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On January 20 2015 12:40 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2015 12:32 Breshke wrote:On January 20 2015 12:28 rsoultin wrote:On January 20 2015 12:24 Breshke wrote:On January 20 2015 12:15 rsoultin wrote:On January 20 2015 12:11 Breshke wrote:On January 20 2015 12:09 rsoultin wrote:
Hey, Breshke...did you arrive at your list of possible scum by poe? Just curious. Yep, fairly weak PoE as well since id actually had DP as a townread D1. I generally like to talk things out during the night phase. You were a good person to bounce ideas off of the last time I played with you. It crossed my mind that you could be blue...but since that doesn't seem to be the case...why lay low the whole night? I had originally planned to be around after EoD because thats when i knew people would be around but i got called into work so that couldn't happen and when i got back there didnt seem to be anyone around and i was tired as shit so i went to bed. But i've had too many irl excuses this game so i don't expect you to accept that. Also i think i know where you are going with this and i don't think it is a good direction. I'm not sure but are you trying to say scum is less likely to be active during the night because they are busy in their QT? If so i don't think that is the case. Nah, I don't think it's generally alignment indicative. Some players talk and some don't. I just remember having discussions with you on my first game here, that's all, so I know you're not one of the players who avoids posting in the night phase, at least not exclusively. Yeah GB taught me it is good to go hard during the night. The problem being i like to do votecount analysis and the D1 votecount is fairly useless because everyone who was around was switching to WW. Even the votecounts before that don't seem to be that useful because it is very likely it was all town wagons D1. That I can definitely understand. My first reaction to the lynch was this is a royal mess...but it does narrow down potential scum a bit, so in that sense it could have been worse lol. Thanks for answering.
How did the lynch narrow down scum for you? Or do you jsut mean because WW flipped town?
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On January 18 2015 13:18 Breshke wrote:Damdred i had a look at jarjars filter and am probably agreeing with you. Show nested quote +On January 17 2015 18:32 jarjarbinks wrote:On January 17 2015 07:44 LightningStrike wrote:On January 17 2015 07:43 DarthPunk wrote:On January 17 2015 07:41 LightningStrike wrote:On January 17 2015 07:40 DarthPunk wrote:On January 17 2015 07:38 LightningStrike wrote:On January 17 2015 07:35 DarthPunk wrote:On January 17 2015 07:32 LightningStrike wrote:On January 17 2015 07:28 DarthPunk wrote:
What does everyone think of Trfel after his weird vote on Geript?
This is the first time I seen him do policy lynching Day 1 so I have no idea if he's town or not based on meta alone. Well I don't think you need to use meta especially on such a new player. To me it seemed like a very townie thing to do even though it was bad and wrong. Which newbie scum player is going to try and policy lynch a vet at the start of the game? Shows no fear of being controversial in the thread. Shit like that rarely happens for new scum players. Sorry to break it to you but Tfrel is not entirely new since he played 3 games with me with 1 of them me being scum and him town and the rest we were both town together so I know his town meta but this is something he never done at the opening of any of the games I played with him. LOL. Sorry to break it to you but 3 games is still new. Meh fair enough. What are your thoughts on Tfrels actions so far? Are you not reading the thread? I just said I thought it was townie. Like we were just talking about that. Ops I was just a little bit to tunneled on replying to you. I do agree his behavior is most likely town to policy lynch a vet player Day 1 but it not exactly good idea to do it (shurgs) This is behavior that doesn't surprise me. I'm using this quote because I feel like it best justifies my argument for why I think he's town. Last game (this is a meta read), LS did things like this and got decimated for it. Almost got killed D1. Got killed D2. I would hope this doesn't happen again. On the argument that LS is acting more "ballsy" and that "ballsy=mafia" I would counter with that LS is learning the game and is more confident. Plus, I felt he was kind of right in sticking up for himself in saying that trfel had playing 3 games and that was less "newby" than people were giving him credit for. IF I had to pick someone to be "the towniest of the town", I would pick LS. He has generated discussion. He is acting similiarly to last game where he was town. Only way to lynch this guy D1 would be to policy lynch him for lack of experience. This read is almost baseless. Amid all the fluff the two reasons for the town read are that he generated discussion and meta. As to the generated discussion part i would say many players have done this. The first two that come to mind are Trfel and GB with both of their openings. However in the spoiler below you can see that Jarjar doesn't think that them making waves with their opening is alignment indicative but thinks the fact that LS has generated discussion is townie. The thought process here doesn't seem to line up. + Show Spoiler +On January 17 2015 18:48 jarjarbinks wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2015 15:35 Trfel wrote:GlowingBear, I'm assuming that you typed those posts over the course of reading the game? So the first things you said were not influenced on the later things? The rest of this post will be using that assumption. You read jarjarbinks D1 from the previous game (Newbie Mafia). You know that his play was miserable on D1 there as well, and he was town (his play was considerably better after D1). Someone is going to have to teach him how to play D1 (looking at you rsoultin), but I don't think I can see myself lynching him for inactivity, even if he provided a terrible excuse for it. On January 17 2015 13:45 GlowingBear wrote:On January 17 2015 10:47 LightningStrike wrote:
I don't think there is a voting thread for this game fyi guys. Also what is the BS Meter? I never heard you use this term before can you explain it please? OMG THIS IS HORRIBLE What is so horrible about this post? I mean, it is surprising that LightningStrike didn't know what rsoultin meant by BS meter, but I don't understand why that makes it a horrible post. Are you saying that LightningStrike is scum because of this, or just that the post is bad? I also noticed that you said that one of my posts was bad, and then one of my paragraphs was bad and full of fluff. Then you townread me. What is the reasoning behind this read? That I attempted to follow your advice for promoting discussion? (for the record, I fully realize that your entrance post is intended to do the exact same thing, and I tried to make a point of it, but no one else responded, so..)Also, why the emphasis on Damdred? + Show Spoiler [For GlowingBear] +For obvious reasons we can't discuss the effectiveness of my attempts to promote discussion now, but hopefully you can help me with this after the game? I bolded the part (I hope lol) of this quote that I thought summed up my thoughts on Trfel and GlowingBear. Trfel's vote and GlowingBears equally "interesting" opening is probably due to the strategy GlowingBear helped give Trfel. GlowingBear's explanation of Trfel's Vote makes this WIFOM in my eyes. They both started the way they did to make waves and nothing more. Not alignment indicative in my eyes. That being said, I'm more suspicious of GlowingBear over Trfel because of his playing experience. A counterargument to this for Trfel is his "stubbornness" on the bottom of page 8. Strange play if you were just trying to "make waves". He could just feel a necessity to defend himself, but I felt the arguments against his vote were relatively weak at the time. Saying what I said above about GlowingBear, I feel like he might want to try doing something else besides claiming VT at the beginning if that was the "making waves" play that shows balls. Us newbs killed LS for just that last game and we (mostly me) are slow learners. Also secondly on his meta point he has played one game as town and has never seen him as mafia so that isn't really justified either. Hence i think his LS read is fairly scummy
So this post here, Breshke. I remember this catching my attention but then I forgot. The meta read obviously doesn't hold that much weight, though I'd think you'd have a read on LS cause you've played with him more. My question is...do you put LS' play early game in the same category as GB's and Trfel's?
This almost seems like a problem with semantics, from my pov.
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I going to bed right now and when I wake up I will check on the stuff and tell you my thoughts on them!
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On January 20 2015 12:57 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2015 12:40 rsoultin wrote:On January 20 2015 12:32 Breshke wrote:On January 20 2015 12:28 rsoultin wrote:On January 20 2015 12:24 Breshke wrote:On January 20 2015 12:15 rsoultin wrote:On January 20 2015 12:11 Breshke wrote:On January 20 2015 12:09 rsoultin wrote:
Hey, Breshke...did you arrive at your list of possible scum by poe? Just curious. Yep, fairly weak PoE as well since id actually had DP as a townread D1. I generally like to talk things out during the night phase. You were a good person to bounce ideas off of the last time I played with you. It crossed my mind that you could be blue...but since that doesn't seem to be the case...why lay low the whole night? I had originally planned to be around after EoD because thats when i knew people would be around but i got called into work so that couldn't happen and when i got back there didnt seem to be anyone around and i was tired as shit so i went to bed. But i've had too many irl excuses this game so i don't expect you to accept that. Also i think i know where you are going with this and i don't think it is a good direction. I'm not sure but are you trying to say scum is less likely to be active during the night because they are busy in their QT? If so i don't think that is the case. Nah, I don't think it's generally alignment indicative. Some players talk and some don't. I just remember having discussions with you on my first game here, that's all, so I know you're not one of the players who avoids posting in the night phase, at least not exclusively. Yeah GB taught me it is good to go hard during the night. The problem being i like to do votecount analysis and the D1 votecount is fairly useless because everyone who was around was switching to WW. Even the votecounts before that don't seem to be that useful because it is very likely it was all town wagons D1. That I can definitely understand. My first reaction to the lynch was this is a royal mess...but it does narrow down potential scum a bit, so in that sense it could have been worse lol. Thanks for answering. How did the lynch narrow down scum for you? Or do you jsut mean because WW flipped town?
My townreads were pretty limited prior. I've since solidified my read on GB (meh, means nothing now) and have Damdred as a townread along with geript so long as I'm right about JJB.
I'm too paranoid to be overly liberal with townreads, heh.
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On January 20 2015 12:35 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2015 12:33 geript wrote:On January 20 2015 12:25 rsoultin wrote:On January 20 2015 12:11 geript wrote:On January 20 2015 11:54 Damdred wrote:
Geript, lets say I calmed down and have taken a step back and gazed over your filters in Russian mafia and here. Im comfortable saying the anger here isn't like what happens in Russian where you are just 100% cool until you get caught by what you deem to be an imbalanced game.
I don't see you throwing doubts on people as mafia in this case, you would roll with it and bus your team mate without questioning claims I think.
I think you are towny this game, and shouldn't let my paranoia get the better of me probably.
So that leaves me with staring at (minus town reads)
Breshke
LM
geript talk to me about DP. How sure are you that hes town right here? I know you were pretty sure earlier? 99.5% I absolutely could be wrong about him. I'm just not seeing it. There's too many things that don't really add up for him to be mafia. The NK. Like it looks really bad for him if both LM and Trfel are mafia; I get that. His GB case was meh and I was surprised that he didn't feel about GB how I felt about him at the time. I'd consider lynching him this game only if LM and Trfel are mafia. But I'm pretty sure I'd still want to lynch other people first. Like I see absolutely no reason for him to kill GB there. Like it's a really terrible kill. Plus, he's not in any way afraid to bus as mafia. He did it to Todd or one of the low hanging fruit in the VS game. He and Palmer both bussed the fuck out of Vivax or some other people in MS paint. Like if people are catching a bunch of flack, not pulling their weight, etc. he'll just bus them for cred. He's also more of an egotistical asshole when he's mafia. He's actually been quite tame this game. Like really tame. He also would be significantly blindly follow me on WW than just bus a shitty partner. He'd just lynch GB. He'd find it too fun. You know him better than I (or probably anyone) does... Do you think that my more or less solo push on trfel would have been enough to prompt a buss? Or the pressure on LM? In the Carol game, HF was the mafia RBr, and because of that the scum team put their necks out for him more than they probably otherwise would have. Do you think that would be a factor with DP? Or does he just not care? These are honest questions, not a trap, I promise lol Like I said before, your case wasn't very good imo. So no. Then...why are you sure he's town again, if you don't think there was enough pressure on trfel to merit a buss? Just the NK? You honestly feel he'd kill you 100% of the time?
Because he's playing like he does when he's town. And he's really easy to read early on. Like I get what he's saying.
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On January 20 2015 12:55 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2015 12:33 rsoultin wrote:On January 20 2015 12:29 Breshke wrote:
Also RSo you said youve been through LM's filter a few times, have you got anything from it? Not a lot. Just that his EoD votes followed thread sentiment for weak reasons. He did say he'd help me find scum, that he'd look through GB's and Damdred's filter, but he didn't. :/ <- I don't consider that alignment indicative lol it just made me :/ His reads were not very substantial, either, but I've only seen him play once before so I don't know if that means anything. He seemed to jump on the JJR wagon with a weak reason for why he was going back on his earlier read. I want to say that when he jumped on thread sentiment was that GB was going to be lynched so this could have been a safe vote for him. Also in a town v town i think it would be best for scum to keep the votes as close as possible as to always keep the person who doesn't get lynched a question mark but im not sure if that actually makes sense. Show nested quote +On January 19 2015 03:12 LoneMeow wrote:On January 19 2015 02:35 TheWarWaffle wrote:On January 19 2015 02:29 rsoultin wrote:On January 19 2015 02:23 TheWarWaffle wrote:On January 19 2015 00:10 LoneMeow wrote:On January 18 2015 12:11 TheWarWaffle wrote:
Trfel: Beginning the game with a policy vote, on one of the most veteran players, makes no sense from a town perspective. His concerns regarding LS seem odd considering he always posts this way. Indeed, many of Trfel's meta-reads are effectively useless. I don't know why he would be making meta-reads based on the fact that he is playing completely different than his previous game. There is a great deal of fluff in almost all of his posts if one looks close enough... excessive repetition of known facts, lengthening of paragraphs with "purple prose", etc.
How does the policy vote in first post make more sense from scum perspective? Where did Trfel give meta reads? I did not notice many of those in his filter. Please quote me some. It's not just about the policy vote; it's about how all of Trfel's actions coalesce into a very suspicious pile. The vote itself was suspicious in Trfel's meta-reads: rsoultin, I would like to know what you expected to gain from some of your later questions, particularly, "do you intend to scumhunt this game"? There is only one possible answer to that question. Also, do you have any thoughts on the rest of the thread? I'm surprised that you picked on my opening but not GlowingBear's opening, which is bad for reasons I have previously stated.
That said, rsoultin's questioning does fit with her town meta. For an example of this, see the opening of the most recent Newbie Mafia.
Rsoultin and jarjar, you two need to talk so that jarjar feels comfortable with Day 1. That aside, while jarjar's opening post is pretty horrible, he has given some useful thoughts since then. As for rsoultin, I feel that her play lines up exactly with (my knowledge of) her town meta. At the same time, WarWaffle seemed to provide many more reads in the previous game. I know this game hasn't been going for as long yet, but there has been more posting here. And last game he had lots of time issues as well (I know he said he had some in this game, I think, but they should be less than last game).
There are more, and there are posts made by him entirely on the topic of meta I will not post here. I am unsure as to how you may have missed them, considering what few reads Trfel has are all based of off predetermined ideas of what people should be doing. What is YOUR definition of meta, LoneMeow? WarWaffle, if we can't lynch Trfel today, do you still prefer GB? Absolutely. I'm leaning more towards GB than Trfel at the moment after having read both of their filters over and over again. Trfel at least pretends to be town; GB doesn't seem to care either way. Trfel will attempt to argue his way out of an accusation; GB will either ignore it or treat it like it's something other than what it is. I will leave my vote on Trfel as of now but GlowingBear is likely my EoD lynch target as of now. If you think GlowingBear has better chance of flipping scum than Trfel then why would you not move your vote? Show nested quote +On January 19 2015 03:27 LoneMeow wrote:
rsoultin, so if I somehow manage to convince you to not lynch me, and Trfel isn't viable either, who's the next best choice? These two posts also stuck out to me as trying to keep trfel off the table for today even though he was null on him but i think i could just be trying to find things to make him scummy as these could easily be made as town
Eh...the 2nd quote I think was a valid question...since WW had said (if I recall correctly) that GB was his top scumread.
The 3rd in all honesty was because I'd said I was laying off trfel.
I don't think either of those quotes were really alignment indicative.
The JJB vote though specifically got Damdred's attention, and mine when I went to look for context but there really wasn't any that I could see to make him suddenly change his mind.
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The best way I can describe it is that reading DP is alot like really good sex. At first you aren't always sure where it's going, but once you're in you know it's going to be fucking sweet. He's abrasive and an asshole. It's just who he is. He speaks his mind. So you naturally don't want to like him at all because he comes off as a jerk. But really he's a nice guy.
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On January 20 2015 12:57 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 13:18 Breshke wrote:Damdred i had a look at jarjars filter and am probably agreeing with you. On January 17 2015 18:32 jarjarbinks wrote:On January 17 2015 07:44 LightningStrike wrote:On January 17 2015 07:43 DarthPunk wrote:On January 17 2015 07:41 LightningStrike wrote:On January 17 2015 07:40 DarthPunk wrote:On January 17 2015 07:38 LightningStrike wrote:On January 17 2015 07:35 DarthPunk wrote:On January 17 2015 07:32 LightningStrike wrote:
[quote]
This is the first time I seen him do policy lynching Day 1 so I have no idea if he's town or not based on meta alone. Well I don't think you need to use meta especially on such a new player. To me it seemed like a very townie thing to do even though it was bad and wrong. Which newbie scum player is going to try and policy lynch a vet at the start of the game? Shows no fear of being controversial in the thread. Shit like that rarely happens for new scum players. Sorry to break it to you but Tfrel is not entirely new since he played 3 games with me with 1 of them me being scum and him town and the rest we were both town together so I know his town meta but this is something he never done at the opening of any of the games I played with him. LOL. Sorry to break it to you but 3 games is still new. Meh fair enough. What are your thoughts on Tfrels actions so far? Are you not reading the thread? I just said I thought it was townie. Like we were just talking about that. Ops I was just a little bit to tunneled on replying to you. I do agree his behavior is most likely town to policy lynch a vet player Day 1 but it not exactly good idea to do it (shurgs) This is behavior that doesn't surprise me. I'm using this quote because I feel like it best justifies my argument for why I think he's town. Last game (this is a meta read), LS did things like this and got decimated for it. Almost got killed D1. Got killed D2. I would hope this doesn't happen again. On the argument that LS is acting more "ballsy" and that "ballsy=mafia" I would counter with that LS is learning the game and is more confident. Plus, I felt he was kind of right in sticking up for himself in saying that trfel had playing 3 games and that was less "newby" than people were giving him credit for. IF I had to pick someone to be "the towniest of the town", I would pick LS. He has generated discussion. He is acting similiarly to last game where he was town. Only way to lynch this guy D1 would be to policy lynch him for lack of experience. This read is almost baseless. Amid all the fluff the two reasons for the town read are that he generated discussion and meta. As to the generated discussion part i would say many players have done this. The first two that come to mind are Trfel and GB with both of their openings. However in the spoiler below you can see that Jarjar doesn't think that them making waves with their opening is alignment indicative but thinks the fact that LS has generated discussion is townie. The thought process here doesn't seem to line up. + Show Spoiler +On January 17 2015 18:48 jarjarbinks wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2015 15:35 Trfel wrote:GlowingBear, I'm assuming that you typed those posts over the course of reading the game? So the first things you said were not influenced on the later things? The rest of this post will be using that assumption. You read jarjarbinks D1 from the previous game (Newbie Mafia). You know that his play was miserable on D1 there as well, and he was town (his play was considerably better after D1). Someone is going to have to teach him how to play D1 (looking at you rsoultin), but I don't think I can see myself lynching him for inactivity, even if he provided a terrible excuse for it. On January 17 2015 13:45 GlowingBear wrote:On January 17 2015 10:47 LightningStrike wrote:
I don't think there is a voting thread for this game fyi guys. Also what is the BS Meter? I never heard you use this term before can you explain it please? OMG THIS IS HORRIBLE What is so horrible about this post? I mean, it is surprising that LightningStrike didn't know what rsoultin meant by BS meter, but I don't understand why that makes it a horrible post. Are you saying that LightningStrike is scum because of this, or just that the post is bad? I also noticed that you said that one of my posts was bad, and then one of my paragraphs was bad and full of fluff. Then you townread me. What is the reasoning behind this read? That I attempted to follow your advice for promoting discussion? (for the record, I fully realize that your entrance post is intended to do the exact same thing, and I tried to make a point of it, but no one else responded, so..)Also, why the emphasis on Damdred? + Show Spoiler [For GlowingBear] +For obvious reasons we can't discuss the effectiveness of my attempts to promote discussion now, but hopefully you can help me with this after the game? I bolded the part (I hope lol) of this quote that I thought summed up my thoughts on Trfel and GlowingBear. Trfel's vote and GlowingBears equally "interesting" opening is probably due to the strategy GlowingBear helped give Trfel. GlowingBear's explanation of Trfel's Vote makes this WIFOM in my eyes. They both started the way they did to make waves and nothing more. Not alignment indicative in my eyes. That being said, I'm more suspicious of GlowingBear over Trfel because of his playing experience. A counterargument to this for Trfel is his "stubbornness" on the bottom of page 8. Strange play if you were just trying to "make waves". He could just feel a necessity to defend himself, but I felt the arguments against his vote were relatively weak at the time. Saying what I said above about GlowingBear, I feel like he might want to try doing something else besides claiming VT at the beginning if that was the "making waves" play that shows balls. Us newbs killed LS for just that last game and we (mostly me) are slow learners. Also secondly on his meta point he has played one game as town and has never seen him as mafia so that isn't really justified either. Hence i think his LS read is fairly scummy So this post here, Breshke. I remember this catching my attention but then I forgot. The meta read obviously doesn't hold that much weight, though I'd think you'd have a read on LS cause you've played with him more. My question is...do you put LS' play early game in the same category as GB's and Trfel's? This almost seems like a problem with semantics, from my pov.
Um im not exactly sure what you mean but i think the answer is no. GB and trefel both purposely set out to create discussion with opening posts that people would find weird and what not. Whereas LS created discussion by just being LS. The point was both sides were still creating discussion but he seemed to only be townreading LS for it. LS was also his only town read at the time and he seemed fairly certain and i couldnt understand why because as i found both his reasons lacking.
I wouldn't say i have a meta read on LS i havn't played nearly enough games with him or anyone to have any meta reads. I agree that LS can easily be misread as scum when he is town but I also think that works a lot for him when he is mafia because people who have played with him before seem more inclined to town read him like I even found myself doing it this game.
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He's a lot like me. He's really transparent if you bother to read him. He doesn't bother with the niceties and bullshit. You just know when he's bullshitting.
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On January 20 2015 13:03 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2015 12:35 rsoultin wrote:On January 20 2015 12:33 geript wrote:On January 20 2015 12:25 rsoultin wrote:On January 20 2015 12:11 geript wrote:On January 20 2015 11:54 Damdred wrote:
Geript, lets say I calmed down and have taken a step back and gazed over your filters in Russian mafia and here. Im comfortable saying the anger here isn't like what happens in Russian where you are just 100% cool until you get caught by what you deem to be an imbalanced game.
I don't see you throwing doubts on people as mafia in this case, you would roll with it and bus your team mate without questioning claims I think.
I think you are towny this game, and shouldn't let my paranoia get the better of me probably.
So that leaves me with staring at (minus town reads)
Breshke
LM
geript talk to me about DP. How sure are you that hes town right here? I know you were pretty sure earlier? 99.5% I absolutely could be wrong about him. I'm just not seeing it. There's too many things that don't really add up for him to be mafia. The NK. Like it looks really bad for him if both LM and Trfel are mafia; I get that. His GB case was meh and I was surprised that he didn't feel about GB how I felt about him at the time. I'd consider lynching him this game only if LM and Trfel are mafia. But I'm pretty sure I'd still want to lynch other people first. Like I see absolutely no reason for him to kill GB there. Like it's a really terrible kill. Plus, he's not in any way afraid to bus as mafia. He did it to Todd or one of the low hanging fruit in the VS game. He and Palmer both bussed the fuck out of Vivax or some other people in MS paint. Like if people are catching a bunch of flack, not pulling their weight, etc. he'll just bus them for cred. He's also more of an egotistical asshole when he's mafia. He's actually been quite tame this game. Like really tame. He also would be significantly blindly follow me on WW than just bus a shitty partner. He'd just lynch GB. He'd find it too fun. You know him better than I (or probably anyone) does... Do you think that my more or less solo push on trfel would have been enough to prompt a buss? Or the pressure on LM? In the Carol game, HF was the mafia RBr, and because of that the scum team put their necks out for him more than they probably otherwise would have. Do you think that would be a factor with DP? Or does he just not care? These are honest questions, not a trap, I promise lol Like I said before, your case wasn't very good imo. So no. Then...why are you sure he's town again, if you don't think there was enough pressure on trfel to merit a buss? Just the NK? You honestly feel he'd kill you 100% of the time? Because he's playing like he does when he's town. And he's really easy to read early on. Like I get what he's saying.
:/ Lol, okay. He is because he is. Alright, well, I'll take a look through his filter tomorrow after work. Most of what I remember seemed townie enough; it's mostly just his association with trfel that makes me suspicious. I don't see him as a Day 3 lynch unless something drastic happens anyway.
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@Breshke. I want you to do vote analysis Pre-switch, pre claim. I'm actually interested in what you think there.
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Shining did a decent amount of work post flip and had some decent thoughts. Its generally a townie trait to jump straight in and get thoughts in during the night to me, some of his other things had a nice push to it as well.
Its one of my weaker town reads but I doubt I lynch him tomorrow.
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On January 20 2015 13:07 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2015 12:57 rsoultin wrote:On January 18 2015 13:18 Breshke wrote:Damdred i had a look at jarjars filter and am probably agreeing with you. On January 17 2015 18:32 jarjarbinks wrote:On January 17 2015 07:44 LightningStrike wrote:On January 17 2015 07:43 DarthPunk wrote:On January 17 2015 07:41 LightningStrike wrote:On January 17 2015 07:40 DarthPunk wrote:On January 17 2015 07:38 LightningStrike wrote:On January 17 2015 07:35 DarthPunk wrote:
[quote]
Well I don't think you need to use meta especially on such a new player.
To me it seemed like a very townie thing to do even though it was bad and wrong.
Which newbie scum player is going to try and policy lynch a vet at the start of the game?
Shows no fear of being controversial in the thread. Shit like that rarely happens for new scum players. Sorry to break it to you but Tfrel is not entirely new since he played 3 games with me with 1 of them me being scum and him town and the rest we were both town together so I know his town meta but this is something he never done at the opening of any of the games I played with him. LOL. Sorry to break it to you but 3 games is still new. Meh fair enough. What are your thoughts on Tfrels actions so far? Are you not reading the thread? I just said I thought it was townie. Like we were just talking about that. Ops I was just a little bit to tunneled on replying to you. I do agree his behavior is most likely town to policy lynch a vet player Day 1 but it not exactly good idea to do it (shurgs) This is behavior that doesn't surprise me. I'm using this quote because I feel like it best justifies my argument for why I think he's town. Last game (this is a meta read), LS did things like this and got decimated for it. Almost got killed D1. Got killed D2. I would hope this doesn't happen again. On the argument that LS is acting more "ballsy" and that "ballsy=mafia" I would counter with that LS is learning the game and is more confident. Plus, I felt he was kind of right in sticking up for himself in saying that trfel had playing 3 games and that was less "newby" than people were giving him credit for. IF I had to pick someone to be "the towniest of the town", I would pick LS. He has generated discussion. He is acting similiarly to last game where he was town. Only way to lynch this guy D1 would be to policy lynch him for lack of experience. This read is almost baseless. Amid all the fluff the two reasons for the town read are that he generated discussion and meta. As to the generated discussion part i would say many players have done this. The first two that come to mind are Trfel and GB with both of their openings. However in the spoiler below you can see that Jarjar doesn't think that them making waves with their opening is alignment indicative but thinks the fact that LS has generated discussion is townie. The thought process here doesn't seem to line up. + Show Spoiler +On January 17 2015 18:48 jarjarbinks wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2015 15:35 Trfel wrote:GlowingBear, I'm assuming that you typed those posts over the course of reading the game? So the first things you said were not influenced on the later things? The rest of this post will be using that assumption. You read jarjarbinks D1 from the previous game (Newbie Mafia). You know that his play was miserable on D1 there as well, and he was town (his play was considerably better after D1). Someone is going to have to teach him how to play D1 (looking at you rsoultin), but I don't think I can see myself lynching him for inactivity, even if he provided a terrible excuse for it. On January 17 2015 13:45 GlowingBear wrote:On January 17 2015 10:47 LightningStrike wrote:
I don't think there is a voting thread for this game fyi guys. Also what is the BS Meter? I never heard you use this term before can you explain it please? OMG THIS IS HORRIBLE What is so horrible about this post? I mean, it is surprising that LightningStrike didn't know what rsoultin meant by BS meter, but I don't understand why that makes it a horrible post. Are you saying that LightningStrike is scum because of this, or just that the post is bad? I also noticed that you said that one of my posts was bad, and then one of my paragraphs was bad and full of fluff. Then you townread me. What is the reasoning behind this read? That I attempted to follow your advice for promoting discussion? (for the record, I fully realize that your entrance post is intended to do the exact same thing, and I tried to make a point of it, but no one else responded, so..)Also, why the emphasis on Damdred? + Show Spoiler [For GlowingBear] +For obvious reasons we can't discuss the effectiveness of my attempts to promote discussion now, but hopefully you can help me with this after the game? I bolded the part (I hope lol) of this quote that I thought summed up my thoughts on Trfel and GlowingBear. Trfel's vote and GlowingBears equally "interesting" opening is probably due to the strategy GlowingBear helped give Trfel. GlowingBear's explanation of Trfel's Vote makes this WIFOM in my eyes. They both started the way they did to make waves and nothing more. Not alignment indicative in my eyes. That being said, I'm more suspicious of GlowingBear over Trfel because of his playing experience. A counterargument to this for Trfel is his "stubbornness" on the bottom of page 8. Strange play if you were just trying to "make waves". He could just feel a necessity to defend himself, but I felt the arguments against his vote were relatively weak at the time. Saying what I said above about GlowingBear, I feel like he might want to try doing something else besides claiming VT at the beginning if that was the "making waves" play that shows balls. Us newbs killed LS for just that last game and we (mostly me) are slow learners. Also secondly on his meta point he has played one game as town and has never seen him as mafia so that isn't really justified either. Hence i think his LS read is fairly scummy So this post here, Breshke. I remember this catching my attention but then I forgot. The meta read obviously doesn't hold that much weight, though I'd think you'd have a read on LS cause you've played with him more. My question is...do you put LS' play early game in the same category as GB's and Trfel's? This almost seems like a problem with semantics, from my pov. Um im not exactly sure what you mean but i think the answer is no. GB and trefel both purposely set out to create discussion with opening posts that people would find weird and what not. Whereas LS created discussion by just being LS. The point was both sides were still creating discussion but he seemed to only be townreading LS for it. LS was also his only town read at the time and he seemed fairly certain and i couldnt understand why because as i found both his reasons lacking. I wouldn't say i have a meta read on LS i havn't played nearly enough games with him or anyone to have any meta reads. I agree that LS can easily be misread as scum when he is town but I also think that works a lot for him when he is mafia because people who have played with him before seem more inclined to town read him like I even found myself doing it this game.
You may be right. I thought he was pretty obvious scum in his scum game, personally...spent all day arguing it lol. But you may be right. I know that I get the feeling sometimes in these games with vets that newbies get picked on, because a lot of them have trouble appearing town. Like, I expect mafia to capitalize on that. (I realize I'm a newbie, too, but reads are my problem way more than getting townread, generally.)
All I'm saying is that generating discussion by posting something what is the word? Contradictory is wrong. Controversial. Posting something controversial vice pressuring and asking questions seem different enough to me to not require someone to read them the same way. That's why this post got my attention.
Do you disagree?
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On January 20 2015 13:08 geript wrote:
@Breshke. I want you to do vote analysis Pre-switch, pre claim. I'm actually interested in what you think there.
On January 19 2015 06:47 Blazinghand wrote:
Vote Count
Damdred (2): rsoultin, LightningStrike
jarjarbinks (4): Breshke, Damdred, GlowingBear, LoneMeow
GlowingBear (6): geript, TheWarWaffle, DarthPunk, jarjarbinks, The Shining, Trfel
Currently, GlowingBear is set to be lynched. Day 1 ends in at 22:00 GMT (+00:00).
Reminder to make sure to unvote before voting, if you have already voted someone.
Remember, voting is Mandatory. You may NOT abstain.
I assume this is the vote you mean geript
So the two leading wagons are (pending CC on JarJar or a doc claim) both town. I think when it is town v town mafia is more likely to spread their votes out because they don't care who gets lynched.
This is one of the reasons I want to lynch LM next because i think there is at least one scum not on the GB wagon here. If this was a final vote count rsoultin would probably look fairly bad but it isnt so i cant really look at this the same way since reads still had time to be pushed.
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On January 20 2015 13:14 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2015 13:07 Breshke wrote:On January 20 2015 12:57 rsoultin wrote:On January 18 2015 13:18 Breshke wrote:Damdred i had a look at jarjars filter and am probably agreeing with you. On January 17 2015 18:32 jarjarbinks wrote:On January 17 2015 07:44 LightningStrike wrote:On January 17 2015 07:43 DarthPunk wrote:On January 17 2015 07:41 LightningStrike wrote:On January 17 2015 07:40 DarthPunk wrote:On January 17 2015 07:38 LightningStrike wrote:
[quote]
Sorry to break it to you but Tfrel is not entirely new since he played 3 games with me with 1 of them me being scum and him town and the rest we were both town together so I know his town meta but this is something he never done at the opening of any of the games I played with him. LOL. Sorry to break it to you but 3 games is still new. Meh fair enough. What are your thoughts on Tfrels actions so far? Are you not reading the thread? I just said I thought it was townie. Like we were just talking about that. Ops I was just a little bit to tunneled on replying to you. I do agree his behavior is most likely town to policy lynch a vet player Day 1 but it not exactly good idea to do it (shurgs) This is behavior that doesn't surprise me. I'm using this quote because I feel like it best justifies my argument for why I think he's town. Last game (this is a meta read), LS did things like this and got decimated for it. Almost got killed D1. Got killed D2. I would hope this doesn't happen again. On the argument that LS is acting more "ballsy" and that "ballsy=mafia" I would counter with that LS is learning the game and is more confident. Plus, I felt he was kind of right in sticking up for himself in saying that trfel had playing 3 games and that was less "newby" than people were giving him credit for. IF I had to pick someone to be "the towniest of the town", I would pick LS. He has generated discussion. He is acting similiarly to last game where he was town. Only way to lynch this guy D1 would be to policy lynch him for lack of experience. This read is almost baseless. Amid all the fluff the two reasons for the town read are that he generated discussion and meta. As to the generated discussion part i would say many players have done this. The first two that come to mind are Trfel and GB with both of their openings. However in the spoiler below you can see that Jarjar doesn't think that them making waves with their opening is alignment indicative but thinks the fact that LS has generated discussion is townie. The thought process here doesn't seem to line up. + Show Spoiler +On January 17 2015 18:48 jarjarbinks wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2015 15:35 Trfel wrote:GlowingBear, I'm assuming that you typed those posts over the course of reading the game? So the first things you said were not influenced on the later things? The rest of this post will be using that assumption. You read jarjarbinks D1 from the previous game (Newbie Mafia). You know that his play was miserable on D1 there as well, and he was town (his play was considerably better after D1). Someone is going to have to teach him how to play D1 (looking at you rsoultin), but I don't think I can see myself lynching him for inactivity, even if he provided a terrible excuse for it. On January 17 2015 13:45 GlowingBear wrote:On January 17 2015 10:47 LightningStrike wrote:
I don't think there is a voting thread for this game fyi guys. Also what is the BS Meter? I never heard you use this term before can you explain it please? OMG THIS IS HORRIBLE What is so horrible about this post? I mean, it is surprising that LightningStrike didn't know what rsoultin meant by BS meter, but I don't understand why that makes it a horrible post. Are you saying that LightningStrike is scum because of this, or just that the post is bad? I also noticed that you said that one of my posts was bad, and then one of my paragraphs was bad and full of fluff. Then you townread me. What is the reasoning behind this read? That I attempted to follow your advice for promoting discussion? (for the record, I fully realize that your entrance post is intended to do the exact same thing, and I tried to make a point of it, but no one else responded, so..)Also, why the emphasis on Damdred? + Show Spoiler [For GlowingBear] +For obvious reasons we can't discuss the effectiveness of my attempts to promote discussion now, but hopefully you can help me with this after the game? I bolded the part (I hope lol) of this quote that I thought summed up my thoughts on Trfel and GlowingBear. Trfel's vote and GlowingBears equally "interesting" opening is probably due to the strategy GlowingBear helped give Trfel. GlowingBear's explanation of Trfel's Vote makes this WIFOM in my eyes. They both started the way they did to make waves and nothing more. Not alignment indicative in my eyes. That being said, I'm more suspicious of GlowingBear over Trfel because of his playing experience. A counterargument to this for Trfel is his "stubbornness" on the bottom of page 8. Strange play if you were just trying to "make waves". He could just feel a necessity to defend himself, but I felt the arguments against his vote were relatively weak at the time. Saying what I said above about GlowingBear, I feel like he might want to try doing something else besides claiming VT at the beginning if that was the "making waves" play that shows balls. Us newbs killed LS for just that last game and we (mostly me) are slow learners. Also secondly on his meta point he has played one game as town and has never seen him as mafia so that isn't really justified either. Hence i think his LS read is fairly scummy So this post here, Breshke. I remember this catching my attention but then I forgot. The meta read obviously doesn't hold that much weight, though I'd think you'd have a read on LS cause you've played with him more. My question is...do you put LS' play early game in the same category as GB's and Trfel's? This almost seems like a problem with semantics, from my pov. Um im not exactly sure what you mean but i think the answer is no. GB and trefel both purposely set out to create discussion with opening posts that people would find weird and what not. Whereas LS created discussion by just being LS. The point was both sides were still creating discussion but he seemed to only be townreading LS for it. LS was also his only town read at the time and he seemed fairly certain and i couldnt understand why because as i found both his reasons lacking. I wouldn't say i have a meta read on LS i havn't played nearly enough games with him or anyone to have any meta reads. I agree that LS can easily be misread as scum when he is town but I also think that works a lot for him when he is mafia because people who have played with him before seem more inclined to town read him like I even found myself doing it this game. You may be right. I thought he was pretty obvious scum in his scum game, personally...spent all day arguing it lol. But you may be right. I know that I get the feeling sometimes in these games with vets that newbies get picked on, because a lot of them have trouble appearing town. Like, I expect mafia to capitalize on that. (I realize I'm a newbie, too, but reads are my problem way more than getting townread, generally.) All I'm saying is that generating discussion by posting something what is the word? Contradictory is wrong. Controversial. Posting something controversial vice pressuring and asking questions seem different enough to me to not require someone to read them the same way. That's why this post got my attention. Do you disagree?
No you are right they are different. What LS was doing was actually pushing the game forward to scumhunt. So yeah you are right about me just arguing semantics I guess i just never really thought of it out of the context of creating discussion vs creating discussion.
Here is where i say i still don't understand how he was reading LS as his one and only town because i still think his reasons were weak because I think LS could easily ask questions as scum. That being said the read as right and LS is town the same as Jarjar so it could easily be me who has to think about stuff differently
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On January 20 2015 13:13 Damdred wrote:
Shining did a decent amount of work post flip and had some decent thoughts. Its generally a townie trait to jump straight in and get thoughts in during the night to me, some of his other things had a nice push to it as well.
Its one of my weaker town reads but I doubt I lynch him tomorrow.
I agree with the bolded part.
Out of your town reads which two are you most sure on and which two are you least sure on or even list them all if that's easier because i think you're town and that means you have to be wrong on one of them.
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Damdred (2): rsoultin, LightningStrike
jarjarbinks (4): Breshke, Damdred, GlowingBear, LoneMeow
GlowingBear (6): geript, TheWarWaffle, DarthPunk, jarjarbinks, The Shining, Trfel
This is from my point of view obviously
So this is the way its looking right now Breshke. if we go by what you say and scum are spread out that would make rsoultin the last scum for you? I would think that there might be two scum on the GB wagon pushing it over the cliff.
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On January 20 2015 13:34 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2015 13:14 rsoultin wrote:On January 20 2015 13:07 Breshke wrote:On January 20 2015 12:57 rsoultin wrote:On January 18 2015 13:18 Breshke wrote:Damdred i had a look at jarjars filter and am probably agreeing with you. On January 17 2015 18:32 jarjarbinks wrote:On January 17 2015 07:44 LightningStrike wrote:On January 17 2015 07:43 DarthPunk wrote:On January 17 2015 07:41 LightningStrike wrote:On January 17 2015 07:40 DarthPunk wrote:
[quote]
LOL. Sorry to break it to you but 3 games is still new. Meh fair enough. What are your thoughts on Tfrels actions so far? Are you not reading the thread? I just said I thought it was townie. Like we were just talking about that. Ops I was just a little bit to tunneled on replying to you. I do agree his behavior is most likely town to policy lynch a vet player Day 1 but it not exactly good idea to do it (shurgs) This is behavior that doesn't surprise me. I'm using this quote because I feel like it best justifies my argument for why I think he's town. Last game (this is a meta read), LS did things like this and got decimated for it. Almost got killed D1. Got killed D2. I would hope this doesn't happen again. On the argument that LS is acting more "ballsy" and that "ballsy=mafia" I would counter with that LS is learning the game and is more confident. Plus, I felt he was kind of right in sticking up for himself in saying that trfel had playing 3 games and that was less "newby" than people were giving him credit for. IF I had to pick someone to be "the towniest of the town", I would pick LS. He has generated discussion. He is acting similiarly to last game where he was town. Only way to lynch this guy D1 would be to policy lynch him for lack of experience. This read is almost baseless. Amid all the fluff the two reasons for the town read are that he generated discussion and meta. As to the generated discussion part i would say many players have done this. The first two that come to mind are Trfel and GB with both of their openings. However in the spoiler below you can see that Jarjar doesn't think that them making waves with their opening is alignment indicative but thinks the fact that LS has generated discussion is townie. The thought process here doesn't seem to line up. + Show Spoiler +On January 17 2015 18:48 jarjarbinks wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2015 15:35 Trfel wrote:GlowingBear, I'm assuming that you typed those posts over the course of reading the game? So the first things you said were not influenced on the later things? The rest of this post will be using that assumption. You read jarjarbinks D1 from the previous game (Newbie Mafia). You know that his play was miserable on D1 there as well, and he was town (his play was considerably better after D1). Someone is going to have to teach him how to play D1 (looking at you rsoultin), but I don't think I can see myself lynching him for inactivity, even if he provided a terrible excuse for it. On January 17 2015 13:45 GlowingBear wrote:On January 17 2015 10:47 LightningStrike wrote:
I don't think there is a voting thread for this game fyi guys. Also what is the BS Meter? I never heard you use this term before can you explain it please? OMG THIS IS HORRIBLE What is so horrible about this post? I mean, it is surprising that LightningStrike didn't know what rsoultin meant by BS meter, but I don't understand why that makes it a horrible post. Are you saying that LightningStrike is scum because of this, or just that the post is bad? I also noticed that you said that one of my posts was bad, and then one of my paragraphs was bad and full of fluff. Then you townread me. What is the reasoning behind this read? That I attempted to follow your advice for promoting discussion? (for the record, I fully realize that your entrance post is intended to do the exact same thing, and I tried to make a point of it, but no one else responded, so..)Also, why the emphasis on Damdred? + Show Spoiler [For GlowingBear] +For obvious reasons we can't discuss the effectiveness of my attempts to promote discussion now, but hopefully you can help me with this after the game? I bolded the part (I hope lol) of this quote that I thought summed up my thoughts on Trfel and GlowingBear. Trfel's vote and GlowingBears equally "interesting" opening is probably due to the strategy GlowingBear helped give Trfel. GlowingBear's explanation of Trfel's Vote makes this WIFOM in my eyes. They both started the way they did to make waves and nothing more. Not alignment indicative in my eyes. That being said, I'm more suspicious of GlowingBear over Trfel because of his playing experience. A counterargument to this for Trfel is his "stubbornness" on the bottom of page 8. Strange play if you were just trying to "make waves". He could just feel a necessity to defend himself, but I felt the arguments against his vote were relatively weak at the time. Saying what I said above about GlowingBear, I feel like he might want to try doing something else besides claiming VT at the beginning if that was the "making waves" play that shows balls. Us newbs killed LS for just that last game and we (mostly me) are slow learners. Also secondly on his meta point he has played one game as town and has never seen him as mafia so that isn't really justified either. Hence i think his LS read is fairly scummy So this post here, Breshke. I remember this catching my attention but then I forgot. The meta read obviously doesn't hold that much weight, though I'd think you'd have a read on LS cause you've played with him more. My question is...do you put LS' play early game in the same category as GB's and Trfel's? This almost seems like a problem with semantics, from my pov. Um im not exactly sure what you mean but i think the answer is no. GB and trefel both purposely set out to create discussion with opening posts that people would find weird and what not. Whereas LS created discussion by just being LS. The point was both sides were still creating discussion but he seemed to only be townreading LS for it. LS was also his only town read at the time and he seemed fairly certain and i couldnt understand why because as i found both his reasons lacking. I wouldn't say i have a meta read on LS i havn't played nearly enough games with him or anyone to have any meta reads. I agree that LS can easily be misread as scum when he is town but I also think that works a lot for him when he is mafia because people who have played with him before seem more inclined to town read him like I even found myself doing it this game. You may be right. I thought he was pretty obvious scum in his scum game, personally...spent all day arguing it lol. But you may be right. I know that I get the feeling sometimes in these games with vets that newbies get picked on, because a lot of them have trouble appearing town. Like, I expect mafia to capitalize on that. (I realize I'm a newbie, too, but reads are my problem way more than getting townread, generally.) All I'm saying is that generating discussion by posting something what is the word? Contradictory is wrong. Controversial. Posting something controversial vice pressuring and asking questions seem different enough to me to not require someone to read them the same way. That's why this post got my attention. Do you disagree? No you are right they are different. What LS was doing was actually pushing the game forward to scumhunt. So yeah you are right about me just arguing semantics I guess i just never really thought of it out of the context of creating discussion vs creating discussion. Here is where i say i still don't understand how he was reading LS as his one and only town because i still think his reasons were weak because I think LS could easily ask questions as scum. That being said the read as right and LS is town the same as Jarjar so it could easily be me who has to think about stuff differently
You may want to reread? He said LS was towniest of town, at least in the posts you quoted.
At any rate, I find tfel's hard defense of JJB at EoD and my brother only really coming into the thread to say he was roleblocked, then breezing out again, more eeeeeh than I do him concentrating on trying to read players he's played with before. But that's just me. Is it strange that I was more confident he was town before he claimed? lol Un-CCd though so not worth thinking too much on.
Hopefully he'll come back.
Thanks for clarifying.
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On January 20 2015 13:38 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2015 13:13 Damdred wrote:
Shining did a decent amount of work post flip and had some decent thoughts. Its generally a townie trait to jump straight in and get thoughts in during the night to me, some of his other things had a nice push to it as well.
Its one of my weaker town reads but I doubt I lynch him tomorrow.
I agree with the bolded part. Out of your town reads which two are you most sure on and which two are you least sure on or even list them all if that's easier because i think you're town and that means you have to be wrong on one of them.
Most sure of Rsoultin and Geript at this point, least sure of Breshke and Dp. Shining is somewhere inbetween the two sets.
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On January 20 2015 13:40 Damdred wrote:
Damdred (2): rsoultin, LightningStrike
jarjarbinks (4): Breshke, Damdred, GlowingBear, LoneMeow
GlowingBear (6): geript, TheWarWaffle, DarthPunk, jarjarbinks, The Shining, Trfel
This is from my point of view obviously
So this is the way its looking right now Breshke. if we go by what you say and scum are spread out that would make rsoultin the last scum for you? I would think that there might be two scum on the GB wagon pushing it over the cliff.
When i say spread out i don't mean they all have to be on different people. I think it is likely there is two scum on GB because i think you and rsoultin are town.
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EPT
