EPTbut youtube bias is how i learned zerg, i listened to bias casters who played zerg and it helped me a ton. I wouldn't be nearly as good at this game if I didn't listen to people like HD or Artosis who only talked about zerg during the beta in their youtubes.
Caster bias and the 1-sided commentary - Page 9
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emc
United States3088 Posts
but youtube bias is how i learned zerg, i listened to bias casters who played zerg and it helped me a ton. I wouldn't be nearly as good at this game if I didn't listen to people like HD or Artosis who only talked about zerg during the beta in their youtubes. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10565 Posts
If your observing while talking about a game you most likely talk most about the areas you have a clue about what is happening or your interested in because that actually makes sense. I mean.. If a caster is "guessing" a build he naturally will check again and again and again if the build is actually happening making it the focus point of it's attention. If a caster is talking about Mutaharass/Defense he most likely will either follow the Mutas like crazy or jump around the Protoss base to show weaknesses/openings... And most likely neglecting the Zerg base... Stuff like this happens VERY often... The solution is simple: The Observer and the (color) Caster should not be the same person.. | ||
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Tektos
Australia1321 Posts
I feel that DeMusliM casting Delphi vs. DeMusliM in the EG MCSL was the perfect picture of caster neutrality and that every caster should strive to be like this. Highly entertaining and not at all biased! | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
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AngelusDeLetum
United States98 Posts
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Isaac
United States810 Posts
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Rorschach
United States623 Posts
When he commentated/co-casted Feasts PvP games he remained neutral even though he is mentoring him. Can't remember what tourney this was but it was recent. | ||
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thoradycus
Malaysia3262 Posts
On March 19 2012 23:25 Noocta wrote: I'm pretty sure you can email Husky to give him quality feedback ( like, not saying bla you're bad obviously ) and he will read it. Husky is pretty responsible for that. Some other caster are biais and it's the way it is. In the end, TB support Bling more if he plays, Bitter support Foreigner zerg player more, etc Deal with it. It put some diversity into the game. I think the main problem with it is when the caster is the observer too. In GSL, Artosis could fantasm as much as he want for Clide, but ST_Legend will do a good job not sticking to Clide base for example. good point. having seperate observers and casters help stop stop this. | ||
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ThaZenith
Canada3116 Posts
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Haydin
United States1481 Posts
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vendettahow
14 Posts
On March 20 2012 08:30 Haydin wrote: As long as the bias doesn't cause the casters to overlook important decisions and actions in the game, and the bias isn't specifically playing down one player's skill, I have no problem with it. A little bit of bias is fine, and gives some personality. After all, would people really prefer this? (sorry if it was linked before): + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gDGf1G6mxQ All this shows is Chill's ability to be a sarcastic douchebag and isn't even remotely humorous. In my opinion, all of the casters CAN and SHOULD aspire to achieve neutrality in how they describe actions, builds, etc. but can still use their expertise on said race to educate viewers. In my opinion, Artosis is a perfect example. Early in beta and release, Artosis was a zerg player, and his zerg bias came out SO STRONG. I mean, it was difficult to even watch some of the games b/c of Artosis' comments on how difficult everything was for zerg and how impossible x matchup was. Since then, Artosis switched to Protoss and (in my opinion) made a strong effort not to be so biased against any race. Instead, he worked very hard on learning every build and every opener from all three races and learning the Korean meta-game. Now, he is the most informed, knowledgeable caster in E-Sports, and it is b/c he took the criticism and made the effort to know all three races to a very high degree of detail and still make his casting humorous and enjoyable. I don't play either Protoss or Zerg, but I find Artosis' commentary much more enjoyable lately b/c I believe he made a conscious effort to be less biased and/or whiny about balance. And I don't think ANYONE can say Tastosis' commentary is boring and flavorless........ Edit: I edited to say that I still LOVE when casters show emotion and passion for the big moments of the game. For instance, as a terran player, if a zerg lands huge fungals, I am perfectly ok with the casters saying "AND OMG HUGE FUNGALS ON ALL THE BIO OF [X PLAYER]!!!!" b/c they were, in fact, huge fungals. Even as a Terran player, I can recognize the difficulty in landing big fungals or the terran player's inability to keep his bio spread. | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
and ESPORTS | ||
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awu25
United States2003 Posts
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Fyrewolf
United States1533 Posts
On March 20 2012 07:46 Empire.Beastyqt wrote: By your logic nothing should be discussed on TL unless you are pro player, manager, caster etc because you are clueless otherwise. On topic yes if you put 2 zerg casters to cast TvZ or ZvP its terrible and you shouldnt do it because that will make it unwatchable for viewers, thats why you have 2 casters and perfect combo casting PvZ is Rotti and Mr.Bitter. Overall Rotterdam is probably best non-biased caster and always says when P/Z or T do really bad mistake or talking about races in general. Even if he doesnt know super in depth terran play he will talk about builds in game from his PvT PoV and even tho he maybe doesnt understand terran PoV he's still able to explain very good and thats much better than casters saying "wow i have never seen this build before" it makes me facepalm so hard because 99% of times its standard TvX build. EDIT: this is about casters in general not the ones mentioned in OP, like someone mentioned casters REALLY need to be careful what they are talking about new players once they cast their games, if you go negative on them (especially if you are well known caster) people will take your words for granted and will always see that player as bad player which will seal his reputation from start - same thing can happen other way, hype him too much and you hurt him in the end when he doesnt live up to expectations (we all saw this before and still seeing it happen). Point 1 that Chill made is one of the most basic rules of teamliquid. If you don't have the prestige of having proven you know what you're talking about, you are supposed to bring evidence. It has nothing to do with only people in the scene discussing things on TL, but the quality of the discussion that goes about here. The OP wasn't really that good to begin with, so Chill called him out on it. You do make an excellent point on how much casters influence how a player is viewed though, certainly something important for casters to consider. | ||
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Angel_
United States1617 Posts
As for focusing on one player...Yeah sometimes that MIGHT be a bias thing, but frankly more often than not it's because it's just fucking easier. Whether that turns into tunnel visioning or forgetting or focusing too hard on one player at the wrong time and then the audience and community just getting mad after misinterpreting it because that's all half the community is capable of doing probably varies a great deal from caster to caster. Again, everyone can always get better, and hopefully they're trying to always. But this is just silly. | ||
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zergmacro34
59 Posts
it also happens in other sports too- joe rogan in ufc yelling at jon jones's opponent to "kick him in the knees!" | ||
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imMUTAble787
United States680 Posts
I'll take authentic personal perspectives from casters over blind praise of every player. Does anyone remember Joe Theisman from when ESPN did Sunday night football ? Yeah. Exactly. | ||
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HiTeK532
Canada171 Posts
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KevinIX
United States2472 Posts
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XxMulexX
Canada57 Posts
Commentator bias is without a doubt something that can detract from the viewing experience, so I don't see why having a discussion about it wouldn't be worthwhile. I feel like there's a lot of room for improvement, as I don't think there are many casters who can provide deep analysis of a match up that doesn't involve the race he/she plays, and I think that's a problem. Pro sports commentators are expected to do research on both teams playing to provide information that the average viewer doesn't have, and it seems to me like few commentators are prepared the way Day9 and Tastosis are. On an unrelated note, I also wish some casters sometimes cut on the playful banter as it can sometimes go on for too long and often isn't really interesting to anyone other than the casters themselves. | ||
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