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On December 18 2015 08:49 Nerchio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:44 Musicus wrote:On December 18 2015 08:42 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:40 Musicus wrote:On December 18 2015 08:37 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:35 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 08:25 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:22 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 08:14 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:10 Diabolique wrote:
[quote]
No. We all want to see foreigners. But foreigners beating Koreans. Like Snute both GSL and SSL champions at IEM. Or ShowTime almost beating PartinG at DH. It might be interesting for someone to watch the "League of losers", but it is like to watch a Wimbledon, which is allowed only for players ranked lower than TOP20. How do you want to see foreigners beat Koreans when they get matched with the best players in the world from the perfect practice environment in the first round of every tournament? Don't tell me to go to Korea to practice there because I don't see Kespa welcoming me with open arms and saying "Come Nerchio, we need you to practice with Innovation and Life!!" But I do not see any possibility for you to get to the Korean level in playing a closed Welfare Circuit with other Europeans. I mentioned the examples: Snute, ShowTime ... they were so close. BlizzCon could sponsor you if you need more money to have the proper motivation ... I do not think, having the locked Welfare Circuit will improve your play. Remember Lilbow's explanation, why he did not practice. "Because he did not have practice partners." TLO answered to him: "We offered to you to practice with you." Lilbow answered: "But you, all European Zergs, are weak. I have beaten you all. Why would I practice with you? What would it bring to me?" Having a locked Losers league will not improve the player's skills. The idea of Total Biscuit, forcing Koreans to play on western Ladders might help more. You do not see the possibility but I do and who knows more about becoming good in Starcraft2 :/ OK, I agree, you know more. As I said at the start. This is great for you. But not great for the current fans of SC2. So we will probably stop watching the welfare tournaments, but of course, it can happen that there will be a new wave of fans arising who will cheer for the best SC2 player from their country (like in my country, it would be probably someone on the WCS ranking 487) and not caring about the high level of the world's best. I know there is a huge scene in at least 3 countries like Sweden, Poland and France that are in need of having their own heroes. That's also the part why these countries were successful in SC2 but not every country has that. RIP Germany  . Germany too but I thought of 3 countries that had bigger success and there wasn't anyone from Germany like that  Wow, that was low. I'm still cheering for you to win HSC though, so you'd better start working on a plan on how the beat ShoWTimE. I remember a certain tournament in sweden not too long ago... Showtime is good but in this topic we are talking about globally good players that could put up a fight with Koreans throughout the sc2 scene and from Germany nobody comes up to my mind like a foreigner hope.
Yeah I guess that's fair, good luck for HSC and 2016! Really hyped to see you in topform again.
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On December 18 2015 08:34 Nerchio wrote:
Hots being a terrible game didn't help either, these were the 2 things that got matched together. In WOL somehow we had players that could sometimes player or even beat the best koreans( Stephano/ Naniwa/ me/ Thorzain or whatever). Don't tell me about broodlord infestor.
How was HotS a terrible game?
edit: found your response
Even if you're right about certain MUs becoming worse (ZvZ, ZvP), I don't understand why that should disproportionately affect Koreans differently from foreigners.
Besides, there are no doubts that the most talented Zergs in Korea were able to win during HotS - Soulkey, soO, ByuL, Life are all indisputably respected for their skills. So regardless of the MUs being better or worse in some esoteric sense, they must have been rewarding skilled players or Soulkey/soO/ByuL/Life wouldn't have continued winning. Again, foreigners are disproportionately affected.
I think what's a lot more likely is that the skill ceiling went up with HotS and went up again with LotV. I don't believe it is a coincidence that foreign Terrans enjoyed the least amount of success in HotS and will again in LotV.
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On December 18 2015 06:40 Zetter wrote:
Now I'm very interested in which weekend tournaments will be WCS Global events and which will be WCS circuit events.
Yeah me too!!
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On December 18 2015 08:52 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:38 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
I still never understood why foreign tournaments being played by actual foreign players is seen as wellfare. It's the foreign scenes money that was flowing to Korean players, not the other way around.
The welfare comes from restricting players from competing just because they're Korean. So Western players get to hide from the scary high competition in Korea behind Blizzard's curtain of welfare money. What about the Thousands of players in Korea who are on the level of Western pros but aren't good enough to make KESPA rosters? Where is their charity tournament? It's welfare because this kind of generosity is only being directed at Western players. They don't deserve more money just because of where they live. They should have to earn it by fair competiton. Restricting the competition based on region doesn't do that.
It's not like thousands of those Koreans players are going to come the tournaments. It's going to be KESPA players.
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On December 18 2015 08:49 Nerchio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:44 Musicus wrote:On December 18 2015 08:42 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:40 Musicus wrote:On December 18 2015 08:37 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:35 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 08:25 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:22 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 08:14 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:10 Diabolique wrote:
[quote]
No. We all want to see foreigners. But foreigners beating Koreans. Like Snute both GSL and SSL champions at IEM. Or ShowTime almost beating PartinG at DH. It might be interesting for someone to watch the "League of losers", but it is like to watch a Wimbledon, which is allowed only for players ranked lower than TOP20. How do you want to see foreigners beat Koreans when they get matched with the best players in the world from the perfect practice environment in the first round of every tournament? Don't tell me to go to Korea to practice there because I don't see Kespa welcoming me with open arms and saying "Come Nerchio, we need you to practice with Innovation and Life!!" But I do not see any possibility for you to get to the Korean level in playing a closed Welfare Circuit with other Europeans. I mentioned the examples: Snute, ShowTime ... they were so close. BlizzCon could sponsor you if you need more money to have the proper motivation ... I do not think, having the locked Welfare Circuit will improve your play. Remember Lilbow's explanation, why he did not practice. "Because he did not have practice partners." TLO answered to him: "We offered to you to practice with you." Lilbow answered: "But you, all European Zergs, are weak. I have beaten you all. Why would I practice with you? What would it bring to me?" Having a locked Losers league will not improve the player's skills. The idea of Total Biscuit, forcing Koreans to play on western Ladders might help more. You do not see the possibility but I do and who knows more about becoming good in Starcraft2 :/ OK, I agree, you know more. As I said at the start. This is great for you. But not great for the current fans of SC2. So we will probably stop watching the welfare tournaments, but of course, it can happen that there will be a new wave of fans arising who will cheer for the best SC2 player from their country (like in my country, it would be probably someone on the WCS ranking 487) and not caring about the high level of the world's best. I know there is a huge scene in at least 3 countries like Sweden, Poland and France that are in need of having their own heroes. That's also the part why these countries were successful in SC2 but not every country has that. RIP Germany . Germany too but I thought of 3 countries that had bigger success and there wasn't anyone from Germany like that Wow, that was low. I'm still cheering for you to win HSC though, so you'd better start working on a plan on how the beat ShoWTimE. I remember a certain tournament in sweden not too long ago... Showtime is good but in this topic we are talking about globally good players that could put up a fight with Koreans throughout the sc2 scene and from Germany nobody comes up to my mind like a foreigner hope.
Never forget IM.NesTea(GSL champion?) vs ESC.GoOdy 1-2 at TSL :D
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On December 18 2015 08:38 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
I still never understood why foreign tournaments being played by actual foreign players is seen as wellfare. It's the foreign scenes money that was flowing to Korean players, not the other way around.
Come on, it was foreign money flowing to the best players.
There was nothing stopping tournament organizers for setting up region locked tournaments.
Now Blizzard is forcing it for them, which is entirely different.
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On December 18 2015 08:53 Nerchio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:52 Vindicare605 wrote:On December 18 2015 08:38 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
I still never understood why foreign tournaments being played by actual foreign players is seen as wellfare. It's the foreign scenes money that was flowing to Korean players, not the other way around.
The welfare comes from restricting players from competing just because they're Korean. So Western players get to hide from the scary high competition in Korea behind Blizzard's curtain of welfare money. What about the Thousands of players in Korea who are on the level of Western pros but aren't good enough to make KESPA rosters? Where is their charity tournament? It's welfare because this kind of generosity is only being directed at Western players. They don't deserve more money just because of where they live. They should have to earn it by fair competiton. Restricting the competition based on region doesn't do that. It's not like thousands of those Koreans players are going to come the tournaments. It's going to be KESPA players.
To be fair, he's not talking about practical concerns so much as the idea that it's simply unethical to value some individuals efforts and abilities over others
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On December 18 2015 08:52 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:38 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
I still never understood why foreign tournaments being played by actual foreign players is seen as wellfare. It's the foreign scenes money that was flowing to Korean players, not the other way around.
The welfare comes from restricting players from competing just because they're Korean. So Western players get to hide from the scary high competition in Korea behind Blizzard's curtain of welfare money. What about the Thousands of players in Korea who are on the level of Western pros but aren't good enough to make KESPA rosters? Where is their charity tournament? It's welfare because this kind of generosity is only being directed at Western players. They don't deserve more money just because of where they live. They should have to earn it by fair competiton. Restricting the competition based on region doesn't do that.
Meh to me the current situation is more like allowing Bayern Munich to win both the Champions League and the Europa League at the same time. Or Barcelona smashing the eredivisie in the netherlands
If you don't allow local competition their scenes will never grow to be better.
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On December 18 2015 08:29 Nerchio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:27 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 18 2015 08:12 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:09 ClanWars wrote:On December 18 2015 08:07 Nerchio wrote:On December 18 2015 08:03 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 07:58 Nerchio wrote:
I think it looks pretty good, makes me wanna practice but I am a little worried for EU region when there is Latin america etc. with lack of good players Good for you. You will have more money with less viewers. Great business for players, bad business for sponsors. But maybe, at the end of the year, Blizzard realizes how much money does this system cost them. Let's see what it looks like, for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners. Especially when a system for foreigners will motivate them to practice enough to put up a fight against koreas in global finals. Then the hype will be more than anything you've seen. Or the whole thing will implode. One way or the other its a large risk. It could work out, or it could bomb horribly. I guess we'll see. " for 1 person that wants to see Koreans there are 3 that wants to watch foreigners" that's not what the data from my tournaments said. The all Korean SHOUTcraft events beat the American SHOUTcraft events in viewership. Making single tournaments is not going to bring the scene alive, it was already dead to begin with after being flooded with Koreans from perfect practice environment. I totally agree that Koreans play better and they deserve more but we need to give some room to breathe for foreigners too. The scene died because of Koreans coming to foreign events? This just blows my mind ROTFL Boxer, Flash, Nada, MVP, Jaedong, MarineKing, Life, Parting, MC, Nesstea, Leenock etc had much much more "star power" then the vast majority of US/EU players. The only non Koreans that got lots of atention were the ones that usually practiced in Korea and got good, Idra, Jinro, TLO, Huk, etc. Hots being a terrible game didn't help either, these were the 2 things that got matched together. In WOL somehow we had players that could sometimes play on par or even beat the best koreans( Stephano/ Naniwa/ me/ Thorzain or whatever). Don't tell me about broodlord infestor.
Obviously because once Kespa switched, the level of Korean play (both in quality and quantity) dramatically increased. If Kespa never switched then Snute/Bunny and maybe a few others would have had Stephano/Naniwa status at least.
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On December 18 2015 08:55 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:52 Vindicare605 wrote:On December 18 2015 08:38 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
I still never understood why foreign tournaments being played by actual foreign players is seen as wellfare. It's the foreign scenes money that was flowing to Korean players, not the other way around.
The welfare comes from restricting players from competing just because they're Korean. So Western players get to hide from the scary high competition in Korea behind Blizzard's curtain of welfare money. What about the Thousands of players in Korea who are on the level of Western pros but aren't good enough to make KESPA rosters? Where is their charity tournament? It's welfare because this kind of generosity is only being directed at Western players. They don't deserve more money just because of where they live. They should have to earn it by fair competiton. Restricting the competition based on region doesn't do that. Meh to me the current situation is more like allowing Bayern Munich to win both the Champions League and the Europa League at the same time.
Actually, this is a great example and I believe, a good comparison. Champions league and the UEFA league. When I think, when did I last time watch the UEFA league? Since I had the possibility to watch Champions league, I stopped completely to watch the UEFA league. Unless there is MY team or a team from my country playing. And after my team was out, I neve watched it again. Why should I watch some second level Premier league team no. 4 playing some Spanish top 6 team? In the Champions league, I can watch Barcelona, Real, Paris SG, Bayern ... I am sure, every person will be watching his OWN team in UEFA. But not the other matches with other teams.
EDIT: actually, I even do not watch the UEFA matches from teams from my country. Just MY team. Why to watch the low level play when there is high level play available?
If Blizzard wanted to support SC2 foreign scene, they should do one more ban. They should forbid English casting of Korean leagues. Then, we all, who do not speak Koreans, would have to stop watching Korean tournaments and would be forced to watch the Welfare circuit. At the beginning, we would be angry, at the end, we would get used to it.
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On December 18 2015 08:53 Nerchio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:52 Vindicare605 wrote:On December 18 2015 08:38 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
I still never understood why foreign tournaments being played by actual foreign players is seen as wellfare. It's the foreign scenes money that was flowing to Korean players, not the other way around.
The welfare comes from restricting players from competing just because they're Korean. So Western players get to hide from the scary high competition in Korea behind Blizzard's curtain of welfare money. What about the Thousands of players in Korea who are on the level of Western pros but aren't good enough to make KESPA rosters? Where is their charity tournament? It's welfare because this kind of generosity is only being directed at Western players. They don't deserve more money just because of where they live. They should have to earn it by fair competiton. Restricting the competition based on region doesn't do that. It's not like thousands of those Koreans players are going to come the tournaments. It's going to be KESPA players.
And that's different from European Pros flying out to IEM Sao Paulo or Toronto?
So let me get this straight. China is one of the regions supported by the WCS Circuit this year. If one of the big tournaments happens to take place in Beijing this year and it happens to have open qualifiers like http://wcs.battle.net/sc2/en/articles/2016-wcs-details-and-requirements suggests.
Any European pro that didn't qualify for one of the seeded slots can go out and compete through the open bracket, but a Korean pro couldn't, because the European pro has citizenship in one of the eligible countries.
Explain to me how that is different. You're still giving way more opportunity to players with established teams that can fund travel, you're just restricting those kinds of opportunities now only to Western players.
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On December 18 2015 09:01 Diabolique wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:55 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On December 18 2015 08:52 Vindicare605 wrote:On December 18 2015 08:38 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
I still never understood why foreign tournaments being played by actual foreign players is seen as wellfare. It's the foreign scenes money that was flowing to Korean players, not the other way around.
The welfare comes from restricting players from competing just because they're Korean. So Western players get to hide from the scary high competition in Korea behind Blizzard's curtain of welfare money. What about the Thousands of players in Korea who are on the level of Western pros but aren't good enough to make KESPA rosters? Where is their charity tournament? It's welfare because this kind of generosity is only being directed at Western players. They don't deserve more money just because of where they live. They should have to earn it by fair competiton. Restricting the competition based on region doesn't do that. Meh to me the current situation is more like allowing Bayern Munich to win both the Champions League and the Europa League at the same time. Actually, this is a great example and I believe, a good comparison. Champions league and the UEFA league. When I think, when did I last time watch the UEFA league? Since I had the possibility to watch Champions league, I stopped completely to watch the UEFA league. Unless there is MY team or a team from my country playing. And after my team was out, I neve watched it again. Why should I watch some second level Premier league team no. 4 playing some Spanish top 6 team? In the Champions league, I can watch Barcelona, Real, Paris SG, Bayern ... I am sure, every person will be watching his OWN team in UEFA. But not the other matches with other players. EDIT: actually, I even do not watch the UEFA matches from teams from my country. Just MY team. Why to watch the low level play when there is high level play available? If Blizzard wanted to support SC2 foreign scene, they should do one more ban. They should forbid English casting of Korean leagues. Then, we all, who do not speak Koreans, would have to stop watching Korean tournaments and would be forced to watch the Welfare circuit. At the beginning, we would be angry, at the end, we would get used to it.
The question is: should we look at everything only from the perspective of how many views it will get? No. Otherwise all the teams from UEFA would never have a chance to get to Champions League
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Now that I think about it. You guys are saying everyone wants to watch koreans but still every DH and every other IEM has bigger foreigner viewership than GSL
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On December 18 2015 09:01 Diabolique wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:55 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On December 18 2015 08:52 Vindicare605 wrote:On December 18 2015 08:38 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
I still never understood why foreign tournaments being played by actual foreign players is seen as wellfare. It's the foreign scenes money that was flowing to Korean players, not the other way around.
The welfare comes from restricting players from competing just because they're Korean. So Western players get to hide from the scary high competition in Korea behind Blizzard's curtain of welfare money. What about the Thousands of players in Korea who are on the level of Western pros but aren't good enough to make KESPA rosters? Where is their charity tournament? It's welfare because this kind of generosity is only being directed at Western players. They don't deserve more money just because of where they live. They should have to earn it by fair competiton. Restricting the competition based on region doesn't do that. Meh to me the current situation is more like allowing Bayern Munich to win both the Champions League and the Europa League at the same time. Actually, this is a great example and I believe, a good comparison. Champions league and the UEFA league. When I think, when did I last time watch the UEFA league? Since I had the possibility to watch Champions league, I stopped completely to watch the UEFA league. Unless there is MY team or a team from my country playing. And after my team was out, I neve watched it again. Why should I watch some second level Premier league team no. 4 playing some Spanish top 6 team? In the Champions league, I can watch Barcelona, Real, Paris SG, Bayern ... I am sure, every person will be watching his OWN team in UEFA. But not the other matches with other teams. EDIT: actually, I even do not watch the UEFA matches from teams from my country. Just MY team. Why to watch the low level play when there is high level play available? If Blizzard wanted to support SC2 foreign scene, they should do one more ban. They should forbid English casting of Korean leagues. Then, we all, who do not speak Koreans, would have to stop watching Korean tournaments and would be forced to watch the Welfare circuit. At the beginning, we would be angry, at the end, we would get used to it.
You're hilarious. If blizzard made a move like that I would just stop watching Starcraft altogether.
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On December 18 2015 09:01 Diabolique wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 08:55 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On December 18 2015 08:52 Vindicare605 wrote:On December 18 2015 08:38 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
I still never understood why foreign tournaments being played by actual foreign players is seen as wellfare. It's the foreign scenes money that was flowing to Korean players, not the other way around.
The welfare comes from restricting players from competing just because they're Korean. So Western players get to hide from the scary high competition in Korea behind Blizzard's curtain of welfare money. What about the Thousands of players in Korea who are on the level of Western pros but aren't good enough to make KESPA rosters? Where is their charity tournament? It's welfare because this kind of generosity is only being directed at Western players. They don't deserve more money just because of where they live. They should have to earn it by fair competiton. Restricting the competition based on region doesn't do that. Meh to me the current situation is more like allowing Bayern Munich to win both the Champions League and the Europa League at the same time. Actually, this is a great example and I believe, a good comparison. Champions league and the UEFA league. When I think, when did I last time watch the UEFA league? Since I had the possibility to watch Champions league, I stopped completely to watch the UEFA league. Unless there is MY team or a team from my country playing. And after my team was out, I neve watched it again. Why should I watch some second level Premier league team no. 4 playing some Spanish top 6 team? In the Champions league, I can watch Barcelona, Real, Paris SG, Bayern ... I am sure, every person will be watching his OWN team in UEFA. But not the other matches with other players.
Sure you have a solid point more people will watch the Champions League. But the Europa league is still very important for the lesser teams to gain international tournament experience and money. The players on their team get better due to this experience, get exposure, and might move on to a better club. That's why it's important, and I feel the same is true for the SC2 scene
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On December 18 2015 09:09 Nerchio wrote:
Now that I think about it. You guys are saying everyone wants to watch koreans but still every DH and every other IEM has bigger foreigner viewership than GSL
This isn't a very rational argument. You are saying that TL forum posters represent the opinions and viewership habits of all starcraft viewers.
You also don't take in account for things like logistics/the time people have to watch tournaments who live in the western hemisphere
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On December 18 2015 09:07 Nerchio wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 09:01 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 08:55 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On December 18 2015 08:52 Vindicare605 wrote:On December 18 2015 08:38 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
I still never understood why foreign tournaments being played by actual foreign players is seen as wellfare. It's the foreign scenes money that was flowing to Korean players, not the other way around.
The welfare comes from restricting players from competing just because they're Korean. So Western players get to hide from the scary high competition in Korea behind Blizzard's curtain of welfare money. What about the Thousands of players in Korea who are on the level of Western pros but aren't good enough to make KESPA rosters? Where is their charity tournament? It's welfare because this kind of generosity is only being directed at Western players. They don't deserve more money just because of where they live. They should have to earn it by fair competiton. Restricting the competition based on region doesn't do that. Meh to me the current situation is more like allowing Bayern Munich to win both the Champions League and the Europa League at the same time. Actually, this is a great example and I believe, a good comparison. Champions league and the UEFA league. When I think, when did I last time watch the UEFA league? Since I had the possibility to watch Champions league, I stopped completely to watch the UEFA league. Unless there is MY team or a team from my country playing. And after my team was out, I neve watched it again. Why should I watch some second level Premier league team no. 4 playing some Spanish top 6 team? In the Champions league, I can watch Barcelona, Real, Paris SG, Bayern ... I am sure, every person will be watching his OWN team in UEFA. But not the other matches with other players. EDIT: actually, I even do not watch the UEFA matches from teams from my country. Just MY team. Why to watch the low level play when there is high level play available? If Blizzard wanted to support SC2 foreign scene, they should do one more ban. They should forbid English casting of Korean leagues. Then, we all, who do not speak Koreans, would have to stop watching Korean tournaments and would be forced to watch the Welfare circuit. At the beginning, we would be angry, at the end, we would get used to it. The question is: should we look at everything only from the perspective of how many views it will get? No. Otherwise all the teams from UEFA would never have a chance to get to Champions League
But you know, they are supported. The UEFA teams are getting part of the sponsor money, taken away from the total budget of Champions league. But is is WAY LESS than what the teams in the Champions league get.
Anyway, we can finish this discussion, I wish you success in HSC and Nation Wars and hopefully, you will manage to become one of the Chosen 8 for BlizzCon next year. But please, if you get there and play against Life, check your back rocks! And don't let him to finish 3 games in below 10 minutes!!! :-)
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On December 18 2015 09:09 Nerchio wrote:
Now that I think about it. You guys are saying everyone wants to watch koreans but still every DH and every other IEM has bigger foreigner viewership than GSL
Considering that GSL takes place on Korean time and Dreamhack takes place during peak European hours, it's hardly a surprise.
Do a GSL final during Peak North American or European viewing hours like we did back in 2011-2012 and you'll see even higher viewerships for that because now you're combining the highest level starcraft with the peak viewing hours of the majority of the audience.
Or basically you can just look at the numbers Blizzcon does every year.
The fact that I will deliberately stay up to watch the GSL, whereas I'll only tune into Dreamhack even when it's being played a convenient time when there are specific players or match ups that I like tells you everything you need to know about the quality of the tournaments.
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On December 18 2015 09:09 Nerchio wrote:
Now that I think about it. You guys are saying everyone wants to watch koreans but still every DH and every other IEM has bigger foreigner viewership than GSL
GSL is on at a non-friendly time for EU and the US. Of course the Foreign viewship numbers are going to be higher for DH/IEM, that has precisely dick to do with the talent on display.
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On December 18 2015 09:10 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2015 09:01 Diabolique wrote:On December 18 2015 08:55 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On December 18 2015 08:52 Vindicare605 wrote:On December 18 2015 08:38 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
I still never understood why foreign tournaments being played by actual foreign players is seen as wellfare. It's the foreign scenes money that was flowing to Korean players, not the other way around.
The welfare comes from restricting players from competing just because they're Korean. So Western players get to hide from the scary high competition in Korea behind Blizzard's curtain of welfare money. What about the Thousands of players in Korea who are on the level of Western pros but aren't good enough to make KESPA rosters? Where is their charity tournament? It's welfare because this kind of generosity is only being directed at Western players. They don't deserve more money just because of where they live. They should have to earn it by fair competiton. Restricting the competition based on region doesn't do that. Meh to me the current situation is more like allowing Bayern Munich to win both the Champions League and the Europa League at the same time. Actually, this is a great example and I believe, a good comparison. Champions league and the UEFA league. When I think, when did I last time watch the UEFA league? Since I had the possibility to watch Champions league, I stopped completely to watch the UEFA league. Unless there is MY team or a team from my country playing. And after my team was out, I neve watched it again. Why should I watch some second level Premier league team no. 4 playing some Spanish top 6 team? In the Champions league, I can watch Barcelona, Real, Paris SG, Bayern ... I am sure, every person will be watching his OWN team in UEFA. But not the other matches with other players. Sure you have a solid point more people will watch the Champions League. But the Europa league is still very important for the lesser teams to gain international tournament experience and money. The players on their team get better due to this experience, get exposure, and might move on to a better club. That's why it's important, and I feel the same is true for the SC2 scene
But nobody is saying to cancel it ... Uefa league is good, Welfare circuit is good. Just please do not cancel the premier league for that!
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EPT
