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On February 26 2013 17:53 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 17:51 Adam4167 wrote:On February 26 2013 17:48 yamato77 wrote:On February 26 2013 17:46 Adam4167 wrote:On February 26 2013 17:44 yamato77 wrote:On February 26 2013 17:43 Adam4167 wrote:On February 26 2013 17:41 yamato77 wrote:
Now it's like the retarded end of day period where everyone's picking a wagon, only there hasn't been NEARLY ENOUGH discussion on these wagons to make either of them particularly attractive. Yet you didn't have a problem jumping on one instantly, even after declaring that you were going to sit on it for awhile? Yeah. OK. What I quickly realized was that you're more likely mafia than town for doing this. That's what that post you're trying to bury says, you know. I'm not burying shit. Its right there for everyone to see. My mafia play is lurky and passive, its right there in Hero mafia for everyone to see. If you think this is my mafia game, you're delusional. That is literally the only point in your favor right now, Adam. The only one. The only point in my favor is that i'm playing completely opposite to my scum meta? MMM GEE, SOUNDS LIKE A PRETTY GOOD POINT TO HAVE IN MY FAVOR. It's only a free-pass for so long, dude. At some point you have to judge people independent of their meta, which is what I'm doing. Your play here is mafia-motivated, as I've clearly outlined. You're not even arguing that part, you're arguing that you're somehow confirmed town because you aren't playing passive, which lets me in on the psychological mindset you have. You're concerned here with proving that you're town, not with proving that Keir is mafia, and that is exactly what Keir accused you of before.
I'm arguing your points as you bring them up. You are trying awful hard right now to emphasis just how scummy you suddenly think I am.
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On February 26 2013 17:46 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 16:37 Keirathi wrote:On February 26 2013 16:23 yamato77 wrote:
To look townie later in the game?
I don't see it. Just because he won't have to back it up doesn't mean it doesn't have town motivations.
And as I asked earlier, if this is your argument, why dies it apply to him and not me ? Not necessarily to look townie later, but that he gets to use the argument "Look guys, Im town because I did something abnormal!" The difference between you and him is that you aren't in here making that argument for yourself to buy town cred. Other people have made it for you. If someone else had said "I think Adam is probably town because he was willing to propose his own unique idea rather than just blending into the town sentiment" I would have probably agreed with them. But for Adam himself to say it triggers my paranoia reflex.
is this the townie response? he buddies you and puts words into adam's mouth. (afaik adam never actually directly tried using that logic to give himself townie points... there is only keir's accusation that that was what happened)
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My play is not mafia motivated. My actions are completely consistent with the mindset i entered this game with - when I see someone I think is scum, I will duel them.
You can cloud this all you like, it doesn't make it any less true.
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11589 Posts
On February 26 2013 17:56 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 17:46 yamato77 wrote:On February 26 2013 16:37 Keirathi wrote:On February 26 2013 16:23 yamato77 wrote:
To look townie later in the game?
I don't see it. Just because he won't have to back it up doesn't mean it doesn't have town motivations.
And as I asked earlier, if this is your argument, why dies it apply to him and not me ? Not necessarily to look townie later, but that he gets to use the argument "Look guys, Im town because I did something abnormal!" The difference between you and him is that you aren't in here making that argument for yourself to buy town cred. Other people have made it for you. If someone else had said "I think Adam is probably town because he was willing to propose his own unique idea rather than just blending into the town sentiment" I would have probably agreed with them. But for Adam himself to say it triggers my paranoia reflex. is this the townie response? he buddies you and puts words into adam's mouth. (afaik adam never actually directly tried using that logic to give himself townie points... there is only keir's accusation that that was what happened)
On February 26 2013 14:30 Adam4167 wrote:
Now that my internet is recovered:
I fully support this duel between Thrawn and Keirathi. Thrawn is taking ownership of his reads, something I mentioned yesterday, I respect that.
That case against me was god awful, stinks of nothing-scum-case. It does nothing to illustrate why i'm scum, only that I was using logic that shows I think i'm town and everyone else should think it too.
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adam where are you going with this back and forth with yamato? to convince him that you're town? do you think he's scum?
Also I'd like you to do a write up of why you think everyone should vote for keirathi. You pushed Dieno all game so I need to know why you dueled kei and not dino
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11589 Posts
So let me get this straight, you now think I'm mafia, too?
Hm. Okay, we'll see about that.
If you really think Keir is mafia, I expect some form of analysis that isn't "I think he's mafia because he thinks I'm mafia" when I wake up tomorrow. Otherwise my vote will be well-placed.
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yamato nice ignoring my question.
What made you 180 your reads so DRASTICALLY when you clearly professed to play the same way as adam earlier?
Looking at your filter, it looks like the only thing that is making you think that adam is scum is because of his duel and WIFOM surrounding it. Is there anything different?
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What I am trying to figure out is why someone would call for a duel, then do a complete 180 on their reads when they got their wish.
I'm going to take a breather and look at this in an hour or two.
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On February 25 2013 10:29 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 10:18 Sylencia wrote:On February 25 2013 10:11 Adam4167 wrote:On February 25 2013 10:07 marvellosity wrote:
right Adam, and it's people like you who will fuck up the game. How so? Why are you afraid to put your own life on the line, for someone who backs their reads as much as you usually do? Because this game doesn't revolve around just you and your reads. We're not going to have a read on a single person every duel phase, we're most likely going to have multiple people. If you put those people against each other, it works out a lot better for town because you see 2 players' defenses, and oust a potential scum. Putting yourself against the person you have a read against isn't likely to give that much option to the defender. Even if they are town, they are very likely doomed to die in that spot and it's a complete waste of a duel. My game revolves around me and my reads because its all I have to work with. Ill just have to make sure my reads are spot on then, to not 'completely waste duels', as you put it.
Some people are confident. So you would assume that if he was to start a duel, there would actually be a case to start one right?
On February 26 2013 16:25 Adam4167 wrote:
I don't even know what the hell you're arguing anymore. Whatever it is, it isn't making me scum.
Mess with the bull, you get the horns.
##Duel: Keirathi
On February 26 2013 16:51 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 16:45 thrawn2112 wrote:
##Vote: Keirathi
adam mind explaining why you had to call for the duel right now? Because I felt like it. I came here to duel, not vote and then duel when everyone agrees like a watered down version of a normal mafia game.
...
The sad thing is that I don't see Adam being scum, but just a detriment to town.
Regarding Keir, I feel like he's pretty much on the same area as I am, not much from him but the fact he's argued with Adam meant that he's been put up for a duel. I'm still null on Keir, but if this is the way Adam wants to play I don't think it's exactly going to help us out in the long run.
##Vote: Adam
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Lynch sylencia tmr, he doesnt care whether keir or adam is scum, wants to lynch useless townie.
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Wrong. Null read who has a chance to still be town once they have said a whole lot more is a lot better than a trigger happy also rather null read, but in this case leaning slightly towards being more scummy, if only via comparison between the two.
1) Letting Adam have his way and dueling/shooting people when he pleases is not in the interests of town. Given he's shown he only cares about his own reads, the chance of him hitting scum with his reads is less than 50% unless he's had a track record of being some superb reader. From what I've read, not really.
2) He mentioned dueling Keir before, but his filter shows he thought Deino was scummy. His feelings towards killing Deino clearly show a lot more intent to kill him than to Keir, and yet here we are suddenly deciding Keir than Deino. "I better make sure my reads are spot on then" he says, yet he doesn't wait for Deino to make a statement which may or may not have pushed him to duel Deino instead and just rashly chooses to go at it now. His actions have contradicted what he said he would do, and I'm surprised that people are voting for Keir here.
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You dont even care about whether adam or Keir is scum, and you show no intent of trying to find out.
Did you not read the reason why Adam voted Keir? Or you read it and thought it was bullshit, what is bullshit about it?
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syl why isn't keir scummy to you? what's so surprising about people wanting to lynch him?
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On February 26 2013 17:22 yamato77 wrote:
Despite my reads on the two of you before this, I will say that this was a truly horrid decision.
Going to have to sit on this for a while.
This.While my scumread on Keirathi is still there, he had finally gotten active enough to be evaluated and I was waiting for the answer to some questions. Similarly, thrawn was finally posting sensibly. There are over 12 hours left to duel, and Adam jumps the gun on ALL of this discussion. As if he doesn't want to give any time to reevaluate either of these players.
This alone is scummy. However, it is way worse if one of the other candidates for dueling being discussed (mainly thrawn,but potentially sylencia) is scum as well: if that's the case then this could be to save his teammates under the expectation he won't get lynched. It's an association with unflipped players, so don't take that too seriously, but all I can take away from this is scum motivations and I see NO town motivations for this duel.
Adam: if you're town, you're a selfish douche who is not playing in town's best interest. I will reevaluate you, but I really feel like policy lynching you for playing like this. I will now fight my instincts, because I don't think policy lyncing idiots is a good idea, but that's the way I feel right now.
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Forget the bad decision by adam,
Is Keirathi or Adam scum?
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Caught up with the last page of posts now. Yamato brings up a good point. Syl brings up another.
Keirathi's case was ALL about how Adam was only out to prove his townieness. Whether the case was good or not at the time is moot, I kinda liked Keirathi's later arguments for it. What I gave Adam townie points for are subtracted by Adam giving himself townie points for: it shows he was aware of how his posts are different from his scum meta. While I'm not sure it is as easy as that to change your scum meta, it is definitely possible to keep it up for a day, which is all he has done so far.
+ Show Spoiler [adam's post] +On February 25 2013 13:28 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 13:06 cDgCorazon wrote:On February 25 2013 12:55 Adam4167 wrote:On February 25 2013 12:47 cDgCorazon wrote:On February 25 2013 12:39 Acrofales wrote:On February 25 2013 12:35 iamperfection wrote:On February 25 2013 12:33 Dienosore wrote:
@marv: I've already mentioned that I trust you. If you sincerely believe that he isn't scum, then I will reconsider my hard stance. However, I would be a fool to not remain extremely suspicious until something happens that definitively clears up the situation.
@Hapa: He didn't just make a post about me. He called me out for a duel with his first post based on my first post. To me, this screams scum. why would you think someone being super aggressive is scummy should mean the opposite no? Aggression isn't a scum- or a town-tell. Aggression is simply aggression. Case in point: Mocsta NMM 37. Also, VE is pretty aggressive as either alignment. Just to name some examples. That said, Adam tends to lurk wayyyy too much as scum. His activity and early pressure on Dieno are uncharacteristic for his scum play. Too early to really tell, though. I still think Adam is lurking. Compared to most of the other people so far, he has been picking and choosing his times to talk very sparingly. Making one argument against Dieno and kind of attacking me/kind of not attacking me is really a drop in the ocean compared to the activity level the rest of the town has shown. I dropped my interest in you right about the time you said you wanted the two most abrasive and against-the-grain players to duel each other. That said to me that you are just being an emotional townie who wanted to get rid of people who weren't conforming to how you wanted the game played. I doubt scum would be making an argument like that, hence I have no interest in probing you further. Seriously, I was asked the question based off of 3-4 pages of the thread... If you seriously want to go hung-ho and call all of the shots, go ahead. There's no point in arguing with you, and I doubt my crappy internet can beat you to typing ##Duel once the Night period is over. Let's imagine a gung-ho player decides to duel someone that they have a scum read on, but the rest of the town does not agree with their reasoning. How do you choose between someone playing aggressive and someone you have a town read on? It's either going to result in the gung-ho player getting lynched or making a lynch that you are not happy with. Both are a waste of a Day cycle and are free kills for the scum basically. That's my biggest problem with you and Yamato's approach to the duel system. The fact that Yamato called me scum for it and that you are calling me emotional over it is absolutely ridiculous. I call you emotional because I just cant see the logic behind wanting the two people causing the most discussion to duel each other. Mafia that sit in the spotlight almost always fry, and as a general rule, try to avoid it. The likelyhood of either of us being scum is not good as a result. In your hypothetical, Id kill whoever was displaying the least value to the town, as in nomination mafia. We aren't all going to agree with every lynch, and there will come a time when you may have to choose between two people you have some form of a town read on. If we all unanimously agree on all our reads then either a) our reads are wrong because the scum are agreeing with us, or b) the scum team is so inept that they got clean swept. Reemphasizing the bolded part. This is incredibly disingenious. He seems afraid the point where he is going "against the grain" will be missed and therefore needs to reiterate that fact. Especially dropping his name in next to Yamato with the "either of us".
Dueling Keirathi brings this to the next step, given his motivation: I want to prove that I can read scum. Except, he didn't. He OMGUS'd based on a general thread consensus that Keirathi is scum. NOWHERE does he actually give a read on Keir, other than:
On February 26 2013 14:30 Adam4167 wrote:
Now that my internet is recovered:
I fully support this duel between Thrawn and Keirathi. Thrawn is taking ownership of his reads, something I mentioned yesterday, I respect that.
That case against me was god awful, stinks of nothing-scum-case. It does nothing to illustrate why i'm scum, only that I was using logic that shows I think i'm town and everyone else should think it too.
This doesn't say Keir is scum, it says Keir made a bad case. One which in hindsight wasn't even that bad. Adam is overly concerned with looking like town.
The whole game he has harped on about how Dieno is scum. If his real motivation is to prove his own reads are so good, why is he not dueling Dieno?
I will look at his meta now. What I do know is that Palmar caught him in such a gruesome manner in Hero mafia (it's all on video) that Marv, his scumbuddy, felt forced to bus him early on D1. If that isn't a motivation to try to change up your style, I don't know what is.
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On February 26 2013 19:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
Forget the bad decision by adam,
Is Keirathi or Adam scum?
Stop asking stupid questions and make up your own damned mind.
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I want to know what you think.
Lol.
Someone getting feisty huh?
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On February 26 2013 19:54 Oatsmaster wrote:
I want to know what you think.
Lol.
Someone getting feisty huh?
It's all there in the posts above. Why would I "forget" about the single-most salient thing the player has done all game?
Anyway, your stubborn lack of reading anything people say in the thread and then asking for the exact same thing moments afterwards is getting on my nerves. I will probably ignore most of your questions from now on. Start reading the fucking thread and posting contributions instead of stupid questions.
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@Keirathi: is GSL Open your only scum game ever?
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EPT
