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Well i've done the math for you :
Chrono is 100% faster, so 1s is 2s, so if it lasts 10s, it's like you have waited 20s, a oracle needs 43s so with full chronoboost :
Oracle is currently built in 21,5s using 3 chronos. (With 2 chronos it's 23s).
If chrono is 50%, 1s is like 1,5s, so during 20s it's like you have waited 30s, as oracle needs 37s, with full chronoboost :
Oracle will be built in 24.7s with 2 chronoboosts and 27s with 1 chrono.
I'm not sure that oracle coming 3.2s later will make a big difference.
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the chrono change isn't specifically intended to nerf the oracle build time, it's a much more significant nerf to timings and upgrades.
anyway, i'm really glad they didn't go through with the stalker change, they feel fun to use right now, with the long cooldown.
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great changes! lets keep making the game fun.
I wonder how they plan to address the large imbalance in PvZ post-mothership core being removed. I think a great start would be overlord drops.
Another thing I have seen mentioned is reverting the hydra heath buff. It would help both PvZ AND TvZ. It would essentially be the same nerf as the adept got last year, which proved to even out the winrates well.
To add on, mass oracle has already been greatly nerfed, so reducing the health isn't a big deal.
the Disruptor change is dumb though, but at least they aren't making it not viable...
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On December 15 2017 07:33 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 07:23 DieuCure wrote:With Warchest money, they could have done a sort of an online pre season between November and December , so it would have been easier to know what to change. They could have started it all the way back in September after WCS Montreal or October after GSL Super Tournament 2. Sure, you'd have lost out on WCS Global Finals players, but you can still see some of the issues without the top of the top players. (see Homestory Cup for an example)
Yes, after GSLST2 ( maybe i t's too early but ye one week after ) is the best idea, so non top 8 players can.
October was an useless month where Blizzard could have accomplished many more things for this patch.
Being live just 1.5 month before GSL qualifiers without real test isnt wise imo.
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On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job
And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman. No disrespect Major, you're a better player then I could ever hope to become but let's face it, your comment is dumb and aggressive, this balance team is leagues better then David Kim, regardless if you are unhappy about the current position that Terran is in, I didn't exactly see you winning any premier tournaments when Terran was in a good spot balance wise or anything.
This patch is fantastic, Stalkers shouldn't have been nerfed because they are pointing Protoss in the right direction, powerful and expensive low tier units that benefit from micro, making them weaker wasn't the right thing to do.
The Disruptor seems like the Swarm Host in a different race, a unit that is too complex to gracefully balance and teeters on being overpowered or underpowered, they should just put the Reaver in while the Protoss metagame is still malleable and be done with it.
Zerg probably is a bit too strong vs. Protoss right now but it teeters on a razors edge, Protoss either falls apart to early game aggression, played way too passive and get's out expanded too much to recover, or gets their invincible army and the Zerg looks helpeless, ZvP has some weird dynamics going on at the moment.
Perhaps Hydralisks are too strong vs ground units and could be changed to be more fragile but more potent against air? Say, revert their health back but give them + 1 range vs air units? They just get obliterated so hard by Phoenix/Oracle (I know this has been slightly nerfed), Carriers, even Void Rays in critical mass burn them down but Protoss ground units need to engage Hydralisk armies extremely carefully or they get wrecked, perhaps that dynamic could be tweaked and improved?
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It doesn't get better. Too much suspense in the air. They keep players/community stress. I don't want "whining" or "wishing" about balance, but it doesn't get better. We must pay our attention only to the state of progamers and listen to them carefully. Each.
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On December 15 2017 10:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman. No disrespect Major, you're a better player then I could ever hope to become but let's face it, your comment is dumb and aggressive, this balance team is leagues better then David Kim, regardless if you are unhappy about the current position that Terran is in, I didn't exactly see you winning any premier tournaments when Terran was in a good spot balance wise or anything.
Well, Terran bio is nearly extinct, and the only way to win TvP is tricks (burn a lot of probes early/2 base all-ins, etc.). Tricks only works for a time, and they don't even work that great atm.
The design change (removal of overcharge) was good, design-wise, but bio is dead and they talk about the... raven and a cosmetic change to mine build time. Seriously.
Bringing back the old marauder is the first step of good will to show they are not retarded and don't hate bio players. But that will probably not prove enough. Bio openings are just too bad (compared to other races/mech), without killing probes or drones (winch you souldn't with the bad actual harass opportunities) you begin the game behind with worse units, upgrades, and eco.
I understand Protosses getting bored of changing their core units over and over (and re-learning to kite), but the actual stalkers upgrades seems like a real issue. 2/2 is way too strong on stalkers. Will see how it plays out with the new chrono...
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On December 15 2017 10:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman. No disrespect Major, you're a better player then I could ever hope to become but let's face it, your comment is dumb and aggressive, this balance team is leagues better then David Kim, regardless if you are unhappy about the current position that Terran is in, I didn't exactly see you winning any premier tournaments when Terran was in a good spot balance wise or anything. This patch is fantastic, Stalkers shouldn't have been nerfed because they are pointing Protoss in the right direction, powerful and expensive low tier units that benefit from micro, making them weaker wasn't the right thing to do. The Disruptor seems like the Swarm Host in a different race, a unit that is too complex to gracefully balance and teeters on being overpowered or underpowered, they should just put the Reaver in while the Protoss metagame is still malleable and be done with it. Zerg probably is a bit too strong vs. Protoss right now but it teeters on a razors edge, Protoss either falls apart to early game aggression, played way too passive and get's out expanded too much to recover, or gets their invincible army and the Zerg looks helpeless, ZvP has some weird dynamics going on at the moment. Perhaps Hydralisks are too strong vs ground units and could be changed to be more fragile but more potent against air? Say, revert their health back but give them + 1 range vs air units? They just get obliterated so hard by Phoenix/Oracle (I know this has been slightly nerfed), Carriers, even Void Rays in critical mass burn them down but Protoss ground units need to engage Hydralisk armies extremely carefully or they get wrecked, perhaps that dynamic could be tweaked and improved?
so u relize they buffed stalker collosus disruptor chnro boost gave em recall all on 1 patch and they gave terran. nerf on ghost nerf on mine a servos upgrade and a worse raven. and they expect for TvP to be balanced exacltly why?.
why if you make all protoss army stronger and terran army kept the same. why would the match up remain balanced?.
also when exactly was terran good?. terran was good around iem katowice thats been almost a year brother so idk what u saying here.
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On December 15 2017 10:49 Major wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 10:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman. No disrespect Major, you're a better player then I could ever hope to become but let's face it, your comment is dumb and aggressive, this balance team is leagues better then David Kim, regardless if you are unhappy about the current position that Terran is in, I didn't exactly see you winning any premier tournaments when Terran was in a good spot balance wise or anything. This patch is fantastic, Stalkers shouldn't have been nerfed because they are pointing Protoss in the right direction, powerful and expensive low tier units that benefit from micro, making them weaker wasn't the right thing to do. The Disruptor seems like the Swarm Host in a different race, a unit that is too complex to gracefully balance and teeters on being overpowered or underpowered, they should just put the Reaver in while the Protoss metagame is still malleable and be done with it. Zerg probably is a bit too strong vs. Protoss right now but it teeters on a razors edge, Protoss either falls apart to early game aggression, played way too passive and get's out expanded too much to recover, or gets their invincible army and the Zerg looks helpeless, ZvP has some weird dynamics going on at the moment. Perhaps Hydralisks are too strong vs ground units and could be changed to be more fragile but more potent against air? Say, revert their health back but give them + 1 range vs air units? They just get obliterated so hard by Phoenix/Oracle (I know this has been slightly nerfed), Carriers, even Void Rays in critical mass burn them down but Protoss ground units need to engage Hydralisk armies extremely carefully or they get wrecked, perhaps that dynamic could be tweaked and improved? why if you make all protoss army stronger and terran army kept the same. why would the match up remain balanced?.
The matchup wasn't balanced, it was Terran favored since April 2017: http://aligulac.com/misc/balance/
And the matchup was 50/50 when they removed Khaydarin Amulet in WOL and gave Protoss no corresponding buffs. This is how Blizzard balances.
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On December 15 2017 10:49 Major wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 10:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman. No disrespect Major, you're a better player then I could ever hope to become but let's face it, your comment is dumb and aggressive, this balance team is leagues better then David Kim, regardless if you are unhappy about the current position that Terran is in, I didn't exactly see you winning any premier tournaments when Terran was in a good spot balance wise or anything. This patch is fantastic, Stalkers shouldn't have been nerfed because they are pointing Protoss in the right direction, powerful and expensive low tier units that benefit from micro, making them weaker wasn't the right thing to do. The Disruptor seems like the Swarm Host in a different race, a unit that is too complex to gracefully balance and teeters on being overpowered or underpowered, they should just put the Reaver in while the Protoss metagame is still malleable and be done with it. Zerg probably is a bit too strong vs. Protoss right now but it teeters on a razors edge, Protoss either falls apart to early game aggression, played way too passive and get's out expanded too much to recover, or gets their invincible army and the Zerg looks helpeless, ZvP has some weird dynamics going on at the moment. Perhaps Hydralisks are too strong vs ground units and could be changed to be more fragile but more potent against air? Say, revert their health back but give them + 1 range vs air units? They just get obliterated so hard by Phoenix/Oracle (I know this has been slightly nerfed), Carriers, even Void Rays in critical mass burn them down but Protoss ground units need to engage Hydralisk armies extremely carefully or they get wrecked, perhaps that dynamic could be tweaked and improved? so u relize they buffed stalker collosus disruptor chnro boost gave em recall all on 1 patch and they gave terran. nerf on ghost nerf on mine a servos upgrade and a worse raven. and they expect for TvP to be balanced exacltly why?. why if you make all protoss army stronger and terran army kept the same. why would the match up remain balanced?. also when exactly was terran good?. terran was good around iem katowice thats been almost a year brother so idk what u saying here.
So, this balance team has clearly seen that Protoss is favoured and are nerfing chrono and disruptors in order to see where we are after that, and based on their responses they are clearly actually listening to community feedback. And you have the audacity to whine and tell them to step down? Grow up dude.
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On December 15 2017 13:18 Myrddraal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 10:49 Major wrote:On December 15 2017 10:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman. No disrespect Major, you're a better player then I could ever hope to become but let's face it, your comment is dumb and aggressive, this balance team is leagues better then David Kim, regardless if you are unhappy about the current position that Terran is in, I didn't exactly see you winning any premier tournaments when Terran was in a good spot balance wise or anything. This patch is fantastic, Stalkers shouldn't have been nerfed because they are pointing Protoss in the right direction, powerful and expensive low tier units that benefit from micro, making them weaker wasn't the right thing to do. The Disruptor seems like the Swarm Host in a different race, a unit that is too complex to gracefully balance and teeters on being overpowered or underpowered, they should just put the Reaver in while the Protoss metagame is still malleable and be done with it. Zerg probably is a bit too strong vs. Protoss right now but it teeters on a razors edge, Protoss either falls apart to early game aggression, played way too passive and get's out expanded too much to recover, or gets their invincible army and the Zerg looks helpeless, ZvP has some weird dynamics going on at the moment. Perhaps Hydralisks are too strong vs ground units and could be changed to be more fragile but more potent against air? Say, revert their health back but give them + 1 range vs air units? They just get obliterated so hard by Phoenix/Oracle (I know this has been slightly nerfed), Carriers, even Void Rays in critical mass burn them down but Protoss ground units need to engage Hydralisk armies extremely carefully or they get wrecked, perhaps that dynamic could be tweaked and improved? so u relize they buffed stalker collosus disruptor chnro boost gave em recall all on 1 patch and they gave terran. nerf on ghost nerf on mine a servos upgrade and a worse raven. and they expect for TvP to be balanced exacltly why?. why if you make all protoss army stronger and terran army kept the same. why would the match up remain balanced?. also when exactly was terran good?. terran was good around iem katowice thats been almost a year brother so idk what u saying here. So, this balance team has clearly seen that Protoss is favoured and are nerfing chrono and disruptors in order to see where we are after that, and based on their responses they are clearly actually listening to community feedback. And you have the audacity to whine and tell them to step down? Grow up dude.
you are enlitlted to your opinion just like i am. they are not listening to the community. unlike you this is my job. i play all day watch all tournaments talk to most pros. and when all terran and protoss agree that stalker is too strong and should be nerfed or buff something that is relevant from terran side. and they go ahead and undo the main change because they were listening the community according to you. than yes something is clearly wrong.
when is last time you say a protoss say really they didnt nerf stalker? that was the main nerf others buffs / nerfs are not that meaninfull. or last time u said even after the stlaker patch was gonna go trough. yea i think pvt is imba and it will probably still be protoss favored after the nerf thats even if stalker nerf went trough. why? because they over compensated for removal of 1 unit that wasnt that vital in the matchup already last patch. so yes its a terrible patch and again its my opinion you can have yours.
but i like to think my opinion is alot more educated than you.
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On December 15 2017 11:15 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 10:49 Major wrote:On December 15 2017 10:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman. No disrespect Major, you're a better player then I could ever hope to become but let's face it, your comment is dumb and aggressive, this balance team is leagues better then David Kim, regardless if you are unhappy about the current position that Terran is in, I didn't exactly see you winning any premier tournaments when Terran was in a good spot balance wise or anything. This patch is fantastic, Stalkers shouldn't have been nerfed because they are pointing Protoss in the right direction, powerful and expensive low tier units that benefit from micro, making them weaker wasn't the right thing to do. The Disruptor seems like the Swarm Host in a different race, a unit that is too complex to gracefully balance and teeters on being overpowered or underpowered, they should just put the Reaver in while the Protoss metagame is still malleable and be done with it. Zerg probably is a bit too strong vs. Protoss right now but it teeters on a razors edge, Protoss either falls apart to early game aggression, played way too passive and get's out expanded too much to recover, or gets their invincible army and the Zerg looks helpeless, ZvP has some weird dynamics going on at the moment. Perhaps Hydralisks are too strong vs ground units and could be changed to be more fragile but more potent against air? Say, revert their health back but give them + 1 range vs air units? They just get obliterated so hard by Phoenix/Oracle (I know this has been slightly nerfed), Carriers, even Void Rays in critical mass burn them down but Protoss ground units need to engage Hydralisk armies extremely carefully or they get wrecked, perhaps that dynamic could be tweaked and improved? why if you make all protoss army stronger and terran army kept the same. why would the match up remain balanced?. The matchup wasn't balanced, it was Terran favored since April 2017: http://aligulac.com/misc/balance/And the matchup was 50/50 when they removed Khaydarin Amulet in WOL and gave Protoss no corresponding buffs. This is how Blizzard balances.
i took my time to get you some real stats no one takes aligulac seriously =there is matches like ryung vs nice. those are tounrmanets that matter and im tired of people beliving in some fake stats on aligulac. all these are 3 season of gsl and 2 season of ssl so can you please tell me how was terran overpowered when it was only leading on GSL season 2? lol.
GSL season 1 pvt 30 24 55.6% season 2 21 23 47.7% season 3 49 25 24 51.0% SSL season 28 18 10 64.3% ssl season 2 28 18 10 64.3%
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On December 15 2017 13:27 Major wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 13:18 Myrddraal wrote:On December 15 2017 10:49 Major wrote:On December 15 2017 10:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman. No disrespect Major, you're a better player then I could ever hope to become but let's face it, your comment is dumb and aggressive, this balance team is leagues better then David Kim, regardless if you are unhappy about the current position that Terran is in, I didn't exactly see you winning any premier tournaments when Terran was in a good spot balance wise or anything. This patch is fantastic, Stalkers shouldn't have been nerfed because they are pointing Protoss in the right direction, powerful and expensive low tier units that benefit from micro, making them weaker wasn't the right thing to do. The Disruptor seems like the Swarm Host in a different race, a unit that is too complex to gracefully balance and teeters on being overpowered or underpowered, they should just put the Reaver in while the Protoss metagame is still malleable and be done with it. Zerg probably is a bit too strong vs. Protoss right now but it teeters on a razors edge, Protoss either falls apart to early game aggression, played way too passive and get's out expanded too much to recover, or gets their invincible army and the Zerg looks helpeless, ZvP has some weird dynamics going on at the moment. Perhaps Hydralisks are too strong vs ground units and could be changed to be more fragile but more potent against air? Say, revert their health back but give them + 1 range vs air units? They just get obliterated so hard by Phoenix/Oracle (I know this has been slightly nerfed), Carriers, even Void Rays in critical mass burn them down but Protoss ground units need to engage Hydralisk armies extremely carefully or they get wrecked, perhaps that dynamic could be tweaked and improved? so u relize they buffed stalker collosus disruptor chnro boost gave em recall all on 1 patch and they gave terran. nerf on ghost nerf on mine a servos upgrade and a worse raven. and they expect for TvP to be balanced exacltly why?. why if you make all protoss army stronger and terran army kept the same. why would the match up remain balanced?. also when exactly was terran good?. terran was good around iem katowice thats been almost a year brother so idk what u saying here. So, this balance team has clearly seen that Protoss is favoured and are nerfing chrono and disruptors in order to see where we are after that, and based on their responses they are clearly actually listening to community feedback. And you have the audacity to whine and tell them to step down? Grow up dude. you are enlitlted to your opinion just like i am. they are not listening to the community. unlike you this is my job. i play all day watch all tournaments talk to most pros. and when all terran and protoss agree that stalker is too strong and should be nerfed or buff something that is relevant from terran side. and they go ahead and undo the main change because they were listening the community according to you. than yes something is clearly wrong. when is last time you say a protoss say really they didnt nerf stalker? that was the main nerf others buffs / nerfs are not that meaninfull. or last time u said even after the stlaker patch was gonna go trough. yea i think pvt is imba and it will probably still be protoss favored after the nerf thats even if stalker nerf went trough. why? because they over compensated for removal of 1 unit that wasnt that vital in the matchup already last patch. so yes its a terrible patch and again its my opinion you can have yours. but i like to think my opinion is alot more educated than you.
So which Top 10 Korean Protoss agree with you ?
Thanks
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On December 15 2017 13:34 Parcelleus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 13:27 Major wrote:On December 15 2017 13:18 Myrddraal wrote:On December 15 2017 10:49 Major wrote:On December 15 2017 10:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman. No disrespect Major, you're a better player then I could ever hope to become but let's face it, your comment is dumb and aggressive, this balance team is leagues better then David Kim, regardless if you are unhappy about the current position that Terran is in, I didn't exactly see you winning any premier tournaments when Terran was in a good spot balance wise or anything. This patch is fantastic, Stalkers shouldn't have been nerfed because they are pointing Protoss in the right direction, powerful and expensive low tier units that benefit from micro, making them weaker wasn't the right thing to do. The Disruptor seems like the Swarm Host in a different race, a unit that is too complex to gracefully balance and teeters on being overpowered or underpowered, they should just put the Reaver in while the Protoss metagame is still malleable and be done with it. Zerg probably is a bit too strong vs. Protoss right now but it teeters on a razors edge, Protoss either falls apart to early game aggression, played way too passive and get's out expanded too much to recover, or gets their invincible army and the Zerg looks helpeless, ZvP has some weird dynamics going on at the moment. Perhaps Hydralisks are too strong vs ground units and could be changed to be more fragile but more potent against air? Say, revert their health back but give them + 1 range vs air units? They just get obliterated so hard by Phoenix/Oracle (I know this has been slightly nerfed), Carriers, even Void Rays in critical mass burn them down but Protoss ground units need to engage Hydralisk armies extremely carefully or they get wrecked, perhaps that dynamic could be tweaked and improved? so u relize they buffed stalker collosus disruptor chnro boost gave em recall all on 1 patch and they gave terran. nerf on ghost nerf on mine a servos upgrade and a worse raven. and they expect for TvP to be balanced exacltly why?. why if you make all protoss army stronger and terran army kept the same. why would the match up remain balanced?. also when exactly was terran good?. terran was good around iem katowice thats been almost a year brother so idk what u saying here. So, this balance team has clearly seen that Protoss is favoured and are nerfing chrono and disruptors in order to see where we are after that, and based on their responses they are clearly actually listening to community feedback. And you have the audacity to whine and tell them to step down? Grow up dude. you are enlitlted to your opinion just like i am. they are not listening to the community. unlike you this is my job. i play all day watch all tournaments talk to most pros. and when all terran and protoss agree that stalker is too strong and should be nerfed or buff something that is relevant from terran side. and they go ahead and undo the main change because they were listening the community according to you. than yes something is clearly wrong. when is last time you say a protoss say really they didnt nerf stalker? that was the main nerf others buffs / nerfs are not that meaninfull. or last time u said even after the stlaker patch was gonna go trough. yea i think pvt is imba and it will probably still be protoss favored after the nerf thats even if stalker nerf went trough. why? because they over compensated for removal of 1 unit that wasnt that vital in the matchup already last patch. so yes its a terrible patch and again its my opinion you can have yours. but i like to think my opinion is alot more educated than you. So which Top 10 Korean Protoss agree with you ? Thanks
hero stats dear classic hurricane neeb do i need to mention all ? they all say p > t
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On December 15 2017 13:36 Major wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 13:34 Parcelleus wrote:On December 15 2017 13:27 Major wrote:On December 15 2017 13:18 Myrddraal wrote:On December 15 2017 10:49 Major wrote:On December 15 2017 10:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman. No disrespect Major, you're a better player then I could ever hope to become but let's face it, your comment is dumb and aggressive, this balance team is leagues better then David Kim, regardless if you are unhappy about the current position that Terran is in, I didn't exactly see you winning any premier tournaments when Terran was in a good spot balance wise or anything. This patch is fantastic, Stalkers shouldn't have been nerfed because they are pointing Protoss in the right direction, powerful and expensive low tier units that benefit from micro, making them weaker wasn't the right thing to do. The Disruptor seems like the Swarm Host in a different race, a unit that is too complex to gracefully balance and teeters on being overpowered or underpowered, they should just put the Reaver in while the Protoss metagame is still malleable and be done with it. Zerg probably is a bit too strong vs. Protoss right now but it teeters on a razors edge, Protoss either falls apart to early game aggression, played way too passive and get's out expanded too much to recover, or gets their invincible army and the Zerg looks helpeless, ZvP has some weird dynamics going on at the moment. Perhaps Hydralisks are too strong vs ground units and could be changed to be more fragile but more potent against air? Say, revert their health back but give them + 1 range vs air units? They just get obliterated so hard by Phoenix/Oracle (I know this has been slightly nerfed), Carriers, even Void Rays in critical mass burn them down but Protoss ground units need to engage Hydralisk armies extremely carefully or they get wrecked, perhaps that dynamic could be tweaked and improved? so u relize they buffed stalker collosus disruptor chnro boost gave em recall all on 1 patch and they gave terran. nerf on ghost nerf on mine a servos upgrade and a worse raven. and they expect for TvP to be balanced exacltly why?. why if you make all protoss army stronger and terran army kept the same. why would the match up remain balanced?. also when exactly was terran good?. terran was good around iem katowice thats been almost a year brother so idk what u saying here. So, this balance team has clearly seen that Protoss is favoured and are nerfing chrono and disruptors in order to see where we are after that, and based on their responses they are clearly actually listening to community feedback. And you have the audacity to whine and tell them to step down? Grow up dude. you are enlitlted to your opinion just like i am. they are not listening to the community. unlike you this is my job. i play all day watch all tournaments talk to most pros. and when all terran and protoss agree that stalker is too strong and should be nerfed or buff something that is relevant from terran side. and they go ahead and undo the main change because they were listening the community according to you. than yes something is clearly wrong. when is last time you say a protoss say really they didnt nerf stalker? that was the main nerf others buffs / nerfs are not that meaninfull. or last time u said even after the stlaker patch was gonna go trough. yea i think pvt is imba and it will probably still be protoss favored after the nerf thats even if stalker nerf went trough. why? because they over compensated for removal of 1 unit that wasnt that vital in the matchup already last patch. so yes its a terrible patch and again its my opinion you can have yours. but i like to think my opinion is alot more educated than you. So which Top 10 Korean Protoss agree with you ? Thanks hero stats dear classic hurricane neeb do i need to mention all ? they all say p > t
Interesting.
P > T is a pretty vague. What specific changes do top 10 korean protoss agree with you ?
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I guess it depends if blizzard want to balance for pro level or for average players-
At pro level stalker is clearly too good in pvt but i guess all the feedback from non pros say they like it that way
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On December 15 2017 13:42 Parcelleus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2017 13:36 Major wrote:On December 15 2017 13:34 Parcelleus wrote:On December 15 2017 13:27 Major wrote:On December 15 2017 13:18 Myrddraal wrote:On December 15 2017 10:49 Major wrote:On December 15 2017 10:02 Beelzebub1 wrote:On December 15 2017 06:45 Major wrote:
who ever runs the balance needs to step down already. so clueless about this game. so nothing changes but make oracle build faster and again useless raven abilitys good job And here we see the, "High level players opinions on balance is good but they are biased and their opinions aren't gospel." in action ladies and gentleman. No disrespect Major, you're a better player then I could ever hope to become but let's face it, your comment is dumb and aggressive, this balance team is leagues better then David Kim, regardless if you are unhappy about the current position that Terran is in, I didn't exactly see you winning any premier tournaments when Terran was in a good spot balance wise or anything. This patch is fantastic, Stalkers shouldn't have been nerfed because they are pointing Protoss in the right direction, powerful and expensive low tier units that benefit from micro, making them weaker wasn't the right thing to do. The Disruptor seems like the Swarm Host in a different race, a unit that is too complex to gracefully balance and teeters on being overpowered or underpowered, they should just put the Reaver in while the Protoss metagame is still malleable and be done with it. Zerg probably is a bit too strong vs. Protoss right now but it teeters on a razors edge, Protoss either falls apart to early game aggression, played way too passive and get's out expanded too much to recover, or gets their invincible army and the Zerg looks helpeless, ZvP has some weird dynamics going on at the moment. Perhaps Hydralisks are too strong vs ground units and could be changed to be more fragile but more potent against air? Say, revert their health back but give them + 1 range vs air units? They just get obliterated so hard by Phoenix/Oracle (I know this has been slightly nerfed), Carriers, even Void Rays in critical mass burn them down but Protoss ground units need to engage Hydralisk armies extremely carefully or they get wrecked, perhaps that dynamic could be tweaked and improved? so u relize they buffed stalker collosus disruptor chnro boost gave em recall all on 1 patch and they gave terran. nerf on ghost nerf on mine a servos upgrade and a worse raven. and they expect for TvP to be balanced exacltly why?. why if you make all protoss army stronger and terran army kept the same. why would the match up remain balanced?. also when exactly was terran good?. terran was good around iem katowice thats been almost a year brother so idk what u saying here. So, this balance team has clearly seen that Protoss is favoured and are nerfing chrono and disruptors in order to see where we are after that, and based on their responses they are clearly actually listening to community feedback. And you have the audacity to whine and tell them to step down? Grow up dude. you are enlitlted to your opinion just like i am. they are not listening to the community. unlike you this is my job. i play all day watch all tournaments talk to most pros. and when all terran and protoss agree that stalker is too strong and should be nerfed or buff something that is relevant from terran side. and they go ahead and undo the main change because they were listening the community according to you. than yes something is clearly wrong. when is last time you say a protoss say really they didnt nerf stalker? that was the main nerf others buffs / nerfs are not that meaninfull. or last time u said even after the stlaker patch was gonna go trough. yea i think pvt is imba and it will probably still be protoss favored after the nerf thats even if stalker nerf went trough. why? because they over compensated for removal of 1 unit that wasnt that vital in the matchup already last patch. so yes its a terrible patch and again its my opinion you can have yours. but i like to think my opinion is alot more educated than you. So which Top 10 Korean Protoss agree with you ? Thanks hero stats dear classic hurricane neeb do i need to mention all ? they all say p > t Interesting. P > T is a pretty vague. What specific changes do top 10 korean protoss agree with you ?
probably last comment i will make in this thread.
Stalker is just simply put too strong, they buffed alot of protoss core unit (collosus and stalker) and kept terran army exactly the same but a nerf to ghost and mine.
they removed mothership core. and while its a big change its not that big. if you pay close attention to progames before patch vs Terran they would make mothership core if they knew A) all in was coming B) after taking a 3rd base because there was very little terran could do cause oracle opening was so strong. so in this patch for the lack of mothership core. which was already a pretty lated build unit vs Terran. they gave it a stornger stalker, a pretty good defence in the battery shield a stronger collosus. and completly imbalanced recall that needs at very least be more mana 50 mana is a joke for what it does. and a Stronger chrno boost. all this buffs for the removal of 1 unit. does it really merit it? of course not
now lets see what they changed for terran
Raven - Healing drone useless vs p, Misile useless vs P , Matrix can be good vs P but not really worth making it to disable an unit for some seconds. its expensive and delays alot of your tech atleast in old patch you could use turrets to help your push when they played robo or pdd to stop stalkers shots
Mine - Nerfed
Ghost - Nerfed. starting with cloak all it does it make some cheeses more strong that all are stopped by making a shield battery in your mineral line anyway. when you make ghost in tvp you need the energy to do the timing rush. ghost are not like templar u dont make ghost to just sit there and let em grow mana like templars. because they are not good defensive units. so making em start with less mana and adding the upgrade again its a bad change and not a very well tought one
New mech upgrades - they ok but this dosent adress any balance at all just a niche
so as you can clearly see they mostly nerf terran and buff protoss for the compesation of the removal of 1 unit. and i dont blame them i thought the removal of msc would be bigger. but if you really think about it. protoss was already making it very late because its not really needed to defend anything terran trowed at them during last patch. and same holds in this one. but instead they buffed like 5 things that are core for protoss.
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Very happy to hear the Stalker will have a chance, so to speak. That was a big change with the mothership core being gone.
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Curious so what do the pros think of current PvZ balance? If they agree it is heavily zerg favored, then taking a holistic view wouldn't it make sense to buff T? Multiple nerfs to PvZ would only further the PvZ imbalance, possibly worse than PvT is now.
I'm not going to argue pros opinions on balance, all I can say is that the Stalker is a lot more fun to use and feels like it actually has a defined role now, which is really good in terms of game design. Previously it felt like an expensive unit that hit like a wet noodle and the only time you wanted to build it late game is when you needed emergency AA.
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On December 15 2017 14:08 Skyro wrote:
Curious so what do the pros think of current PvZ balance? If they agree it is heavily zerg favored, then taking a holistic view wouldn't it make sense to buff T? Multiple nerfs to PvZ would only further the PvZ imbalance, possibly worse than PvT is now.
I'm not going to argue pros opinions on balance, all I can say is that the Stalker is a lot more fun to use and feels like it actually has a defined role now, which is really good in terms of game design. Previously it felt like an expensive unit that hit like a wet noodle and the only time you wanted to build it late game is when you needed emergency AA.
protoss got buffed in 4.0 why would it be heavily zerg favoured when it wasnt before?
faster overlords dont make up for collossus and stalker buffs
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