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Caster bias and the 1-sided commentary - Page 7

Forum Index > SC2 General
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BlazeTSR
Profile Joined November 2011
United States218 Posts
March 19 2012 19:08 GMT
#121
Of course, all commentators should persue the story from both points of view to follow the game's flow and build-up. There may be moments where focusing on a specific player is going to happen because their choices are going to directly effect the outcome of the game the most. The commentators with the best game sense of this and overall knowledge of the game should be providing the kind of commentary you're looking for. You will have commentators who are more focused on their favorite or the crowds favorite due to the automatic thought of them being the main person the game should be following. If you feel that some casters do the right things better let it be known, and give examples and reasons why what they did should be changed. It's also just the need for specific casters to not partner with each other due to chemistry.

For example, the Lone Star Clash, in my opinion Axeltoss' personality doesn't flow well with MrBitter's or Rotterdam's. Not saying that they don't get along just that their commentary reflects their personality traits in a way that doesn't help the game flow smoothly in a audience's eyes. Mr. Bitter and Rotterdam's commentary between each other is a bit better though probably because they have been working together for long enough to know when each other needs to talk and where they should be looking.
Fan of ........... Protoss: Hero, iNcontroL, Nony Zerg: CatZ and Sheth Terran: Demuslim
RoboBob
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States798 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-19 19:32:47
March 19 2012 19:19 GMT
#122
I think bias actually makes the strongest casting, as long as it isn't one-sided.

All the PvZs at Lone Star Clash were great last weekend, because we had Mr.Bitter representing Zerg well and Rotterdam representing Protoss well. The playful rivalry between the two casting personalities matched the action happening on screen very nicely. I actually prefer this kind of commentary to the relatively unbiased commentary of random/nonplayers such as Day9, JP, TotalBiscuit, and Catspajamas. (Not that any of those casters are bad, I enjoy all of them, I just prefer a different casting style)

But the problem at LSC was that whenever a Terran game came up, there was nobody there to represent them. So the Terrans naturally got a disproportionate amount of hate. I can tolerate the gazillion mule cracks, but there needs to be something to balance it out on the other side.

I wish more tournaments would experiment with 3-man casting teams. That way every mirror matchup would have at least 1 specialist, and every non-mirror matchup would have 2 specialists. And then the third man out could be the dedicated observer.
Korste
Profile Joined August 2011
United States64 Posts
March 19 2012 19:44 GMT
#123
im with you on this, too many times does this happen and i unfortunetly was supporting the other player
RaiKageRyu
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada4773 Posts
March 19 2012 19:50 GMT
#124
It's annoying sometimes but it's not a problem until a commentator hates the other player or shows their bitterness when their favorite lost.
Someone call down the Thunder?
An2quamaraN
Profile Joined March 2011
Poland379 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-19 19:52:17
March 19 2012 19:51 GMT
#125
On March 19 2012 23:14 Felnarion wrote:
But to your point, if you don't like it...Just don't watch it? He can do whatever he wants, why does it matter?


Very deep and reasonable response. Since, everyone can do whatever wants, lets just be shitty and dont care about anything.
Yaki
Profile Joined April 2011
France4234 Posts
March 19 2012 19:51 GMT
#126
misleading nickname. Really thought it was the chinese player :p
MC ■ MarineKing ■ LosirA ■ To someone who has lost after trying his best, no words from the winner can console him.
Dfgj
Profile Joined May 2008
Singapore5922 Posts
March 19 2012 19:55 GMT
#127
On March 20 2012 04:07 Technique wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2012 04:06 Dfgj wrote:
On March 20 2012 04:05 Poehalcho wrote:
On March 20 2012 03:35 Dfgj wrote:
On March 20 2012 03:34 Poehalcho wrote:
obvious bias is bad. However I cannot blame husky for watching white-ra's base. Husky himself is a protoss after all, He can offer more insight on protoss mechanics than he can on on terran or zerg. Sometimes he does it because he simply doesn't have anything to say about the other player.

That sounds like a greater flaw than a reason.


yeah well, good luck asking an economist about quantum physics...
You can't expect someone to know everything, not even the pro's do. So you can't even remotely expect it from the casters, considering they're often diamond at best.

I sure as hell can expect casters to know what they're talking about, that's their job. Your analogy isn't remotely relevant.

Those that can't play... you get the point...

Big difference between 'don't have the skill to play professionally' and 'can't explain common builds'.

But otherwise, you're right - which is why ex-players (or active players not playing at that moment) tend to make the best casters once they have some practice at commentating.
Esk23
Profile Joined July 2011
United States447 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-19 20:01:36
March 19 2012 19:59 GMT
#128
Anyone watch MLG Providence? Mr. Bitter and even DJwheat(who's gotten a lot better at not doing this) were so zerg biased in this commentary it seemed they even got the crowd to be anti-terran towards the end of the tournament. That was some obnoxious commentary. You had great players like IMmvp who at the time was probably in his prime not get much attention or credit for anything during the games because the casters either played protoss or played zerg.

Rotterdam(I think he's pretty unbiased for the most part) is Protoss
Mr Bitter is Zerg
Artosis(I think he's very biased at times for certain players or even races, particularly zerg) is Protoss
Tasteless is Protoss
DJwheat is Zerg
Husky is Protoss
Apollo I believe is either Zerg/Protoss
yarkO
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada810 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-19 20:00:32
March 19 2012 20:00 GMT
#129
Caster bias leads to bad casting, such as the Grand Finals of the Lonestar Clash (player and results spoiled below)

+ Show Spoiler +


Stephano right clicks 8 Infestors to their death, many with high energy, and is heralded for his amazing, brilliant control.

He then goes on to win the tournament

LOL

When you are prepared, there's no such thing as pressure.
Esk23
Profile Joined July 2011
United States447 Posts
March 19 2012 20:05 GMT
#130
On March 20 2012 05:00 yarkO wrote:
Caster bias leads to bad casting, such as the Grand Finals of the Lonestar Clash (player and results spoiled below)

+ Show Spoiler +


Stephano right clicks 8 Infestors to their death, many with high energy, and is heralded for his amazing, brilliant control.

He then goes on to win the tournament

LOL



Seriously. But for the most part Stephano played the best zerg I've ever seen in my life, better than Nestea, DRG or any other zerg play, though that's my opinion. At the same time I think Mr. Bitter tries not to be biased but he's not good at it. I really think Stephano exposed how amazing late game zerg can be against late game Terran. It seems late game terran is lacking. Ghosts were nerfed too much, Ravens aren't as good as people think to be effective enough.
Bazzyrick
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom361 Posts
March 19 2012 20:33 GMT
#131
If I really wanted to know PURELY what build was happening, I look at production queue. When action happens its between both players, regardless of what the casters are saying I can actually see what's happening. They can't deny whats happening on screen in a fight so.. no bias when it counts.

Bias develops from passion for a player.
That passion for a player is the same passion they have for the game.
The passion for the game is what makes these guys want to cast and commentate.

I'd rather they were passionate instead of mindless drones.
You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.
Rorschach
Profile Joined May 2010
United States623 Posts
March 19 2012 20:40 GMT
#132
On March 20 2012 05:33 Tristran wrote:
If I really wanted to know PURELY what build was happening, I look at production queue. When action happens its between both players, regardless of what the casters are saying I can actually see what's happening. They can't deny whats happening on screen in a fight so.. no bias when it counts.

Bias develops from passion for a player.
That passion for a player is the same passion they have for the game.
The passion for the game is what makes these guys want to cast and commentate.

I'd rather they were passionate instead of mindless drones.



You know is possible to be both analytical and passionate while casting without letting bias/passion for player and/or race get in the way....
En Taro Adun, Executor!
YMCApylons
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Taiwan359 Posts
March 19 2012 20:41 GMT
#133
For MrBitter, it seems to be: Foreigner > Korean living in EU/US > Korean on foreign team > Korean on Korean team.

Between two foreigners, he roots for the "stronger" foreigner to win, for two koreans, he roots for the "weaker" korean to win. I guess that will give the foreigner a better chance in the later rounds.

I don't mind the bias, it's pretty funny, but I do wish they would give equal camera-time to the players.
You must construct additional pylons.
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5357 Posts
March 19 2012 20:46 GMT
#134
You can't really stop it anyways. When Boxer lost to MKP in the final game of a grueling set that he should've won in the Iron Squid tourney, Totalbiscuit said something along the lines of "I'm not even going to pretend to not be disappointed by that...I'm depressed now man. In tournaments, I'm not supposed to play favorites but I will anyways I wanted to see Boxer go through. But feelings and emotions don't factor into this. We have to be robots..."
Casters love the game and especially the players, you can't really expect them to be not show any bias.
In fact, there was another thread like this some years ago - this thread.
If you really want a completely neutral commentary...this is what you're looking at.
¯\_(シ)_/¯
CeriseCherries
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
6170 Posts
March 19 2012 20:50 GMT
#135
On March 20 2012 05:46 Whatson wrote:
You can't really stop it anyways. When Boxer lost to MKP in the final game of a grueling set that he should've won in the Iron Squid tourney, Totalbiscuit said something along the lines of "I'm not even going to pretend to not be disappointed by that...I'm depressed now man. In tournaments, I'm not supposed to play favorites but I will anyways I wanted to see Boxer go through. But feelings and emotions don't factor into this. We have to be robots..."
Casters love the game and especially the players, you can't really expect them to be not show any bias.
In fact, there was another thread like this some years ago - this thread.
If you really want a completely neutral commentary...this is what you're looking at.


oh damn i was just going to say something about moderate temperature...

biased casting is fine- i mean artosis casting Nestea? those are great casts but...
Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
Serimek
Profile Joined August 2011
France2274 Posts
March 19 2012 20:51 GMT
#136
NonY owns here.
SC2 is the best game to watch and was the best to play before I grew old and slow...
RoboBob
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States798 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-19 20:54:06
March 19 2012 20:51 GMT
#137
On March 20 2012 05:41 YMCApylons wrote:
For MrBitter, it seems to be: Foreigner > Korean living in EU/US > Korean on foreign team > Korean on Korean team.

Between two foreigners, he roots for the "stronger" foreigner to win, for two koreans, he roots for the "weaker" korean to win. I guess that will give the foreigner a better chance in the later rounds.

I don't mind the bias, it's pretty funny, but I do wish they would give equal camera-time to the players.

An easier way to say that is that Mr.Bitter roots for the underdog. Which I think is a good thing, it's one of the things I like the most about his casts. He does the same thing in Korean vs Korean and Foreigner vs Foreigner games, unless his Zerg bias trickles in. (which is good as long as there's somebody else there to counterbalance it)
snively
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States1159 Posts
March 19 2012 21:05 GMT
#138
On March 20 2012 05:46 Whatson wrote:
You can't really stop it anyways. When Boxer lost to MKP in the final game of a grueling set that he should've won in the Iron Squid tourney, Totalbiscuit said something along the lines of "I'm not even going to pretend to not be disappointed by that...I'm depressed now man. In tournaments, I'm not supposed to play favorites but I will anyways I wanted to see Boxer go through. But feelings and emotions don't factor into this. We have to be robots..."
Casters love the game and especially the players, you can't really expect them to be not show any bias.
In fact, there was another thread like this some years ago - this thread.
If you really want a completely neutral commentary...this is what you're looking at.


LOL i just watched the neutral commentary.
so funny!!!!

also really dumb >
My religion is Starcraft
bkrow
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia8532 Posts
March 19 2012 21:10 GMT
#139
Yes it's annoying, no i don't like it - so the solution is pretty clear. If you don't like it, don't watch it - there is so much content out there anyway; if it's a tournament you want to watch then hit the mute button and enjoy the games with some music in the background.
In The Rear With The Gear .. *giggle* /////////// cobra-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA!!!!
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
March 19 2012 21:35 GMT
#140
On March 20 2012 06:10 bkrow wrote:
Yes it's annoying, no i don't like it - so the solution is pretty clear. If you don't like it, don't watch it - there is so much content out there anyway; if it's a tournament you want to watch then hit the mute button and enjoy the games with some music in the background.


But this is TL, where we must find fault with every tournament and caster, not matter how minor. We must iron out every flaw they have until they are perfect. No bias when casting, no misreads on builds and no bad puns. Anything else is unacceptable.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
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