 patch and they gave terran. nerf on ghost nerf on mine a servos upgrade and a worse raven. and they expect for TvP to be balanced exacltly why?. why if you make all protoss army stronger and terran army kept the same. why would the match up remain balanced?. also when exactly was terran good?. terran was good around iem katowice thats been almost a year brother so idk what u saying here. So, this balance team has clearly seen that Protoss is favoured and are nerfing chrono and disruptors in order to see where we are after that, and based on their responses they are clearly actually listening to community feedback. And you have the audacity to whine and tell them to step down? Grow up dude. Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 10:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman. Just gotta love those people that casually play a game but like to spout their opinion about it on a forum trying to disprove the balance concerns of pro players (that are actually trying to make a living out of it). We finally have the chance to get pro players really taking a side about balance matters only to be assaulted by uninformed idiots. Glad major and scarlett are stating their opinions, and there should be more pro players doing so.
Assaulted? Hahaha! Good one mate.
Major eventually gave proper opinions, his first comment was just whining. If you actually paid attention to what I was saying in my posts, you would see I don't even disagree with his opinion on the balance, but his shitty attitude. The balance team seems to be genuinely trying to work things out, and are communicating openly with us, firing back with "they're clueless, they need to quit" is not helping.
Agreed, they should be stating their opinions, but that doesn't mean that we should bow down and worship them for it, they are humans and should be able to have a reasonable discussion. Just like the balance team is made up of people, and if you present reasonable arguments instead of telling them to quit, they just may be more likely to listen.
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I think the problem with the Raven abilities are the following:
1. The armour-debuff does not synergize well with mech. 3 more damage from tanks is almost nothing, Thors fight against Carrier/Tempest in single target mode and 3 more damage does very little to change the outcome of the fight.
Solution: Make the target units take 20% more damage from attacks instead.
2. The healing ability heals too slowly compared to medivacs and shield batteries. It is only slightly useful after a battle, it would be better if healed faster so that it would help in the actual batttle.
Solution: Make the healing ability heal faster.
3. The lockdown ability is only useful in TvT against tanks. All other high value targets simply retreat if you try to shut down their attack.
Solution: The target unit also moves 50% slower making it easier to snipe retreating units. This would really help against Carrier/Tempest/HT which Terran curently do not have a good answer to.
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Czech Republic12128 Posts
On December 15 2017 23:01 MockHamill wrote:
...
3. The lockdown ability is only useful in TvT against tanks. All other high value targets simply retreat if you try to shut down their attack.
Solution: The target unit also moves 50% slower making it easier to snipe retreating units.
I really don't want more slowing abilities in this game. We have more than I like right now, we don't need any other. (I would appreciate removing all of them including force field, but then the Protss buff would cause some players heart attacks)
Edit> wording
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On December 15 2017 23:01 MockHamill wrote:
I think the problem with the Raven abilities are the following:
1. The armour-debuff does not synergize well with mech. 3 more damage from tanks is almost nothing, Thors fight against Carrier/Tempest in single target mode and 3 more damage does very little to change the outcome of the fight.
Solution: Make the target units take 20% more damage from attacks instead.
2. The healing ability heals too slowly compared to medivacs and shield batteries. It is only slightly useful after a battle, it would be better if healed faster so that it would help in the actual batttle.
Solution: Make the healing ability heal faster.
3. The lockdown ability is only useful in TvT against tanks. All other high value targets simply retreat if you try to shut down their attack.
Solution: The target unit also moves 50% slower making it easier to snipe retreating units. This would really help against Carrier/Tempest/HT which Terran curently do not have a good answer to.
It should either work like lockdown so the unit cannot move or have a much higher duration.
They can even make it cost 75 energy if necessary but make the spell worth ir.
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On December 15 2017 18:28 MockHamill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 18:19 Noonius wrote:
here's a thought to make raven great again: maybe bring back the damn seeker missile Yes. Terran do not have a way to punish mass clumped up air any more. Basically as soon as Protoss get their Carrier/Tempest/HT ball Terran is dead. And it is easier than ever to get to that point since Protoss is stronger in the early and mid game now. Even before the Raven nerf late game was Protoss favored. Now TvP is just awful to play. Neither bio nor mech works, Terran hold no midgame advantage any more and late game is even more Protoss favored.
you clearly never played against BCS/Ravens, it was impossible to beat as protoss. I wonder how it is now with no PDD.
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On December 15 2017 22:51 Myrddraal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 19:32 JackONeill wrote:On December 15 2017 13:18 Myrddraal wrote:On December 15 2017 10:49 Major wrote:On December 15 2017 10:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman. No disrespect Major, you're a better player then I could ever hope to become but let's face it, your comment is dumb and aggressive, this balance team is leagues better then David Kim, regardless if you are unhappy about the current position that Terran is in, I didn't exactly see you winning any premier tournaments when Terran was in a good spot balance wise or anything. This patch is fantastic, Stalkers shouldn't have been nerfed because they are pointing Protoss in the right direction, powerful and expensive low tier units that benefit from micro, making them weaker wasn't the right thing to do. The Disruptor seems like the Swarm Host in a different race, a unit that is too complex to gracefully balance and teeters on being overpowered or underpowered, they should just put the Reaver in while the Protoss metagame is still malleable and be done with it. Zerg probably is a bit too strong vs. Protoss right now but it teeters on a razors edge, Protoss either falls apart to early game aggression, played way too passive and get's out expanded too much to recover, or gets their invincible army and the Zerg looks helpeless, ZvP has some weird dynamics going on at the moment. Perhaps Hydralisks are too strong vs ground units and could be changed to be more fragile but more potent against air? Say, revert their health back but give them + 1 range vs air units? They just get obliterated so hard by Phoenix/Oracle (I know this has been slightly nerfed), Carriers, even Void Rays in critical mass burn them down but Protoss ground units need to engage Hydralisk armies extremely carefully or they get wrecked, perhaps that dynamic could be tweaked and improved? so u relize they buffed stalker collosus disruptor chnro boost gave em recall all on 1 patch and they gave terran. nerf on ghost nerf on mine a servos upgrade and a worse raven. and they expect for TvP to be balanced exacltly why?. why if you make all protoss army stronger and terran army kept the same. why would the match up remain balanced?. also when exactly was terran good?. terran was good around iem katowice thats been almost a year brother so idk what u saying here. So, this balance team has clearly seen that Protoss is favoured and are nerfing chrono and disruptors in order to see where we are after that, and based on their responses they are clearly actually listening to community feedback. And you have the audacity to whine and tell them to step down? Grow up dude. On December 15 2017 10:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman. Just gotta love those people that casually play a game but like to spout their opinion about it on a forum trying to disprove the balance concerns of pro players (that are actually trying to make a living out of it). We finally have the chance to get pro players really taking a side about balance matters only to be assaulted by uninformed idiots. Glad major and scarlett are stating their opinions, and there should be more pro players doing so. Assaulted? Hahaha! Good one mate. Major eventually gave proper opinions, his first comment was just whining. If you actually paid attention to what I was saying in my posts, you would see I don't even disagree with his opinion on the balance, but his shitty attitude. The balance team seems to be genuinely trying to work things out, and are communicating openly with us, firing back with "they're clueless, they need to quit" is not helping. Agreed, they should be stating their opinions, but that doesn't mean that we should bow down and worship them for it, they are humans and should be able to have a reasonable discussion. Just like the balance team is made up of people, and if you present reasonable arguments instead of telling them to quit, they just may be more likely to listen.
Was going to pretty much same this same thing but you beat me to it. If Major would have led off with his explanations and not, "Omfg balance team so bad don't even play their own game they need to quit" is just retarded and will get you flamed no matter who you are, especially a pro player who should be able to chime in with something a bit more productive.
By the way, they should buff Terran by reverting the Marauder changes, that nerf was done at a time when Ultralisks were bad and Terran was too strong, that's no longer the case and bio is suffering, it's time to make the Marauder great again.
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Stalkers are ridiculously strong, 3 hits/ marine WHAT??? Can't wait to see Protoss murders Terran in up coming tournaments. We all know top Terran have been struggling so much vs Protoss these days.
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The problem with the Raven is that it is either too strong or too weak. The unit is supposed to be specialize and support... But if it is too strong... Like before 4.0 patch, then just mass build them.
Now they make it so weak, it is almost useless.
Haha they should just bring back the science vessel. Not too strong and not too weak.
This is the same with oracle.
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On December 15 2017 14:08 Skyro wrote:
Curious so what do the pros think of current PvZ balance? If they agree it is heavily zerg favored, then taking a holistic view wouldn't it make sense to buff T? Multiple nerfs to PvZ would only further the PvZ imbalance, possibly worse than PvT is now.
I'm not going to argue pros opinions on balance, all I can say is that the Stalker is a lot more fun to use and feels like it actually has a defined role now, which is really good in terms of game design. Previously it felt like an expensive unit that hit like a wet noodle and the only time you wanted to build it late game is when you needed emergency AA.
yeah of course you find Stalkers are more fun to use since you can use it against all Terran's opening and try your FANCY micro again poor marines with only 45hp and short firing range, lol.
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