EPTNewbie Mini Mafia IX - Page 21
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
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Lorant
Hungary112 Posts
I noticed that Lazer and Nova were picking on solo for presumably being scummy, especially his first post. Since Nova didn't want to divulge what was so scummy about him and Lazer didn't have anything concrete either there was this vacuum. Along comes Pure-SC2 and attempts to make this vacuum look like an interesting point raised regarding solohan, and then he says it's odd that he didn't read the rules which imo wrongfully discredits solohan, it could even make a suspicion on solohan seem reasonable. I noted this in my journal in the following manner: (..) now even Pure-SC2 is trolling Solohan50 + Show Spoiler + On April 15 2012 18:19 Pure-SC2 wrote: Some interesting points raised regarding Solohan. I do think it's odd that he wouldn't have read the rules (it's clearly stated on the front page). I'd like to see him add more to his very short filter. @Solohan - how do you respond to Nova reading your first post to be scummy? *******End of excerpt I noticed right away that solohan has in fact read the OP and that the question he was asking + Show Spoiler + can we vote for a nolynch? I continued in my journal: (...) Not sure what to make of this, will see how he reacts. This is all very easy discussion for scum to mimic but it has it's mysterious intricacies. Will have to reread this part after someone flips; I'll also pay attention to their habit to post to check consistency (not sure about Daymor's use of his native language either) *******End of excerpt So here we are and we got to know Pure-SC2 as a posting machine, very attentive and accurate about everything everybody has ever written. Well I got to know Pure-SC2 as a derp who insisted that solohan lacked attention and failed to read the OP, when these traits actually applied to himself, first. The shift for me was great, the rupture in consistency was huge. A totally different aspect is him posting an analysis in the middle of the night. Which is like firing a signal pistol when you're behind enemy lines and want them to end your misery. And he wants others to do the same which is even worse. If you're townie and you're not too scared of taking a hit to spare the blues that's your decision. But don't get others involved. Daymor followed his example and published his whole google doc. My gut feeling basically is that I'm scared. I'm pretty scared that Pure-SC2 is playing good scum while Nova is bad scum. If so, they tried to control the thread from the very beginning and establish Nova as leader and it would've worked because Nova could've posted Pure's observation/analysis making him look capable. Pure's case on Nova was trivial and he would've switched his vote but oneplus already had 6 votes and Nova only 4. After Raven switched it would've been way to scummy for Pure to switch too. Now what's happening is that Pure is the capable one and Nova might be covering his back like a dog, grunting at everyone who even considers his strongest town read scummy. I don't know which is worse (hard to counter), this or a leader Nova with Pure's posting. So this is basically what I'm afraid of. Nothing more, nothing less. Irrational .. maybe But rationally speaking Pure might be doc fishing at this point. He purposefully put everyone in danger by posting in the middle of the night and at the same time he drew the medics attention. In conjuncture with the Pure/Nova scum constellation take a look at Nova's night testament On April 18 2012 07:58 Nova_Terra wrote: In case of my death, my top four suspicions in order are 1. Lazer 2. TheRavensName 3. BlueyD/Lorant. My best town read is Pure. I think a Lazer lynch would be the best option if i died tonight. Hmm.. do you notice anything bizarre? Isn't solohan supposed to be on that list? His super-scummy first post and everything.. remember? Oh and talking about Nova bulldogging for Pure. Check out how he's on my ass after I say Pure is scummy. He doesn't even care why he just wants to take me apart with the council stuff and whatnot. Im wondering if the entire purpose of this was to piss me off | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
How the hell did you jump to the conclusion that the reason i was on your ass about the council idea was because you thought pure was scummy? And yeah, i already noted that i forgot about solohan >.> also how am i covering pures back like a dog and grunting at anyone that dares to go against him? once again, Dont make points that describe something in an opinionated manner without at least posting filter to back that up. and linking to my being on your ass for something totally unrelated doesnt count. However i am happy that you are going after pure. very very interested in what this brings about, and currently i have a more townie read on you than before. | ||
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Lorant
Hungary112 Posts
On April 19 2012 06:55 Nova_Terra wrote: However i am happy that you are going after pure. very very interested in what this brings about, and currently i have a more townie read on you than before. No, BlueyD was interested and he urged me to back up my arguments against Pure. After I said Pure was scummy to me you didn't care at all and proceeded to 1 on 1 me about the fucking council. ##Vote: Nova_Terra | ||
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Lorant
Hungary112 Posts
##Unvote In fact, fuck it I'm going after Pure-SC2 ##Vote: Pure-SC2 | ||
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Pure-SC2
United Kingdom1440 Posts
The voting rules on the front page are very clear to me. 4. You may not vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game. 5. This game uses Plurality Lynch. Whomever has the most votes at the end of the day is lynched. In the event of a tie, the player who received the most votes first will be lynched. 6. Voting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain. There is no mention of an option to vote no lynch, so there is not much more to say here. I stated what I believed to be true and I stand by it. Regarding the night post, I wanted to get my analysis of oneplus's lynching across so that town had as much information to work with as possible. I figured I was a good target for a mafia kill so it made sense to me. And yes, I wanted people posting. I wanted to get as much info out there as possible for the towns benefit, not to purposefully put everyone in danger like you assumed in your post. | ||
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Daymor
New Zealand151 Posts
MY CASE ON MACHEJI Macheji’s Filter – Current Game Comparison to his only prior TL Mafia Game (‘Meta’ analysis) Here is the filter from Macheji’s other previous Mafia game on Team Liquid, Bastard Mafia. Now given that we are all fairly new and still learning I do not really want to put too much stock into ‘meta’ analysis based on only one past game, but from just having a quick glance at the two I can notice a distinct difference between the two. Currently in this game Macheji is not really contributing all that much information at all and lurking fairly extensively, however in Bastard Mafia in which his role was a Bodyguard, you can see his is posting more in terms of content in each post. And looking at the timestamps you can see that both games have spanned a similar length of time. Now onto the more relevant performance in this game In the early portion of the game it is very challenging to present any real read on Macheji simply because his lack of activity prevents any such analysis from occurring. Upon his return he provides a reason for his absence, don’t have a problem with that. He states he doesn’t want to post during the night for fear of being killed here; On April 17 2012 09:46 Macheji wrote: Fine, i'll post my reasons for the vote. Didn't really want to because the night is comming and the last time i accused somebody at the start of the night i got killed.(...) He contributes his preliminary thoughts anyway, this is his first post of any real substance. He lays his suspicions towards Nova_Terra, which at that point in time was probably the easiest target, I don’t think this means too much at this point in the game as his opinions seemed to support his train of thought. He then declares 72hrs prior to the next lynch; On April 17 2012 09:46 Macheji wrote: Now, that was the reasoning behind my vote. But now that i've read your case-post i am alot more sure of my vote. If i don't die tonight, i am voting for him again. Clearly he has a scum read on @Nova_Terra, but being willing to tunnel Nova_Terra before the day even breaks is a bit of a red flag to me. It’s good that he seems to be convinced of his read, but don’t just blindly tunnel someone, provide us with some more information as to why you are making this decision. A minor grievance, but I do not like this statement either; On April 18 2012 20:59 Macheji wrote: Oh man, 9 pages in and i have a full paper of notes. Most of them on Nova_Terra and Lazermonkey. I saw an obvious connection between the two of them. Share briefly with Pure-Sc2 , but tbh i find Pure-SC2 very ''town'' atm , not sure what that was about ( ganging on solohan w/o any evidence ) . I have to decide if i should make a list with everybody or just post my scum conclusion and post a case vs 1,2 people. What do you guys prefer ? If you are town, surely you don’t need to be told what to contribute to discussion, everything is all laid out in the thread. Post any thoughts and analysis that you believe will assist the town in winning the game. The statement gives me an impression of ‘I want to do enough to be ok’. Macheji’s big post about his reads On April 18 2012 22:43 Macheji wrote: I'm dizzy after the first 10 pages so i'll stop here for the moment. I may come back later today to finish and make a new post. So far. + = town - = mafia Daymor (+/--)-> In the start he favored both no-lynching / Lynching me. At the moment , lynching me gave no information. So he was ''divided'' between getting no info from a no-lynch to lynching the guy whos death would bring the less info(-). Also, from what i've seen, i've got the impresion he is a very guilable, easily to be impressed person that changes mind-stances often(+/-). Lorant ( +/--- )-> Gave a good very good town advice in the start ( the journal thing ) +. Proved to be a smurf of fourface that ''likes to do crazy things so town does not think he is mafia'' -> Creates this thing called The Coucil of Four ( crazy thing -- )to rise against Nova_Terra but dosn't really accuse him of anything, this seems a bit dubious , like a false conflict ( - ) Crossfire ( ++ )-> I know now he's dead, bear with me ( did not know the name of the guy that got killed last night when i made this so that i don't get subjective)... Made a post regarding the fact that people , especially blues will have no info if there is a no-lynch , this was a giveaway for me ( ++ ) NovaTerra (++/--------)> oh man, oh man...  .... Ok here we go. Accuses Solohan of appology post -> makes appology post moments later ( --- ). Made alot of accusations w/o arguments(-)(ex vs solohan, therapist ). Spamming, atleast 6 posts in the first 7 pages saying the same thing(-). From page 8, 18:25, when he is beeing accused he start to seem very troubled, he makes post-after-post, very twitchy. He goes crazy about him beeing the most active person. He gets even more crazy when someone mentions him beeing in the same team with Lazer.At first it seemed like an ok reaction, the guy was mad because he was wrongfully accused, but why get even more stirred up when beeing named a teammate of Lazer, that's something kinda specific to be generally mad against. Also, when Oneplus attack him he tells him he is digging his own grave, he was so sure about it, like he had some power the rest of us do not. Also when Oneplus attacks him in one post he says he is not impressed... he's not impressed of what ? When someone innocent is beeing accused of something, does it ever occure to him to say that he is not impressed with the case against him ? I am acc thinking of those real-life gangsters or white-collar criminals that laugh on the tv when they are beeing accused. ( -- ) . In another post he is accusing bandwaggoning when people started voting for him, but he had no problem with people bandwaggoning when there were like 4 voting me for beeing inactive or for 4 more to vote for oneplus when he got killed. ( - ) . He is by far the most frequent poster ( ++ ), but his posts lack any real information ( already rated this ) . Also it's clear in his mind that mafias are people that generaly don't want attention, so he may meta this and try to hide the poop in plain sight. He even says at a point that '' you do not vote for an active thought player for info'' when someone suggested his lynch in order to get information.Lazermonkey ( ---- ) > Agrees with Nova_Terra on solahan beeing scummy even tho there were 0 arguments Why ? ( - ) Calls therapist scum again w/o evidence Votes for me -> Side with N_T vs oneplus -> is accused on multiple front of mafiateam with N_T-> says he is conviced oneplus is town -> Votes N_T without revealing to much -> In the end votes oneplus ( --- ) Therapist ++ > I only see i noted that he gave me the impression that he really does not want a misslynch ( ++ ) TheRavensname ( +/- ) > a bit wierd that at page 6 he accuses Nova_Terra of beeing to lynch happy ( +/-). 1 hour later he votes me and Nova_Terra + Lazermonkey ( the ''double'' at that point) soon fallow. Pure-SC2 ( +++/-- ) At a moment he accused Solahan for beeing a scum, fallowing N_T and LM, when there were no arguments or evidence. THe only thing i noticed about Solahan until that post was that he was a bot noobish at this game. Later on he goes after oneplus because he said N_T and LM are scummy without any arguments/evidence. ( -- ) But, to be honest Pure-SC2 has made alot of valuable posts since then. I found them clear, argumented, transparent and it seemed to me like he added alot to the game ( +++ ) . Still the mark of doubt remains. In this post I find a few things that concern me when I read through, apart from the inconsistency in terms of how he is dishing out his reads, the main one I note is Therapist, who he gives a town/leaning town read to because he stated he didn’t want to mislynch. Personally I don’t think this statement is any kind of tell. Stating you don’t want to mislynch isn’t difficult and cannot be proven false either, it’s a no risk statement in my opinion. His two strongest scum reads are Lazermonkey and Nova_Terra, while not terribly surprising as both have copped their fair amount of suspicion. It almost seems like the easy way out to me, there has been a substantial amount posted in regards to why both are found to be suspicious. As such the whole post really seems like more of a summary of the current position rather than anything that is distinctly his, with the exception of a few parts in his review of Nova_Terra. Why omit BlueyD and Solohan50 from the analysis? I am not sure whether this means anything or not, I wouldn’t mind some opinions on this matter. But it certainly does seem a bit strange to me, he posts a few notes on every player except these two and oneplus who was the victim of the first lynch. Alarm Bells On April 18 2012 22:43 Macheji wrote: NovaTerra (++/--------)> (...)He goes crazy about him beeing the most active person. He gets even more crazy when someone mentions him beeing in the same team with Lazer.At first it seemed like an ok reaction, the guy was mad because he was wrongfully accused, (...) On April 18 2012 22:43 Macheji wrote: NovaTerra (++/--------)> (...) Also when Oneplus attacks him in one post he says he is not impressed... he's not impressed of what ? When someone innocent is beeing accused of something, does it ever occure to him to say that he is not impressed with the case against him ? (...) So in his case against Nova_Terra, not once but twice does he briefly mention Nova_Terra’s innocence or that fact he is being wrongfully accused. The only people who know of Nova_Terra’s innocence are Mafia & Nova_Terra. It could possibly mean nothing, but the fact that he is essentially calling his strongest scum read ‘innocent’ is quite alarming. While I appreciate that he has stepped up and provided with some of his thoughts, most are in a heavily summarised manner and I do not feel they add too much insight except maybe his post on Nova_Terra. Summary I admit, this was a fairly hard case to build due largely to not having much content with which to work.I would be happy to lynch Macheji based off this information as between not contributing and the alarm bells in regards to his case against Nova_Terra I feel comfortable enough sticking with it. Please express your thoughts on this case, I know it may be a little thin In the meantime ##Vote: Macheji | ||
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Solohan50
37 Posts
1. If you read my posts closely, I never said that I was for a No Lynch; people seem to assume I did, but I did not say I wanted a No Lynch. My first post says that lynching a lurker isn't a bad idea, but I would prefer if people talked and we lynched someone we had more info on. I was trying to avoid a situation like what happened with OnePlus. My second post was simply a quick message trying to get people to stop talking about No Lynch, or to at least find out if it was an option before we devoted all of Day 1 to it (Note the part "If it's not, then it's a moot point). I reiterate this thought in the third post, saying that all of the talk about No Lynches were clogging up the thread, and the topic would especially be clogging up the thread if No Lynches aren't allowed (which they weren't). 2. As I said in an earlier post, I can't always post while I'm at work, and I was lucky that I was able to get my vote post in while I was there. The deadline for voting is 4pm for me, which is when I get out of work, followed by an hour drive home. I'm not always able to post at work, which is why the majority of my posts happen around this time. You're welcome to think my timing is nefarious if you'd like though. 3. At this point, I haven't decided if my case for Nova is strong enough to post. A lot has happened since the vote and Nova has toned down his spam, as well as provided some defense that I still need to read though. Honestly, by the time I got through Lorant's filter for my last post and tried to figure out what sort of insanity was going on there, there was no way I could read through Nova's 7 pages of posts. On to my reads: Pure-SC2 - I'm leaning Town on Pure. His posts have all been on-topic and well thought out. He is by far the biggest asset we have, with consistent analysis and activity. Frankly, if Pure is mafia, I think we're completely fucked this game. Lorant - His play continues to baffle me, with his vote-change from Nova to Pure-SC2 being the latest thing. His posts don't seem to accomplish much besides wreak chaos and make reads that much harder. Between the council thing, this latest vote-switch, the FourFace stuff, and also bringing back all the talk of No Lynch, I'm leaning towards scum. TheRavensName - I find it very strange that he brings up a case against me that involves the No Lynch at roughly the same time Lorant does. While it could be a coincidence, I believe this might be a concerted effort to derail the thread and start talking about No Lynch some more. It would be an effective way to divert attention, as well as bog down the thread with more meaningless discussion. I'm leaning towards scum. Nova - After reading through his massive filter (Side note - 7 pages? Really?), I'm willing to rescind my scum vote for now. While he was ridiculously spammy on Day 1, he has since toned it down a bit since Day 1 and has been causing less havoc in the thread. He also incited a lot of discussion on Day 1, some of which was good and some of which was bad. At this point, unless he does something else scummy, I'm leaning towards that idea that he's a Townie with ADD; one who can't follow the most basic rule in the Newbie Mafia Guide, which says "You don't need to post every thought you have". His activity level is too high for all but the ballsiest mafia players, and I think he's done a decent job of reigning in the spam and giving decent analysis. Lazer - As others have noted, I find it strange that Lazer voted for Oneplus even though Lazer said he believe Oneplus was Townie. The way he "teamed" up with Nova, while contributing very little to the case against me, as well as the fact that he's been very lurky since the end of Day 1 is also strange. By themselves, I wouldn't be too worried about it. His actions to the end of Day 1 were weird, but not overly alarming. What I find weird is his return post, which has been his only real post since the end of Day 1. He claims that he has been acting scummy but it is due to being inexperienced, which I can buy, since this is a newbie game. After that though, his only reads are on Mecheji, Therapist, and Nova, and only one of those reads is really significant. The only real analysis post is towards Mecheji. The problem is, the analysis doesn't make much sense to me. Here's what Lazer posted: On April 19 2012 04:59 Lazermonkey wrote: Now as for my own scumreads, here we go: Macheji - started the game out as a lurker, has a couple of posts which doesn't contribute at all(which doesn't tell to much because it was just a few hours into the game). Then he doesn't say anything for a long time. Obviously this was due to his computer, as a don't really think you would lurk so hardcore that you are basically minutes from being replaced. He then puts his vote on Nova, which doesn't have an impact at all as it made the vote go from 6-3 to 6-4. His resoning behind this vote was that he didn't like the way Nova pressured with his votes in the early game, found in this post:+ Show Spoiler + On April 17 2012 09:46 Macheji wrote: Fine, i'll post my reasons for the vote. Didn't really want to because the night is comming and the last time i accused somebody at the start of the night i got killed. Here is what i wrote earlier but wanted to keep it to myself until the end of the night I'll catch up on everything and start making cases. I voted for Terra because in my opionion he seems to be trying to hard. The vote/unvote thing bothered me from the start. The matter of fact is that in the beggining it had a positive effect, but in time that kind of posts only start turning people against eachother. I noticed that at a point almost everybody was accusing eachother for various reasons and the conversation went nowhere. More than this people started forming small groups. And i find this a very unhealthy behavior town-wise. In my opinion this was all caused by Nova_Terra. I don't know if it was on purpose or not, but the effect was negative nonetheless. More than this, i saw a post in wich he said ( correct me if i'm wrong here, i went thru everything kinda fast ), that in the last game he got killed for beeing to silent as a mafia. Now his behavior is not closer to normal, but it's the exact same opposite. I think he got mafia again and he tries to act compl different expecting a tottaly different reaction from the people. From what i've noticed, he is not really scum-hunting, he is not thinking on building a case and going after someone that he really belives is mafia, but rather he goes after everybody managing to only create dubt against everybody. Now, that was the reasoning behind my vote. But now that i've read your case-post i am alot more sure of my vote. If i don't die tonight, i am voting for him again. Some strange things are found in this post such as: Now, that was the reasoning behind my vote. But now that i've read your case-post i am alot more sure of my vote. If i don't die tonight, i am voting for him again. Not sure what to think about this. "if I don't die tonight" could be a possible scumslip. And the fact that he was so willing to vote against Nova again seems strange, why would you decide who to vote for now, when it is almost 72h before next lynch? Another pearl I found in this post was this Small line: More than this, i saw a post in wich he said ( correct me if i'm wrong here, i went thru everything kinda fast ), that in the last game he got killed for beeing to silent as a mafia. Very instresting post. Nova even himself claimed that he is spamming alot as mafia, which is easily confirmed if you check his post history. I guess It's possible that he actually was going through everything very fast and missed this. But another possibility is that this post was a way of trying to spread false rumors about Nova with the possibilty of falling back by saying: "Oh, I must have missread that". I don't really think that "If I don't die tonight" is a scumslip; I think it's pretty clear he's posting in case he gets hit by the mafia. Also, on the second part, I would assume that Mecheji just misread. I would be willing to give the second claim more credence if there was more analysis, but that's all there is. All in all, it seems like a really weak case, especially for it being the only case that Lazer has posted since Day 1. I believe his attack on Mecheji might be an OMGUS reaction to being accused by Mecheji. Lazer also specifically states he is not doing it because of Mecheji's attack, but I feel that debating whether that's true or not is WIFOM. I believe that Lazer may have chosen to reply to Mecheji's post in an attempt to defend himself, while allowing him to not have to go head-to-head with Pure-SC2, who is also forming a scumread on Lazer. | ||
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Macheji
Romania103 Posts
I omitted solohan and BlueyD because my case revolved on the first 10 pages and i just didn't find anything noteworthy ( Solohan's name does come up in my statements against some people, but his posts were just vague and uninteresting , un-noteworthy in my opinion ) WTH Alarm Bell, that's the most ridiculous thing ever... I am either getting close and you're trying to stop me or your statemt is plain stupid. First paragraph is taken out of context... I was pressuming the first sentance to be wrong, so that i put an accent on the second one, to show you that there are two presuptions of innocence (lower chances ). The second parahraph again, it was an imagination exercise, like when you do a math problem and you take the absurd presuption... in case he is innocent , would he act this way. Never did i tell he is innocent... You alarm bell, the backbone to you argumentation, is a taken-out-of-context dressed in another clothes silliness. So far you have 2 points the Mafia guide states as scum reads -> Guilable vote-changing happy behavior, taking things out of context... All your arguments are silly, do you even belive in them... The fear of getting killed... yes, i was afraid to post during night because that's what i've done the last time, and i was right, and i was killed by the SK... Somebody, can't remember who asked me for the info so i've done it. Then, i asked how would you guys prefer me to do the post. So that i can make it as easy it can be to be read/understood by the rest of the people. So it can offer the best and most clear information. Yeah, and my scum reads are mostly N_T and Lazer. I still have some other people in mind but they don't come close to this 2... Does it matter other people think of them aswell... I have brought new things to the table and i dare say my case was really transparent. N_T says i don't give quotes, i tought of doing that but tbh at the ammount of posts he done that would have made my case a fucking book ( considering i make a post about 10 pages )... I will make another one for the next 10 and then i'll be on ''real-time'' 100%. And also, when i was unable to posts, i saw there were some posts accusing me of lurking. But there was no real danger for me... First time there were 4 guys voting for me, they changed , Oneplus townie died, then people starting talking again, and now you are arguing with eachother , going after solohan and what not... once in a while someone says macheji is lurking, but no big deal... I could have kept on not posting ( this time without a reason ) for quite some time until you ran out of people to flame and lynch for i don't know what bullshit reason ( like your post and oneplus's lynch). What reason would I have to come out of my what seemed a safespot into the what seems a battlefield , only to make a post that gives some info on about 6 people and brings new stuff to the lynch Nova_Terra - Lazermonkey ideea ? Now, I find your post against me wrong on every level ( except my behavior that really was different from last game, but i think i made the reason clear enough already ) . The things taken out of context jump up the most. Assuptions Assuptions and blown out of proportion quotes... You even tried to find wrong when i was trying to be altruistic and asked the other people how would they prefer i make my cases so that they can be as transparent and easy to understand as possible. Now, you are either extremly paranoid, guillable, naive person , or you are scum ( as defined by 3 points in the mafia guide ) | ||
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Macheji
Romania103 Posts
If you are town, I think you will continue to be active which is definitly something we need considering the level of lurkers we have in this game. At this point I think you have contributed enough to spare you from the Day 1 lynch. As I said I haven't had a chance to really look through the last few pages thoroughly. I still have my suspicions, but for now I might consolidate the vote on oneplus. To prevent any last minute switching. ##Unvote: Nova_Terra ##Vote: oneplus After oneplus the townie gets lynched he makes a post about The people that voted for Oneplus , naming BlueyD, Nova_Terra, Lazermonkey, Crossfire, even Theraven that switched... He does not inclued himself.+ Show Spoiler + Before I head to bed I will throw up a quick post from my notes regarding the lynch on Oneplus, bare in mind that these are my notes, hopefully they make sense to you guys as well. NOTE: This has been copied directly from Google Docs, so the formatting might be a bit ugly, I will try clean it up but it's late and I want to go to bed. ONEPLUS (Townie) - excuse for poor english - explanation of odds on random lynching - wants a town leader - argument with both @Nova & @Lazer - kind of OMGUS reaction to @Nova - thinks that maybe Lazer is bussing Nova - says Lazer changes his vote too sudden ** Initial post included an excuse for poor english, I really don’t like people posting excuses, especially in their opening posts, sets a bad precedent. But this excuse isn’t really related that much to gameplay so it is slightly more acceptable. Especially considering it appears english is not his primary language. ** Wants a town leader, not a huge fan of that idea, I would prefer everyone to work on their own and contribute to the towns goals as a group rather than relying on 1 figurehead to guide us around like sheep. ** Odds on random lynching, not terribly informative, anyone can do this basic math. ** Argues with @Lazer and @Nova who at that point I had scummy reads on, he does make some sense here and there but it can be hard to read and decipher at times. Forces a reaction out of both @Nova and @Lazer, claiming OMGUS for their pressure votes on him. But @oneplus had pressure votes on him from other players too, yet he only singled out @Nova and @Lazer. Thinks there is a connection between the two. But if you look @Lazer, you can see he has a town read on @Nova (prior to @Pure-SC2’s case), but i don’t know how invested into an argument you would get to protect a modest at best town read, but again that’s WIFOM. ** Thinks that @Lazer might be bussing @Nova, could be possible. States that @Lazer changed his vote too suddenly. PEOPLE THAT VOTED FOR ONEPLUS BlueyD ** From his posting history he seems to have a town read on @Nova, he has stated a few times that some of @Nova’s actions push him towards town, ie not worrying about his own safety and accusations and pressure on @Solohan. ** His lynch switch doesn’t raise significant eyebrows either. His vote would have been wasted had he not switched. If he is town he would try protect his town read (@Nova), if mafia almost anything can happen, although I imagine bussing your teammates at this stage would be retarded. Crossfire99 ** Uses the phrase ‘to save @Nova’ rather than to lynch @oneplus. To me that signals that he is leaning town on @Nova, or is at least on the same page as @Nova. @Pure-SC2 thinks they could be scum teammates, definitely a possibility. I basically came to the same conclusion in regards to the lynch so can’t be too critical. ** Should make a point of pressuring him for his point of view, he doesn’t really seem to put his ‘money’ anywhere, almost looks like he will take whatever comes his way. I certainly expect more from him if he is to remove any scum suspicions. Lazermonkey ** Seems to buddy up to @Nova, maybe he feels @Nova’s activity and pressure voting (which he states he likes) make him a townie read? This is confirmed in his post about switching his vote to Nova. @Pure-SC2 posted a good case on @Nova, which apparently was all the convincing @Lazer needed to switch. Although it’s a rather meek acceptance, slightly defends @Nova while still voting for him. Then finally says something along the lines of ‘if @Nova is townie gotta look @Pure-SC2’, counter-wagon maybe? ** Was convinced @oneplus was bad town (I think during their spat), yet is happy to vote for a bad town as opposed to anyone else. Kind of OMGUS. Nova_Terra ** Seems to be rushing some posts, I would think that is more a sign of townie-ness being unafraid to post your thoughts immediately without fear. I know when I was Mafia I was careful to review and preview my posts before submitting them. No reason to think other players wouldn’t do the same. ** Didn’t sway from his town read on @oneplus. Only switched his vote as an effort to save himself which makes sense. I like how he sticked with his read on @oneplus, It’s perfectly acceptable to vote for someone else you have a read on to save yourself. Noone is going to lie down and accept a lynch when they don’t need too. He is also clearly more active than @oneplus, so it isn’t a bad idea to keep him around. There should be more than enough posts to analyse his play on. ** After my early suspicions of @Nova, I think he did a decent job of defending himself, he threw in a few posts which were a bit un-necessary (rude, put-downs etc). He was reasonably aggressive on his defense, a few people came in to post messages of support so either a lot of people have town reads on him, or his scum team and a few sheep came in to save him. ** Says he has a town read on @Pure-SC2, I think for almost anyone in the thread he is the most obvious town read. Would be very shocked if he were to flip Mafia at this point, however it is still early. @Nova was probably the easiest target due to his excessive posting. I wouldn’t think someone as Mafia would give a town read on someone who posted a good case on them, but that is simply WIFOM and nothing more at this stage. Therapist ** Softly defends @Nova, saying that it’s a bandwagon that is forming. There were a reasonble number of people around at the time, if it was truely an easy bandwagon, why did more people not jump on? Several have town reads on @Nova, or at least state as much (@Crossfire & @BlueyD, @Lazer initially also, prior to @Pure-SC2’s case), his soft defense would suggest that he has either a town read on @Nova or is possibly a teammate? ** Doesn’t see a reason to bandwagon @Nova, but is willing to basically bandwagon @oneplus. Seems slightly hypocritical, but it could simply be because he has a town read on @Nova. Need more information. Although his vote did not end on oneplus I will also include my noted on TheRavensName, because he switched late TheRavensName ** Seems really indecisive, not contributing much in terms of post quantity or quality ** Early on states he has no issue with @Pure-SC2’s case, then @Pure-SC2’s post about the scumslip convinces him, then when he changes his vote to @Nova he isn’t sure about Pure-SC2 again. ** Throws his suspicions around without really providing any information why, doesn’t provide any reads either. ** Last minute of the oneplus lynch he switches off, this change of vote made absolutely no difference at all to the outcome, did it with 15mins to spare. To me that seems to indicate him trying to distance himself from the lynch target. Does he maybe know something we don’t? Possible, but certainly need more information and activity to determine whether this is the case. CONCLUSION I know this is a lot of information to digest and I am not sure how much of it people will agree or disagree with. In case I can't get online prior to the deadline tomorrow here is the link. Also included in this mess if you have a look at my notes about @Nova_Terra it states in their why I was willing to take my vote off him to an extent. I will also briefly explain again here why I changed. Nova_Terra has by far posted the most content in the thread so far, that's easy to see. At the time of the vote, I didn't have the time to thoroughly analyse roughly pages 10-14 prior to the lynch deadline. I skimmed through and noticed Nova_Terra had been incredibly active during this time so i chose to spare him so i could read through his posts to see what I thought of him. As you can see from my notes he is slowly erasing my earlier doubts about him. I am not yet willing to 'confirm him town' but he is trending that way. | ||
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Macheji
Romania103 Posts
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
Also its not hard at all to post 1 quote showing my "apology post" after i "accused solohan of an apology post". So therefore Machejis analysis is either pure lazy or trying to show things that arent correct to make a better case. | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
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BlueyD
Canada437 Posts
See Pure’s case and my own comments on Lazer, this case need not be remade. This is the scum I’m most sure of, and so... ##Vote: Lazermonkey I’ll concentrate on sniffing out the remaining 2 scum. Here’s a case for you: --- Lorant’s play is just insane, and apparently that’s his metagame… But it also contradicts itself. [about Nova and Lazer vs oneplus] (…) he lost respect and became an easy target, mainly due to your lack of responsibility, he regarded you as a leader and broke his trust and tried to rape his self-esteem. That's why I don't want you to be considered a leader anymore. No alliance, especially not exclusively against you, just a leadership conglomerate. But then… (…) Personally I think Pure-Sc2 is scummy (…) 1. About the statement. I meant to troll. There's no reason to hide my true nature now that it's clear I'm FourFace. Bolded parts for emphasis. Let’s break this down: Leadership shouldn’t be in the hands of Nova the trustbreaker. It should go to a council on which one is himself (the guy who gets us all to post analysis 2 minutes before the end but trolls town with a jokepost himself – also a breach of trust) and one is someone whom he thinks is scummy. We have here a man full of contradictions. Lorant’s case on Pure is bad, by the way: - It is usually true that games with ##No Lynch mention the option in the rules, and I don’t think Pure can be faulted for thinking that no mention in the rules = option is not there, even if that was not clear to others. He was right, by the way. - The nightposting thing I’m not sure of. We didn’t really discuss the advantages and disadvantages of keeping the night mostly silent; we just did it when Lorant suggested it (Pure included, he did hold back a lot of info), and it might have been a bad move after all. In my other games we just posted at night with no fear and there sure was more information going around. This actually might be a part of why some people lurked – didn’t want to post because there was a town agreement not to, but couldn’t be there at dawn so didn’t post much or at all. - The rest is his gut feeling again, and fear. He’s not making a case saying “this is the most likely scenario”, he’s making a case saying “this is the worst case I can think of.” This is not how people who want to catch scum think. --- Remains the third L – the Lurker. That would be either Solohan50, Macheji, Therapist or TheRavensName. Hard to tell which, though. I’ll consider Daymor’s case for tonight: For Daymor, on Macheji: Interesting case. The first 2 posts you point out do seem scummy/bad, 3rd post sounded to me more like “I don’t know how to use my time efficiently” and is mostly newbish. On the long post: I did note he had a ++ on therapist which seemed weird to me – therapist is a major lurker right now and there’s no particular reason to see him as townie. I also noted he gave a ++ to crossfire and said he didn’t know of the death at the time of writing – that’s dubious, since he sure knew about the death when he wrote “I didn’t know about the death” – so why give us an outdated read instead of a current read on why he was killed? That’s not helpful. On your “alarm bells”, I liked the first, not the second. Here’s my interpretation of that one: (...) Also when Oneplus attacks him in one post he says he is not impressed... he's not impressed of what ? When someone innocent is beeing accused of something, does it ever occure to him to say that he is not impressed with the case against him ? (...) It reads better as “imagine an innocent, would he act like this?”, with the answer likely being “no” in Macheji’s mind. Note that as the guy who dismissed a case with "LOL" last game, I don't agree with macheji's opinion here. | ||
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Macheji
Romania103 Posts
)... Did you even read my post ? BlueyD did you read my posts ? I think i made myself clear enoguh but it seems you both responded to Daymor's post but not mine .... I am comming now because i have my laptop back... I made a post less than 12 hours ago about various people, and i made a defence post now... So your point is invaild... Am I really the only one that sees the bullshit Nova_Terra is generally throwing arround ? And i don't really know, maybe is cuz i know i'm town, fact that you guys can't be sure of, but Daymor's post is complete garbage, i practicily nullified every point he made ? But as it seems nobody responded to my post, i'm not even sure anybody read it ( well, atleast L_M and BlueyD ) What do you ( Nova_Terra , BlueyD for the moment, as you are the only guys here ) think of my points on Daymor's accusation, and about how he voted for Oneplus aswell but somehow his vote went under the radar ( also his post on the people that voted for Oneplus that he dosn't include himself in ) | ||
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Macheji
Romania103 Posts
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Macheji
Romania103 Posts
Now, another thing i notice is that every time i look back i see N_T agreeing with somebody, saying they had a good ideea or repeating what they said. In the start the he's spam was about the lurker/get activity thing, after was pure chaos... 7 pages of posts but nothing really great... I mean, 7 pages ? Really.... Other people brought more to the table with 2 pages... Hell, I think even I brought more, and if i didn't i surely will before not too long. Examples : Haha. Very very true.could be a coincedence though. we'll see eventually i guess FF brings up some good points. i'll go through it tomorrow, but right now i have to ask How the hell did you jump to the conclusion that the reason i was on your ass about the council idea was because you thought pure was scummy? And yeah, i already noted that i forgot about solohan >.> also how am i covering pures back like a dog and grunting at anyone that dares to go against him? once again, Dont make points that describe something in an opinionated manner without at least posting filter to back that up. and linking to my being on your ass for something totally unrelated doesnt count. However i am happy that you are going after pure. very very interested in what this brings about, and currently i have a more townie read on you than before. Very good post by Daymor. I am in full agreement with many of the points. even if he has a laptop problem, meta changes are concerning. Good catch on his scumslips too. One of the most concerning things to me is how he seems to feel the need to try to stay safe. Its as if he is worried to post, which is a scum behavior. also asking people what to do is a very scummy behavior, makes you seem eager to please, and this is comparable to when i did that as scum. His defense is pretty bad, saying things are silly and deciding not to defend much. Also its not hard at all to post 1 quote showing my "apology post" after i "accused solohan of an apology post". So therefore Machejis analysis is either pure lazy or trying to show things that arent correct to make a better case. also i find it interesting that Macheji went from lurking to full on post as soon as he was accused. coincedence is probable, but still something of note. I want to say right now that pure pretty much said my thoughts right here. These are three out of the 4 players that i find most suspicious right now. I'll be voting immedietely after deadline so you can see where i stand. assuming i live, of course. Takes credit for saving someone Pure, note my word choice when i said i urge a medic or jailkeep to think about protecting you. This is not trying to direct them, this is making sure they know what another townie thinks would be smart so they can add that to their thoughts. ofc if they find me scummy then that will probably be ignored. However, just the thought of a likely protection on you could be enough to keep one of our most pro town players safe, and that was a major purpose of this post. and it appeas that worked. Bye crossfire ... Crossfire was a cop -_- ... IT WORKED... THANK the gods i somehow ( really ? ) saved Pure and a blue cop died -_-After my big post he says this right now in your +/- system i would give myself around ++++/-----. Pluses being most active player by far, posting filter based analysis, and maintaining town meta from previous games (sure it can be WIFOM'ed, but the truth is that is much harder to do as scum). minuses are from not having much content other than defense and defensive analysis, being cynical in responses, on the wrong side of a townie lynch. The other side was still a townie (me) lynch, but seeing as he actually flipped, yeah. ... So you agree parts of your posts are dubious... but you give yourself 4+ because you are active, and you act like you did when you were townie in other games, filter based analysis.. Well ok then, filter based + , Active -> But then you say you don't really have alot of contect ( your words ) so active, but BAD ACTIVE, then you say you keep your meta... Mentaining town meta... That can be taken either way, you either do act like this when you are town, or you just got mafia and you said this will be a good argument sometime.. so in reality this is more like meh... In conclusion you agree with most of the bad things I said about you, you say you are active and then you say you don't do much contect ( then why spam the thread ).... Why should i really belive you are town then when you contradict yourself so blatantly..P.S. I admit i made a mistake at a point ( the thing about N_T beeing inactive when mafia, scratch that point from my case, I have been proven wrong and i'm sorry about it ) | ||
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Macheji
Romania103 Posts
About crossfire. Ok maybe i wasn't clear enough... When i started the post, i knew somebody was killed, that a blue cop was killed, i knew about the murder, but i did not know the name of the victim... I just did not remember exactly, it's not that i didn't write in the first days, i also didn't read, so i wasn't familiar with the names, so i didn't memorize the name of the victim. I also didn't look while i was making the post because i wanted to go on things in chronological order... After i finished writin, just before posting i looked after the name of the killed person to see if it influences my post in any way... I had a slight satisfaction when i noticed i was right about him... Hope this clears it up for you. | ||
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Macheji
Romania103 Posts
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
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