|
On April 10 2013 23:23 Kylo55 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 23:20 Plansix wrote:On April 10 2013 23:18 dacimvrl wrote:On April 10 2013 23:16 Plansix wrote:On April 10 2013 23:11 seoul_kiM wrote:On April 10 2013 23:04 Plansix wrote:On April 10 2013 22:59 zimms wrote:
So the average casual SC2 viewer is a racist?
They don't care about Koreans because they don't know them and see no difference in skill. They also don't really know foreign players, but it's just less frightening to watch somebody with the same skin color.
Seriously? My girlfriend and I don't really care about most the the Korean players over members of EG that are in NA. There are exceptions, like Liquid Hero, MKP and Crank. But the rest, I could give two shits about. And that is why the pros and Blizzard could give two shits about you and your girlfriend. I don't understand why people don't want to see the best Starcraft 2 players in the world, regardless of where they are from, play? I like watching SC2 and good games, but a lot of the time, I don't care who wins. But my girlfriend and I watch the games for players we like, because it is fun. And considering my girlfriend is the audience that all Esports would love to have, people who don't play, but would watch a game being played. Larger numbers is better for them. I think blizzard would rather have paying customers(ppl who bought the game and watch the game often) than ppl who watch the game once in a while. Blizzard wants everyone to watch, along with Twitch and the teams. They all make money off the viewership. My girlfriend already owns a copy of SC2, she just doesn't play online. And there is no reason why we can't have an NA event for NA players. Yes they want everybody, but you cannot make everybody happy, so they are trying to make the biggest group of ppl happy. And the biggest group want koreans, numbers dont lie.
What numbers?
|
On April 10 2013 23:09 dtz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 23:05 opterown wrote:On April 10 2013 23:04 Elp wrote:On April 10 2013 22:17 nojitosunrise wrote:On April 10 2013 22:09 ZenithM wrote:On April 10 2013 22:07 Champloo wrote:
This is so stupid, why didn't they just make it based on nationality like the last WCS?
At least Europe will have mainly European players in it, but NA is not even worth watching for me now, and I would definitely be pissed if I was a NA pro player. There are no true NA pro players, that's the problem.Semi-pros at best, but most of them are still studying or working part-time or something. And there never will be if already "established" teams can just shuttle korean talent into NA. There is absolutely no incentive for upcoming NA player to get "good" at starcraft. So how do you explain the existence of young upcoming Korean players? They grow up in a much tougher scene than NA or EU, and still there are several each year that make it into a pro team. What was their incentive to try despite of terrible odds? ST.Life may be the best example. He was 14 when he joined a pro team. You think the infrastructure or finances he had available before he joined a team were any different from 14 year olds from EU or NA? No, he was just a kid who showed exceptional talent and determination, and was picked up by a pro team which recognized his potential. From there he grew into a world class player. actually the korean support for esports is so much greater than the infrastructure in NA or EU, so mmm. no 14-year old in US will spend 80% of his free time on sc2 since there's no potential future for it there, unlike in KR On April 10 2013 23:05 dacimvrl wrote:On April 10 2013 23:03 opterown wrote:On April 10 2013 23:01 dacimvrl wrote:On April 10 2013 22:59 zimms wrote:
So the average casual SC2 viewer is a racist?
They don't care about Koreans because they don't know them and see no difference in skill. They also don't really know foreign players, but it's just less frightening to watch somebody with the same skin color.
Seriously? Not only that, but people seem to think that these casual viewers' opinions (who don't even play sc2) should weigh more than actual SC2 fans and should have the power to decide what they want to watch in sc2.. which is fucking retarded. the number of casual viewers far outweighs the number of dedicated fans. it is those casual viewers where we can expand our scene, it's not good to be a community of several thousand insular elitists imo you have the statistics somewhere? because I am pretty sure the casual viewers would rather spend weekends and evenings out camping or skiing than watching Life vs Flash last MLG, breaking the viewer record. Just saying. casual viewers are what gave dota ~500,000 viewers, the average premier dota tournament does about as well as sc2, but with a proper story and decent foreigners to relate to, sc2 can reach those numbers too But i think we are misinterpreting what the "casuals" really want. I doubt many American casual viewer would enjoy watching Vibe beat Insur ( 2nd place WCS NA and 5th place WCS NA). But if Vibe plays against and beat Bomber, then hell yeah the casuals ( and even non-casuals) would be excited.But sadly this is getting harder and rarer. Which is why something drastic like this is needed. The Koreans are needed to give legitimacy to the tournament imo, at least in NA even if as villains. There are other benefits that i have mentioned repeatedly earlier as well ( infrastructure,skill transfer, etc etc).
You aren't interested because you recognize skill, you know how good Bomber is and even you as a follower of StarCraft most likely don't know a thing about Insur.
Casuals don't know how good or bad Insur is they don't know how good Bomber is, hell, they don't even know WHO Bomber is.
If WCS production companies started doing their homework and made video interviews with the players or small biography videos, if casters started doing their homework and knew facts and stories about the players themselves, they could sell you a Vibe vs Insur match damn well.
If casuals get to know the player more personally, they can be drawn in. Tell sob stories about how a player worked his way up through the scene with luck and hard training and people will become interested. Inform us about a players character, tell anecdotes about your experiences with him on ladder or in real life at events.
As long as we still remain in the "In the top right corner as the blue Protoss, he's down 0-1, can he bounce back, He iiiis: iSInsur. We are Axslav and Axeltoss follow us on twitter at..." mindset, you won't have fans, no matter if hardcore or casual, interested in anything but results and perceived skill. You need to make fans emotionally invested in matches, have them root for or against players and a regional tournament will succeed. (No offense to Ax&Ax, just used them as an example since they'll probably be casting WCS NA)
If you can't manage to create those deep storylines, your event will fail and be criticized by the many vocal people who only accept skill on par with Koreans as worthy of their views while the many others who could have watched and supported you will stay silent, because you didn't give them enough reason to watch and support you.
|
People are afraid that they will lose something, but that's not the case. You want to see American players playing against other American players? You want to see some American players play against Koreans?
It's all still there. The WCS NA has three levels. Maybe the top level will have more Koreans than Americans, but that means that the other American players already got their chance, played the game and got eliminated. These games are still being played. If not on the Premier level, then on one of the other two.
|
On April 10 2013 23:23 Kylo55 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 23:20 Plansix wrote:On April 10 2013 23:18 dacimvrl wrote:On April 10 2013 23:16 Plansix wrote:On April 10 2013 23:11 seoul_kiM wrote:On April 10 2013 23:04 Plansix wrote:On April 10 2013 22:59 zimms wrote:
So the average casual SC2 viewer is a racist?
They don't care about Koreans because they don't know them and see no difference in skill. They also don't really know foreign players, but it's just less frightening to watch somebody with the same skin color.
Seriously? My girlfriend and I don't really care about most the the Korean players over members of EG that are in NA. There are exceptions, like Liquid Hero, MKP and Crank. But the rest, I could give two shits about. And that is why the pros and Blizzard could give two shits about you and your girlfriend. I don't understand why people don't want to see the best Starcraft 2 players in the world, regardless of where they are from, play? I like watching SC2 and good games, but a lot of the time, I don't care who wins. But my girlfriend and I watch the games for players we like, because it is fun. And considering my girlfriend is the audience that all Esports would love to have, people who don't play, but would watch a game being played. Larger numbers is better for them. I think blizzard would rather have paying customers(ppl who bought the game and watch the game often) than ppl who watch the game once in a while. Blizzard wants everyone to watch, along with Twitch and the teams. They all make money off the viewership. My girlfriend already owns a copy of SC2, she just doesn't play online. And there is no reason why we can't have an NA event for NA players. Yes they want everybody, but you cannot make everybody happy, so they are trying to make the biggest group of ppl happy. And the biggest group want koreans, numbers dont lie.
Well WCS EU from last year also says doesn't lie. People just want good events and the players don't matter as much as people think. I don't people really care who plays as long as the games are fun to watch.
|
On April 10 2013 23:09 CoR wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 23:08 Acrofales wrote:On April 10 2013 22:47 Benjamin99 wrote:On April 10 2013 22:44 dacimvrl wrote:On April 10 2013 22:42 Plansix wrote:On April 10 2013 22:40 dacimvrl wrote:On April 10 2013 22:34 Plansix wrote:On April 10 2013 22:31 mordk wrote:On April 10 2013 22:13 Benjamin99 wrote:On April 10 2013 22:07 DusTerr wrote:
[quote]
And this actually gives the NA scene legitimacy AND exposure. How many viewers did the NA WCS get? What about any other NA held tournament without Koreans?
There is only one thing that's stopped "NA only" events. SPONSORS wanted viewers. Viewers wanted Koreans.
And that's not true at all. The reason NA WSC got less viewers was because MLG was at the same time. It was unfair for the NA WCS. Look at WCS EU one of the highest watched tournaments in 2012 and properly one of the best and most exciting On April 10 2013 22:13 mordk wrote:
That is not 100% sure. Viewers want a lot of things and its not just Koreans. My girlfriend only wants to watch games with players she likes, and the only Koreans she cares about are MKP and Liquid Hero. The rest are EG players and Gubby. People who claim that everyone wants Korean players are wrong.
Of course, nothing is absolute, but it's a good point. Viewership in all tournaments increases dramatically when there's good KR players involved. If a foreigner manages to go to the later stages then that's viewer count heaven, but foreinger only tournaments get a ton less viewers. Not true Mordk . Again look at WSC EU One tournament hardly means anything. For every case I can remember except WCS EU finals, tournaments heavily benefited in terms of viewer counts with the presence of KR players. No one is saying a few Korean players wouldn't be fine. Polt and Violet would be totally ok. But the top 16 shouldn't be Korean for an NA league, where the rules for NA players trying for the Korean league require them to be in Korea. Viewers or not, it is BS for the any player in NA who has been putting in any serious effort. The koreans are comming here for easy money because they are allowed qualify and play online. If they were required to play off line, in a studio, we should very few, if any. I welcome this. I honestly would rather watch top 16 filled w/ decent koreans like on the list. If I really wanted to watch some NA/EU master/gm noobs play, I would just watch my own replays... Yeah, well half my friends and girlfriend disagree. They couldn't give two shits about Korean players except MKP and Liquid Hero. That is like 10 viewer that will not be interested in this WCS if it is all Koreans. awesome, a whopping total of 10 viewers!! like Acrofales said, who would rather watch minigun vs catz when you can watch herO vs aLive. Please take you trolling elsewhere may I suggest Reddit On April 10 2013 22:46 Tobblish wrote:On April 10 2013 22:42 Plansix wrote:On April 10 2013 22:40 dacimvrl wrote:On April 10 2013 22:34 Plansix wrote:On April 10 2013 22:31 mordk wrote:On April 10 2013 22:13 Benjamin99 wrote:On April 10 2013 22:07 DusTerr wrote:
[quote]
And this actually gives the NA scene legitimacy AND exposure. How many viewers did the NA WCS get? What about any other NA held tournament without Koreans?
There is only one thing that's stopped "NA only" events. SPONSORS wanted viewers. Viewers wanted Koreans.
And that's not true at all. The reason NA WSC got less viewers was because MLG was at the same time. It was unfair for the NA WCS. Look at WCS EU one of the highest watched tournaments in 2012 and properly one of the best and most exciting On April 10 2013 22:13 mordk wrote:
That is not 100% sure. Viewers want a lot of things and its not just Koreans. My girlfriend only wants to watch games with players she likes, and the only Koreans she cares about are MKP and Liquid Hero. The rest are EG players and Gubby. People who claim that everyone wants Korean players are wrong.
Of course, nothing is absolute, but it's a good point. Viewership in all tournaments increases dramatically when there's good KR players involved. If a foreigner manages to go to the later stages then that's viewer count heaven, but foreinger only tournaments get a ton less viewers. Not true Mordk . Again look at WSC EU One tournament hardly means anything. For every case I can remember except WCS EU finals, tournaments heavily benefited in terms of viewer counts with the presence of KR players. No one is saying a few Korean players wouldn't be fine. Polt and Violet would be totally ok. But the top 16 shouldn't be Korean for an NA league, where the rules for NA players trying for the Korean league require them to be in Korea. Viewers or not, it is BS for the any player in NA who has been putting in any serious effort. The koreans are comming here for easy money because they are allowed qualify and play online. If they were required to play off line, in a studio, we should very few, if any. I welcome this. I honestly would rather watch top 16 filled w/ decent koreans like on the list. If I really wanted to watch some NA/EU master/gm noobs play, I would just watch my own replays... Yeah, well half my friends and girlfriend disagree. They couldn't give two shits about Korean players except MKP and Liquid Hero. That is like 10 viewer that will not be interested in this WCS if it is all Koreans. I wonder why those 10 people don't like to watch Koreans instead of Americans. Racists people I bet. Yes 90% fans of Starcraft are all racist you got us. On April 10 2013 22:47 plasemeious wrote:On April 10 2013 22:33 EleanorRIgby wrote:
wtf with this region mean nothing, it is not WCS NA. They should just region lock it or the NA scene will shrink rather then grow. People are already tired of watching korean vs korean everything and want some country/continent only tournaments. I never understood this. I always preferred to see the better players playing as opposed to worse foreigners playing Ask a Malaga fan why he don't support Barcelona in football when they clearly got the best players. Welcome to the world of sports Are there Malaga fans outside of Malaga? Except for the economic fugitives from Spain's impoverished south, I doubt it. Yet Barcelona is one of the most popular football clubs in the world. If Malaga plays against Levante, only Spaniards care (and ony a few of them). If Barcelona plays against Man U. half of the football-loving world tunes in (from Brazil to Japan). I wonder which market Blizzard is more interested in? Now of course you can say that Barcelona and Man U. only have that extraordinary selection of talent BECAUSE of teams like Malaga (or more likely Flamengos or Boca Juniors), but then we enter into another realm of discussion: how should eSports be promoted and encouraged to grow. Blizzard clearly thinks that putting the Barcelonas and Man U.'s in the spotlight will encourage more tournaments to give the Levantes of this world a chance, because sponsors are attracted, etc. etc. (trickle-down effect). People here seem to think that the grass-roots approach is better. I don't know, but I am sure that Blizzard has some clever market analysts working on it and they came up with this model, so lets try trusting them, hey? In the meantime, we get to watch great games instead of a failure where the only exciting question is whether Idra bombs out in the first or second round. AND STILL, as malaga fan you dont care anyone as much as malaga and so is it with pros, you have "your" players you love and like them more, if spanish league says "no more league just showmatches between topteams and then more championleague games etc" its good for alot guys alot love top games but your pissed as fuck ... ps: as bvb fan i love malaga quotes xD
And that's where the opinions differ. You seem to think it is Blizzard's job to create national leagues. Blizzard sees it as their job to create the Champions League.
They tried the national league approach last year and it clearly didn't work as well as they had hoped. In the Spanish league there are enough fans of the local teams to sustain them at a professional level. Unfortunately for eSports, there are not (yet) enough fans of the Miniguns, Vibes and Insurs of this world to sustain them at a professional level. So now Blizzard has decided to promote eSports in a different way. Whether it will work, we don't know yet. But I am quite confident that with players like Hero, aLive and Nestea in the American WCS, it will have more vieweres than the WCS NA event last year (which was a complete failure).
|
On April 10 2013 23:08 CoR wrote:
what has that all with rasism to do like some people say ... its national pride and you wanna see people win you can imagine yourself in ... sure i am for europeans and sure i want foreigns team koreans ... still i love koreans and dont be rasism and can want them all lose 0-3 xD
I wouldn't call someone from rural Atlanta in the United States rooting for "anyone but those Koreans" a "national pride". I'm not talking about you, of course, but it does happen in this community too often.
|
It wasn't a long time ago where people spoke out against tournaments where the number of Koreans determined if they were going to watch or not. It seems that the community is split in different factions like pro/anti GSL and pro/anti foreigners and so there will always be a very vocal minority against just about anything.
|
On April 10 2013 23:24 Elairec wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 23:23 Kylo55 wrote:On April 10 2013 23:20 Plansix wrote:On April 10 2013 23:18 dacimvrl wrote:On April 10 2013 23:16 Plansix wrote:On April 10 2013 23:11 seoul_kiM wrote:On April 10 2013 23:04 Plansix wrote:On April 10 2013 22:59 zimms wrote:
So the average casual SC2 viewer is a racist?
They don't care about Koreans because they don't know them and see no difference in skill. They also don't really know foreign players, but it's just less frightening to watch somebody with the same skin color.
Seriously? My girlfriend and I don't really care about most the the Korean players over members of EG that are in NA. There are exceptions, like Liquid Hero, MKP and Crank. But the rest, I could give two shits about. And that is why the pros and Blizzard could give two shits about you and your girlfriend. I don't understand why people don't want to see the best Starcraft 2 players in the world, regardless of where they are from, play? I like watching SC2 and good games, but a lot of the time, I don't care who wins. But my girlfriend and I watch the games for players we like, because it is fun. And considering my girlfriend is the audience that all Esports would love to have, people who don't play, but would watch a game being played. Larger numbers is better for them. I think blizzard would rather have paying customers(ppl who bought the game and watch the game often) than ppl who watch the game once in a while. Blizzard wants everyone to watch, along with Twitch and the teams. They all make money off the viewership. My girlfriend already owns a copy of SC2, she just doesn't play online. And there is no reason why we can't have an NA event for NA players. Yes they want everybody, but you cannot make everybody happy, so they are trying to make the biggest group of ppl happy. And the biggest group want koreans, numbers dont lie. What numbers?
The really high MLG numbers from one of the first major HotS events in NA prime time. WCS EU also had huge numbers, but those numbers don't count for a number of reasons that people will detail to prove their point.
|
On April 10 2013 23:13 Elairec wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 23:10 JustPassingBy wrote:On April 10 2013 23:07 Elairec wrote:On April 10 2013 23:05 opterown wrote:On April 10 2013 23:04 Elp wrote:On April 10 2013 22:17 nojitosunrise wrote:On April 10 2013 22:09 ZenithM wrote:On April 10 2013 22:07 Champloo wrote:
This is so stupid, why didn't they just make it based on nationality like the last WCS?
At least Europe will have mainly European players in it, but NA is not even worth watching for me now, and I would definitely be pissed if I was a NA pro player. There are no true NA pro players, that's the problem.Semi-pros at best, but most of them are still studying or working part-time or something. And there never will be if already "established" teams can just shuttle korean talent into NA. There is absolutely no incentive for upcoming NA player to get "good" at starcraft. So how do you explain the existence of young upcoming Korean players? They grow up in a much tougher scene than NA or EU, and still there are several each year that make it into a pro team. What was their incentive to try despite of terrible odds? ST.Life may be the best example. He was 14 when he joined a pro team. You think the infrastructure or finances he had available before he joined a team were any different from 14 year olds from EU or NA? No, he was just a kid who showed exceptional talent and determination, and was picked up by a pro team which recognized his potential. From there he grew into a world class player. actually the korean support for esports is so much greater than the infrastructure in NA or EU, so mmm. no 14-year old in US will spend 80% of his free time on sc2 since there's no potential future for it there, unlike in KR Added to that is the social stigma attached to it all on this side of the world As if that stigma would not exists in Korea. I think the most important reason why there are so many up-and-comers in Korea and so few outside is due to the teams. If you want to take gaming seriously, you go for the tryouts. If you show enough promise, then a team will pick you up. In that case, you also don't really need to care about the social stigma because you can claim to be part of a professional team (even though you aren't even close to being on the a-Team), and most importantly because you are mainly surrounded by people who share your passion. We are talking about a culture which TELEVISES pro gaming. The best we get in NA are streamed matches online and you don't think there is a different cultural acceptance to pro gaming and you don't get why it would be harder for teenagers here to dedicate every waking moment outside of school to sc2?
I wouldn't say that discrepancy in the amount of broadcasted professional games on tv reflects the discrepancy in the social stigma to gaming.
Back when the broadcast started in Korea, they were basically the only way of watching games, they had no competition in form of online streams and used that leverage to establish a dominant position in the scene.
Even if gaming were widely accepted in our society, there is such a great supply of really good online content, that it would give any channel slowly starting to dip its feet into the market a hell of a run for the audience.
Also the position of television in the world of media isn't as great by now as it had been, especially with the target younger audience.
|
On April 10 2013 22:53 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 22:44 Passion wrote:On April 10 2013 22:23 avilo wrote:
This is pretty terrible lmao. The entire point of WCS and this initiative was to get other countries/regions to have an ecosystem of their own, as well as infuse prize money that those players in those regions could feasibly win.
Instead, what we have set up is a system where blizzard basically said, "here koreans, free moneys, foreigners...screw you." Perhaps that was not their intention, but that's going to be the result.
So what is the incentive here for people to train, and invest their own money to go to events, etc? You know a korean with 10x the training, a team house, team backing will be at the event.
Oh wait, I got that wrong. Instead of a few like previously, now it's going to be 15+ all here to take your region's cash lol.
This is insanely stupid. Imagine the Olympics allowing NBA teams to play "in any region." I can imagine it now.
"Welcome to the 2016 Olympic basketball finals! Your finalists, China's LA lakers, Russia's Boston Celtics, Canada's Clippers," wait a minute...what happened to the other countries basketball teams?
How does this prevent the various regions to have their own ecosystem in any way? How does Blizzard offering "foreigners" (though I don't understand the relevance of "foreigners" in this context) a chance to win more money by playing a game translate into "foreigner... screw you"? What the incentive is? Good question. However, given the amount of cash available, I sure do hope these people don't train and go to events to make a living, as 99% of them will never manage such, despite the extra money Blizzard is putting on the table. I hope that it's, like in any sport, the fact that they enjoy the game and enjoy being competitive. Training to earn cash only becomes relevant after you've gone professional. Your region's cash? First of all, what the hell makes you feel so entitled to that money? Though more importantly maybe, why should people from with different nationalities not be allowed to participate in a tournament located in "your region"? Sure it's good to also have national championships, however, this never was intended to be such. NBA teams at the Olympics? You really have a hard time understanding competitive sports, don't you? Besides, if you look at other sports like you do, this luckily happens all the time. Half of the average football squad consists of foreign players. They improve quality, mix things up and keep the leagues interesting. I'm pretty certain the premier league wouldn't be the most entertaining competition in the world if it weren't for this. Obviously Blizzard isn't doing thing perfectly, but it seems a good effort at setting up a global league system, something that has direly been missing in SC2. It's basically the next step towards having a truly professional competitive scene. It's good (EVEN if only for the extra cash spent). What ever mistakes they make, they'll learn from those. All this bitching and whining is totally uncalled for (without meaning to say we shouldn't give feedback, once we bump into issues, not before) - even though I realise it was inevitable, given how entitled and narrow minded this community has seem to become. It is not rocket science to understand. Blizzard intended this to help stimulate each region's player base, not turn NA into Korea2, and EU into Korea3. You're one of those people that has no clue. You're blanket calling people "entitled and narrow minded." You don't see the larger picture, that this does not help facilitate NA/EU growth. Apparently, you also have no understanding of real sports or progression systems. You don't join a local basketball qualifer tournament and have to play against Lebron James straight away if you're a basketball player. That would be ridiculous. You start with your local region, you win that, you go to regionals, then national level, pro level, etc. There has to be a progression. Yes, professional sports have athletes from other countries, but you're dellusional if you think that players from other countries are joining another countries NATIONAL TEAM. Sports do not work like that. http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1c1slt/my_views_on_wcsregional_based_leagues_region/Read Catz post from reddit. He basically covers and echos the thoughts of rational minded people in the foreign scene.
You might be sad that top level players in each region will have to be imported from Korea on the short run, but this doesn't turn said region into Korea2 or 3 - if only because those players moving there won't be in Korea anymore. Having a top division that's worth watching in fact helps the local competition.
And there we have it. Top division. You even mention the topic yourself: progression system! The WCS is not a local basketball qualifier. It's a place where the absolute best compete, in order to give a great show, a showcase of the sport.
I'm all for having such a progression system, and so seems Blizzard, as this seems to be exactly what they're trying to create here, starting by setting up the top layers.
However, I don't get why you think this means they ought to set up charity matches exclusively for American or European players. This seems to be the main point you're not getting. This is the Champions League, not the World Cup or some national tournament. Perhaps you don't like it, but that's what they're offering. (Not to get me wrong, a large scale world cup sounds awesome as well.) Edit: Also, for all existing sports, you can sign yourself or your team into a local competition and compete. This doesn't depend on your nationality in any way.
Catz makes some interesting point and I see where he's coming from (there's plenty I disagree with a well), and there's no one saying the international competitive SC2 scene is perfect right now. However, this won't be fixed that easily, and while there are other things that can and should be done, these effort on the WCS are definitely a good thing and a step in the right direction. To give one example, Koreans moving to NA/EU will create an competition worth watching, while also result in them bringing the Korean esports knowledge/mentality/(team house)infrastructure to these places. Local players will benefit a lot more from this than giving the top 3 NA/EU players a little bit of cash.
Ps. "its not rocket science", "you're one of those people that has no clue", "you have no understanding", "you don't see the larger picture", "you're delusional", "rational people" while not posting a single good point and failing to understand a word I write... kind of sad. Makes me think... Kind of sad I'm still trying to explain as well.
|
why is blizzard killing their own eSPORT? >_>
|
On April 10 2013 23:15 dacimvrl wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 23:11 seoul_kiM wrote:On April 10 2013 23:04 Plansix wrote:On April 10 2013 22:59 zimms wrote:
So the average casual SC2 viewer is a racist?
They don't care about Koreans because they don't know them and see no difference in skill. They also don't really know foreign players, but it's just less frightening to watch somebody with the same skin color.
Seriously? My girlfriend and I don't really care about most the the Korean players over members of EG that are in NA. There are exceptions, like Liquid Hero, MKP and Crank. But the rest, I could give two shits about. And that is why the pros and Blizzard could give two shits about you and your girlfriend. I don't understand why people don't want to see the best Starcraft 2 players in the world, regardless of where they are from, play? Exactly. Not to mention Life vs Flash at the last MLG broke viewer numbers. (even when these casuals don't even care to watch or know these 2 players)
I think you're making a wrong conclusion here. I definitely think it's bogus that people don't want to watch "random Koreans" play and that MLG was a clear indication of that. However, I think if you have a tournament of 16 top Koreans with no foreigners in it, you will have much lower numbers than a mixed tournament where the Koreans eventually win out (like at MLG). People who might not judiciously follow the scene will start to care about a "random Korean" who plows through some of their favorite players or shows good games in general.
Anyway, if the majority of the viewers were strictly about seeing the best games out there, you'd see GSL completely dominate in terms of viewership, but that simply is not the case. And if they were dominating, you can be sure they would have actually given out real viewer numbers at some point. There were other Korean only tournaments that were super stacked but never broke any viewership records either (Iron Squid comes to mind, but there were others I'm forgetting right now).
|
On April 10 2013 23:23 Benjamin99 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 23:20 darkness wrote:On April 10 2013 23:19 Warpath wrote:On April 10 2013 23:18 darkness wrote:On April 10 2013 23:13 Klipsys wrote:
Sorry to burst the bubble, but it's not Blizzard/Korean's fault that white people are bad at games... Extremely dumb post, and kinda racist too. Actually, "white people" aren't bad at games, it's just that Koreans have established team houses with established practice schedules. This topic has been discussed to death. so white people aren't bad... Koreans are just better. What I said can be said in other words - Koreans are just more hard-working in StarCraft (or gaming). Hard work often pays off.  Yea, sure believe that if you wish. Btw where is you proof to backup those claims? A NA player could practise 24/7 and he still wont be able to touch the Koreans since you only as good as the infrastructure you play in
I'm not sure why you mention only an NA player, while EU works too. So, an example of a hard-working guy is NaNiWa. I mean I've not watched him recently, but I refer to the MLG time when he took down MVP, DRG, Nestea... Besides, I said it 'often' pays off not 'always'. Some people just don't get it even if they work hard.
|
On April 10 2013 23:27 wanghis wrote:
why is blizzard killing their own eSPORT? >_>
Capslock makes me think that the poster tries to be ironic, that particular smiley makes me think the poster is serious... I am confused...
|
I don't understand all the people who say they only want to see Koreans play because they are better. I wonder if these people don't support any local sports teams. Do they only watch Champions league? To me sports is all about supporting your local team/players and the stories and rivalries between the players.
In the Netherlands we have our football (soccer) league team FC Utrecht. It doesn't really matter to them how the season goes as long as they beat Ajax.
|
mvp graces us with his presence =D yay!
|
Why are there so many people in support of a Esports welfare system? The best players deserve the most money.
|
Ret is not right. Is he really thinking that guys like TaeJa, Jaedong, Ryung or Polt will lose their skill level in such a great way that IdrA can win again? rofl! Blizzard should've made that WCS for Korea only, that would've been more honest.
|
On April 10 2013 23:26 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 23:09 CoR wrote:On April 10 2013 23:08 Acrofales wrote:On April 10 2013 22:47 Benjamin99 wrote:On April 10 2013 22:44 dacimvrl wrote:On April 10 2013 22:42 Plansix wrote:On April 10 2013 22:40 dacimvrl wrote:On April 10 2013 22:34 Plansix wrote:On April 10 2013 22:31 mordk wrote:On April 10 2013 22:13 Benjamin99 wrote:
[quote]
And that's not true at all. The reason NA WSC got less viewers was because MLG was at the same time. It was unfair for the NA WCS.
Look at WCS EU one of the highest watched tournaments in 2012 and properly one of the best and most exciting
[quote]
Not true Mordk . Again look at WSC EU One tournament hardly means anything. For every case I can remember except WCS EU finals, tournaments heavily benefited in terms of viewer counts with the presence of KR players. No one is saying a few Korean players wouldn't be fine. Polt and Violet would be totally ok. But the top 16 shouldn't be Korean for an NA league, where the rules for NA players trying for the Korean league require them to be in Korea. Viewers or not, it is BS for the any player in NA who has been putting in any serious effort. The koreans are comming here for easy money because they are allowed qualify and play online. If they were required to play off line, in a studio, we should very few, if any. I welcome this. I honestly would rather watch top 16 filled w/ decent koreans like on the list. If I really wanted to watch some NA/EU master/gm noobs play, I would just watch my own replays... Yeah, well half my friends and girlfriend disagree. They couldn't give two shits about Korean players except MKP and Liquid Hero. That is like 10 viewer that will not be interested in this WCS if it is all Koreans. awesome, a whopping total of 10 viewers!! like Acrofales said, who would rather watch minigun vs catz when you can watch herO vs aLive. Please take you trolling elsewhere may I suggest Reddit On April 10 2013 22:46 Tobblish wrote:On April 10 2013 22:42 Plansix wrote:On April 10 2013 22:40 dacimvrl wrote:On April 10 2013 22:34 Plansix wrote:On April 10 2013 22:31 mordk wrote:On April 10 2013 22:13 Benjamin99 wrote:
[quote]
And that's not true at all. The reason NA WSC got less viewers was because MLG was at the same time. It was unfair for the NA WCS.
Look at WCS EU one of the highest watched tournaments in 2012 and properly one of the best and most exciting
[quote]
Not true Mordk . Again look at WSC EU One tournament hardly means anything. For every case I can remember except WCS EU finals, tournaments heavily benefited in terms of viewer counts with the presence of KR players. No one is saying a few Korean players wouldn't be fine. Polt and Violet would be totally ok. But the top 16 shouldn't be Korean for an NA league, where the rules for NA players trying for the Korean league require them to be in Korea. Viewers or not, it is BS for the any player in NA who has been putting in any serious effort. The koreans are comming here for easy money because they are allowed qualify and play online. If they were required to play off line, in a studio, we should very few, if any. I welcome this. I honestly would rather watch top 16 filled w/ decent koreans like on the list. If I really wanted to watch some NA/EU master/gm noobs play, I would just watch my own replays... Yeah, well half my friends and girlfriend disagree. They couldn't give two shits about Korean players except MKP and Liquid Hero. That is like 10 viewer that will not be interested in this WCS if it is all Koreans. I wonder why those 10 people don't like to watch Koreans instead of Americans. Racists people I bet. Yes 90% fans of Starcraft are all racist you got us. On April 10 2013 22:47 plasemeious wrote:On April 10 2013 22:33 EleanorRIgby wrote:
wtf with this region mean nothing, it is not WCS NA. They should just region lock it or the NA scene will shrink rather then grow. People are already tired of watching korean vs korean everything and want some country/continent only tournaments. I never understood this. I always preferred to see the better players playing as opposed to worse foreigners playing Ask a Malaga fan why he don't support Barcelona in football when they clearly got the best players. Welcome to the world of sports Are there Malaga fans outside of Malaga? Except for the economic fugitives from Spain's impoverished south, I doubt it. Yet Barcelona is one of the most popular football clubs in the world. If Malaga plays against Levante, only Spaniards care (and ony a few of them). If Barcelona plays against Man U. half of the football-loving world tunes in (from Brazil to Japan). I wonder which market Blizzard is more interested in? Now of course you can say that Barcelona and Man U. only have that extraordinary selection of talent BECAUSE of teams like Malaga (or more likely Flamengos or Boca Juniors), but then we enter into another realm of discussion: how should eSports be promoted and encouraged to grow. Blizzard clearly thinks that putting the Barcelonas and Man U.'s in the spotlight will encourage more tournaments to give the Levantes of this world a chance, because sponsors are attracted, etc. etc. (trickle-down effect). People here seem to think that the grass-roots approach is better. I don't know, but I am sure that Blizzard has some clever market analysts working on it and they came up with this model, so lets try trusting them, hey? In the meantime, we get to watch great games instead of a failure where the only exciting question is whether Idra bombs out in the first or second round. AND STILL, as malaga fan you dont care anyone as much as malaga and so is it with pros, you have "your" players you love and like them more, if spanish league says "no more league just showmatches between topteams and then more championleague games etc" its good for alot guys alot love top games but your pissed as fuck ... ps: as bvb fan i love malaga quotes xD And that's where the opinions differ. You seem to think it is Blizzard's job to create national leagues. Blizzard sees it as their job to create the Champions League.
Champions league withouth some proper developed national leagues is pretty much worthless.
|
On April 10 2013 23:23 Kylo55 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 23:20 Plansix wrote:On April 10 2013 23:18 dacimvrl wrote:On April 10 2013 23:16 Plansix wrote:On April 10 2013 23:11 seoul_kiM wrote:On April 10 2013 23:04 Plansix wrote:On April 10 2013 22:59 zimms wrote:
So the average casual SC2 viewer is a racist?
They don't care about Koreans because they don't know them and see no difference in skill. They also don't really know foreign players, but it's just less frightening to watch somebody with the same skin color.
Seriously? My girlfriend and I don't really care about most the the Korean players over members of EG that are in NA. There are exceptions, like Liquid Hero, MKP and Crank. But the rest, I could give two shits about. And that is why the pros and Blizzard could give two shits about you and your girlfriend. I don't understand why people don't want to see the best Starcraft 2 players in the world, regardless of where they are from, play? I like watching SC2 and good games, but a lot of the time, I don't care who wins. But my girlfriend and I watch the games for players we like, because it is fun. And considering my girlfriend is the audience that all Esports would love to have, people who don't play, but would watch a game being played. Larger numbers is better for them. I think blizzard would rather have paying customers(ppl who bought the game and watch the game often) than ppl who watch the game once in a while. Blizzard wants everyone to watch, along with Twitch and the teams. They all make money off the viewership. My girlfriend already owns a copy of SC2, she just doesn't play online. And there is no reason why we can't have an NA event for NA players. Yes they want everybody, but you cannot make everybody happy, so they are trying to make the biggest group of ppl happy. And the biggest group want koreans, numbers dont lie.
I see this being tossed around a lot but nobody ever backs it up. Yeah, the diehard TL'ers who follow the scene closely will want the best players everytime (KR) but that doesn't account for the majority of viewership. What numbers? When?
WCS EU was the most watched WoL tournament. DH also gets abnormally large views despite historically being weaker than MLG.
To be frank, I really don't think it matters at all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
