EPTp.s: I love rottie.
Caster bias and the 1-sided commentary - Page 8
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mrafaeldie12
Brazil537 Posts
p.s: I love rottie. | ||
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GrimReefer
United States442 Posts
the production tab can't tell me what's being chrono boosted or if the zerg is hitting his injects. these are things i care about and the only way to know if they're happening is to look at the other person's base. does no one else notice inject timings when observers zoom through the zerg base to show us saturation, before landing back in the terran base for the next 5 minutes? so many times i'll see larva pop with no inject in the next 5 seconds, then wooosh we're back in the terran base watching them call down mules and construct their supply depot wall. i want to see how much time occurred between the larva pop and the next inject. i want to know if warp gate is being chrono'd, or probes, or +1 weapons, or whatever. i want to see how many workers are in gas geysers. there is loads of information that is not contained in any of the tabs, that can only be gained through looking at both players bases. it's unfair and somewhat lazy to plop us all down inside the terran base for the near entirity of the early game. (i referred to mostly TvZ b/c this is always a problem in TvZ) | ||
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RoarMan
Canada745 Posts
I think it's difficult to give a balanced perspective on the game, but that's what seperates a good cast from a bad one. | ||
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mango_destroyer
Canada3914 Posts
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thurst0n
United States611 Posts
An ideal cast would focus on what both players are doing, but if one player is playing standard and one is happening to use special tactics, then why would you keep talking about the standard play? Also, casters have different backgrounds. If MrBitters background is zerg, correct me if I'm wrong, then it makes sense that he has more to say regarding zerg strategy.. I'm glad these sorts of topics get brought up, but if you can cast better then you simply SHOULD CAST. No one is perfect, no cast is perfect. I do agree that sometimes the cast can feel one sided, but I want to believe that it's typically due to that player either playing better, or less standard and the 1-sided casting is a result. I highly doubt any caster is being biased in this way on purpose, and when they are they typically are joking and comment on that fact themselves. | ||
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ninetyseven
United Kingdom16 Posts
On March 20 2012 04:07 Manimal_pro wrote: yeah when mr bitter is on the mic, every time infestors are on the field i hear SICK / HUGE fungals every two fungal growths are casted. Rather annoying ^this | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
One player is doing some smart stuff, they talk about, he does more ballerness, they talk about it, etc. Casters need to train multitasking (look at screen + minimap + production tab) Since they are biased, they look at their favourite player's base earlier. Also, they probably have more positive things to say about them. If Artosis would cast a Bitbybit game, you think he'd talk about the other guy? No, he'd bash Bitbybit all the time, giving the commentary a negative tone. I'd much rather watch a biased-but-in-a-good-way cast. | ||
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Praetorial
United States4241 Posts
However, as mentioned above, foreigner versus korean gets rather annoying, especially when all of the caster or caster are rooting for the foreigner. | ||
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EdSlyB
Portugal1621 Posts
When you talking about a professional live/pre recorded event, then the organizers have to pick casters with certain qualities that fulfill their expectations for a event that will be seen by thousands of people. Normally in this situation things are mostly maintained in professional parameters. | ||
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D_K_night
Canada615 Posts
On March 20 2012 06:43 mrafaeldie12 wrote: I think its horrible, really, when Artosis and Tasteless are casting Korean games they're always moving from one base to another, when they cast a Korean vs a Foreigner, they keep talking about how the player can win or counter the korean's build, same goes for pretty much every game with White-Ra. Take for instance Tte. White-Ra vs x6. Sleep on this the Lone Star Clash, they never went to see if Sleep was switching techs, some hatcheries went completely unnoticed several times, and they were always focusing on white-ra's base and army...the bias is showing, and it is annoying. p.s: I love rottie. Yeah I noticed it too. Anytime you have a foreigner in the mix, suddenly all the attention going to the foreigner and how everyone wants the foreigner to win. Maybe they are trying their best to sell an underdog story in the making. But at the same time it's not hard to understand why. All the casters we're concerned with are part of the same group as many of us...the foreigners...and as such they'd be rooting for their own kind to win. The default is typically for the Korean to be favored, and everyone's hoping the foreigner might win. That might be where the bias is coming from. | ||
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XiGua
Sweden3085 Posts
On March 20 2012 06:44 GrimReefer wrote: i think everyone's missing the point here, and nony hit it right on the head on page one. it's not so much about casters having favorites players, i think the op is talking about when a caster (or maybe the observer) sits in the terran base all game forsaking everything happening in the opponents base. the production tab can't tell me what's being chrono boosted or if the zerg is hitting his injects. these are things i care about and the only way to know if they're happening is to look at the other person's base. does no one else notice inject timings when observers zoom through the zerg base to show us saturation, before landing back in the terran base for the next 5 minutes? so many times i'll see larva pop with no inject in the next 5 seconds, then wooosh we're back in the terran base watching them call down mules and construct their supply depot wall. i want to see how much time occurred between the larva pop and the next inject. i want to know if warp gate is being chrono'd, or probes, or +1 weapons, or whatever. i want to see how many workers are in gas geysers. there is loads of information that is not contained in any of the tabs, that can only be gained through looking at both players bases. it's unfair and somewhat lazy to plop us all down inside the terran base for the near entirity of the early game. (i referred to mostly TvZ b/c this is always a problem in TvZ) This is exactly what I meant with the OP. Casters often only look inside one player's base and never comments about the build or even glances at the base of the opponent. The thing about praising is a whole another story and should be encouraged. Phrases like: "Beautiful fungals!" "Amazing forcefields!!" "EMP carpet bombs!" Makes everything more exciting because the tempo of the game and casting gets higher. | ||
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TORTOISE
United States515 Posts
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bkrow
Australia8532 Posts
On March 20 2012 07:06 TORTOISE wrote: I really dont find biased casters to be a problem. Often they just add more interest to the cast and get more excited than a more neutral and formal caster. The thing that annoys me about caster bias can be seen when Rotty and Mr Bitter cast together; Unnamed zerg player a-moves infestors into tank lines; Rotterdam: "Oh my god! What terrible infestor control, what is he doing!?" Mr Bitter: "It's not that big a deal - he is probably just freeing up supply" This is just an example; i like mr bitter - a lot, he seems like a really cool guy but sometimes i just feel he goes out of the way to favour the zerg player :p and i can't just mute him because Rotty is way to cute. Like i said - the solution is watch something else or press mute | ||
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Backpack
United States1776 Posts
On March 20 2012 07:19 bkrow wrote: The thing that annoys me about caster bias can be seen when Rotty and Mr Bitter cast together; Unnamed zerg player a-moves infestors into tank lines; Rotterdam: "Oh my god! What terrible infestor control, what is he doing!?" Mr Bitter: "It's not that big a deal - he is probably just freeing up supply" This is just an example; i like mr bitter - a lot, he seems like a really cool guy but sometimes i just feel he goes out of the way to favour the zerg player :p and i can't just mute him because Rotty is way to cute. Like i said - the solution is watch something else or press mute It is easy to avoid them yes, but having these sort of people casting in the first place is silly. In my opinion it should be handled similarly to the fighting game community. If you've ever watched WNF or anything on spooky's stream, they just bring in pro players who are already out of the tournament to commentate. Sure, some players aren't enthusiastic enough to make it super exciting but I'd still rather listen to them than hear PERFECT FORCEFIELDS over and over. No offense to the people who are only part of the community as casters but I don't see how we can expect them to have really good commentary. | ||
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Heweree
United Kingdom497 Posts
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theplagueman
United Kingdom32 Posts
On March 19 2012 23:10 Sea_Food wrote: I think its fine. Gives a bit personality. Not fine. Opposite of fine. It's bad. Heck I remember LSC 2 days ago the casters kept talking about Stephano and ignore polt's upgrade. The whole time they mentioned stephano's 2/2 upgrades and how polt had 0/0 when in fact polt had 3/3. They need to look at all sides to give the viewer the bigger picture of the battle. This isn't a book that you're supposed to fill in the blanks, you should be able to understand the commentary without having to look at the screen. That's the sign of a high-level caster. | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
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Champloo
Germany1850 Posts
More annoying for me is Tastosis' korean bias when they're casting foreign tournaments, so I try to avoid them as much as possible (Artosis is a good caster tho, Tasteless not so much.) I don't watch boring prerecorded stuff on youtube so I don't watch Husky, ever. | ||
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MementoMori
Canada419 Posts
On March 20 2012 07:06 TORTOISE wrote: I really dont find biased casters to be a problem. Often they just add more interest to the cast and get more excited than a more neutral and formal caster. Agreed. If anything I enjoy biased commentary more. Obviously I don't mean I'd enjoy it if the caster was openly bashing the other player in a harsh way, but I think being overly positive towards one is totally fine. My main point is that I enjoy energy and enthusiasm in commentaties I'm listening to. If the commentator is rooting for one of the players, they're naturally going to be more enthusiastic about the game. Also, I get the argument that it negatively affects the career of the player being ignored by the caster. That's probably true in some cases but I'm not really thinking about that while I'm watching. Speaking only from the enjoyment factor I get while watching the game, I actually prefer biased commentary. | ||
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Beastyqt
Serbia516 Posts
On March 20 2012 01:34 Chill wrote: Jesus Christ. Commentary can't be what you want 100% of the time, okay? Consider that there is no perfect commentary or commentator that will satisfy what everyone wants. Before opening another "Casters should do this" thread, consider: 1. Are you qualified to open this thread? What evidence or personal expertise do you bring to this thread other than you opinion? 2. Is this a big enough problem to warrant a thread? Consider, as I've said, no commentary can satisfy everyone. So knowing that, is this a large enough problem that it affects the average person. Consider that Artosis' Terran bias in TSL1 was actually what made him a famous commentator (among other things, but it was a big part of it). 3. Does your thread offer any solution? In this case, no. You are bringing awareness I guess (which you also could have done with a PM) but we're left with "just don't do it". Okay... I'm sure they're not trying to be bad at what they do purposely... 4. Is this a scene-wide problem? If you are talking about a specific event, consider that there is Twitter and the PM function to contact these commentators directly. So I answer 'no' to 1 2 3 and give you a 'maybe' to 4. So I don't think this is worthwhile discussing. I'll still leave it open. By your logic nothing should be discussed on TL unless you are pro player, manager, caster etc because you are clueless otherwise. On topic yes if you put 2 zerg casters to cast TvZ or ZvP its terrible and you shouldnt do it because that will make it unwatchable for viewers, thats why you have 2 casters and perfect combo casting PvZ is Rotti and Mr.Bitter. Overall Rotterdam is probably best non-biased caster and always says when P/Z or T do really bad mistake or talking about races in general. Even if he doesnt know super in depth terran play he will talk about builds in game from his PvT PoV and even tho he maybe doesnt understand terran PoV he's still able to explain very good and thats much better than casters saying "wow i have never seen this build before" it makes me facepalm so hard because 99% of times its standard TvX build. EDIT: this is about casters in general not the ones mentioned in OP, like someone mentioned casters REALLY need to be careful what they are talking about new players once they cast their games, if you go negative on them (especially if you are well known caster) people will take your words for granted and will always see that player as bad player which will seal his reputation from start - same thing can happen other way, hype him too much and you hurt him in the end when he doesnt live up to expectations (we all saw this before and still seeing it happen). | ||
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