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@ Cora
@Hapa: Why would I switch off a vote that was most likely going to be deadlocked and letting a non-scum and a scum die to just have my supposed "scum-buddy" die? That doesn't make any sense.
It makes perfect sense. Momentum was swinging very rapidly against Kei towards the end of the day. When you made the hammer vote, Thrawn was openly thinking about hammering Kei himself.
I wasn't focusing on Thrawn and Kei D1, I was more focused on Oats and Syl when it came to my scumhunting. The latter half of the duel consisted of us talking about people other than the duelists. I just decided to end it and instead of scumhunting with a hint towards the future, we speed things up and force the other scum to come out of their holes instead of sitting there and having a vote deadlock.
In all honesty my switch from Adam is going to look scummy either way. If I had stayed on Adam I would've looked scummy for refusing to switch to a scum. I decided to switch and we lynched a scum. Let's have a party.
Firstly you mean Adam and Kei (not Thrawn and Kei), correct?
Anyway, I think you missed a lot of my suspicions against you. Here's the rundown:
1) You had a town-read (and was soft defending) Kei for very suspect rationale. Syl's "indecision" on the lynch makes no sense for you to give a town-read on Kei. Furthermore, since Syl voted Adam, I would have expected you to support a Kei lynch much more.
2) You never try to analyze the filter of Kei. You have no shortage of words and rationale for Adam earlier in the day, but when it comes to Kei, I never got a hint that you even looked at his filter from your posts.
On another note, if I had said "I'm switching cause I felt like it", would you have a town read on me?
Speculating about what you didn't do is pretty pointless.
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On March 01 2013 07:40 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 07:36 Adam4167 wrote:On March 01 2013 07:36 cDgCorazon wrote:On March 01 2013 07:28 Adam4167 wrote:On March 01 2013 07:20 Acrofales wrote:On March 01 2013 07:11 Adam4167 wrote:
So Acro, your proposed scumteam looks like 'Alderan, Sylencia/Cora, Deino and Keirathi'?
I don't begin to assume how this game as balanced, but I have more games then your entire scum team combined. If you want to catch the scumteam all at once, what is it according to you? This is about my 16th or so game, so still more than keirathi, according to his profile. Regardless.. Deino needs to flip. That will give me a very good indication as to yourself, considering how you were defending him on D1. Deino flips scum, the remaining scum will probably be yourself and one of Zare/Yamato - as per my reads post. You don't think Syl is scum? Nope. Did you read my list? So as long as he doesn't do anything "bad", you're still not going to have a scum read on him?
I feel like he cares town. I have higher priority scum reads elsewhere.
If hes scum playing for endgame, hes going to have a heck of a time trying to convince anyone to do anything he says when we get there, so we kill him later.
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On March 01 2013 07:36 yamato77 wrote:
Hapa, when you have time, I absolutely need your input on my case on Acro.
Like, you can't post any more reads without reading that.
Going page-by-page. I'll get to it when I get to it.
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11589 Posts
On March 01 2013 07:49 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 07:36 yamato77 wrote:
Hapa, when you have time, I absolutely need your input on my case on Acro.
Like, you can't post any more reads without reading that. Going page-by-page. I'll get to it when I get to it.
Hapa confirmed mafia. /sarcasm
zzzzz
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On March 01 2013 07:47 Adam4167 wrote:
I expect a certain level from you, and when you place someone in your top 4 town reads that opens with a post like Deino's, and responds to my aggression like he did, I am concerned that you are not seeing what I consider is right in front of your face.
You've since dumpstered his initial post, for exactly the same reasons that I did on day 1, yet after your first read on day 1, he was 'top 4 town' and now hes scum for the same post.
Two ways of reading that post: scum flailing around or newbie town flailing around. At the time I gave him doubt. If YOU had made that post I would have nailed you to the cross. Or Hapa. However, it was someone who is legitimately a newbie town and I remembered making strange nonsense reads.
Two things have changed since then:
1. Newbie town generally gets its shit together with as little pressure as there was on him and starts trying to contribute. Dieno never made that transition. So that leaves the "scum flailing around" explanation.
2. I refreshed my meta read on Dieno and found that while his reads were sometimes nonsensical, he took firm viewpoints and argued for them.
Both of these point to a scum Dieno, rather than a town Dieno. Anyway, I caught scum D1. WTF is your problem.
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On March 01 2013 00:48 Alderan wrote:
@Syl, so under no circumstance would you initiate a duel with Dieno?
I would much prefer it with Corazon, but I'm not going to put a random duel out there if everyone doesn't agree on it.
If Deino remained missing without an explanation until now I would've considered him a lot more but he's here now, and my wanting to duel him has increased since he's made this gem of a statement:
On March 01 2013 02:29 Dienosore wrote:
As for me dueling Syl, I would totally be OK with that. He has looked scummy to me for a while now.
No explanation, this is the first time he's ever mentioned me in a post, and he gives no reinforcement to his claim. At least everyone else has done something to show that I am potentially scummy but Dieno just sheeps onto that thought and is now riding it.
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11589 Posts
You played a well-orchestrated bus.
inches from the duel button. Claiming town on that basis is completely bullshit.
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EBWOP: gave him the benefit of the doubt
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Dienosore
Look at this reply to adam:
On February 25 2013 12:17 Dienosore wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 09:29 Dienosore wrote:
- Snarf/Marv's plan to use all of our time to get a majority before dueling seems like the best and most logical path of action. No complaints there.
You agree with the general consensus of the thread. Adds nothing. At the time there were like three people posting, one of which wanted to duel. The general consensus wasn't exactly agreed on when I wrote that. (Is it even agreed on now?) I was simply throwing my weight behind the plan to use our time to think things through. Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 09:29 Dienosore wrote:
- Yamato, easy on the trigger amigo. I can see some merit to what you are saying, though. It might be very beneficial for the town to have someone like you who is willing to duel in order to prove alignment, as long as you follow the general town consensus. Could help to keep everyone honest...
...On the other hand, you might be mafia... in which case having you as a baseline enforcer would only result in towny deaths. Until you get cleared somehow, I think we should stick with the plan to just take our time.
You tell yamato to stop acting how he's acting, yet you can see the merit of how hes acting, then you waffle a couple of sentences about him being either alignment, then conclude with 'just do what everyone else is doing'. It says literally nothing of value. Because his alignment is unknown right now, I wanted him to not be so hasty in his decision to duel so we dont accidentally shoot a towny. Then I proposed the idea that we shouldn't use duels as a second lynch until someone has been absolutely confirmed town. He has backed off a little bit since all this was written, so whatever, it's moot now. However, I still think my idea is sound. If you disagree, please explain why. Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 09:29 Dienosore wrote:
- Corazon: I don't know you, therefore I don't not like you! <3 Not sure why marv is putting doubt on you already, but I generally trust him. Is there something about you I should know? Here you buddy Corazon, saying you are unsure why marv is doing what hes doing, but you generally trust marv, but you don't state if you're trusting him THIS TIME and agree with his read on Corazon or whether you disagree as you hinted at in the beginning. Again, this is just a nothing paragraph. Just me being friendly. Would you have been happy if I just followed suit and jumped on the anti Corazon bandwagon? And it wasn't a nothing paragraph... I was asking for someone (anyone) to volunteer more info. Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 10:41 Dienosore wrote:On February 25 2013 10:06 Adam4167 wrote:
This started 30 minutes after i went to bed, bleh =(
I agree with Yamato, If i see scum, i'll make my case and duel them.
Forcing two other people to duel at your behest is weak - man up, take responsibility for your reads.
Dieno, your opening post was quite bad. You seem to be trying to make friends with and please everyone, while saying absolutely nothing of value. Step it up or get dueled tomorrow.
How was my opening post bad lol. I said hello, gave my stance on the things being discussed at the moment (there wasnt much happening). I am a friendly guy, you should know this from our previous games. I was trying to get more info on someone I didnt know before I formed an opinion on them. However, you implying you want to duel with your first post seems way sketchy. No discussion, no case, just PLAY BETTER OR DIE lol How does anything you say accomplish information extraction as you say? "Is there something about you I should know?" is about as vague as anything you could post and it went completely ignored as a result. I didn't imply I wanted to duel, I specifically stated it. You deem it 'way sketchy'. Is that scummy? if you think its scummy, then call it what it is. Its not 'PLAY BETTER OR DIE' its 'you have less than 24 hours to change my mind, or we duel'. Information is power in this game, so I didn't really expect a detailed answer to my question. I went fishing and came up empty, big deal. I'll continue fishing until I get a bite. As for changing your mind, I have a feeling that no matter what I say you are still going to be gunning for me. Yes, I think you pushing for a instant duel with your first post is super scummy, especially when we have more than enough time to deliberate and come to a general consensus as a group. I can't see any town motivation in what you are doing right now.
Which, ironically enough, means that we should duel. If I lose the vote and die, I'll flip green and you will have condemned yourself even further. If I win, then scumball down, victory for town.
Bring it on.
Look at how confident and eager to duel dieno is:
As for changing your mind, I have a feeling that no matter what I say you are still going to be gunning for me. Yes, I think you pushing for a instant duel with your first post is super scummy, especially when we have more than enough time to deliberate and come to a general consensus as a group. I can't see any town motivation in what you are doing right now.
Which, ironically enough, means that we should duel. If I lose the vote and die, I'll flip green and you will have condemned yourself even further. If I win, then scumball down, victory for town.
Bring it on.
yet after adam backs down, dienosore comes in with this:
On February 25 2013 13:11 Dienosore wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 12:48 Adam4167 wrote:
You can still change my mind, I am not a tunnel machine. I pull out of shit tunnels all the time, as I did with GoodKarma in Chrono or SacredSystem in a newbie I subbed into with Zarepath months ago.
You are right, we have more than enough time to deliberate, I am making my intentions known now so we can discuss it at depth.
You want to change my mind? Go find scum. I'd like to think Ill know pretty quickly if what you're posting is genuine or piffle.
Good to hear that you are willing to disarm, even if ever so slightly. Unfortunately, I am not the best scum hunter. I rely on my maps a lot, as you probably know, which usually require days of information and copious cross referencing before the incriminating connections really stand out. I'll try to whip up something before I go to bed tonight, though.
and here are the rest of his comments on adam until the duel took place:
"I've cooled off a bit on Adam. If he still wants to get some, I'm here to call his bluff, but I think our time is better spent looking at a few other people right now. His level of activity is about 10x's what I have seen in past games already"
So it seems like Dieno's main motivating factor in originally wanting to duel adam was entirely because adam wanted to duel dieno. Dieno's scumread on adam consists of nothing, like he is only dueling to defend his namesake or some shit. This is odd because you should only be wanting to duel your strong scumreads and I don't get the feeling that Dieno had a strong scumread on adam. After adam backs down, Dieno does nothing about his read except to state that he's cooled off and want to focus on other things, but also that he's ready and willing to duel if adam wants to. So does dienosaur have a scumread on adam? Does it look like a scumread that is strong enough to be the basis of a duel?
Keirathi has already shown that mafia will accept a challenge when directly called out, and I'm not convinced that dieno truly wished to duel adam in a townie way.... the way that a townie would want to duel somebody they have a strong scumread on. Keir and dieno are similar in this regard as they express a very diplomatic attitude towards dueling. They will accept a duel, but it looks more like they are accepting because of appearance reasons rather than scumhunting reasons. If I was called on to duel, I would only be willing to duel a select few people. This is because as town you are only willing to duel your strong scumreads. Deino didn't express a "i think he's scum and i'm willing to own up to my read" attitude, he had a "if he wants to duel me, i'll duel him" attitude. That is not a townie-motivated approach to dueling.
+ Show Spoiler [stuff i've already said] +On February 27 2013 11:39 thrawn2112 wrote:ok this is the type of bs that's pissing me off: Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 11:33 Dienosore wrote:Keirathi + Show Spoiler +
Timeline:
- disagrees with Thrawn's stance to just 'let things happen as they will'
- says Thrawn is currently his biggest scumread
- puts suspicion on Adam due to his rogue bravado
- tries to advance our dueling policy
- says he is willing to duel Thrawn
- argues a bit more with Adam about dueling policy
- gets called out by Adam
- general defending
Summary:
As I said earlier, I was completely surprised by Adam snapping on Keir. I've gone through Keir's filter a few times since the duel was called, but I still can't find anything that sticks out as obviously scum motivated. Other than a bit of back and forth banter mostly discussing dueling policy, he has kept a relatively low profile. The only real aggression shown has been directed towards a scummy looking Thrawn. It's true his activity has been a little slow, but not so much that I'd see any reason to raise any alarms. Overall, I'd say he has been playing it overly safe, if anything.
You were "completely surprised by Adam snapping on Keir." You looked at keir's filter and couldn't find anything scum-motivated. Are you fucking serious? How could you possibly not be suspicious of keir, regardless of what you think about adam? On February 27 2013 11:45 thrawn2112 wrote:dienosoe let's walk though that summary of kei's play Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 11:33 Dienosore wrote:Keirathi + Show Spoiler +
Timeline:
- disagrees with Thrawn's stance to just 'let things happen as they will'
- says Thrawn is currently his biggest scumread
- puts suspicion on Adam due to his rogue bravado
- tries to advance our dueling policy
- says he is willing to duel Thrawn
- argues a bit more with Adam about dueling policy
- gets called out by Adam
- general defending
Summary:
As I said earlier, I was completely surprised by Adam snapping on Keir. I've gone through Keir's filter a few times since the duel was called, but I still can't find anything that sticks out as obviously scum motivated. Other than a bit of back and forth banter mostly discussing dueling policy, he has kept a relatively low profile. The only real aggression shown has been directed towards a scummy looking Thrawn. It's true his activity has been a little slow, but not so much that I'd see any reason to raise any alarms. Overall, I'd say he has been playing it overly safe, if anything.
anyone. Here are your main points about keir, taken from that bottom paragraph: "Other than a bit of back and forth banter mostly discussing dueling policy, he has kept a relatively low profile" "The only real aggression shown has been directed towards a scummy looking Thrawn" "Overall, I'd say he has been playing it overly safe, if anything." Those things are not suspicious? wtf On February 27 2013 11:57 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 11:50 Acrofales wrote:On February 27 2013 11:45 thrawn2112 wrote:dienosoe let's walk though that summary of kei's play On February 27 2013 11:33 Dienosore wrote:Keirathi + Show Spoiler +
Timeline:
- disagrees with Thrawn's stance to just 'let things happen as they will'
- says Thrawn is currently his biggest scumread
- puts suspicion on Adam due to his rogue bravado
- tries to advance our dueling policy
- says he is willing to duel Thrawn
- argues a bit more with Adam about dueling policy
- gets called out by Adam
- general defending
Summary:
As I said earlier, I was completely surprised by Adam snapping on Keir. I've gone through Keir's filter a few times since the duel was called, but I still can't find anything that sticks out as obviously scum motivated. Other than a bit of back and forth banter mostly discussing dueling policy, he has kept a relatively low profile. The only real aggression shown has been directed towards a scummy looking Thrawn. It's true his activity has been a little slow, but not so much that I'd see any reason to raise any alarms. Overall, I'd say he has been playing it overly safe, if anything.
anyone. Here are your main points about keir, taken from that bottom paragraph: "Other than a bit of back and forth banter mostly discussing dueling policy, he has kept a relatively low profile" "The only real aggression shown has been directed towards a scummy looking Thrawn" "Overall, I'd say he has been playing it overly safe, if anything." Those things are not suspicious? wtf What is your conclusion? that dienosore is hella scummy for not being suspicious of obviously scummy keir. keir's actual alignment probably doesn't even factor into it. town dienosore should not be looking at someone who hardcore lurked and only introduced 1 unique point to the thread and seeing them as not scummy.
The theme of those posts is that Dienosore isn't suspicious of a obviously suspicious lurker. This is a scumtell. I scumslipped exactly like this in lviii by not being suspicious of a guy who dropped off in activity. I have no issue with the fact that he chose adam as his scumread. The problem is when he fails to understand the idea that keir's lurking is suspicious. He eve labels keir's play as "overly safe, kept a relatively low profile, etc." Yet he is not suspicious of keir at all for those things!
He is mostly absent from the most important part of the thread thus far, the part of the thread where a scum was up for lynch. He pushes nothing during this time, he has no agenda except to make weak arguments to defend keir here:
On February 27 2013 12:16 Dienosore wrote:
@Adam: If you really were under zero pressure and not in danger of a lynch, then why not let Thrawn and Keirathi duel it out? I'm 95% sure that's the way the duel was heading until you jumped in. Why put yourself in danger like this?
@Thrawn: Adam has made an equal number of reads this game. Considering how the duelers are pretty similar in this regard, I don't see how their volume has anything to do with determining their alignment in this situation.
On February 27 2013 12:31 Dienosore wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 12:26 thrawn2112 wrote:
I don't have a problem with dieno looking at kei/adam and deciding that adam is the scummier one. The problem is when he summarizes keir's play as lurky, safe, etc and doesn't seem to be the least bit suspicious. Of course its a little suspicious, but we are still so early into it that I pretty much have that level of suspicion on everyone. Once you start doing big things to needlessly shake up an already unsure game, then you get put on a different level.
and he throws this at Oats:
On February 27 2013 16:05 Dienosore wrote:Wait, hold on... Did I read this right? Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 15:38 Oatsmaster wrote:
I dont think that Keirathi is gonna flip scum, but on the slight chance that he is trying not to draw flack for his play, I am in favour of lynching him. Quoting this for preservation purposes.
Not only does this seem ridiculously forced, dieno hasn't done anything with it. His only mention of or interaction with Oats was asking oats to clarify something somebody else said.
so yeah.... we should lynch dieno tomorrow. the only question should be how do we lynch him. I'm 100% in favor of letting him pick his opponent.
hapa, idk what thread you are reading where my play suggests i'm a survivor, or that I haven't been fearless, or that i could have possibly bussed keir. what is your point with all that? Are you wanting to lynch me?
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ebwop:
*only interaction or mention of oats since
near the bottom there right before that last break
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On March 01 2013 07:53 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 07:47 Adam4167 wrote:
I expect a certain level from you, and when you place someone in your top 4 town reads that opens with a post like Deino's, and responds to my aggression like he did, I am concerned that you are not seeing what I consider is right in front of your face.
You've since dumpstered his initial post, for exactly the same reasons that I did on day 1, yet after your first read on day 1, he was 'top 4 town' and now hes scum for the same post.
Two ways of reading that post: scum flailing around or newbie town flailing around. At the time I gave him doubt. If YOU had made that post I would have nailed you to the cross. Or Hapa. However, it was someone who is legitimately a newbie town and I remembered making strange nonsense reads. Two things have changed since then: 1. Newbie town generally gets its shit together with as little pressure as there was on him and starts trying to contribute. Dieno never made that transition. So that leaves the "scum flailing around" explanation. 2. I refreshed my meta read on Dieno and found that while his reads were sometimes nonsensical, he took firm viewpoints and argued for them. Both of these point to a scum Dieno, rather than a town Dieno. Anyway, I caught scum D1. WTF is your problem.
'WTF is my problem?' You think i'm 3rd party, why do you give a shit what my problem is!
This is a setup that favors the bus.
I bet my life that its 11 v 4, considering scum have only shown a single KP all game and we have no evidence of 3rd party -which means their KP will most probably remain fixed at 1.
That is a bus-setup as losing additional members does not impact KP potential, as long as they get one of their members in towns good graces, they can ride it out til end game while people work out the carnage. Go read Arkham City, Radfield identified a bus-friendly setup, and the entire scum team filled the town with so many bogus reads that when it came to endgame, we were completely lost.
I consider it likely that you bussed Keirathi due to his poor activity. I think you tried to save Deino D1 because double bussing seemed excessive but his play was so hard to defend that you got caught out.
But of course, I cant confirm any of my suspicions until Dieno is dealt with.
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Also, Adam, you know my scumplay. You were in a team with me. You should know better than to think I would hard defend an opening post like THAT from a scumbuddy.
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So I bussed Keirathi wayyy before it was necessary and hard defended Dieno's scummy posts. You really think I am that bad of a scum player?
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You may be a 3P, but you have swing in the town. I prefer to correct your deluded ideas.
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I'm taking a break. Hope you come to your senses in the meantime.
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I never read more than 5 pages of that game, I spent the weekend in a cell, hence the modkill.
I think you were dealt an AFK team and tried to make something out of it, yes.
I could be wrong, you are not my priority right now. Dieno I feel far more strongly about. But these are the thoughts running around in my head, and I have no reason to hide them.
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@ Yamato
You bring up two main points about why Acro could be scum:
1) His double-lynch idea despite thinking Kei was super-scummy
2) His obsession with Adam being a 3rd party
While I hate the logic behind Acro's stances, I don't see anything sinister in it. If he was really convinced that Adam was a hostile 3rd party, then it would make sense for Acro to want to see both duelers dead. I think Acro is being too much of an asset to the town right now to even consider dueling. He's active, vocal, and has been town-leader for the last few days.
That being said, all this stuff on Acro makes me REALLY want to see Syl and Dieno flip. Acro's been very vocal about both those players, and particularly notable is his sudden change of heart on Dieno (from lynch-bait to sure-mafia).
If syl flips scum, this will vindicate Acro considerably. I'll be really concerned about Acro if both flip town or if we get a Syl-town/Dieno-scum flip.
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On March 01 2013 07:34 Hapahauli wrote:@ SylShow nested quote +Idealistic, but you would think that the 4th scum (if any) would at least have the brains to stop this from happening if this was true. Even I would've seen from a mile away that leaving my vote on Adam would've been a dumb move if I was going to sleep with chances to hammer at any time (mainly saying this about the second half of the day, I would probably still vote at the time I did) leaving my vote exposed as scum. Deino who seems to have been in a similar situation following suit would mean that both of us being scum were very confident that town would vote for double lynch / Adam. Adam getting killed was still far off, and with the votes being 3-4 or something before the real movement happened, it's not like scum could convincingly say that it was in the bag at all.
So if I was scum, it would've been very very easy for me to simply withdraw my vote under the "Oh keir has done nothing for this half of the day, I'll re-evaluate." context. But I didn't. I stood my ground, and gave more reasoning. tl;dr You are at least half wrong about this, so assuming there are 4 scum, you're still missing one. "My vote was too scummy for me to be scum" isn't a very good defense. What's very suspicious about your vote (and Dieno's) is how early you were on Adam, and how "clean" your play has been so far. You haven't done anything to stick your neck out - you just stick to one straight story and "blend in" while pursuing mafia objectives (lynching Adam).
Sure isn't a good defense, but do explain how you can say with that I'm pursuing mafia objectives by trying to lynch someone we don't know the alignment of because they haven't flipped? I haven't made excuses for voting Adam, trying to make myself look any better because of a scum flip, because that would just be me lying to you all. I haven't had any regrets having my vote on Adam because he seemed like the worse player at the time, even though that's shown to be wrong.
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hapa, idk what thread you are reading where my play suggests i'm a survivor, or that I haven't been fearless, or that i could have possibly bussed keir. what is your point with all that? Are you wanting to lynch me?
No I don't want to lynch you for now. There are three people I want to see dead before I even consider lynching you (Dino, Syl, Cora).
As for why I think you're a third party, you are more passive than I'm used to seeing out of you. You're also more aggressive than I'm used to seeing out of your scum-games. You fall somewhere in the middle, and the simplest explanation is that you're a Third Party.
In the last few town-games I've seen out of you, you started off with stupid random comments/votes designed to spurr discussion, and you were super-active in the early-game as well. You started off the opposite this game. In addition, I'm used to seeing more scum-hunting contributions from you. Your only major contribution is your recent case on Dieno...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=75#1489
which is a complete rehash of my own case on him on Day 1. Not to mention that it's an overkill case that serves no purpose, since virtually everyone here wants to see Dieno hang.
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On March 01 2013 08:49 Sylencia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 07:34 Hapahauli wrote:@ SylIdealistic, but you would think that the 4th scum (if any) would at least have the brains to stop this from happening if this was true. Even I would've seen from a mile away that leaving my vote on Adam would've been a dumb move if I was going to sleep with chances to hammer at any time (mainly saying this about the second half of the day, I would probably still vote at the time I did) leaving my vote exposed as scum. Deino who seems to have been in a similar situation following suit would mean that both of us being scum were very confident that town would vote for double lynch / Adam. Adam getting killed was still far off, and with the votes being 3-4 or something before the real movement happened, it's not like scum could convincingly say that it was in the bag at all.
So if I was scum, it would've been very very easy for me to simply withdraw my vote under the "Oh keir has done nothing for this half of the day, I'll re-evaluate." context. But I didn't. I stood my ground, and gave more reasoning. tl;dr You are at least half wrong about this, so assuming there are 4 scum, you're still missing one. "My vote was too scummy for me to be scum" isn't a very good defense. What's very suspicious about your vote (and Dieno's) is how early you were on Adam, and how "clean" your play has been so far. You haven't done anything to stick your neck out - you just stick to one straight story and "blend in" while pursuing mafia objectives (lynching Adam). Sure isn't a good defense, but do explain how you can say with that I'm pursuing mafia objectives by trying to lynch someone we don't know the alignment of because they haven't flipped? I haven't made excuses for voting Adam, trying to make myself look any better because of a scum flip, because that would just be me lying to you all. I haven't had any regrets having my vote on Adam because he seemed like the worse player at the time, even though that's shown to be wrong.
Yeah sure townies can certainly have their vote in the wrong place in the wrong time. For example Oats did something similar voting-wise to you, and I think he's town.
The issue with you is that your vote was in the wrong place, you're extremely lurky, and you haven't been sticking your neck out at all.
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EPT
