EPTSo now they bring the turret armor back to only 8 mins and wei says that is also inelegant and a bad change.
Good to see TLGD alive and well.
[Patch 4.1] Season 4 Start General Discussion - Page 229
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
So now they bring the turret armor back to only 8 mins and wei says that is also inelegant and a bad change. Good to see TLGD alive and well. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On February 11 2014 03:32 Slayer91 wrote: well if they are found riot can implement them elegance is an ideal, not necessarily the best thing. Kung fu is elegant, but MMA is just huge dudes tackling each other and wrestling most of the time. As a fan of MMA, worst explanation ever. Wrestling has lot of elegance when done properly. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
you could consider the tower changes elegant because they fix problems without affecting gameplay directly simply altering the defensive advantage. | ||
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On February 11 2014 03:34 wei2coolman wrote: As a fan of MMA, worst explanation ever. Wrestling has lot of elegance when done properly. So basically instead of huge dudes tackling each other, they're huge dudes dry humping each other on the ground. | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
On February 11 2014 03:36 Roffles wrote: So basically instead of huge dudes tackling each other, they're huge dudes dry humping each other on the ground. Some people have different standards of elegant | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On February 11 2014 03:33 Ketara wrote: Last patch they buffed turret armor from only lasting 8 minutes to being permanent and wei said it was too big a buff, inelegant and a bad change. So now they bring the turret armor back to only 8 mins and wei says that is also inelegant and a bad change. Good to see TLGD alive and well. First it was having turret armor increased for early game only, was inelegant. Adds odd conditional change based on time that isn't intuitive. Everything else in the game gets stronger as the game goes on (minions/baron/dragon/champions/jungle camps), but for turrets to do the opposite is not intuitive to the rest of the game design. 2nd change was to remove bonus armor, to add -20 auto attack dmg to top and middle turret only. Reduction of flat damage is not intuitive, since it's another layer of calculation. Also added map asymmetry, specifically designed to lower specific strategy. 3rd, now adding another layer of complexity by making the damage reduction time based. On February 11 2014 03:35 Slayer91 wrote: elegant to someone who knows it well, not to the average person you could consider the tower changes elegant because they fix problems without affecting gameplay directly simply altering the defensive advantage. Effectiveness != elegant reminds me of kids writing code using full of if/and statements. sure it worked. but sure as fuck wasn't pretty to read. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
I'm just waiting for the patch where your initial reaction post is something positive. Make that happen for me next patch please. Think of it like a birthday present. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On February 11 2014 03:44 Ketara wrote: Oh I get it wei. I'm just waiting for the patch where your initial reaction post is something positive. Make that happen for me next patch please. Think of it like a birthday present. The only change that can make wei happy is banning Europe from having ADCs | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On February 11 2014 03:44 Ketara wrote: Oh I get it wei. I'm just waiting for the patch where your initial reaction post is something positive. Make that happen for me next patch please. Think of it like a birthday present. Yeah, you just conveniently missed the post where I said the change to thresh's Auto attack isn't really a bad thing, since it makes it into flay range. Also, there's multiple reasons to dislike the changes Riot's been doing to towers. 1)dislike of their intent to dissuade 2v1's (whether or not it actually works, is a different topic). 2)how they go about doing so (inelegant design) 3) the actual effectiveness of their change (just made it so jinx is the only champion in which 2v1 fast tower push actually works well in, so the strategy still exists, except they now just restricted it to one champion, and makes it to a 3v1, and now tower pushes in 3v1 push past the 2nd tier turrets) On February 11 2014 03:45 Fusilero wrote: The only change that can make wei happy is banning Europe from having ADCs I'd be okay with this. (minus rekkles, he's actually purty good). | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On February 11 2014 03:50 Ketara wrote: I did conveniently miss that post. Can you point it out to me? I am backtracking and I cannot find it. It was before you talked about the towers right? On February 11 2014 03:14 wei2coolman wrote: Changing turrets again? more convoluted changes? Riot seriously needs a lesson in elegant game design. By season 6, there's going to end up being 10 conditional rules in regards to how tanky towers end up being. That thresh change is going to be awesome tbh, going to match range on his flay now. it was edited in as I was reading through the notes. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Just checking. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On February 11 2014 03:54 Ketara wrote: Okay, so it wasn't before you talked about the turret changes and was part of an overall negative, Riot bashing post. Just checking. Wait, is this coming from the guy who wants to ban all high elo players that smurf? | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Unlike you, I don't pretend to be better at game design than professional game designers. | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21242 Posts
On February 11 2014 04:03 Ketara wrote: Unlike you, I don't pretend to be better at game design than professional game designers. The irony. | ||
AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On February 11 2014 04:03 Ketara wrote: Not the players, the smurf accounts. And I'd like to see you find a post of mine that has language like "Riot seriously needs a lesson in ______" Unlike you, I don't pretend to be better at game design than professional game designers. It has nothing to do with pretending. lol. I don't need to be a car designer to know the PT Cruiser is a shitty car. Even though it was designed by professionals. I don't know how you can look at these tower changes and go "man, these changes are so intuitive to our entire player base." clearly not the case. The changes might have a decent effect in lower the # of teleport toplaners, since top towers are easier to grab post 8 minutes (around when 1st dragon is usually taken), it might not be worth forcing the 5v4 in dragon pit if it means losing the top turret. | ||
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
On February 11 2014 04:10 AsmodeusXI wrote: Yup | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
(I also agree that it is an ugly, ugly car.) | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On February 11 2014 04:14 Ketara wrote: The best thing about Wei's last post is I totally drive a PT Cruiser. (I also agree that it is an ugly, ugly car.) this explains so much. | ||
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