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Oatsmaster
United States16627 Posts
Adam: if you're town, you're a selfish douche who is not playing in town's best interest. I will reevaluate you, but I really feel like policy lynching you for playing like this. I will now fight my instincts, because I don't think policy lyncing idiots is a good idea, but that's the way I feel right now. I dont know Acro, this doesnt really seem like you think that Adam is scum. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17726 Posts
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Sylencia
Australia1057 Posts
On February 26 2013 18:58 Oatsmaster wrote: You dont even care about whether adam or Keir is scum, and you show no intent of trying to find out. Did you not read the reason why Adam voted Keir? Or you read it and thought it was bullshit, what is bullshit about it? I've read the 'case' on why Adam voted Keir, but all it literally says is 'what you're saying doesn't make me scum, thus you must be scum'. It's nowhere near solid and comes completely out of nowhere. On February 26 2013 16:25 Adam4167 wrote: I don't even know what the hell you're arguing anymore. Whatever it is, it isn't making me scum. His duel against Keir basically ends up feeling like OMGUS, especially with the addition of the last sentence. The other thing which disturbs me when rereading the filter again is the amount of times he feels he needs to either point out he's town or to mention things which would make you scum/town - then following the majority of the points he makes to try reinforce his position. On February 25 2013 11:39 Adam4167 wrote: Dropping weak scum reads will still draw attention to you, something scum try to avoid generally. They also have to be backed up with some form of sense or logic or they are seen for exactly what they are, garbage. Case against Dieno: weak. Thus, must be less scummy right? On February 25 2013 13:28 Adam4167 wrote: Mafia that sit in the spotlight almost always fry, and as a general rule, try to avoid it. The likelyhood of either of us being scum is not good as a result. He was sitting in the spotlight for the majority of the duel phase, and he said it outright that the chance of him being scum is therefore lowered. On February 26 2013 14:30 Adam4167 wrote: Now that my internet is recovered: I fully support this duel between Thrawn and Keirathi. Thrawn is taking ownership of his reads, something I mentioned yesterday, I respect that. That case against me was god awful, stinks of nothing-scum-case. It does nothing to illustrate why i'm scum, only that I was using logic that shows I think i'm town and everyone else should think it too. Tells people to think he's town. [QUOTE]On February 26 2013 14:57 Adam4167 wrote: [QUOTE]On February 26 2013 14:49 Keirathi wrote: I would be fine dueling thrawn. [QUOTE]On February 26 2013 14:30 Adam4167 wrote: My goal was to a) illustrate that I thought Yamato was town for going against the grain, as I was, and b) to stop people (corazon mainly) wasting time on focusing on someone I feel is clearly not scum. I feel like it did a good job of accomplishing those objectives.[/QUOTE] Appeals to his case on being more townie by making a comparison of play between himself and Yamato. Since he says that Yamato isn't scummy for going against the grain, he shouldn't be considered it either. Yet another 'I'm town' statement. [QUOTE]On February 26 2013 15:04 Adam4167 wrote: [QUOTE]On February 26 2013 14:51 thrawn2112 wrote: [QUOTE]On February 26 2013 14:31 Adam4167 wrote: [QUOTE]On February 26 2013 14:27 thrawn2112 wrote: it doesn't have to be thrawn vs kei. in fact I prefer it to be kei vs someone else however i'm willing to do it[/QUOTE] If you will not, I will. My 'bravado', ask Keirathi put it, was not an act.[/QUOTE] I'm getting the feeling that you have a town read on me.. is your scum read that strong on kei that you're willing to put both of us up for lynch? How's your read on deino going?[/QUOTE] I have you leaning town, yes, in virtue of your defending me against what I consider a sub-par case. I think his play this game is lacking the curiosity and conviction i see in most townies, with most of his posts being general statements as opposed to pursuing someone to discern their alignment. He does not seem to be looking for scum. My read on Deino remains unchanged leaning frustrated. Hes come back, posts more nothing, then slinks off again. I was willing to give him some time, as we had plenty, but my patience is evaporating. He never explained his 'Marv-Snarfs' connection that doesn't even exist, nor answer my question on Oats. [/QUOTE] 1) Leaning towards someone else being town based on a single defense is ridiculous. When I read this I interpret it as "Since I'm town, you are town since you defended me, and since I'm saying it you know I'm town now". Am I looking at it too deeply? 2) I should've mentioned this above but I missed it before - this statement isn't false but the scummiest part about Keir there is that he wasn't scum hunting. If that was his case, his duel would've been much better suited who completely fit his point and more (like me, but for some reason he never really commented about my lack of activity at the time) 3) And again, I'm back to his original point about getting scum reads 100%. He rushes in on a case built on nothing much but frustration instead of building a stronger case on someone he had a slight scum read on. [QUOTE]On February 26 2013 15:20 Adam4167 wrote: This point isnt going anywhere because there is no point to begin with. Even if I were stepping forward to 'duel on towns behalf after yamato died or otherwise', how does that show only scum motivation? It could just as easily be coming from a townie wanting to fight. Bad case.[/QUOTE] Very soft statement about his town side again, but this one is pushing it as a case because it's pretty natural to explain it in this manner. In any case in a span of 5 hours he's felt the need to point out he's town or he's townie based on perceived town activity about 6 times. I understand it when people make defenses and use it once maybe twice in it appealing to the fact they are town because of X reason, but when you feel you need to reinforce it once an hour, it's not right. | ||
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Sylencia
Australia1057 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain17726 Posts
On November 01 2012 08:33 Adam4167 wrote: Well this got interesting. Blazinghand, you are cherry picking my game history to support your meta case. X marks the spot. You ignore more recent games such as Aperture Mafia and wiggles mini mafia II - where I did not launch into cases with my first post - both of which I was town. You're taking a year old game, my FIRST game, and a post that I later admit to being drunk when writing and use that as evidence for aggression which you believe is lacking in this game. Zebras. I handled you more carefully this game because I've seen your horrendous tunnel-vision in TL51 - something that was a large distraction to town. Bolded for emphasis. Adam is not an aggressive jump-the-gun kinda guy as town. Now he claims this hasn't worked for him in Chrono Trigger, however I didn't see him change his style in LVIII or when he replaced into LIX. Why does he suddenly feel the need to change up his playstyle now? Given that his playstyle is wildly different from any previous meta, we have to take it at face value. I have already stated why I think the gung-ho duel is scum motivated, but just to hammer in the point, here is bang bang mafia 2: + Show Spoiler [brief synopsis] + MZ seriously jumping the gun (first post of D3): On June 16 2012 17:27 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: After the game I'll tell you what you should have done differently supersoft. ##Shoot: Supersoft Ya'll ready for a pro gf snipe? Of course SS flipped town. This then dominated the thread for the next day, until MZ was shot and flipped godfather. The moral of the story: a town Adam would be more interested in the discussion. Shooting before town has had a real chance to consider and discuss is a scum move. It was so in the only other game with a similar mechanic and it is so here. I browsed Keirathi's filter in what seems to be his only scumgame ever and I agree that he was active and manipulative there. However, he now has a ton of town games loading on pressure to perform as scum. I wouldn't put too much stock in Keirathi's scum meta. His play is still wildly different from his town meta, which is far more developed. I still don't see enough in his play to consider him town. For now, therefore: ##vote: Double Lynch Lets just kill both of them. I think there's an excellent chance that one of them is scum and at the moment I cannot decide which one. I admit it seems highly unlikely they're both scum, but neither has given me a reason to think they're town. Seeing as we can kill both of them, I currently see no reason not to. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16627 Posts
I agree that Adam's meta is different from his scum games, and that this was a really stupid, but exciting thing to do, but isnt exactly alignment indicative. I also agree that him pointing out the meta differences HIMSELF and calling himself townie under not much pressure is scummy. So Adam is null, leaning town cause I think that this was kinda too obvious to do it as scum, what was the point? Keirathi. I havent exactly been enthused about his activity so far, its not really alignment indicative though. The few posts he has made make a lot of sense, and at this point I dont think he is scum. He pushed thrawn and adam, his comment about adam claiming that he was so townie makes sense and is a thing that I dont really think anyone else picked up on. Yes I 180ed on Keirathi. Why you ask? Because after a little break, and rereading his filter without being irritated by his disappearance, I like what I see. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17726 Posts
On February 26 2013 20:59 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok, I agree that Adam's meta is different from his scum games, and that this was a really stupid, but exciting thing to do, but isnt exactly alignment indicative. I also agree that him pointing out the meta differences HIMSELF and calling himself townie under not much pressure is scummy. So Adam is null, leaning town cause I think that this was kinda too obvious to do it as scum, what was the point? Keirathi. I havent exactly been enthused about his activity so far, its not really alignment indicative though. The few posts he has made make a lot of sense, and at this point I dont think he is scum. He pushed thrawn and adam, his comment about adam claiming that he was so townie makes sense and is a thing that I dont really think anyone else picked up on. Yes I 180ed on Keirathi. Why you ask? Because after a little break, and rereading his filter without being irritated by his disappearance, I like what I see. Great, you have a town read on both of the lynchable players. Who do you want to kill right now? | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16627 Posts
Your meta read on Adam makes sense, along with the history lesson. | ||
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Adam4167
Australia1426 Posts
On February 26 2013 19:23 Acrofales wrote: Adam: if you're town, you're a selfish douche who is not playing in town's best interest. I will reevaluate you, but I really feel like policy lynching you for playing like this. I will now fight my instincts, because I don't think policy lyncing idiots is a good idea, but that's the way I feel right now. Well, I am town and you can call me whatever names you please, I give not a shit. I cant even promise that this wont happen again if I survive this cycle. + Show Spoiler + On February 26 2013 20:59 Acrofales wrote: Okay, my meta-analysis of Adam is pretty much done and confirmed my earlier thoughts about him. He is not a Kush-esque player who is prone to doing crazy shit because he feels like it. Here is his self-analysis from WLIIA: Bolded for emphasis. Adam is not an aggressive jump-the-gun kinda guy as town. Now he claims this hasn't worked for him in Chrono Trigger, however I didn't see him change his style in LVIII or when he replaced into LIX. Why does he suddenly feel the need to change up his playstyle now? Given that his playstyle is wildly different from any previous meta, we have to take it at face value. I have already stated why I think the gung-ho duel is scum motivated, but just to hammer in the point, here is bang bang mafia 2: + Show Spoiler [brief synopsis] + MZ seriously jumping the gun (first post of D3): On June 16 2012 17:27 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: After the game I'll tell you what you should have done differently supersoft. ##Shoot: Supersoft Ya'll ready for a pro gf snipe? Of course SS flipped town. This then dominated the thread for the next day, until MZ was shot and flipped godfather. The moral of the story: a town Adam would be more interested in the discussion. Shooting before town has had a real chance to consider and discuss is a scum move. It was so in the only other game with a similar mechanic and it is so here. I browsed Keirathi's filter in what seems to be his only scumgame ever and I agree that he was active and manipulative there. However, he now has a ton of town games loading on pressure to perform as scum. I wouldn't put too much stock in Keirathi's scum meta. His play is still wildly different from his town meta, which is far more developed. I still don't see enough in his play to consider him town. For now, therefore: ##vote: Double Lynch Lets just kill both of them. I think there's an excellent chance that one of them is scum and at the moment I cannot decide which one. I admit it seems highly unlikely they're both scum, but neither has given me a reason to think they're town. Seeing as we can kill both of them, I currently see no reason not to. Interesting analysis. Wrong though. In chrono you specifically lumped me in the same category as Kush. On November 21 2012 11:03 Acrofales wrote: It's no more silly than a pressure vote off the bat in a normal setup  How do you know you don't gain anything from bringing vets. It's greymist and I am expecting minigames, unconfirmed masons and other shenanigans. Having a player like kush or adam there is NOT a good idea, even if they are town. You define my town play as "cocky" right here: On November 26 2012 23:54 Acrofales wrote: Adam meta: Scum in LVI, town in Whose line is it. As scum he is far less cocky. As I said at the start of the game, though, my experience playing with Adam as either alignment is that he lurks the crap out of the thread and gets modkilled for inactivity. So in Chrono, you categorized me like Kush, yet here not. In Chrono, you found me town because I am cocky, yet here not. Why are you arguing with yourself? | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17726 Posts
On November 21 2012 11:56 Acrofales wrote: I've played with you in 2 or 3 games (can't remember if you were in SSM atm) and you were completely inactive in all of them. So... yes, I have a reason: you sign up and then maybe, if we get lucky, get the 1 post a day that is the minimum requirement to play. Prove me wrong and I will be a happy man! The only way in which I called your play similar to that of Kush is that I figured neither of you was useful to have around. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17726 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On November 22 2012 15:31 Adam4167 wrote: Kitaman, I liked what you were saying early yesterday but this post, I do not like: Why are you trying to ward people away from voting for sandroba? You are fear mongering that he 'might' be turning over a new-leaf as scum and as such, shouldn't vote for him on that basis. So far, all that you've done to indicate that you think sandroba is scum is to colour his name in red (along with syllo and marv) with no other explanation. Care to go into detail about why you think he is scum? Calling out a veteran. On November 23 2012 00:44 Adam4167 wrote: I like how syllogism is thinking. ##vote syllogism Justified sheeping. There's some more of this. In general, you are less inclined to blend and more inclined to speak your mind. While going over your CT filter I found: On November 25 2012 13:21 Adam4167 wrote: I find him townie because of his attitude towards the game and its what was lacking in sandroba's play. He sees something he considers strange, so he questions the person on it to try and gauge what the persons motives are, and hopefully gain some insight into their alignment. Some examples: link1 link2 link3 I find scum rarely do this, as they would rather just pounce on the person without actually giving them a chance to explain their behaviour, just in case the person has a reason for what they're doing, then the scum has to go find someone else to fabricate a case on. This is fake-able as scum, yes, but giving people a chance to explain themselves makes your job much harder. Bolded part sounds exactly like what you just did to Keirathi, heh? | ||
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Adam4167
Australia1426 Posts
I really wish I was scum, it'd make post-game far more bearable. | ||
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iamperfection
United States9635 Posts
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
On February 26 2013 09:30 thrawn2112 wrote: some of my earlier reads are now the opposite of what they were i'm pretty sure that iamp/yamato/oats are town I think there is probably scum among hapa/acro and i think it's way more likely that acro is scum there are a few low contribution players I don't like but chief among them is zarepath And then he bounces from hapa/acro to FOR SURE wanting to duel... Keirathi? But not to the point of ACTUALLY dueling him... just to the point of asking what OTHER people think about him dueling him. And his case came down to Keirathi only having a case against Thrawn based on meta... but isn't that, like, every single person in the thread? Everyone is surprised at Thrawn's performance this game based on his meta. Why isn't Snarf's tenuous Thrawn case scummier than Keirathi's? On February 26 2013 12:40 Snarfs wrote: Much promised look at thrawn: a) I'm not sure how he got different feels from iamp and yamato early game. Both seemed quite abrasive and had an "i don't care what anyone thinks of me attitude". Once I warmed up to one of them being town, it was easy to warm up to the other being town - seems contradictory to find one's way of acting townish and the other mafia-esque. b) I also see what people are saying about his random appearance trying to get hapa to duel someone when he was under pressure without any sort of explanation himself. c) Also, his read on Acro and follow up feels like he thought that since he made this post: [link] He feels like he should commit to a read on someone here: [link] I don't think Acro is a worthy candidate. This line of thinking feels forced. I'd definitely be fine with thrawn being one of the duelists. So why Keirathi? Why all the bravado about volunteering to be a duelist? No townie should want to be a duelist unless they feel super confident in their read -- at which point, they just ##Duel, not ask "DAE think my latest/greatest soft read is scum???" And in the end, he doesn't even have to do it. Thrawn made out like a BANDIT with this duel. I know I should be talking about adam/kier right now, but HOLY COW so many people got out of this one super well, including all of the lurkers/low contributors. All Sylencia has to do is vote and justify it; he doesn't have to forward unique reads on anybody but the two people. We could have spent 24 hours testing low contributors and seeing who their reads are when it has to be out of 11 other people, instead of just out of a pool of 2. Our ability to gain information has been CRIPPLED by a premature duel. We CANNOT do this again tomorrow. Marv was killed for his analysis, and his number one scum read was Thrawn.... and he's not even up for a duel? Even Thrawn himself seemed fatalistic about it (which isn't very townie IMO), and the fact he was "rescued" from this duel super early in the day is incredibly anti-town. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17726 Posts
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Oatsmaster
United States16627 Posts
Anyway what are you gonna do about it zarepath? I dont think whining would help town. Are you saying that Adam and Thrawn are scum buddies? Or something else? | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
As far as between these two players, I think Adam's ##Duel is the most anti-town thing either of them have done. But I honestly haven't even looked through their filters yet; I just read through the thread, was amazed that this even happened, and went on a rant. So I'll get back to you on that, but I really don't like what Adam did. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16627 Posts
Anyway I will look forward to those reads. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17726 Posts
On February 26 2013 23:01 iamperfection wrote: adam is a retard but kier is more likely to be scum he should die. Why does adam's action look like "retard town" and not like scum to you? | ||
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The Macho Man
171 Posts
On February 26 2013 23:55 Acrofales wrote: Why does adam's action look like "retard town" and not like scum to you? Why would adam as scum initiate a duel? seem to me he was far from being the most likely to be called out. | ||
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