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I strongly disagree with this change. I don't even follow DotA but honestly this just sucks.
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On May 12 2014 09:39 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 09:22 FiWiFaKi wrote:On May 12 2014 09:10 r.Evo wrote:On May 12 2014 09:02 Saryph wrote:On May 12 2014 09:01 Dodgin wrote:On May 12 2014 08:58 Saryph wrote:On May 12 2014 08:55 r.Evo wrote:
I think this change is sad as hell, it feels like being thrown out of a site that I'm visiting since a decade for its content and community.
If I want exclusive Dota 2 content I can visit /r/dota2 or one of the dozen other sites that are dedicated to it. But the reason I didn't do that over visiting the tl.net dota 2 subforum was because it was so much more than that and because it was part of one huge, awesome thing that's been around since ages.
Now, since it's about two different sites, I'm forced to open something other than teamliquid.net anyway if I want pure content. As for the community aspect... it's highly likely that there will be hundreds and thousands of people with zero connection to the people on teamliquid.net - which turns liquiddota.com into just another place for dota 2 content.
To me, personally, teamliquid used to be a homepage in the most literal sense there is. With this change a part of the family living in that home got kicked out to do their own thing and to build their own place. Yeah, I feel the same way. Especially after Hot bid posted that the dota 2 forum wasn't performing well enough for you guys. Kicked to the curb.  Do you happen to have a link to this? This thread. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/tl-community/450263-introducing-liquiddota?page=8#160 Dota was not growing on TL (at least not at the rate we consider acceptable) and the reason for this is because our Dota audience is just people that already use TL, not new users. That quote specifically makes me really damn sad. To me that makes this whole thing a pure business decision with everything that implies. Need more unique clicks. Yep, not what Nazgul was saying teamliquid was saying they are all about 3 years ago. Remember when we were told 4 years ago or so that this website would never have advertisements? Money corrupts, even the ones who seemed for a long time to be uncorruptible. Please find me that quote we have had (minimal) advertisements since the first day this site existed in 2002. This is seriously some borderline posting.
Looking at featured news, the second oldest article I've been able to find you posting was:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/146249-new-look-same-soul
And I remember around this time being that turning point with more sponsored threads, the sidebar advertisements etc. And initially took your message to heart, but then I noticed things happening like end of all those common BW events by teamliquid, liquibition, TLattack, etc. Everyone reacted really positively, I reacted pretty positively, but I do remember being a little bit upset because it was going against some things that teamliquid said it wouldn't become.
I don't have a link, and I'm struggling to begin of thinking of a way I could find it, however I was likely being over sensational with my statement and it likely wasn't a direct quote per say, so my sincerest apologies for that. What I am saying though is that back in 2009~ the site had 4000~ active users online on average, and it did run fully on volunteers and passion of the staff, writers, translators, etc. And then with the changes there were more advertisements, more shop items, TL+, sponsorships... And truthfully, the amount of content appeared to be relatively similar. The big changes were Liquipedia and the TL Pro Team, while I think some features were removed like all TL hosted events, power rank, and many stayed the same.
I did mean to misquote you, and I can edit it out if you wish. I was just trying to state that there has been a shift in the priorities of the website (however minor), to a more business model while back in the day there was extreme emphasis given on the dedication and passion of the users, then shifted to a model where some money is earned while still reassuring us that teamliquid is run purely on dedication and passion, and now we aren't really told that anymore. I suppose my post was more due to me being upset with the changes due to what I've seen teamliquid be before, rather than to be an attack on teamliquid, or rather Nazgul specifically, which is not what I intended it to be.
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About the family feel, it depends where you post.
-If you post in the Game of Thrones thread, you mostly know the people who post there, you get to know their personalities.
-If you post in the Formula 1 thread, you know who likes which racer, you get to know the posters.
-If you post in a UFC thread, you know the people that will be posting, you know who likes UFC, you know who is fun to discuss with and who is not.
-If you post in tech help, you know the trusty people like skyR who will come help you.
-If you read blogs, you know what kind of blogs to expect from who. Ooh, Food Porn or let's look at a Glider video?
-Tour de France? Where in hell can I go to in Canada to discuss Tour de France with people that aren't so crazy about cycling that they've given their bicycle a middle name?
I'm sure there are many threads like this that I don't visit. But the teamliquid community, I can discuss a majority of my passions on this site, while still enjoying Dota. Now if I go to the Dota site, I lose all that, and if Dota will get it's own duplicate threads for everything, I only have half as many people to discuss UFC, Formula 1, GoT, and whatever else I'm into.
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Braavos36362 Posts
On May 12 2014 10:10 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 09:39 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On May 12 2014 09:22 FiWiFaKi wrote:On May 12 2014 09:10 r.Evo wrote:On May 12 2014 09:02 Saryph wrote:On May 12 2014 09:01 Dodgin wrote:On May 12 2014 08:58 Saryph wrote:On May 12 2014 08:55 r.Evo wrote:
I think this change is sad as hell, it feels like being thrown out of a site that I'm visiting since a decade for its content and community.
If I want exclusive Dota 2 content I can visit /r/dota2 or one of the dozen other sites that are dedicated to it. But the reason I didn't do that over visiting the tl.net dota 2 subforum was because it was so much more than that and because it was part of one huge, awesome thing that's been around since ages.
Now, since it's about two different sites, I'm forced to open something other than teamliquid.net anyway if I want pure content. As for the community aspect... it's highly likely that there will be hundreds and thousands of people with zero connection to the people on teamliquid.net - which turns liquiddota.com into just another place for dota 2 content.
To me, personally, teamliquid used to be a homepage in the most literal sense there is. With this change a part of the family living in that home got kicked out to do their own thing and to build their own place. Yeah, I feel the same way. Especially after Hot bid posted that the dota 2 forum wasn't performing well enough for you guys. Kicked to the curb. Do you happen to have a link to this? This thread. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/tl-community/450263-introducing-liquiddota?page=8#160 Dota was not growing on TL (at least not at the rate we consider acceptable) and the reason for this is because our Dota audience is just people that already use TL, not new users. That quote specifically makes me really damn sad. To me that makes this whole thing a pure business decision with everything that implies. Need more unique clicks. Yep, not what Nazgul was saying teamliquid was saying they are all about 3 years ago. Remember when we were told 4 years ago or so that this website would never have advertisements? Money corrupts, even the ones who seemed for a long time to be uncorruptible. Please find me that quote we have had (minimal) advertisements since the first day this site existed in 2002. This is seriously some borderline posting. Looking at featured news, the second oldest article I've been able to find you posting was: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/146249-new-look-same-soulAnd I remember around this time being that turning point with more sponsored threads, the sidebar advertisements etc. And initially took your message to heart, but then I noticed things happening like end of all those common BW events by teamliquid, liquibition, TLattack, etc. Everyone reacted really positively, I reacted pretty positively, but I do remember being a little bit upset because it was going against some things that teamliquid said it wouldn't become. I don't have a link, and I'm struggling to begin of thinking of a way I could find it, however I was likely being over sensational with my statement and it likely wasn't a direct quote per say, so my sincerest apologies for that. What I am saying though is that back in 2009~ the site had 4000~ active users online on average, and it did run fully on volunteers and passion of the staff, writers, translators, etc. And then with the changes there were more advertisements, more shop items, TL+, sponsorships... And truthfully, the amount of content appeared to be relatively similar. The big changes were Liquipedia and the TL Pro Team, while I think some features were removed like all TL hosted events, power rank, and many stayed the same. I did mean to misquote you, and I can edit it out if you wish. I was just trying to state that there has been a shift in the priorities of the website (however minor), to a more business model while back in the day there was extreme emphasis given on the dedication and passion of the users, then shifted to a model where some money is earned while still reassuring us that teamliquid is run purely on dedication and passion, and now we aren't really told that anymore. I suppose my post was more due to me being upset with the changes due to what I've seen teamliquid be before, rather than to be an attack on teamliquid, or rather Nazgul specifically, which is not what I intended it to be.
You may see the status quo of Dota 2 as acceptable, but the staff and a lot of users see a sub-par experience with very little possibility for anything but a slow slide and eventual death of the interest in the game on TL. The calendar wasn't compatible, the icons, the atmosphere wasn't welcoming, and there's a lot of things that improve with the new site. It makes the overall experience much better for a Dota 2 fan, and it returns TL to its roots, a StarCraft site.
You may see a split in community but the way Dota was going, this is something that had to happen. I understand you are upset and disagree with the decision we've made. However, calling what happened a "purely business decision" and saying stuff like "money corrupts" is just entirely inaccurate and unreasonable. LiquidDota has massive improvements and makes the experience far superior for a Dota 2 fan.
We can look into the shared community forums/threads, and hopefully that can remedy some of the issues you have with it. But in the long run this is something that needs to happen for Dota 2 on TL to survive and grow.
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28076 Posts
On May 12 2014 09:39 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 09:22 FiWiFaKi wrote:On May 12 2014 09:10 r.Evo wrote:On May 12 2014 09:02 Saryph wrote:On May 12 2014 09:01 Dodgin wrote:On May 12 2014 08:58 Saryph wrote:On May 12 2014 08:55 r.Evo wrote:
I think this change is sad as hell, it feels like being thrown out of a site that I'm visiting since a decade for its content and community.
If I want exclusive Dota 2 content I can visit /r/dota2 or one of the dozen other sites that are dedicated to it. But the reason I didn't do that over visiting the tl.net dota 2 subforum was because it was so much more than that and because it was part of one huge, awesome thing that's been around since ages.
Now, since it's about two different sites, I'm forced to open something other than teamliquid.net anyway if I want pure content. As for the community aspect... it's highly likely that there will be hundreds and thousands of people with zero connection to the people on teamliquid.net - which turns liquiddota.com into just another place for dota 2 content.
To me, personally, teamliquid used to be a homepage in the most literal sense there is. With this change a part of the family living in that home got kicked out to do their own thing and to build their own place. Yeah, I feel the same way. Especially after Hot bid posted that the dota 2 forum wasn't performing well enough for you guys. Kicked to the curb. Do you happen to have a link to this? This thread. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/tl-community/450263-introducing-liquiddota?page=8#160 Dota was not growing on TL (at least not at the rate we consider acceptable) and the reason for this is because our Dota audience is just people that already use TL, not new users. That quote specifically makes me really damn sad. To me that makes this whole thing a pure business decision with everything that implies. Need more unique clicks. Yep, not what Nazgul was saying teamliquid was saying they are all about 3 years ago. Remember when we were told 4 years ago or so that this website would never have advertisements? Money corrupts, even the ones who seemed for a long time to be uncorruptible. Please find me that quote we have had (minimal) advertisements since the first day this site existed in 2002. This is seriously some borderline posting.
I guess wanting to make a living off doing something you love is being corrupt
btw I hope people stop feeling like they are getting booted off TL. TL is still the same community and everyone can still be here, lol 
And Dota 2 wasn't shafted, it was moved the long run betterment of both communities.
edit: meh, refter to HB's post above mine he's more eloquent and cute and in depth.
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Even if I wish TL the best, I'm pretty sure making a Dota2 website won't change much about the active users pool, but maybe even lowering it. I'm pretty sure lot of people just browse Dota when there is not much in the SC2 side, but if they have to go to another site to do so. meh.
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On May 12 2014 10:18 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 10:10 FiWiFaKi wrote:On May 12 2014 09:39 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On May 12 2014 09:22 FiWiFaKi wrote:On May 12 2014 09:10 r.Evo wrote:On May 12 2014 09:02 Saryph wrote:On May 12 2014 09:01 Dodgin wrote:On May 12 2014 08:58 Saryph wrote:On May 12 2014 08:55 r.Evo wrote:
I think this change is sad as hell, it feels like being thrown out of a site that I'm visiting since a decade for its content and community.
If I want exclusive Dota 2 content I can visit /r/dota2 or one of the dozen other sites that are dedicated to it. But the reason I didn't do that over visiting the tl.net dota 2 subforum was because it was so much more than that and because it was part of one huge, awesome thing that's been around since ages.
Now, since it's about two different sites, I'm forced to open something other than teamliquid.net anyway if I want pure content. As for the community aspect... it's highly likely that there will be hundreds and thousands of people with zero connection to the people on teamliquid.net - which turns liquiddota.com into just another place for dota 2 content.
To me, personally, teamliquid used to be a homepage in the most literal sense there is. With this change a part of the family living in that home got kicked out to do their own thing and to build their own place. Yeah, I feel the same way. Especially after Hot bid posted that the dota 2 forum wasn't performing well enough for you guys. Kicked to the curb. Do you happen to have a link to this? This thread. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/tl-community/450263-introducing-liquiddota?page=8#160 Dota was not growing on TL (at least not at the rate we consider acceptable) and the reason for this is because our Dota audience is just people that already use TL, not new users. That quote specifically makes me really damn sad. To me that makes this whole thing a pure business decision with everything that implies. Need more unique clicks. Yep, not what Nazgul was saying teamliquid was saying they are all about 3 years ago. Remember when we were told 4 years ago or so that this website would never have advertisements? Money corrupts, even the ones who seemed for a long time to be uncorruptible. Please find me that quote we have had (minimal) advertisements since the first day this site existed in 2002. This is seriously some borderline posting. Looking at featured news, the second oldest article I've been able to find you posting was: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/news-archive/146249-new-look-same-soulAnd I remember around this time being that turning point with more sponsored threads, the sidebar advertisements etc. And initially took your message to heart, but then I noticed things happening like end of all those common BW events by teamliquid, liquibition, TLattack, etc. Everyone reacted really positively, I reacted pretty positively, but I do remember being a little bit upset because it was going against some things that teamliquid said it wouldn't become. I don't have a link, and I'm struggling to begin of thinking of a way I could find it, however I was likely being over sensational with my statement and it likely wasn't a direct quote per say, so my sincerest apologies for that. What I am saying though is that back in 2009~ the site had 4000~ active users online on average, and it did run fully on volunteers and passion of the staff, writers, translators, etc. And then with the changes there were more advertisements, more shop items, TL+, sponsorships... And truthfully, the amount of content appeared to be relatively similar. The big changes were Liquipedia and the TL Pro Team, while I think some features were removed like all TL hosted events, power rank, and many stayed the same. I did mean to misquote you, and I can edit it out if you wish. I was just trying to state that there has been a shift in the priorities of the website (however minor), to a more business model while back in the day there was extreme emphasis given on the dedication and passion of the users, then shifted to a model where some money is earned while still reassuring us that teamliquid is run purely on dedication and passion, and now we aren't really told that anymore. I suppose my post was more due to me being upset with the changes due to what I've seen teamliquid be before, rather than to be an attack on teamliquid, or rather Nazgul specifically, which is not what I intended it to be. + Show Spoiler +You may see the status quo of Dota 2 as acceptable, but the staff and a lot of users see a sub-par experience with very little possibility for anything but a slow slide and eventual death of the interest in the game on TL. The calendar wasn't compatible, the icons, the atmosphere wasn't welcoming, and there's a lot of things that improve with the new site. It makes the overall experience much better for a Dota 2 fan, and it returns TL to its roots, a StarCraft site.
You may see a split in community but the way Dota was going, this is something that had to happen. I understand you are upset and disagree with the decision we've made. However, calling what happened a "purely business decision" and saying stuff like "money corrupts" is just entirely inaccurate and unreasonable. LiquidDota has massive improvements and makes the experience far superior for a Dota 2 fan. We can look into the shared community forums/threads, and hopefully that can remedy some of the issues you have with it. But in the long run this is something that needs to happen for Dota 2 on TL to survive and grow.
Please do. Liquiddota looks so empty compared to TL and looking at liquidhearth it won't change.
The missing community section is the main reason it feels like being kicked off TL and if it would be there I probably would've voted more positively on that poll and so would others I think.
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On May 12 2014 09:37 FiWiFaKi wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 12 2014 09:27 The_Templar wrote:
There are filters to get rid of stuff dota and non-dota people alike don't like and the same people would get introduced to LiquidDota or Liquid, so why bother moving everything? Because of this: On May 12 2014 08:05 Zealously wrote:So, as promised, here is a summary of what the interested staff members had to say about the idea of moving Dota2 to its own site: - The issue of too much content: Yes, filters exist. But as a rule of thumb, I think it's fair to say that the vast majority of TL's visitors do not know of or do not use filters, and first-time visitors were very likely to feel overwhelmed by the abundance of content - with Dota and two Starcrafts, there was so much of it that it became periodically hard to navigate. It is true that filters may be the most comfortable solution for established members, but if you come to a new site you typically don't want to go through the trouble of finding a filter function before you start browsing through the stuff you're interested in. With Liquiddota, TL goes back to being a source of Starcraft news, and thus more 'welcoming' for Starcraft fans visiting the site for the first time, whereas Liquiddota becomes a dedicated Dota site that runs no risk of confusing new visitors.
- Competition: Most of TL's competitors are dedicated sites. This ties in with the previous point in that a site covering many different games will be, in general, less attractive to a dedicated fan than a site covering your game specifically. The quality of content can be the same, or even slightly worse, on a dedicated site, and the fan that cares only about that single game is still more likely to go there, both for the sense of community and because it feels more natural to go to LiquidHearth than it does to go to LiquidSeveralGamesYouDontLikeAndHearthstone. The idea is that a dedicated site will offer more competition and attract more visitors than TL's Dota section did.
Also, I think it's fair to say that the Dota community as a whole views Teamliquid as "the Starcraft site that also does Dota" rather than "a Dota site like any other", and not without reason. Below is a quote by monk on the subject when Nazgul first brought up the idea of a separate Dota site.
+ Show Spoiler +On February 13 2014 20:44 monk wrote:
The way I see TL Dota right now is the same way I view Gosugamers HS coverage. Besides LH, Gosugamers actually has the best HS articles on the web right now. However, even though you might read a HS article by them linked on reddit, it's very unlikely that you'll stay on their site. There's just way too many games covered there and everything is impossible to find, especially HS content. As a result, there's no HS community there and their forums are barren. The same problem seems to be happening for Dota 2 on TL. As far as I can tell or what I've heard is that we have some best articles on the web, but articles aren't what are going to draw users to stay on the site if everything is so difficult to find and there isn't a sense of shared community
Relating to that, I've noticed that Dota has way fewer, if any, cool ancillary features compared to what SC2 currently has on TL or what LH is planned to have. SC2 currently has TLPD, FPL, and Liquibet. LH is planned to have a Deck Builder, Arena Simulator, and Puzzle Maker. To the best of my knowledge, Dota has none of that. I don't know the particular reasons for that but if Dota had its own site, there'd at least be additional room to put these features.
Although the HS move to LH was a much more drastic change than the proposed Dota move, I already see a lot of cool things resulting from it. I see 1 post users posting all the time. There's also a ton of HS blogs where there weren't before (we average about 1 blog a day). We almost never had HS blogs on TL and looking over blogs now, I don't think I see a single Dota 2 blog.
Speaking from experience working on LH, I enjoy working on the site a lot more and there's just so many more opportunities to display content. For example, we have a featured video everyday. In addition, because we don't have to compete with another game, each article we put out can get a lot more time on the front page. All in all, I think a new TL Dota site is a great idea and it'll be great for both the Dota staff and the building of a Liquid Dota community.
- With LiquidHearth in mind:
On May 12 2014 07:59 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 07:20 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Was hoping mod/staff would be able to answer....
How successful would you guys rate the splitting of Hearthstone from teamliquid? It was successful. It definitely wouldn't have worked putting it on TL frontpage and having HS, StarCraft, Dota, etc on it. If you were to compare LH to the option of keeping it on TL, it's not really even close in terms of how it can grow. Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 07:37 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I mean it's hard to say if teamliquid has been making good decisions recently, as their viewership has dropped to around 50% of what it was a year ago (going off of "active", as well as the activity I've been seeing). The real question is whether this will continue that streak or change it. This can be a really big nail in the coffin for teamliquid if it doesn't work out. In terms of traffic, viewership across all StarCraft sites has declined since 2012. I don't think this has much to do with any decisions we're making, it's just a reality in the scene. Dota was not growing on TL (at least not at the rate we consider acceptable) and the reason for this is because our Dota audience is just people that already use TL, not new users. This is because you have a site with a calendar not tailored to the game, with StarCraft icons, etc. It's not a very welcoming place for a Dota fan. This move at minimum will give our Dota staff and community a chance to grow. Status quo simply wasn't cutting it.
- Front page oversaturation: The separation of Hearthstone and Teamliquid alleviated this somewhat, but with potentially three games on the front page for some fans, it was impossible for the content we churned out to receive the attention it deserves. On some days, the articles on the front page would all be replaced within 24 hours, thus decreasing the amount of views that the different writer groups create. TL as a site wants to create great coverage for several games, and on the whole that's something TL succeeds in doing, but when something like 6 or 7 articles all go up within the span of a day, the content suddenly becomes overwhelming. For a fan interested in more than one game, there's suddenly too much, and too little attention given to the people that put hours in to create that content.
On that note, though this is a minor issue, there is some overlap once The International starts, and that tournament drowns out everything else for the duration of it due to its incredible magnitude. Remember last year, when WCS' Regional finals all took place during TI3? Do you remember the amount of content put out pretty much every hour? I swear at least one of the editors had a heart attack as a result.
- The issue of separation: A lot of people seem to feel like Liquiddota shatters the TL community, and I suppose in a way that is true. But the consensus was, and this is how I feel as well, that simply breaking TL down further with more and more sub-forums and sub-communities within a larger whole does not significantly aid the creation of a "community". The people that hang out in General tend to hang out in General, while those who frequented Dota did so and little else. Of course, there are a select few veteran members that browsed most of the site, but they are in the minority. The creation of Liquiddota is an attempt to create a Dota community with minor ties to TL (Starcraft), not simply a relocation of the site's Dota fans to another URL.
The purpose of the new site is to build a community for Dota fans much like other significant Dota sites available, and create a community just like a community was built around Brood War when TL first launched in 2002. People will come to Liquiddota as Dota fans and to Teamliquid as Starcraft fans, and those who really care about both games have the option to utilize the features including shared PMs and the like and visit both sites. It will be inconvenient for some users, yes, but long-term, Liquiddota allows for much more growth than cramming several games into the same site ever did.
- The "family" factor: One issue that was brought up was the concern that the different communities will feel much more separate now than as a single site, thus losing some of the "Family"-feeling that was present during the site's earlier years. Especially for those veterans that frequented multiple sub-forums, I see how this may be a concern. But if you feel like this is an issue, keep in mind that TL is massive now compared to five-or-so years ago. That sense of a tight-knit community was already half-gone with just how large the site has become. It wasn't possible, even for those who spend four hours a day on TL like some of us do, to know everyone byname.
Quote on the subject below:
+ Show Spoiler +On February 16 2014 06:26 2Pacalypse- wrote:
I think you may be overselling the "family" factor. This may have been true once in the old days of BW, but now TL has become too big to have that feeling across the site. For example, and don't take this the wrong way, but I have never seen your account until a couple of days ago and you're a staff user with 9k posts.
The point is that you're much likely to have that feeling of family with people who share your interests. This is why I'm against sharing the non-game specific forums across the sites. I think our main focus should be in attracting new users and building new sub-communities, and best way to achieve this is by letting community creates itself and not by us micromanaging it.
- On the subject of having shared General/Community sub-forums: It's been brought up earlier in this thread, and it was brought up in the staff forums as well. I think the response was generally positive, though there are technical quirks to work out before it can happen. I think it is going to happen eventually though, provided the technical issues can be solved.
To be fair, that is a good write of Zealously, I appreciate the effort, the reasoning makes sense I suppose, and I do see the perspective of website affiliates more clearly now. The big thing for me is like you mentioned, the certain forums aren't included on the site. Once those are included when the kinks in programming that are resolved, I think I'll be neutral about the change, and see what will come from it. The Calendar looks good, but I'm curious to see what other new features will come from it to be able to put it at that benchmark for Dota communities. Only time will tell, I personally don't think the LiquidHearth website was necessarily a success or failure, Dota 2 is a little bit different, so it may play out differently. I really wish it was possible to somehow have the sites so integrated and customizable that I could add components from each site into the sidebar and into the website. That would be really cool and completely revolutionize the esport community and make you completely stand out from the rest of the sites on the web. Teamliquid, the esport website network... Seriously, think about it!
I can at least talk about one of the aspects to why this move was chosen. Disregarding any personal attachments or feelings that one might have and looking at how TL has functioned over the past few years, the frontpage and site layout in general has increasingly become a problematic area regarding the featuring, promoting and aggregating of scene-specific content.
The problem rests in that TL has been around forever, and that is incredibly unique and amazing because it has a robust SC community and also a larger growing esports (or just gaming) community as well. But what makes this amazing, also makes the exact content strategy of trying to balance the developed community and 3-4 (or 6) separate esports scenes an incredibly difficult task. Do you use content filters as TL did a few years back? Do you design your page functionally to silo by globalized tabs? Do you move your content off the main hub into affiliate areas? Do you sacrifice the forum sidebar because the room for all of the content that your community creates is suffering, or unable to further develop? What about restructuring how you handle events so that what you really want is where you want it? Whatever you land on (and all of the above are theoretical questions), there will always be a downside to part of the userbase, which both unfortunate and unavoidable. That's not to say that we don't give a shit because let me emphasize again the very long staff discussion Zealousy mentioned, but we also spent a lot of time trying to really build something that we all can be proud of, and would service dota really well.
So maybe that doesn't help where you feel about the change, but where do we go from here? If you have concerns I think it's great you are voicing them, and as a UX professional (god i hate that umbrella description) I do want to hear how you (or whomever) experience what we've tried really hard to build for them (or how things have changed for them) so that we can help to better the community as a whole.
On a personal note, I my personal relationship with TL is that it's a big family and I definitely don't want to lose that aspect as that's primarily why I've stayed here for the last number of years. I'd like to hope that the community forums + blogs could be shared, but this a big question that r1ch has to investigate, and is not at all simple to answer. 
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I know it's not that important but is there a way to combine/share post count for TL and liquiddota?
Yeah I'm the kind of person that likes to see my post count grow haha...
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On May 12 2014 10:03 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 10:01 eX Killy wrote:
how do we get to the community forums from liquiddota? u open up another tab, and come back to teamliquid.
thats too bad
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could we have the " Hide Spoilers" thing in there too?
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Disclaimer, i've only been around since sc2, and I mostly lurk, but i think this is a bad choice and need to say something.
I was a master sc2 player (3K+ games) and went to every anaheim MLG and have visited TL multiple times a day since 2010. But, If it were not for dota, I would not follow esports anymore (sc2 ded game lel). And i would never have found dota without TL.
Unfortunately for TL, the only things it has going for it in the dota realm is the team liquid team and its got community. It's not just not a main site for dota. Your schedule sucks and you dont have all the tourney streams all the time (reddit's is way better). You dont have the main dota forums (joindota & nadota) and you dont have the main newsite (reddit). Splitting off to a new site that appears barren and is attempting to replace these established sites does not seem like it'll fix this.
Yet I still come here just as much as ever despite not reading pretty much any sc2 content besides big features. All the general threads, regular bloggers, and other game/interest threads keep me coming back. Additionally I have been starting to pay attention to your smash content and forum.
Nevertheless, I don't believe i will continue to check the general TL if the dota content is moved to a different page. There just wont be the incentive to swing by, and i wont check all the familiar threads or read the top news articles or interesting looking feature for sc2 or smash. If there are more people than just me, i cannot imagine that you will retain the eyeballs or the sense of community that makes this place so neat. I hope for the best of TL, i just don't think this is it.
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On May 12 2014 10:45 JP Dayne wrote:
could we have the " Hide Spoilers" thing in there too?
We have had detailed meetings on this and decided to not use them. I can elaborate as to why if you want an explanation?
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Won't lie, I prefer it integrated :/
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Is working on connecting the dota site to the team liquid community a priority for you guys? Or back burner?
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Hmm, hard to say how I feel about this. I almost exclusively care about Dota anowadays but like having bw heritage and occasionally seeing the something on the sidebar relating to non-Dota that still interests me is nice.
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I love TL, but i dislike this decision. there aren't many e-sports news anyway, why spread it so thin? i already lost touch with hearthstone and now this.
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So much TL bashing when they're doing the absolute right thing is saddening(
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On May 12 2014 10:21 TheEmulator wrote:btw I hope people stop feeling like they are getting booted off TL. TL is still the same community and everyone can still be here, lol
That's the thing though, me personally I won't visit multiple sites. I will choose one or the other or neither honestly. I know that sounds like over exaggeration and being a baby buts its just the way I'm used to it. I open TL, get my dota stuff, some SC stuff, maybe check out the other games section.
On May 12 2014 10:51 TheEmulator wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2014 10:45 JP Dayne wrote:
could we have the " Hide Spoilers" thing in there too? We have had detailed meetings on this and decided to not use them. I can elaborate as to why if you want an explanation?
Also I wouldn't mind hearing that, I love the hide spoilers feature and now it's gone.
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I started here for the StarCraft and then I ended here for the Dota. I stopped visiting this site much at all recently, but I think with Dota having its own site and hopefully more content being pushed out, I'll be visiting LiquidDota a lot.
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EPT
