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On December 18 2015 08:14 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:08 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 08:04 sharkie wrote:On December 18 2015 08:03 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 07:58 Nerchio wrote:
I think it looks pretty good, makes me wanna practice but I am a little worried for EU region when there is Latin america etc. with lack of good players Good for you. You will have more money with less viewers. Great business for players, bad business for sponsors. But maybe, at the end of the year, Blizzard realizes how much money does this system cost them. pretty sure WCS Global was pulling in way way more viewers than any DH did and maybe even more than some IEMs Nonsense. Nope, DH viewers were piss poor. No one really cared for DHs, they were boring
Well, you are right. DH was somehow a second level tournament ... million of foreigners, just a few, usually not the best Koreans. What is important for me was IEM, as it had great players, both foreigners and Koreans.
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8748 Posts
On December 18 2015 08:09 ClanWars wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:07 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:03 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 07:58 Nerchio wrote:
I think it looks pretty good, makes me wanna practice but I am a little worried for EU region when there is Latin america etc. with lack of good players Good for you. You will have more money with less viewers. Great business for players, bad business for sponsors. But maybe, at the end of the year, Blizzard realizes how much money does this system cost them. Let's see what it looks like, for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners. Especially when a system for foreigners will motivate them to practice enough to put up a fight against koreas in global finals. Then the hype will be more than anything you've seen. Or the whole thing will implode. One way or the other its a large risk. It could work out, or it could bomb horribly. I guess we'll see. " for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners" that's not what the data from my tournaments said. The all Korean SHOUTcraft events beat the American SHOUTcraft events in viewership.
I think the assumption is that many viewers who were interested in seeing a non-Korean scene develop stopped watching years ago or never started watching. The goal is to get their attention. Your data may show what the preferences of the current community are, not what kind of potential there is for a non-Korean scene to establish itself for years to come. Basically, I think they look at League of Legends and major sports and think "we can be more like them while continuing to satisfy the hardcore fans."
There's no sport that tries to provide as many matches between top players/teams as some SC2 fans are demanding of Blizzard. We get a ton of high skill matches. There's no way they're going to stay one dimensional and just create more and more of them. You can learn to get by with the amount that there will be in 2016, which is a lot, and viewers who value other things will have some of their desires addressed.
Besides, the hope is that non-Korean players achieve even greater skill. It is pretty uncivil to just act like it's obvious that the world outside of Korea will never do a better job of producing competitive SC2 players.
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On December 18 2015 08:22 Diabolique wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:14 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:10 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 08:07 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:03 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 07:58 Nerchio wrote:
I think it looks pretty good, makes me wanna practice but I am a little worried for EU region when there is Latin america etc. with lack of good players Good for you. You will have more money with less viewers. Great business for players, bad business for sponsors. But maybe, at the end of the year, Blizzard realizes how much money does this system cost them. Let's see what it looks like, for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners. Especially when a system for foreigners will motivate them to practice enough to put up a fight against koreas in global finals. Then the hype will be more than anything you've seen. No. We all want to see foreigners. But foreigners beating Koreans. Like Snute both GSL and SSL champions at IEM. Or ShowTime almost beating PartinG at DH. It might be interesting for someone to watch the "League of losers", but it is like to watch a Wimbledon, which is allowed only for players ranked lower than TOP20. How do you want to see foreigners beat Koreans when they get matched with the best players in the world from the perfect practice environment in the first round of every tournament? Don't tell me to go to Korea to practice there because I don't see Kespa welcoming me with open arms and saying "Come Nerchio, we need you to practice with Innovation and Life!!" But I do not see any possibility for you to get to the Korean level in playing a closed Welfare Circuit with other Europeans. I mentioned the examples: Snute, ShowTime ... they were so close. BlizzCon could sponsor you if you need more money to have the proper motivation ... I do not think, having the locked Welfare Circuit will improve your play. Remember Lilbow's explanation, why he did not practice. "Because he did not have practice partners." TLO answered to him: "We offered to you to practice with you." Lilbow answered: "But you, all European Zergs, are weak. I have beaten you all. Why would I practice with you? What would it bring to me?" Having a locked Losers league will not improve the player's skills. The idea of Total Biscuit, forcing Koreans to play on western Ladders might help more.
You do not see the possibility but I do and who knows more about becoming good in Starcraft2 :/
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On December 18 2015 08:12 Nerchio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:09 ClanWars wrote:On December 18 2015 08:07 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:03 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 07:58 Nerchio wrote:
I think it looks pretty good, makes me wanna practice but I am a little worried for EU region when there is Latin america etc. with lack of good players Good for you. You will have more money with less viewers. Great business for players, bad business for sponsors. But maybe, at the end of the year, Blizzard realizes how much money does this system cost them. Let's see what it looks like, for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners. Especially when a system for foreigners will motivate them to practice enough to put up a fight against koreas in global finals. Then the hype will be more than anything you've seen. Or the whole thing will implode. One way or the other its a large risk. It could work out, or it could bomb horribly. I guess we'll see. " for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners" that's not what the data from my tournaments said. The all Korean SHOUTcraft events beat the American SHOUTcraft events in viewership. Making single tournaments is not going to bring the scene alive, it was already dead to begin with after being flooded with Koreans from perfect practice environment. I totally agree that Koreans play better and they deserve more but we need to give some room to breathe for foreigners too.
The scene died because of Koreans coming to foreign events? This just blows my mind ROTFL
Boxer, Flash, Nada, MVP, Jaedong, MarineKing, Life, Parting, MC, Nesstea, Leenock etc had much much more "star power" then the vast majority of US/EU players. The only non Koreans that got lots of atention were the ones that usually practiced in Korea and got good, Idra, Jinro, TLO, Huk, etc.
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On December 18 2015 08:25 NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:09 ClanWars wrote:On December 18 2015 08:07 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:03 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 07:58 Nerchio wrote:
I think it looks pretty good, makes me wanna practice but I am a little worried for EU region when there is Latin america etc. with lack of good players Good for you. You will have more money with less viewers. Great business for players, bad business for sponsors. But maybe, at the end of the year, Blizzard realizes how much money does this system cost them. Let's see what it looks like, for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners. Especially when a system for foreigners will motivate them to practice enough to put up a fight against koreas in global finals. Then the hype will be more than anything you've seen. Or the whole thing will implode. One way or the other its a large risk. It could work out, or it could bomb horribly. I guess we'll see. " for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners" that's not what the data from my tournaments said. The all Korean SHOUTcraft events beat the American SHOUTcraft events in viewership. I think the assumption is that many viewers who were interested in seeing a non-Korean scene develop stopped watching years ago or never started watching. The goal is to get their attention. Your data may show what the preferences of the current community are, not what kind of potential there is for a non-Korean scene to establish itself for years to come. Basically, I think they look at League of Legends and major sports and think "we can be more like them while continuing to satisfy the hardcore fans." There's no sport that tries to provide as many matches between top players/teams as some SC2 fans are demanding of Blizzard. We get a ton of high skill matches. There's no way they're going to stay one dimensional and just create more and more of them. You can learn to get by with the amount that there will be in 2016, which is a lot, and viewers who value other things will have some of their desires addressed. Besides, the hope is that non-Korean players achieve even greater skill. It is pretty uncivil to just act like it's obvious that the world outside of Korea will never do a better job of producing competitive SC2 players.
They won't. EVER. All the WCS Welfare Tournaments in the world and practice time won't change that
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Thank god for basetrade tv providing korean online tournaments. The level of play in those daily online tournaments dwarfs anything I have seen all day from homestory cup. Gonna be a sad year for sc2 but atleast I wont have to split my attention between csgo and sc2 when it comes to DH and IEM.
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On December 18 2015 08:27 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:12 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:09 ClanWars wrote:On December 18 2015 08:07 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:03 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 07:58 Nerchio wrote:
I think it looks pretty good, makes me wanna practice but I am a little worried for EU region when there is Latin america etc. with lack of good players Good for you. You will have more money with less viewers. Great business for players, bad business for sponsors. But maybe, at the end of the year, Blizzard realizes how much money does this system cost them. Let's see what it looks like, for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners. Especially when a system for foreigners will motivate them to practice enough to put up a fight against koreas in global finals. Then the hype will be more than anything you've seen. Or the whole thing will implode. One way or the other its a large risk. It could work out, or it could bomb horribly. I guess we'll see. " for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners" that's not what the data from my tournaments said. The all Korean SHOUTcraft events beat the American SHOUTcraft events in viewership. Making single tournaments is not going to bring the scene alive, it was already dead to begin with after being flooded with Koreans from perfect practice environment. I totally agree that Koreans play better and they deserve more but we need to give some room to breathe for foreigners too. The scene died because of Koreans coming to foreign events? This just blows my mind ROTFL Boxer, Flash, Nada, MVP, Jaedong, MarineKing, Life, Parting, MC, Nesstea, Leenock etc had much much more "star power" then the vast majority of US/EU players. The only non Koreans that got lots of atention were the ones that usually practiced in Korea and got good, Idra, Jinro, TLO, Huk, etc.
Hots being a terrible game didn't help either, these were the 2 things that got matched together. In WOL somehow we had players that could sometimes play on par or even beat the best koreans( Stephano/ Naniwa/ me/ Thorzain or whatever). Don't tell me about broodlord infestor.
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On December 18 2015 08:23 DinoMight wrote:
Seriously when you see the level of practice and dedication of some of these young Koreans who grew up idolizing flash/bisu etc. and then you tell me that Lilbow deserves a spot over them... I have no words.
I mean that's like saying ok, no more Brazilians can play in the Premier League. Because the infrastructure in their country for developing soccer talent is too good.
Do you realize how fucking stupid that is?
Premiere League just limited the number of non-EU players this year. This change is to give more homegrown talents a chance.
I'm completely fine with the WCS Circuit being more region locked to help the foreign scene. I just hate that we have 1 less GSL and SSL now and hope we get a lot of Global events.
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On December 18 2015 08:27 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:25 NonY wrote:On December 18 2015 08:09 ClanWars wrote:On December 18 2015 08:07 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:03 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 07:58 Nerchio wrote:
I think it looks pretty good, makes me wanna practice but I am a little worried for EU region when there is Latin america etc. with lack of good players Good for you. You will have more money with less viewers. Great business for players, bad business for sponsors. But maybe, at the end of the year, Blizzard realizes how much money does this system cost them. Let's see what it looks like, for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners. Especially when a system for foreigners will motivate them to practice enough to put up a fight against koreas in global finals. Then the hype will be more than anything you've seen. Or the whole thing will implode. One way or the other its a large risk. It could work out, or it could bomb horribly. I guess we'll see. " for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners" that's not what the data from my tournaments said. The all Korean SHOUTcraft events beat the American SHOUTcraft events in viewership. I think the assumption is that many viewers who were interested in seeing a non-Korean scene develop stopped watching years ago or never started watching. The goal is to get their attention. Your data may show what the preferences of the current community are, not what kind of potential there is for a non-Korean scene to establish itself for years to come. Basically, I think they look at League of Legends and major sports and think "we can be more like them while continuing to satisfy the hardcore fans." There's no sport that tries to provide as many matches between top players/teams as some SC2 fans are demanding of Blizzard. We get a ton of high skill matches. There's no way they're going to stay one dimensional and just create more and more of them. You can learn to get by with the amount that there will be in 2016, which is a lot, and viewers who value other things will have some of their desires addressed. Besides, the hope is that non-Korean players achieve even greater skill. It is pretty uncivil to just act like it's obvious that the world outside of Korea will never do a better job of producing competitive SC2 players. They won't. EVER. All the WCS Welfare Tournaments in the world and practice time won't change that
So you think koreans are genetically better at starcraft? -_- come on dude
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On December 18 2015 08:29 Nerchio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:27 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 08:12 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:09 ClanWars wrote:On December 18 2015 08:07 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:03 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 07:58 Nerchio wrote:
I think it looks pretty good, makes me wanna practice but I am a little worried for EU region when there is Latin america etc. with lack of good players Good for you. You will have more money with less viewers. Great business for players, bad business for sponsors. But maybe, at the end of the year, Blizzard realizes how much money does this system cost them. Let's see what it looks like, for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners. Especially when a system for foreigners will motivate them to practice enough to put up a fight against koreas in global finals. Then the hype will be more than anything you've seen. Or the whole thing will implode. One way or the other its a large risk. It could work out, or it could bomb horribly. I guess we'll see. " for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners" that's not what the data from my tournaments said. The all Korean SHOUTcraft events beat the American SHOUTcraft events in viewership. Making single tournaments is not going to bring the scene alive, it was already dead to begin with after being flooded with Koreans from perfect practice environment. I totally agree that Koreans play better and they deserve more but we need to give some room to breathe for foreigners too. The scene died because of Koreans coming to foreign events? This just blows my mind ROTFL Boxer, Flash, Nada, MVP, Jaedong, MarineKing, Life, Parting, MC, Nesstea, Leenock etc had much much more "star power" then the vast majority of US/EU players. The only non Koreans that got lots of atention were the ones that usually practiced in Korea and got good, Idra, Jinro, TLO, Huk, etc. Hots being a terrible game didn't help either, these were the 2 things that got matched together. In WOL somehow we had players that could sometimes player or even beat the best koreans( Stephano/ Naniwa/ me/ Thorzain or whatever). Don't tell me about broodlord infestor.
The last year of wol was awful BECAUSE of broodlord infestor. Dont compare yourself to naniwa or stephano ever again either, even thorzain.
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On December 18 2015 08:15 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:07 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:03 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 07:58 Nerchio wrote:
I think it looks pretty good, makes me wanna practice but I am a little worried for EU region when there is Latin america etc. with lack of good players Good for you. You will have more money with less viewers. Great business for players, bad business for sponsors. But maybe, at the end of the year, Blizzard realizes how much money does this system cost them. Let's see what it looks like, for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners. Especially when a system for foreigners will motivate them to practice enough to put up a fight against koreas in global finals. Then the hype will be more than anything you've seen. Is that a joke or you have some data? Please share if so.
Pretty much everyone i know in real life doesn´t care about korean leagues, but they watched WCS from time to time.
Teamliquid is just a representation of hardcore fans, most of guys willing to pay for GSL or stay up late at night and
totally not the casual viewer. Even though it seems like 99% on TL are negative about it, there is a big amount of people who will be happy with it. In the end, we will have to wait, but I personally believe it will be great.
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I hope this region lock will lead to some foreigners getting to the "star level"
Right now i don't particularly care for any foreign player, maybe this will change it. (if done well enough)
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On December 18 2015 08:25 NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:09 ClanWars wrote:On December 18 2015 08:07 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:03 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 07:58 Nerchio wrote:
I think it looks pretty good, makes me wanna practice but I am a little worried for EU region when there is Latin america etc. with lack of good players Good for you. You will have more money with less viewers. Great business for players, bad business for sponsors. But maybe, at the end of the year, Blizzard realizes how much money does this system cost them. Let's see what it looks like, for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners. Especially when a system for foreigners will motivate them to practice enough to put up a fight against koreas in global finals. Then the hype will be more than anything you've seen. Or the whole thing will implode. One way or the other its a large risk. It could work out, or it could bomb horribly. I guess we'll see. " for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners" that's not what the data from my tournaments said. The all Korean SHOUTcraft events beat the American SHOUTcraft events in viewership. I think the assumption is that many viewers who were interested in seeing a non-Korean scene develop stopped watching years ago or never started watching. The goal is to get their attention. Your data may show what the preferences of the current community are, not what kind of potential there is for a non-Korean scene to establish itself for years to come. Basically, I think they look at League of Legends and major sports and think "we can be more like them while continuing to satisfy the hardcore fans." There's no sport that tries to provide as many matches between top players/teams as some SC2 fans are demanding of Blizzard. We get a ton of high skill matches. There's no way they're going to stay one dimensional and just create more and more of them. You can learn to get by with the amount that there will be in 2016, which is a lot, and viewers who value other things will have some of their desires addressed. Besides, the hope is that non-Korean players achieve even greater skill. It is pretty uncivil to just act like it's obvious that the world outside of Korea will never do a better job of producing competitive SC2 players.
Yes this is probably the best way of thinking about the answer.
The bigguest issue we should really be considering when we talk about these structural issue is simply how we motivate more players to compete and watch. To some degree this comes with the fundamental notion that the game is inherently able to draw a large enough crowd of players and fans to support a worldwide competition.
The more pressing question however is how we can motivate both korean players and foreign players to compete and compete at the highest levels. At the moment the de-incentives from both sides are hard to ignore.
It's pretty immature and fatalistic thinking when trying to solve a problem to assume that one end is ultimately fixed (the relative possibility of foreign players earning any degree of success)
Ultimately though we have to consider that the abstract idea of "the health of the scene" is in some ways just as important as the individual lives and possiblities of the Korean players who give up a lot to become professional players.
At a more base level: the fundamental question is simply how can we make the game more appealling to watch and play, ultimately reaching the level of stability to maintain this sort of circuit.
Personally I don't think most of these issues will be solved by adjusting the circuit.
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On December 18 2015 08:23 DinoMight wrote:
Seriously when you see the level of practice and dedication of some of these young Koreans who grew up idolizing flash/bisu etc. and then you tell me that Lilbow deserves a spot over them... I have no words.
I mean that's like saying ok, no more Brazilians can play in the Premier League. Because the infrastructure in their country for developing soccer talent is too good.
Do you realize how fucking stupid that is?
except they are still playing in the premier league while not being allowed to play in the "lesser" leagues at the same time....
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On December 18 2015 08:29 Nerchio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:27 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 08:12 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:09 ClanWars wrote:On December 18 2015 08:07 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:03 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 07:58 Nerchio wrote:
I think it looks pretty good, makes me wanna practice but I am a little worried for EU region when there is Latin america etc. with lack of good players Good for you. You will have more money with less viewers. Great business for players, bad business for sponsors. But maybe, at the end of the year, Blizzard realizes how much money does this system cost them. Let's see what it looks like, for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners. Especially when a system for foreigners will motivate them to practice enough to put up a fight against koreas in global finals. Then the hype will be more than anything you've seen. Or the whole thing will implode. One way or the other its a large risk. It could work out, or it could bomb horribly. I guess we'll see. " for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners" that's not what the data from my tournaments said. The all Korean SHOUTcraft events beat the American SHOUTcraft events in viewership. Making single tournaments is not going to bring the scene alive, it was already dead to begin with after being flooded with Koreans from perfect practice environment. I totally agree that Koreans play better and they deserve more but we need to give some room to breathe for foreigners too. The scene died because of Koreans coming to foreign events? This just blows my mind ROTFL Boxer, Flash, Nada, MVP, Jaedong, MarineKing, Life, Parting, MC, Nesstea, Leenock etc had much much more "star power" then the vast majority of US/EU players. The only non Koreans that got lots of atention were the ones that usually practiced in Korea and got good, Idra, Jinro, TLO, Huk, etc. Hots being a terrible game didn't help either, these were the 2 things that got matched together. In WOL somehow we had players that could sometimes play on par or even beat the best koreans( Stephano/ Naniwa/ me/ Thorzain or whatever). Don't tell me about broodlord infestor.
I agree that Hots was bad, that's why i stopped watching at least. But it's still better to watch bad game + top players then bad game + mediocre players.
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On December 18 2015 08:31 HugoBallzak wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:29 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:27 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 08:12 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:09 ClanWars wrote:On December 18 2015 08:07 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:03 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 07:58 Nerchio wrote:
I think it looks pretty good, makes me wanna practice but I am a little worried for EU region when there is Latin america etc. with lack of good players Good for you. You will have more money with less viewers. Great business for players, bad business for sponsors. But maybe, at the end of the year, Blizzard realizes how much money does this system cost them. Let's see what it looks like, for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners. Especially when a system for foreigners will motivate them to practice enough to put up a fight against koreas in global finals. Then the hype will be more than anything you've seen. Or the whole thing will implode. One way or the other its a large risk. It could work out, or it could bomb horribly. I guess we'll see. " for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners" that's not what the data from my tournaments said. The all Korean SHOUTcraft events beat the American SHOUTcraft events in viewership. Making single tournaments is not going to bring the scene alive, it was already dead to begin with after being flooded with Koreans from perfect practice environment. I totally agree that Koreans play better and they deserve more but we need to give some room to breathe for foreigners too. The scene died because of Koreans coming to foreign events? This just blows my mind ROTFL Boxer, Flash, Nada, MVP, Jaedong, MarineKing, Life, Parting, MC, Nesstea, Leenock etc had much much more "star power" then the vast majority of US/EU players. The only non Koreans that got lots of atention were the ones that usually practiced in Korea and got good, Idra, Jinro, TLO, Huk, etc. Hots being a terrible game didn't help either, these were the 2 things that got matched together. In WOL somehow we had players that could sometimes player or even beat the best koreans( Stephano/ Naniwa/ me/ Thorzain or whatever). Don't tell me about broodlord infestor. The last year of wol was awful BECAUSE of broodlord infestor. Dont compare yourself to naniwa or stephano ever again either, even thorzain.
Thank you for this post, I will start to ignore your posts from now on.
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8748 Posts
On December 18 2015 08:27 showstealer1829 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:25 NonY wrote:On December 18 2015 08:09 ClanWars wrote:On December 18 2015 08:07 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:03 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 07:58 Nerchio wrote:
I think it looks pretty good, makes me wanna practice but I am a little worried for EU region when there is Latin america etc. with lack of good players Good for you. You will have more money with less viewers. Great business for players, bad business for sponsors. But maybe, at the end of the year, Blizzard realizes how much money does this system cost them. Let's see what it looks like, for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners. Especially when a system for foreigners will motivate them to practice enough to put up a fight against koreas in global finals. Then the hype will be more than anything you've seen. Or the whole thing will implode. One way or the other its a large risk. It could work out, or it could bomb horribly. I guess we'll see. " for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners" that's not what the data from my tournaments said. The all Korean SHOUTcraft events beat the American SHOUTcraft events in viewership. I think the assumption is that many viewers who were interested in seeing a non-Korean scene develop stopped watching years ago or never started watching. The goal is to get their attention. Your data may show what the preferences of the current community are, not what kind of potential there is for a non-Korean scene to establish itself for years to come. Basically, I think they look at League of Legends and major sports and think "we can be more like them while continuing to satisfy the hardcore fans." There's no sport that tries to provide as many matches between top players/teams as some SC2 fans are demanding of Blizzard. We get a ton of high skill matches. There's no way they're going to stay one dimensional and just create more and more of them. You can learn to get by with the amount that there will be in 2016, which is a lot, and viewers who value other things will have some of their desires addressed. Besides, the hope is that non-Korean players achieve even greater skill. It is pretty uncivil to just act like it's obvious that the world outside of Korea will never do a better job of producing competitive SC2 players. They won't. EVER. All the WCS Welfare Tournaments in the world and practice time won't change that
Eh whatever but I can say from personal experience that when I was the best I ever was in BW, and was steadily rising through the ranks of Korean players, I had to quit because I didn't have the opportunities that the current crop of SC2 talent has. If Blizzard announced this system for BW in 2009, I wouldn't have had to stop playing and who knows where I would have ended up. It seems clear to me that this system increases the chances of more non-Korean players reaching their potential because that would have been perfectly true for me in my time.
And Nerchio is here saying he feels more motivated and that he sees an opportunity. IDK what more you want to have some hope.
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On December 18 2015 08:25 Nerchio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:22 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 08:14 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:10 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 08:07 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:03 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 07:58 Nerchio wrote:
I think it looks pretty good, makes me wanna practice but I am a little worried for EU region when there is Latin america etc. with lack of good players Good for you. You will have more money with less viewers. Great business for players, bad business for sponsors. But maybe, at the end of the year, Blizzard realizes how much money does this system cost them. Let's see what it looks like, for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners. Especially when a system for foreigners will motivate them to practice enough to put up a fight against koreas in global finals. Then the hype will be more than anything you've seen. No. We all want to see foreigners. But foreigners beating Koreans. Like Snute both GSL and SSL champions at IEM. Or ShowTime almost beating PartinG at DH. It might be interesting for someone to watch the "League of losers", but it is like to watch a Wimbledon, which is allowed only for players ranked lower than TOP20. How do you want to see foreigners beat Koreans when they get matched with the best players in the world from the perfect practice environment in the first round of every tournament? Don't tell me to go to Korea to practice there because I don't see Kespa welcoming me with open arms and saying "Come Nerchio, we need you to practice with Innovation and Life!!" But I do not see any possibility for you to get to the Korean level in playing a closed Welfare Circuit with other Europeans. I mentioned the examples: Snute, ShowTime ... they were so close. BlizzCon could sponsor you if you need more money to have the proper motivation ... I do not think, having the locked Welfare Circuit will improve your play. Remember Lilbow's explanation, why he did not practice. "Because he did not have practice partners." TLO answered to him: "We offered to you to practice with you." Lilbow answered: "But you, all European Zergs, are weak. I have beaten you all. Why would I practice with you? What would it bring to me?" Having a locked Losers league will not improve the player's skills. The idea of Total Biscuit, forcing Koreans to play on western Ladders might help more. You do not see the possibility but I do and who knows more about becoming good in Starcraft2 :/
OK, I agree, you know more. As I said at the start. This is great for you. But not great for the current fans of SC2. So we will probably stop watching the welfare tournaments, but of course, it can happen that there will be a new wave of fans arising who will cheer for the best SC2 player from their country (like in my country, it would be probably someone on the WCS ranking 487) and not caring about the high level of the world's best.
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On December 18 2015 08:29 Nerchio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:27 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 08:12 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:09 ClanWars wrote:On December 18 2015 08:07 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:03 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 07:58 Nerchio wrote:
I think it looks pretty good, makes me wanna practice but I am a little worried for EU region when there is Latin america etc. with lack of good players Good for you. You will have more money with less viewers. Great business for players, bad business for sponsors. But maybe, at the end of the year, Blizzard realizes how much money does this system cost them. Let's see what it looks like, for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners. Especially when a system for foreigners will motivate them to practice enough to put up a fight against koreas in global finals. Then the hype will be more than anything you've seen. Or the whole thing will implode. One way or the other its a large risk. It could work out, or it could bomb horribly. I guess we'll see. " for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners" that's not what the data from my tournaments said. The all Korean SHOUTcraft events beat the American SHOUTcraft events in viewership. Making single tournaments is not going to bring the scene alive, it was already dead to begin with after being flooded with Koreans from perfect practice environment. I totally agree that Koreans play better and they deserve more but we need to give some room to breathe for foreigners too. The scene died because of Koreans coming to foreign events? This just blows my mind ROTFL Boxer, Flash, Nada, MVP, Jaedong, MarineKing, Life, Parting, MC, Nesstea, Leenock etc had much much more "star power" then the vast majority of US/EU players. The only non Koreans that got lots of atention were the ones that usually practiced in Korea and got good, Idra, Jinro, TLO, Huk, etc. Hots being a terrible game didn't help either, these were the 2 things that got matched together. In WOL somehow we had players that could sometimes play on par or even beat the best koreans( Stephano/ Naniwa/ me/ Thorzain or whatever). Don't tell me about broodlord infestor.
HotS is a bad game now? Seriously...?
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Only 2 GSL's and SSL's really, really sucks.
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EPT
