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On December 27 2012 03:35 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 03:29 wherebugsgo wrote:
##unvote
##vote wherebugsgo
no, really.
Once I flip town you're basically fucked anyway, since the scum can be anyone.
Think about it, you have four major lurkers who have done nothing in more than 72 hours. You have eywa, you have stutters, you have sciberbia, and then you have vivax.
Promethelax hasn't done anything beyond being simply active. He even could be scum and literally the only reason he's not considered scum is because following the replacement he was active, unlike the other half of the player base.
Morbidius claimed cop and he has done nothing else. He's clearly going to have no impact on the game with his reads and it's even possible he's not town.
Then you have Palmar, who has done nothing either. He led a lynch on Wiggles but he's wrong about me despite being in the exact same situation last game.
So, tell me, who's scum? Oh, this is a gem. You vote for yourself, say you're going to flip town, and then prey on suspicion of EVERY OTHER PLAYER IN THE GAME all in one post. If they could all be scum why are you so convinced it's one of the lurkers? Why haven't you gone after one of these people AT ANY POINT IN THE GAME? Not to mention you once sided with the logic of there being a lot of basically confirmed town in the game and tried to count yourself among them. But now you're on the chopping block and that doesn't apply anymore? You're not helping your case.
BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL LURKERS.
LOL
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11589 Posts
I have reads on every player in the game.
It's telling when I find you more anti-town than Eywa.
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On December 27 2012 03:40 yamato77 wrote:
I have reads on every player in the game.
It's telling when I find you more anti-town than Eywa.
yes, you find me more anti town than the guy who hasn't posted in 72 hours.
That's because you're tunneled. Lol.
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On December 26 2012 16:04 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 16:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
Toad is scum, let's kill him, toad is scum, let's kill him, lalala la la laaaaaa
##vote Toadesstern
Bugs, would you do me the kindness of explaining this read of Toad, thanks.
sorry, I missed this.
it wasn't a read, it was simply me trying to get one on Toad. I was trying to push him to say something that would get me somewhere on him.
I realized pretty quickly he was town. (you can check my spreadsheet if you don't believe me)
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That is quite the overreaction Bugs. Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you? I explained to you several things, you repeatedly ignore me.
Here I explained why Morb isn't scum, you voted him the next day anyway.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=388487¤tpage=16#306
Here I explained why I don't think trying to assume things about the strength of a scumteam based on one of them playing like shit is valid.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17344249
I honestly hope this is your scum-play because if this is your town play you seriously need to have a look at how you treat the towns you're a part of. You've been consistently wrong with your primary pushes this game yet you have the audacity to yell at everyone and everything.
I don't understand all the negativity, it's christmas, people are busy, we're rolling scum anyway. Even if we fuck up one lynch we're still fine. We have so many confirmed or semi-confirmed townies that it's a pita for scum to take them out.
Please be scum.
##Vote Wherebugsgo
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I am not scum.
You're going to have to kill stutters. I am 95% sure of that.
Eywa could possibly not be scum but he's probably scum too. The problem is the trolling and the fact that a stutters+eywa scumteam seems "too easy". Vivax I'm still unsure about, initial read is town. Sciberbia is like 60% town. Promethelax is about the same.
Everyone else is probably town.
Anyway, look at this:
I did some more looking around and found these two games:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=370487&user=276621
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=378652¤tpage=37#723
Notice the distinct difference in posting style. The activity is about the same, but it was clear there was a difference before I even looked at his alignment. He takes a concrete stand and then backs it up with very specific pieces of evidence.
On September 29 2012 04:21 Stutters695 wrote:Note the red is just for highlighting, I'm not 100% sold on Kush as scum. The rest of my thoughts on Kush's play: I feel the beginning of their argument is pretty self-explanatory. Once Kush says "thank you now i won't be nk" is where I really got suspicious of him. Just look at how he has responded to Darth's case. "Oh those were jokes." Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 11:22 kushm4sta wrote:should not have looked at thread again now I have to respond... @debears yeah it's like exactly the same as last game. That's because I think up my first post almost word for word before I even get my roll pm. I did not get to follow through with it last game though since I rolled scum. Also sorry for the semiflame war. It was not that bad. Also he started it. Aside from that, I think the plan to start tunneling during the second half of the day is really bad. It helped us a lot last game as scum because we had an excuse not to vote for the people we were fosing. On September 28 2012 11:09 Djodref wrote:@Kush thank you now I won't be nk Was it also a joke ? How can you be so sure you are not going to be NKed ? Because the most active townie is tunneling me? Obviously I'm not going to be nk. And yes it was a joke but the best jokes have truth to them. It is a joke in that it's purpose was to be funny since obviously it doesn't help the scumhunt or my defense. If you weren't scumhunting or defending a case to prove you're town, why are you posting it?DarthPunk also throws up these two posts describing why he thinks Kush is scummy http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=370487¤tpage=8#151http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=370487¤tpage=8#157After the post in the first link, kush says Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 10:37 kushm4sta wrote:On September 28 2012 10:08 DarthPunk wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 28 2012 09:58 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 09:53 DarthPunk wrote:
Also I am not against policy talk but that first post where you talk policy was also scummy as hell. Why was that scummy? You say something that you know, since you've been watching me like a creeper, would piss me off, then you vote for me for responding to it. So why was my policy talk scummy? You didn't even mention that in your vote post. Here you go buddy  On September 28 2012 06:11 kushm4sta wrote:
I have been told many times I have a "scummy meta." Not really fair since last game I did roll scum so I didn't really get a chance to show improvement in my town play. I'm working on it guys. Apologetic and excusing scummy play before the game has really begun. Intrinsic guilt and belief that you will come across as scum. Not a townie trait at all.On September 28 2012 06:11 kushm4sta wrote:
This is my 4th newbie game so I'm experienced as possible to play in this game. Also I think rolling scum last game will help my reads greatly. I know how those fuckers think. Needlessly aggressive and otherwise irrelevant. Hinting you are town which is something scum worry about doing but townies are less inclined to do.On September 28 2012 06:11 kushm4sta wrote:
Everyone say how you feel about lurker policy.
I take kind of a middle of the ground stance. I mean if you have like 3 lurkers obviously you shouldn't waste 3 nights killing them off 1 by 1. If I think someone is scummy than I vote for that person. If I don't have any good scumreads then I will be in favor of lynching a lurker.
Usually what seems to happen is town can't decide so they bandwagon on some lurker at the last second. I'm not against this since it keeps pressure on possible scum.
I don't like people to say oh we are definitely lynching a lurker d1, because then scum feels safe as long as they are somewhat active.
My willingness to lynch a lurker decreases as the game progresses. For example I think lynching a lurker d3 is really bad.
Policy talk that says very little yet makes it seem like you want to contribute. Null tell at best but doesn't look great in the context of your post.On September 28 2012 06:11 kushm4sta wrote:
Message to scum:
I can smell you.
Thank you. now why you didn't do that at first I don't know. Instead you engaged in this flame war with me for really no reason.About my first post, yeah it was meant as mostly irrelevant. Just an introduction so people could get to know me. I prob should not bring this up but let me just say I have an unkilled undefeated streak atm. 3 games played and I have yet to die and yet to lose. Therefore, for perhaps selfish reasons, I have a strong will to self survival. I want people to know that I have a scummy meta so they don't lynch me for it. Apparently you were ready to lynch me in all 3 games even though I was town in 2 of them. I want to avoid that. On September 28 2012 10:09 DarthPunk wrote:There is a reason that you have never been night killed, even when you claimed JK day one. Secondly, you are not getting night killed because you are not town. So that wasn't an insult or a flame? You are saying I've never been nk because scum doesn't see me as a threat because I am bad. That's the real talk translation. Note: The only "flame" so far has been Kush calling him an asshole and how Kush interpreted the JK comment (fact: if you claim JK d1 you should be dead. The only way that doesn't happen is if people write it off because your play is so hard to read between town/scum). He addresses his own very first post and that is it. He says he wants to avoid DP lynching him because in 2 of his past 3 times he's been town. That bears no relevance to this. He hasn't addressed Darth's case at all. He's tried to discredit it through a strawman. After Darth's next part of the case (Post 157) Kush again ignores it (writes this one off as just claiming DP thinks he plays bad, so the case is invalid) and just responds to part of it. Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 11:03 kushm4sta wrote:I did bait your FoS intentionally actually. Before the nk post. On September 28 2012 08:34 DarthPunk wrote:
Any more talk of policy will get you FoS'd. On September 28 2012 09:03 kushm4sta wrote:
@Darth what are your thoughts on lurker policy? What is your opinion of policy lynches? What is your policy about policies? That's when I baited your fos.Your recent case against my defense basically says you think I play bad. Just because I don't fit your mold of how you want a townie to act does not mean I can't find scum. So we're to believe when you claim that particular joke post was to bait his FoS? So tell me, what did you learn by baiting his FoS? How does having distracted with you benefit the town? Why should we believe your other joke posts are jokes if this one had a purpose? His defenses have been non-existent other than "jokes" and "player sounds weird compared to townie." Are you fucking kidding me? Having your sentence sound weird (it doesn't by the way) is a bad thing compared to calling someone town before you make a case on them? No, I don't buy it. Finally, his only scum-hunting is this: + Show Spoiler +On September 29 2012 00:35 kushm4sta wrote:Darthpunk 1 You ask people what they think of me, Then when they don't tell you the exact answer you want to hear, you accuse them of defending me. What you meant was agree with me about kush or I will FOS you.
2 Did anyone notice how I went from DEFINITELY SCUM to a "distraction" instantly and without reason? Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 21:23 DarthPunk wrote:On September 28 2012 21:18 Djodref wrote:@corrosionI'm actually working in Korea so I don't enjoy so much free time  . But a big national holiday is coming this week end so I should be able to participate to the thread and finish to read all the guides. @everyone This also means party time ! I'm currently headed to get drunk all night so you shouldn't be hearing from me until tomorrow 12.00 pm KST. Also I'm accepting Kush explanation for calling Darth a townie but it would be better for him to refrain calling someone a townie or a scum without explanations later on... Wow. Really? That was not an explanation at all. It was a slip, and now everyone believes his weak as shit explanation. Anyway this is obviously going nowhere. And it is becoming a distraction at this point. ##Unvote##FoS: Kush @darthpunk
Why did you unvote me if you are certain I am scum?He explains his strategy: So why have you already FOSed 3 different people? 3 Darth's scumstrat is not so much to flame but to provoke. Show nested quote +If there was nothing to go on I would have changed tac. Turns out he is scum. So I try and get him lynched. Savvy?
This is from the post in which he FOSes Alsn. Not even his most inflamatory statement but pay close attention to his tone in his posts. Specifically, "Savvy?" Condescending, intimidating, irritating. He wants you to get pissed. 4 @Darthpunk at the end of newbie 26, marv said scum's biggest mistake was not nightkilling me. So your supposition that scum would never nightkill me is in itself ridiculous. It was an indirect flame, suggesting I play bad, and that's all that post was. Where to begin with this "case." 1) Before this post, he accused debears of defending you. There is no them. And quite I don't blame him considering debears said "let the man defend himself instead of trying to rally everyone active behind your cause so early. If he is scummy, the votes will come." despite your multiple posts and not having defended yourself once. 2) This is the only point I'm actually curious about but I can understand why he would. When everyone accepts your "answers" he can't pressure you because no one will back him up and you'll just accuse him of flaming and joke around some more. I would like to hear DarthPunk's response to this point though.3)Ok so what are his inflammatory statements? How does this correlate to him being scum? You accuse him of targetting you because of your playstyle, but here you do the same thing. The difference is he has facts to back up his. Your case reeks of OMGUS. 4) See my previous post. You're using the flaming to skirt the real issues. You should have been dead after you claimed JK. The only reason you have lived so long is because of bad play all around. Hapa says the mafia established the townieness of Kush. Again, you're making it seem like DP is completely off the mark when that isn't true and using to to say he is flaming you and his points are invalid (again strawman). Why aren't you afraid of a NK? Because of one post that isn't even a majority consensus? There is plenty of time where you could answer and actually contribute to where you might be a NK target, but instead <12 hours in you
Take a look at this quote, for example. He describes his thoughts on a player in detail, and displays clear effort in trying to establish his read of the player.
Compare that to this game:
On December 19 2012 12:26 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 11:10 Toadesstern wrote:
sup guys
I won't believe any claim Vivax does in the future if he happens to claim something at some point and I'd say we stick with it that way. Yeah millers should claim but claiming VT (read: as in the ROLE, not the alignment) is retarded. Looks awfully set-up. Not alignment indicating at all because he's either a mafia or a townie trying to achieve something like doding or catching a bullet through confusion.
Just saying, see you tomorrow. I'd need to go through his previous games to see how I'd feel if he claimed but I'll deal with that if he claims in the future. Not sure how I feel about writing something like that off this early. @vivax why claim vt so early? What are you hoping to achieve for the town by doing that? @Mr Wiggles why the vote on wbg in the first few hours before we even know if he's seen the thread? Is there some joke or strategy related to wbg I don't know about? Palmar if you've read the thread you'd see that millers are self-aware. What's the confusion about?
Notice how he doesn't have a clear opinion. He says he'd need to go look at past games, but never does.
He asks lots of questions, but again, gives no opinions of his own. He's not clearly putting effort forward in making his own reads. He's just making very nebulous statements and questioning things.
On December 19 2012 13:57 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 13:29 debears wrote:On December 19 2012 12:26 Stutters695 wrote:On December 19 2012 11:10 Toadesstern wrote:
sup guys
I won't believe any claim Vivax does in the future if he happens to claim something at some point and I'd say we stick with it that way. Yeah millers should claim but claiming VT (read: as in the ROLE, not the alignment) is retarded. Looks awfully set-up. Not alignment indicating at all because he's either a mafia or a townie trying to achieve something like doding or catching a bullet through confusion.
Just saying, see you tomorrow. I'd need to go through his previous games to see how I'd feel if he claimed but I'll deal with that if he claims in the future. Not sure how I feel about writing something like that off this early. @vivax why claim vt so early? What are you hoping to achieve for the town by doing that? @Mr Wiggles why the vote on wbg in the first few hours before we even know if he's seen the thread? Is there some joke or strategy related to wbg I don't know about? Palmar if you've read the thread you'd see that millers are self-aware. What's the confusion about? ##unvote
##vote stuttersYou're questions to vivax and palmat have already been asked. You're question to wiggles has come way after and its obvious it was a random vote (I'm not sure whether wiggles mentioned it in pregame). You sir are trying to look like you are contributing withiut actually doing so Right, because in three posts you can tell exactly how much I'm contributing? No one has asked Vivax why he posted it directly. The only thing even really related to it is a comment about a Kenpachi trap(whatever that is) and your vote and him responding with "maybe later." I can assume why he did that, but I want to hear what he says. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me. The other two are my fault, posting from a phone is a bitch, much harder to double check when I post. Let's talk about someone who hasn't been contributing through their posts though. Morbidius: If you think Yamato scumslipped, why haven't you said anything about it since calling it a scumslip? That's a pretty major accusation to throw out considering he's still the only miller. What changed, why aren't you pushing that at all?
Again, he wants to talk about morbidius, but there is no push here.
Asking questions, no opinion, no push. If he finds morbidius scummy why does he not push him for lynch? Day 1 stutters didn't push anything, day 2 he didn't push anything, and day 3 he's not pushing anything.
He was one of the last people on wiggles and said he'd explain it, never did. He got away day 1 without ever posting an opinion about wiggles, yet was never attacked for that.
Most of the things he DOES actually say, though, are simply relatively weak pushes and town reads. Anyone can do that.
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On December 27 2012 04:50 Palmar wrote:
That is quite the overreaction Bugs. Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you? I explained to you several things, you repeatedly ignore me.
Here I explained why Morb isn't scum, you voted him the next day anyway.
And I responded to you right afterward.
Which players would you consider to be strong at scum, currently in the game?
Assume I am town, and from my perspective that I view you to be town as well.
From my perspective do you see why I would say that I think the scumteam is weak?
I don't even understand how this opinion makes me scum in the first place. It's simply an assertion you've made and it has no relevance to my alignment.
On December 27 2012 04:50 Palmar wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17344249I honestly hope this is your scum-play because if this is your town play you seriously need to have a look at how you treat the towns you're a part of. You've been consistently wrong with your primary pushes this game yet you have the audacity to yell at everyone and everything.
This is simply you trying to make me look bad. If you "hope" for something it doesn't make you right, and regardless of your opinion, I don't give a fuck.
You can call me bad. I don't care. I am not scum.
On December 27 2012 04:50 Palmar wrote:
I don't understand all the negativity, it's christmas, people are busy, we're rolling scum anyway. Even if we fuck up one lynch we're still fine. We have so many confirmed or semi-confirmed townies that it's a pita for scum to take them out.
Please be scum.
##Vote Wherebugsgo
I don't celebrate Christmas.
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##unvote
##vote Stutters695
The other thing that is pretty notable about stutters is that he's almost entirely concerned with himself and his appearance. (yes, I know, that's one thing for me to say, but I have at least been trying to make sense of this game) This is in pretty stark contrast to the two games I posted earlier that show he is not like that as town.
For example, all of these quotes:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 19 2012 13:57 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 13:29 debears wrote:On December 19 2012 12:26 Stutters695 wrote:On December 19 2012 11:10 Toadesstern wrote:
sup guys
I won't believe any claim Vivax does in the future if he happens to claim something at some point and I'd say we stick with it that way. Yeah millers should claim but claiming VT (read: as in the ROLE, not the alignment) is retarded. Looks awfully set-up. Not alignment indicating at all because he's either a mafia or a townie trying to achieve something like doding or catching a bullet through confusion.
Just saying, see you tomorrow. I'd need to go through his previous games to see how I'd feel if he claimed but I'll deal with that if he claims in the future. Not sure how I feel about writing something like that off this early. @vivax why claim vt so early? What are you hoping to achieve for the town by doing that? @Mr Wiggles why the vote on wbg in the first few hours before we even know if he's seen the thread? Is there some joke or strategy related to wbg I don't know about? Palmar if you've read the thread you'd see that millers are self-aware. What's the confusion about? ##unvote
##vote stuttersYou're questions to vivax and palmat have already been asked. You're question to wiggles has come way after and its obvious it was a random vote (I'm not sure whether wiggles mentioned it in pregame). You sir are trying to look like you are contributing withiut actually doing so Right, because in three posts you can tell exactly how much I'm contributing? No one has asked Vivax why he posted it directly. The only thing even really related to it is a comment about a Kenpachi trap(whatever that is) and your vote and him responding with "maybe later." I can assume why he did that, but I want to hear what he says. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me. The other two are my fault, posting from a phone is a bitch, much harder to double check when I post. Let's talk about someone who hasn't been contributing through their posts though. Morbidius: If you think Yamato scumslipped, why haven't you said anything about it since calling it a scumslip? That's a pretty major accusation to throw out considering he's still the only miller. What changed, why aren't you pushing that at all? On December 20 2012 04:22 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 01:02 Vivax wrote:On December 19 2012 12:26 Stutters695 wrote:
@vivax why claim vt so early? What are you hoping to achieve for the town by doing that?
The question is what I was hoping to achieve with that before noticing that everyone except you knows this trick. The Kenpachi trap involves a wishy-washy reaction to a town claim being supposedly indicative of scum. I've actually never seen it work, but one can always try. I think that scum tends to focus on rather insignificant events to point out, trying to inject suspicion into the atmosphere, but then quickly retreating from the accusations when questioned. A guy doing that towards a miller claim in debears' last game got caught up in his hook and flipped red. In this game, I think that this behaviour fits, hmm, you. ##Vote Stutters695Oh and, before posting obvious fluff you should read the damn thread. On December 19 2012 13:57 Stutters695 wrote:
*snip*
No one has asked Vivax why he posted it directly. + Show Spoiler +On December 19 2012 09:50 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 09:48 Vivax wrote:
Hey debby, I've just finished writing a huge post in another game.
Admit it, you just voted for me cause I called you noob. I don't remember that at all actually. And mind explaining what pro-town purpose your claim has? On December 19 2012 13:57 Stutters695 wrote:
Let's talk about someone who hasn't been contributing through their posts though. Morbidius: If you think Yamato scumslipped, why haven't you said anything about it since calling it a scumslip? That's a pretty major accusation to throw out considering he's still the only miller. What changed, why aren't you pushing that at all? And this is you surprisingly losing interest in me when pressured. Looks like we've got an Adam 2.0 here. So because I asked a question after you went to bed and didn't rehash it throughout the night until I got an answer I'm a dummy. If I post about you all night I'll be accused of posting fluff again and thus you'll think I'm scum. I hadn't forgotten about you, this is the first post I've gotten time to do since I just got off work. It seems to me like you want me to be scum more than you're trying to find scum. On December 20 2012 05:49 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 04:41 Vivax wrote:On December 20 2012 04:22 Stutters695 wrote:
So because I asked a question after you went to bed and didn't rehash it throughout the night until I got an answer I'm a dummy. If I post about you all night I'll be accused of posting fluff again and thus you'll think I'm scum. I hadn't forgotten about you, this is the first post I've gotten time to do since I just got off work. It seems to me like you want me to be scum more than you're trying to find scum. Is this your defence?You post WIFOM to justify yourself for not posting? It's not about you not posting ABOUT me, it's about you not responding to the points you're accused of: Namely ignoring debears questions directed at me (or not reading the thread), and quickly changing focus to Morbidius when pressured. I said I missed his questions to you; I can't do shit about that now. Judge me on that ask you like. Don't put words in my mouth, I said nothing about posting frequency being related to you not being online. I said that you're holding me to a standard that means I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't. I explained why I "ignored" you because you said you were going to bed, thus there was zero point in repeatedly posting about it instead of moving on until you actually had time to respond. On December 20 2012 10:46 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 06:17 Vivax wrote:On December 20 2012 05:49 Stutters695 wrote:On December 20 2012 04:41 Vivax wrote:On December 20 2012 04:22 Stutters695 wrote:
So because I asked a question after you went to bed and didn't rehash it throughout the night until I got an answer I'm a dummy. If I post about you all night I'll be accused of posting fluff again and thus you'll think I'm scum. I hadn't forgotten about you, this is the first post I've gotten time to do since I just got off work. It seems to me like you want me to be scum more than you're trying to find scum. Is this your defence?You post WIFOM to justify yourself for not posting? It's not about you not posting ABOUT me, it's about you not responding to the points you're accused of: Namely ignoring debears questions directed at me (or not reading the thread), and quickly changing focus to Morbidius when pressured. I said I missed his questions to you; I can't do shit about that now. Judge me on that ask you like. Don't put words in my mouth, I said nothing about posting frequency being related to you not being online. I said that you're holding me to a standard that means I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't. I explained why I "ignored" you because you said you were going to bed, thus there was zero point in repeatedly posting about it instead of moving on until you actually had time to respond. I think it's weird that you don't want to post about people when they aren't in the thread, this isn't a chatroom, so I'll treat this as a bad excuse, so much for your judge me as you like. What is your opinion on Morbidius now? Doesn't look like you bother to scumhunt as much as you bother defending yourself. There was nothing to post about relating to you at that point. I asked my question and any other post would have essentially been a rehash of that qurstion in regards to my interaction with you. I'm only addressing this because I'm still on my phone and making cases is fucking hard when there aren't tabs to check. I'll have actual reads when I get home but I don't see how me providing you with more is a bad thing. On December 21 2012 06:34 Stutters695 wrote:
I'll be back home in a couple of hours and I'll give you guys all of my thoughts, answer any questions and the like. In the meantime to avoid a modkill
##Vote: Mr. Wiggles
On December 21 2012 15:27 Stutters695 wrote:Well I'm finally home. Leading up to my last post (other than my vote) before the lynch I had a slight townie vibe on Vivax. Although I know I'm town he obviously wouldn't and his tunneling of me felt like he honestly thought I was scum (understandable given my activity level). However what has made me change that read has been his style of posting. When he was just focused on me, it was understandable. I missed a quote, got called out on it, he felt my answer wasn't satisfactory. Whatever, I can understand that. What bugged me was his filter after attacking me. First he posts his "case" one me, then attacks wbg while I'm not in the thread over "shitting up the thread" instead of an actual case. + Show Spoiler +On December 21 2012 03:35 Vivax wrote:
Hi again chaps.
Did I miss a massive scumslip from Wiggles for causing this voting mayhem, or is it just Palmars Icelandic charm?
Catching up now.But you could help me by giving me a tl;dr summary of events :> This post stood out to me as well. So far in the thread he's just accused people of lurking and shitting up the thread. No actual cases but constantly calling out lurkers and providing a TL;DR on his lynch target instead Following up on that, after caliming to not reading the thread and his only contributions being attacking lurkers to this point. Following that, he votes Wiggles and he says he thinks Morbidius is more scummy yet doesn't post a case or even argue for his lynch "for the sake of consolidation." This feels like he's trying to actively lurk and I don't like it. My second biggest read is on Morbidius. The whole scumslip thing being a joke never sat well with me. He claims it was for a reaction, then votes for WBG without providing reasoning with the claim he'll do it later. Then he sheeps the case on Wiggles before random one liners into that lynch. I'm not sold on which of them is scum, but I feel like one of them is. Currently I'm leaning towards Vivax. On December 21 2012 15:43 Stutters695 wrote:
I'll have more tomorrow after going through full filters, but I'll try to answer any questions in the morning.
On December 24 2012 15:49 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2012 15:39 Promethelax wrote:On December 24 2012 15:27 Stutters695 wrote:On December 24 2012 15:01 iamperfection wrote:On December 24 2012 14:56 Promethelax wrote:
I knew liked you. So, where do we go from here? Just kill time until the NK comes through? We can pretend like the game is over so when stutters and Eywa come back they might slip their alignments. There is nothing to slip. Pull your heads out of the sand. I've accepted I'll die but again, when I flip town look into the active players. I do think ewya is scum (that the town should surrender stuff doesn't sit right in addition to his actual activity) but there is an active scum in this game. If it takes my death to get you to realize that, shoot me, lynch me, do whatever you have to do but at least start entertaining the option. So who is the active scum? I need more than a placid understanding that it is not you. As a townie you need to find scum. As a scum I need to to just claim and stop wasting my time. Have you thought about all those times you have been mislynched maybe being a reflection on your play? If you are town you need to do a much better job proving it to us here and now. I'm going to bed, but I'll talk more about it tomorrow. Trust me, I'm well aware I'm not the paragon of town excellence. I wish I had the time to contribute more, wasn't expecting the holidays to sneak up on me quite so quickly. Just for now even if you still have me as your #1 lynch target consider what you'll do after me. Brooding over me before I get another post out won't do anything.
This never happened. He's been gone for quite a while despite saying repeatedly that he'd be back to explain things.
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Vote Count
Eywa- (3) - Vivax, Promethelax, Morbidius
wherebugsgo (2) - yamato77, Palmar
Stutters695 (1) - wherebugsgo
Not Voting: sciberbia, Stutters695, Eywa-
Day ends in ~22 hours. Eywa- is currently set to be lynched
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First off, belated merry Christmas everyone.
@ Bugs: You aren't wrong that my last two games were more active, however I was both out of school and jobless during those two games. Whether or not you believe it is up to you obviously, but I've had time during this game more akin to newbie XXVI and XXVII. That's just to put them into context (I've been town in every game I've played). At this point debating/explaining that isn't going to change anyone's minds so I'm going to focus on explaining who I think is suspicious unless you have specific questions.
Bigger post coming up, starting to type it now. Just wanted to get this out here.
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On December 25 2012 22:53 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2012 21:44 wherebugsgo wrote:
I don't think stutters is scum anymore btw, between eywa and stutters he definitely seems to have said some things that scum would not say. We have a problem if eywa flips town though, but I doubt that atm.
Except for his latest posts looking like he doesn't give a fuck about getting lynched I don't see what makes him town in your opinion. His questions directed at me and debears in early game were nothing but fluff. He could have pushed me or Morbidius since he was so sure I "wanted him to be scum". To specify: - He asked me why I claimed VT. He did it AFTER debears noticed it, but said he asked cause no one did before, which isn't true. In the same post he recalls my answer to debears, but when I call him out on the lie, he says he didn't notice it.- When me and debears pressured him, he switched to Morbidius. When called out on the switch, he said it was cause I announced myself going afk and he saw no point in asking me questions. He also saw no point in updating his reads on me and Morb, or making cases against us before doing this:
On December 21 2012 06:34 Stutters695 wrote:
I'll be back home in a couple of hours and I'll give you guys all of my thoughts, answer any questions and the like. In the meantime to avoid a modkill
##Vote: Mr. Wiggles
He's made a bad case against me cause I delivered a read on Wiggles I had promised earlier, but he voted for Wiggles after asking him ONE question about his joke vote on WBG.I think that these points are already a very strong indicator that he is scum, and I wouldn't be surprised if he is along with Eywa. Palmar apparently gets easily fooled by lurking players, we could be one step ahead if he shot the right guy. It's Eywa or stutters today. We should not assume they're town just cause they start going invisible.
First the quote in red: Unless I'm misunderstanding this, at best this is him taking it out of context and at worst an outright lie. The post in question is here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=388487¤tpage=8#146 where I say I notice something about the kenpachi rule but not the type of answer I wanted (which I did miss). The first time he took me out of context on D1 I thought it was because he was tunneling, this much later, I don't think so.
This quote in Red/Bold is once again taken out of context. The purpose of voting was to avoid a modkill as I explicitly stated yet he makes it seem that my reason for voting Wiggles had anything to do with my one question to him and not that he was the obvious lynch candidate.
Other than Vivax and Eywa I'm not sold on WBG but he's so fucking hard to get a read on. I'm thinking Eywa + Vivax/WBG scumteam with a strong lean towards Vivax currently (WBG just feels weird but I can't substantiate it like I can with Vivax). I'll have a more lengthy post on WBG later, but in the meantime:
##Vote: Eywa
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EBWOP:
Orz, I was typing up the responses to that quote and forgot to put the first part in front of it. Here is the completed thing in its entirety.
Regarding Eywa:
I don't agree with Palmar's assessment that he will flip town. It's obviously a possibility and I won't go into too much detail since it seems he is going to die today, but the main points are these:
Since he is so inactive, there is nothing to read. What few posts he has done he hasn't shown any sort of remorse for what is anti-town play (almost five days without a single post except to vote is a really long time). When he does come back he says sorry once then goes back to posting worthless one liners. This is just experiences from newbies, but every time someone has been a hardcore lurker with no attachment to the thread, they were scum trying to exploit a weak town atmosphere. I'm inclined to believe that's the case here. If he became more active after coming back I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.
I do actually agree with Palmar that his case felt somewhat sincere, but then he immediately follows it up with this post:
On December 20 2012 02:33 Eywa- wrote:
Yeah, if Parlar doesn't die today then the town should probably just forfeit.
Not a scum slip by any means, but he's just so detached from the thread, even when he is posting a massive case. It just feels off.
I expect him to flip scum.
Vivax
I had a weak early town read on Vivax due to how hard he tunneled me. The only thing I didn't like was how he was ignoring that read on me not much later. Then this post still doesn't sit right with me:
On December 21 2012 08:25 Vivax wrote:
I've promised you a read on Wiggles, I've written quite a bit, but I don't even see the point in posting it since he's going to get lynched anyway.
I'll give you a tl;dr instead:
He first called out Eywa on his post on Palmar, then agreed with it.
He buddies WBG by agreeing on zelblade and defending him against me.
He starts throwing shit at the people voting for him.
The first point is pretty scummy since he's agreeing on a view he expressed suspicion against before, the other two are null, but bad play imo. I don't like buddying, and discrediting the people voting for you doesn't get you anywhere.
I'm voting for the sake of consolidation, I still think Morbidius is more scummy, if anyone would be so kind to actually force him to answer my question since he's feeling comfortable to avoid it while throwing shit at me?
##Unvote
##Vote MrWiggles
Not only was he the last vote on Wiggles but he also felt the need to justify switching via a TLDR without posting something he claimed he had written (bolded). Maybe it's just me but if you have nothing to hide, why wouldn't you let people see your motives instead of just rehashing the obvious points, given that you had already typed it? Between that and consolidating when there was absolutely no danger of a mislynch, short of all 3 scum switching off him, it feels more to me like he doesn't want to be seen as indecisive or sheeping. Which is exactly what I see when I look at this vote.
Day 2 is spent analyzing both Debears actions/claim and the night actions. Nothing of any real serious scumhunting here despite calling others out for exactly that as seen here + Show Spoiler + On December 22 2012 01:31 Vivax wrote:
I don't like that you're speculating about the NK, and you'll need something more than that vote to nail debears.
It's not uncommon for townies to have their vote on the wrong place, I'm rather worried about those having their vote suddenly on the right place for no strong reason, like Morbidius.
You'll note he suddenly had his vote on the right place via sheeping and later on speculates about actions in these two posts. Please note these aren't particularly terrible as the context is completely different, however he is trying to pin WBG via night actions. + Show Spoiler +On December 25 2012 09:19 Vivax wrote:
If you analyse what happened last night where two people claimed a roleblock but only the SK managed to shoot Toad, it only leaves Bugs as the roleblocked guy being scum.
I'm soon dropping an extensive post about it. For now, it's reason enough to vote for him.
##Vote Wherebugsgo On December 25 2012 10:18 Vivax wrote:
Actually, I'm a fucking idiot. Bugs can't be scum cause there can't be a town roleblocker targeting the cop and I have been jailed. Since Iamp let us know that it was his intention to jail Palmar and he thought he was SK when he claimed vig late, we can assume that Palmar has been jailed N1 and bugs roleblocked by scum, therefore he isn't scum unless there were shenanigans with scum withholding the roleblock, which I can't imagine.
That means that scum shot Palmar or Toad along with the SK N1.
##Unvote
##Vote Eywa
Of course at the end of it, nothing comes out of it and he still hasn't hunted scum in quite a while.
The last part I'd like to call attention to in this post is his latest post attacking me(in the spoiler):
On December 25 2012 22:53 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 25 2012 21:44 wherebugsgo wrote:
I don't think stutters is scum anymore btw, between eywa and stutters he definitely seems to have said some things that scum would not say. We have a problem if eywa flips town though, but I doubt that atm.
Except for his latest posts looking like he doesn't give a fuck about getting lynched I don't see what makes him town in your opinion. His questions directed at me and debears in early game were nothing but fluff. He could have pushed me or Morbidius since he was so sure I "wanted him to be scum". To specify: - He asked me why I claimed VT. He did it AFTER debears noticed it, but said he asked cause no one did before, which isn't true. In the same post he recalls my answer to debears, but when I call him out on the lie, he says he didn't notice it.- When me and debears pressured him, he switched to Morbidius. When called out on the switch, he said it was cause I announced myself going afk and he saw no point in asking me questions. He also saw no point in updating his reads on me and Morb, or making cases against us before doing this:
On December 21 2012 06:34 Stutters695 wrote:
I'll be back home in a couple of hours and I'll give you guys all of my thoughts, answer any questions and the like. In the meantime to avoid a modkill
##Vote: Mr. Wiggles
He's made a bad case against me cause I delivered a read on Wiggles I had promised earlier, but he voted for Wiggles after asking him ONE question about his joke vote on WBG.I think that these points are already a very strong indicator that he is scum, and I wouldn't be surprised if he is along with Eywa. Palmar apparently gets easily fooled by lurking players, we could be one step ahead if he shot the right guy. It's Eywa or stutters today. We should not assume they're town just cause they start going invisible.
First the quote in red: Unless I'm misunderstanding this, at best this is him taking it out of context and at worst an outright lie. The post in question is here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=388487¤tpage=8#146 where I say I notice something about the kenpachi rule but not the type of answer I wanted (which I did miss). The first time he took me out of context on D1 I thought it was because he was tunneling, this much later, I don't think so.
This quote in Red/Bold is once again taken out of context. The purpose of voting was to avoid a modkill as I explicitly stated yet he makes it seem that my reason for voting Wiggles had anything to do with my one question to him and not that he was the obvious lynch candidate.
Other than Vivax and Eywa I'm not sold on WBG but he's so fucking hard to get a read on. I'm thinking Eywa + Vivax/WBG scumteam with a strong lean towards Vivax currently (WBG just feels weird but I can't substantiate it like I can with Vivax). I'll have a more lengthy post on WBG later, but in the meantime:
##Vote: Eywa
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##unvote
##vote Wherebugsgo
I've hadd it with this shit.Also bugss flips wil reveal far more than an Eywa flip.
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Hey Palmar, convince me that Bugs is scummier than Eywa-. What you have convinced me of so far is that Bugs is being an over-reactionary angry asshole who thinks too highly of himself and not highly enough of others. Which is Bugs in a nut shell. I still think that Eywa- has a better chance of flipping scum than Bugs and I don't see how you give him a town pass on his d1 play which was followed by all this nothing. Though he is an insufferable and obnoxious ass as town (see Witchcraft) Eywa- still attempts to be a contributor, that is totally different than this game.
Bugs, why was it that you wanted to use your vote to get a read on Toad as opposed to any other player in this game.
Yam, you are right I am defending Bugs from this lynch because he is not the scummiest player in this game we have to lynch Eywa-, he can't be in lylo. He just can't.
Palmar, if Bugs is town should we lynch you for having bad reads? (bugs, you can also answer this).
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Are any of you around? I'd love someone to bounce ideas off of and to talk to about which way this lynch should go, Eywa- or Bugs.
Please respond. Thanks.
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11589 Posts
I'm here.
If you have even the slightest scum read on Bugs you shouldn't vote Eywa. If by some black magic you have a town read on Bugs you should probably go with his Stutters proposal.
Bugs best lynch. If he is this anti-town every game I suggest policy lynching him D1 no matter what. Take a serious look at his posting and tell me you think this guy is good for town.
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11589 Posts
Also if you are afraid about a lylo situation I think you should be more afraid of active players you can't read. There are plenty of lynches between now and lylo to kill the lurkers.
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On December 27 2012 14:34 yamato77 wrote:
Also if you are afraid about a lylo situation I think you should be more afraid of active players you can't read. There are plenty of lynches between now and lylo to kill the lurkers.
That isn't true. Currently we're at 7-2. If we mislynch today, we don't have a RB so we're at LYLO. Of course if we lynch bugs and hit scum today we're in a great position, but if we don't we're in LYLO with someone who gives zero shits about this game. I'll go through his filter/previous games at like 3EST tomorrow, but right now I'm not sold on him enough to justify having an AFK over someone who we'll get another day of content from, no matter how unreadable he feels.
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EBWOP wow, sorry im more drunk than I thought, my math fucking sucks.
7-2, mislynch+NK 5-2, mislynch+NK 3-2. I still feel like another day of bugs would be better than another day of eywa, but its definitely an option.
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no, active players are more readable the longer we go and Bugs can be an asset to town if he is town (an abrasive asset but an asset none the less). Eywa- has purposefully made himself unreadable which is anti town. I don't have to have a town read on Bugs to not vote him, I have scummier reads on other people. I also disagree with Bugs on his case on Stutters. Why should I limit myself to Bugs or the guy Bugs is voting for?
why, if I have Bugs in my slightly scummy column should I vote him over I guy I have in my clearly anti town and should flip scum if there is a god column?
Been doing some set-up speculating. besides JK replacing doc and miller replacing innocent child is this a standard c9++ set-up? the answer to this question is pretty valuable to us, if that is the case we have a T set up.
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EPT
