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NasusAndDraven
359 Posts
On June 19 2015 23:25 Thieving Magpie wrote: TLDR Strong AI is hard to make Strong Singleplayer is hard to make But you need one or the other before people jump into multiplayer. I dont know man. The AI in LoL is extreamly stupid. There is no singleplayer. Millions of people have jumped into multiplayer. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On June 20 2015 00:07 NasusAndDraven wrote: I dont know man. The AI in LoL is extreamly stupid. There is no singleplayer. Millions of people have jumped into multiplayer. It is a 5vs5 game based around controlling one guy. The learning curve is like 10x less than sc2 or Starbow. And the max skill needed is 2x less than sc2 and 3x less than starbow. | ||
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BaronVonOwn
299 Posts
On June 19 2015 23:13 -Archangel- wrote: Fully working AI that is also a challenge would go a long way to make this mod more popular. When options for first Starbow game are to not play or play MP vs people that know how to play most people will most of the time choose to not play and go back to something familiar. Let people train vs decent AI first and they will jump into MP afterwards. Worse case scenario they will come to forums and talk about the game even if they only played vs AI. Any talking about the game makes it more popular. True I felt pretty silly finding a game with experienced Starbow players because I'm really just messing around and learning the mod. If you have some friends who still play SC2 it's best to try it out with them. That being said the mod is basically Brood War so if you know Brood War then you know what to expect... I also think it's really important that Starbow become popular in the arcade. You are just not going to get big by having everyone come to a chat channel or website just to find a game. Getting in the top 10/20 of the arcade section would be great advertising for Starbow. Problem is there are so many different Starbow maps in the arcade. There needs to be one clear winner to stop splitting the already small player base. | ||
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Daumen
Germany1073 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On June 20 2015 01:08 Daumen wrote: Is Arthur THE Arthur? (Yoon Myung Hyuk?) yes On June 20 2015 01:01 BaronVonOwn wrote: I also think it's really important that Starbow become popular in the arcade. You are just not going to get big by having everyone come to a chat channel or website just to find a game. Getting in the top 10/20 of the arcade section would be great advertising for Starbow. Problem is there are so many different Starbow maps in the arcade. There needs to be one clear winner to stop splitting the already small player base. Fighting Spirit, no items, Fox only | ||
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NasusAndDraven
359 Posts
On June 20 2015 00:29 -Archangel- wrote: It is a 5vs5 game based around controlling one guy. The learning curve is like 10x less than sc2 or Starbow. And the max skill needed is 2x less than sc2 and 3x less than starbow. thank you guy who has never played the game. terms like "max skill" were thing that i did not know before. now i know better. Anyway even if starbow had a really good AI, I dont see the reason why anyone would want to play against it anyway. The correct way to practice is to train 1build order against each race playing on a map without enemy at all. Once you get that somewhat going (to about 20 supply) go to multiplayer. Getting crushed at 6minute mark does not mean you didnt learn anything that game. | ||
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TMagpie
265 Posts
On June 20 2015 00:07 NasusAndDraven wrote: I dont know man. The AI in LoL is extreamly stupid. There is no singleplayer. Millions of people have jumped into multiplayer. You obviously have not kept track of the PAGES of backstory, videos, and narrative in League of Legends explaining the narrative and the reasons why you're in the Nexus fighting. | ||
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NasusAndDraven
359 Posts
On June 20 2015 02:43 TMagpie wrote: You obviously have not kept track of the PAGES of backstory, videos, and narrative in League of Legends explaining the narrative and the reasons why you're in the Nexus fighting. I have but I dont know what that has anything to do with what we are talking about. Lore is not the same thing as single player. | ||
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TMagpie
265 Posts
On June 20 2015 03:16 NasusAndDraven wrote: I have but I dont know what that has anything to do with what we are talking about. Lore is not the same thing as single player. It has everything to do with with multiplayer. Before someone decides to spend time practicing something difficult with a big skill wall in front of him--he needs to care to some degree. This is normally done through single player or "vs AI" (League of Legends also does strong AI for noobs btw), but it can also be done through strong lore (look at Yugioh, Pokemon, etc...) For the most part, random players need to give a shit about your version of the game to some degree before competing with humans. Tonnes of LoL players just fight vs 5 bots and feel great about themselves or to just practice timings on new characters or to just test new characters in an easier environment before going versus humans. Starbow does none of that. Why do units do something? Abstract game theory is the answer. Even SC2 spends entire cut scenes and missions to explain what a tank or viking is. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7028 Posts
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TMagpie
265 Posts
On June 20 2015 04:59 Grumbels wrote: For instance, in chess the king is the most important piece as shown by the name and the model. You want to protect your king naturally. The knight is shaped like a horse and can jump over other pieces. The pawn is the common foot soldier that can be sacrificed, yet every pawn can get a change in destiny and become a major piece upon promotion. People have a lot of reason to care here. Pre-european influence Chess pieces had different names and moves. When it moved to the Europe it was changed to match the lore of "European Armies." Only once it became synonymous with "strategic thought" did the flavor of Chess become secondary to the game theory of chess. But it needed the fluff first before it got popular. | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
New / more website and ladder programming. Community members from the ends of Australia to the cold beaches of Denmark have shown their support by contributing to the development of the website and the ladder. This is our current team (in no specific order):
No immidiate results here since most are very new, but with so many resources, we should see some progress and hopefully much more development in the future  Resources for new players. A lot of new players have requested help to get started and wonderful community members have done various acts to help. Too many to mention here, so I apologize to you if you've done stuff to help new members that I am not listing here. But here are some recent resources:
Weekly tournaments to continue We don't have all the details yet, but BorN (caster) and Jams (admin) with aid of Kellis (co-caster) have agreed to keep weekly tournaments going throughout the summer after the departure of Vehk. Vehk might be back after the summer though. TRB will soon set up a Paetron to help fund these events. They will most probably be moved to Fridays or Saturdays as this works best for the parties involved. More information to come here later. But don't forget. Monday Night Starbow #33 this Monday http://starbowmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=951New maps and map-making help Avex is a boss and has added MANY new maps (see the map section). I also asked him to write a guide to help new mapmakers with Starbow maps: http://starbowmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=953 I also know that Meavis, Meerel, IeZael, and Superouman are ALL working on at least one Starbow map each atm. New icons made by Avex are being added to various maps to make it easier to navigate among the plentiful Starbow maps that are on the arcade. This should also make it easier to spot old maps uploaded by others which have not been removed. (I wish I could control their accounts...) Game Development A new list of potential future changes that we wanted to test have been made here: http://starbowmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=582&pid=13040#pid13040 We'd love for as many as possible to test this and replay on the forum. Preferably with attached replays. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2623 Posts
On June 20 2015 08:52 Xiphias wrote: Resources for new players. A lot of new players have requested help to get started and wonderful community members have done various acts to help. Too many to mention here, so I apologize to you if you've done stuff to help new members that I am not listing here. But here are some recent resources:
I think a basic overview of macro could be helpful to get used faster to the difference between HotS and Starbow. Stuff like general rules for expansion, how many production per base, general gas timings in relation to builds and general strategy behind the use of macro mechanics. I know a lot of the BW stuff works for Starbow, but I think some general guide lines that could help new players get started without having to dive head on blindly could be really helpful, also they don't need to be super detailed guides just general tips and guidelines that players with more experience can give to first timers to make the transition more smooth. | ||
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niteowl111
6 Posts
As a matter of fact, I think Starbow is what SC2 should have been, really. A lot of fantastic decisions have obviously been made to improve micro and make the game about strategy instead of massing units and A-moving a deathball. (I particularly like touches like having warp gate as a late game upgrade, but slower than gateways) Anyways, a fantastic job guys. Having said all that, I can see why Blizzard went in a different direction with SC2. I could be wrong but I think these days new gamers prefer something faster and somewhat dumber like SC2 (still the best RTS out there, mind you) to a much more strategic game involving many more choices like Starbow, and at the end of the day a company needs profits. As for myself, I did play, and love, BW, but I haven't played it for years and recently I only played SC2...so, to be honest, atm I suck. On top of that, in Starbow there a ton more abilities, upgrades, units and structures than in BW, so, it will take me a while to figure out all of it (protoss player, but right now it feels like I have no idea what I'm doing in terms of build orders...and it feels good but also weird not to have sentries or immortals). I wish there was some more detailed guides about it all, tbh, but it is what it is... Obviously a lot of time has been put into this great game already so I don't mind, over time, figuring things out on my own. Lastly, I notice there are quite a few maps in the arcade (not sure that is a good thing, though, because the players' pool becomes split and it will take longer to find someone to play against, which could be detrimental in the long term) Anyways, right now I just want to mess around a bit with protoss against the AI to figure out the tech trees, upgrades etc any particular map you'd recommend for that? Any map you'd recommend in general? Hopefully I will play against some of you guys after I've figured things out a little more So, yeah, I'm just a casual player really, but once again great job, love Starbow and I will play it exclusively (until LOTV comes out, when I will play a bit of both). peace | ||
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DecofCaffee
16 Posts
Most people hang out in the starbow ladder chat, it's quite easy to use: http://starbowmod.com/about/howtoplay Watching the casted games really helped me learn the ins and outs: https://www.youtube.com/user/Isaksen85/playlists glhf! | ||
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niteowl111
6 Posts
On June 20 2015 10:19 DecofCaffee wrote: Fighting spirit is a really popular map Most people hang out in the starbow ladder chat, it's quite easy to use: http://starbowmod.com/about/howtoplay Watching the casted games really helped me learn the ins and outs: https://www.youtube.com/user/Isaksen85/playlists glhf! cool, I'll check those out, thanks | ||
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FT.aCt)Sony
United States1047 Posts
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TzTz
Germany511 Posts
How about a "Map of the Day" Thing to solve the "spread out" issue in the arcade? You could switch the terrain around every day but games would count towards ONE map in the arcade system. We had over 1500 games in the last week in ladder alone. I think chances aren't that bad to get a good place in arcade. | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
The problem with "map of the day" is a lot of map managment, and each map is connected to a name, which means that we can't have they all be named "Starbow". And we need a ladder map pool as well. I think most players don't come from the casual arcade player pool regardless. Also, Starbowmod.com is down for reasons we are not sure about yet. I'll post again once it's back up. | ||
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FT.aCt)Sony
United States1047 Posts
On June 22 2015 17:29 Xiphias wrote: Luna is still up. Been up for a while. The problem with "map of the day" is a lot of map managment, and each map is connected to a name, which means that we can't have they all be named "Starbow". And we need a ladder map pool as well. I think most players don't come from the casual arcade player pool regardless. Also, Starbowmod.com is down for reasons we are not sure about yet. I'll post again once it's back up. Why didn't you tell me?!?!? Did you end up tweaking my version I had made awhile back? | ||
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