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We don't only see this problem with husky,
I don't see this as a problem in the slightest. I feel as though there is a difference between casting a game and featuring a player in a game. Allow me to explain.
In news, we hope to see an unbiased approach to reporting and as we should. However, sometimes people DON"T look for that....some people want news that tilts a little more to their views. This is why we see the success of the far left and far right television programs.
More accurately, let's say we are watching a documentary. The feature of the documentary is a specific Superbowl. That documentary should be totally unbiased as the focus of the show is not on any specific player or team but the event overall - that documentary should seek to capture the show in its entirety and work to convey all angles of the action and importance of the event as a whole to the viewer.
Now let's say we are watching a documentary. This one features a specific team in a specific Superbowl. One would not expect this documentary to be "unbiased" in the truest sense of the word as the focus of the show is not necessarily the Superbowl but more pointedly the featured team - this documentary would be perfectly fine leaning toward, let's say the Greenbay Packers, if that is the team that is being followed. This documentary would be for a more targeted audience...one that cares specifically about the trials and tribulations of the Packers and what the players are going through during the event, not a more broad audience which values a more macroscopic view of the event.
This is how I feel about Husky and Whitera. If Husky is casting a live game at a tournament and Whitera is involved, I feel that Husky would do the professional thing and be as unbiased as possible. However, the reason that Husky casts so many Whitera games is that Husky's fans and Whitera's fans are specifically asking for those games. The name of the segment is Special Tactics. Of course the focus here is Whitera. I feel like complaining that Whitera gets too much attention in a segment named for him is like saying that the police are too much the focus of Cops.
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I think it's completely fine since it's become quite obvious with all of the WhiteRa videos that he puts out that it's more for the fans.
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On March 20 2012 03:11 TeeTS wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2012 03:10 peekn wrote:
I could see this being a problem in solo casts but since most tournaments are dual casted I don't run into this problem as ofter or ever. Now that this has been brought to my attention I think that I'm going to keep an eye out for this sort of thing happening, just to see if it actually does since I've never noticed it before. Well you see this kind of things by Tastosis casting, since tasteless seems to share Artosis oppinion in 99% of the cases.
Both of them are also wearing yellow socks at the moment.
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For people to be non-bias and show an amazing game casted for both sides you need an observer like GSL. They do this to avoid the bias and to provide better casting from the casters so they only focus on casting and not observing things too. This could be a problem, not sure. Such as bitter is analyzing a foreign zerg and having to observe, I know as a player talking and observing is kind of hard, or playing as some peoples multi-taking isn't as good as others. There are many things you have to take into consideration imo.
Solution: Get non-biased observer like GSL, and cast-a-way, the only thing that opposes this is the caster still over-analyzing their biased side, this imo is going to be VERY hard to get away from the scene.
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I think Husky is fine. He is full of energy and is funny. I like when co-casting with day9 or whatever ))
What I think is the most annoying with casters is when they whine about personal stuff like "My throat hurts after all this talking" "Im tired" "This has been a long day can this game please end already" blablabla, i mean its their job they should shut up, im sure their salary makes up for them being tired at work
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On March 20 2012 10:01 Fyrewolf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2012 07:46 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:On March 20 2012 01:34 Chill wrote:
Jesus Christ. Commentary can't be what you want 100% of the time, okay? Consider that there is no perfect commentary or commentator that will satisfy what everyone wants.
Before opening another "Casters should do this" thread, consider:
1. Are you qualified to open this thread? What evidence or personal expertise do you bring to this thread other than you opinion?
2. Is this a big enough problem to warrant a thread? Consider, as I've said, no commentary can satisfy everyone. So knowing that, is this a large enough problem that it affects the average person. Consider that Artosis' Terran bias in TSL1 was actually what made him a famous commentator (among other things, but it was a big part of it).
3. Does your thread offer any solution? In this case, no. You are bringing awareness I guess (which you also could have done with a PM) but we're left with "just don't do it". Okay... I'm sure they're not trying to be bad at what they do purposely...
4. Is this a scene-wide problem? If you are talking about a specific event, consider that there is Twitter and the PM function to contact these commentators directly.
So I answer 'no' to 1 2 3 and give you a 'maybe' to 4. So I don't think this is worthwhile discussing. I'll still leave it open. By your logic nothing should be discussed on TL unless you are pro player, manager, caster etc because you are clueless otherwise. On topic yes if you put 2 zerg casters to cast TvZ or ZvP its terrible and you shouldnt do it because that will make it unwatchable for viewers, thats why you have 2 casters and perfect combo casting PvZ is Rotti and Mr.Bitter. Overall Rotterdam is probably best non-biased caster and always says when P/Z or T do really bad mistake or talking about races in general. Even if he doesnt know super in depth terran play he will talk about builds in game from his PvT PoV and even tho he maybe doesnt understand terran PoV he's still able to explain very good and thats much better than casters saying "wow i have never seen this build before" it makes me facepalm so hard because 99% of times its standard TvX build. EDIT: this is about casters in general not the ones mentioned in OP, like someone mentioned casters REALLY need to be careful what they are talking about new players once they cast their games, if you go negative on them (especially if you are well known caster) people will take your words for granted and will always see that player as bad player which will seal his reputation from start - same thing can happen other way, hype him too much and you hurt him in the end when he doesnt live up to expectations (we all saw this before and still seeing it happen). Point 1 that Chill made is one of the most basic rules of teamliquid. If you don't have the prestige of having proven you know what you're talking about, you are supposed to bring evidence. It has nothing to do with only people in the scene discussing things on TL, but the quality of the discussion that goes about here. The OP wasn't really that good to begin with, so Chill called him out on it. You do make an excellent point on how much casters influence how a player is viewed though, certainly something important for casters to consider.
If that were the case, then almost everyone would be constantly breaking it.
On topic, Mr.Bitter used to bother me a lot, and so did many other casters, even Tastosis(because they do in fact focus more on protoss players in detriment to their terran counterparts, to the point where they never gave due credit to many Terrans, MMA among them).Nevertheless, it has been long since I stopped caring about it, because it's just a waste of time when I should be just trying to enjoy myself, so just let it go if you know better.
Still, it's especially bad if new players' careers suffer, one way or another, due to biased commentary, so it would be very good if casters paid attention at least to that.
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You guys are going to complain until some mad scientist creates a truly neutral caster that bores thousands to death with his objectivity.
If (and that is not always the case) the casters are actually controlling the camera and don't show everything essential that is one thing. But the times I've seen that happen are minimal. What you're complaining about is personal bias i.e. the casters not liking your favorite player as much as you do. Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
Euro 2012 Soccer championship coming up this summer. Let's see all that non biased, "professional" casting there!
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On March 20 2012 19:55 Monsen wrote:
You guys are going to complain until some mad scientist creates a truly neutral caster that bores thousands to death with his objectivity.
If (and that is not always the case) the casters are actually controlling the camera and don't show everything essential that is one thing. But the times I've seen that happen are minimal. What you're complaining about is personal bias i.e. the casters not liking your favorite player as much as you do. Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
Euro 2012 Soccer championship coming up this summer. Let's see all that non biased, "professional" casting there!
*Yawn* Absolutes are fun. Stop pretending that in order to be relatively unbiased, you must also be totally boring and monotonous. They are not the same thing no matter how much you try to make it seem that way.
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On March 20 2012 19:55 Monsen wrote:
You guys are going to complain until some mad scientist creates a truly neutral caster that bores thousands to death with his objectivity.
If (and that is not always the case) the casters are actually controlling the camera and don't show everything essential that is one thing. But the times I've seen that happen are minimal. What you're complaining about is personal bias i.e. the casters not liking your favorite player as much as you do. Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
Euro 2012 Soccer championship coming up this summer. Let's see all that non biased, "professional" casting there!
Yeah lets compare a european championship in a team sport where every country have their own casters with tournaments that feature one or two sets of english speaking casters and individual players from all over the world.
When i've watched swedish and british soccer casting from the premier league and champions league they've been very professional and kept from focusing too much on one team. And it's still really fun.
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On March 20 2012 19:55 Monsen wrote:
You guys are going to complain until some mad scientist creates a truly neutral caster that bores thousands to death with his objectivity.
If (and that is not always the case) the casters are actually controlling the camera and don't show everything essential that is one thing. But the times I've seen that happen are minimal. What you're complaining about is personal bias i.e. the casters not liking your favorite player as much as you do. Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
Euro 2012 Soccer championship coming up this summer. Let's see all that non biased, "professional" casting there!
Strawmen are fun to beat up no?
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On March 20 2012 19:47 R!! wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2012 10:01 Fyrewolf wrote:On March 20 2012 07:46 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:On March 20 2012 01:34 Chill wrote:
Jesus Christ. Commentary can't be what you want 100% of the time, okay? Consider that there is no perfect commentary or commentator that will satisfy what everyone wants.
Before opening another "Casters should do this" thread, consider:
1. Are you qualified to open this thread? What evidence or personal expertise do you bring to this thread other than you opinion?
2. Is this a big enough problem to warrant a thread? Consider, as I've said, no commentary can satisfy everyone. So knowing that, is this a large enough problem that it affects the average person. Consider that Artosis' Terran bias in TSL1 was actually what made him a famous commentator (among other things, but it was a big part of it).
3. Does your thread offer any solution? In this case, no. You are bringing awareness I guess (which you also could have done with a PM) but we're left with "just don't do it". Okay... I'm sure they're not trying to be bad at what they do purposely...
4. Is this a scene-wide problem? If you are talking about a specific event, consider that there is Twitter and the PM function to contact these commentators directly.
So I answer 'no' to 1 2 3 and give you a 'maybe' to 4. So I don't think this is worthwhile discussing. I'll still leave it open. By your logic nothing should be discussed on TL unless you are pro player, manager, caster etc because you are clueless otherwise. On topic yes if you put 2 zerg casters to cast TvZ or ZvP its terrible and you shouldnt do it because that will make it unwatchable for viewers, thats why you have 2 casters and perfect combo casting PvZ is Rotti and Mr.Bitter. Overall Rotterdam is probably best non-biased caster and always says when P/Z or T do really bad mistake or talking about races in general. Even if he doesnt know super in depth terran play he will talk about builds in game from his PvT PoV and even tho he maybe doesnt understand terran PoV he's still able to explain very good and thats much better than casters saying "wow i have never seen this build before" it makes me facepalm so hard because 99% of times its standard TvX build. EDIT: this is about casters in general not the ones mentioned in OP, like someone mentioned casters REALLY need to be careful what they are talking about new players once they cast their games, if you go negative on them (especially if you are well known caster) people will take your words for granted and will always see that player as bad player which will seal his reputation from start - same thing can happen other way, hype him too much and you hurt him in the end when he doesnt live up to expectations (we all saw this before and still seeing it happen). Point 1 that Chill made is one of the most basic rules of teamliquid. If you don't have the prestige of having proven you know what you're talking about, you are supposed to bring evidence. It has nothing to do with only people in the scene discussing things on TL, but the quality of the discussion that goes about here. The OP wasn't really that good to begin with, so Chill called him out on it. You do make an excellent point on how much casters influence how a player is viewed though, certainly something important for casters to consider. If that were the case, then almost everyone would be constantly breaking it.On topic, Mr.Bitter used to bother me a lot, and so did many other casters, even Tastosis(because they do in fact focus more on protoss players in detriment to their terran counterparts, to the point where they never gave due credit to many Terrans, MMA among them).Nevertheless, it has been long since I stopped caring about it, because it's just a waste of time when I should be just trying to enjoy myself, so just let it go if you know better. Still, it's especially bad if new players' careers suffer, one way or another, due to biased commentary, so it would be very good if casters paid attention at least to that.
I am pretty sure its only really if you are starting a thread. In which case I am pretty sure you would find that most threads that are opened, and are of a decent quality, either have evidence or are posted by someone who is proven to know what they are talking about.
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*Cough cough* Mr.Bitter not being mentioned.
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Clearly you never watched Cholera cast a Reach game or NukeTheStars cast a Stork game. Biased commentaries are some of the most fun things I've ever watched in starcraft.
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On March 20 2012 19:47 R!! wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2012 10:01 Fyrewolf wrote:On March 20 2012 07:46 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:On March 20 2012 01:34 Chill wrote:
Jesus Christ. Commentary can't be what you want 100% of the time, okay? Consider that there is no perfect commentary or commentator that will satisfy what everyone wants.
Before opening another "Casters should do this" thread, consider:
1. Are you qualified to open this thread? What evidence or personal expertise do you bring to this thread other than you opinion?
2. Is this a big enough problem to warrant a thread? Consider, as I've said, no commentary can satisfy everyone. So knowing that, is this a large enough problem that it affects the average person. Consider that Artosis' Terran bias in TSL1 was actually what made him a famous commentator (among other things, but it was a big part of it).
3. Does your thread offer any solution? In this case, no. You are bringing awareness I guess (which you also could have done with a PM) but we're left with "just don't do it". Okay... I'm sure they're not trying to be bad at what they do purposely...
4. Is this a scene-wide problem? If you are talking about a specific event, consider that there is Twitter and the PM function to contact these commentators directly.
So I answer 'no' to 1 2 3 and give you a 'maybe' to 4. So I don't think this is worthwhile discussing. I'll still leave it open. By your logic nothing should be discussed on TL unless you are pro player, manager, caster etc because you are clueless otherwise. On topic yes if you put 2 zerg casters to cast TvZ or ZvP its terrible and you shouldnt do it because that will make it unwatchable for viewers, thats why you have 2 casters and perfect combo casting PvZ is Rotti and Mr.Bitter. Overall Rotterdam is probably best non-biased caster and always says when P/Z or T do really bad mistake or talking about races in general. Even if he doesnt know super in depth terran play he will talk about builds in game from his PvT PoV and even tho he maybe doesnt understand terran PoV he's still able to explain very good and thats much better than casters saying "wow i have never seen this build before" it makes me facepalm so hard because 99% of times its standard TvX build. EDIT: this is about casters in general not the ones mentioned in OP, like someone mentioned casters REALLY need to be careful what they are talking about new players once they cast their games, if you go negative on them (especially if you are well known caster) people will take your words for granted and will always see that player as bad player which will seal his reputation from start - same thing can happen other way, hype him too much and you hurt him in the end when he doesnt live up to expectations (we all saw this before and still seeing it happen). Point 1 that Chill made is one of the most basic rules of teamliquid. If you don't have the prestige of having proven you know what you're talking about, you are supposed to bring evidence. It has nothing to do with only people in the scene discussing things on TL, but the quality of the discussion that goes about here. The OP wasn't really that good to begin with, so Chill called him out on it. You do make an excellent point on how much casters influence how a player is viewed though, certainly something important for casters to consider. If that were the case, then almost everyone would be constantly breaking it. On topic, Mr.Bitter used to bother me a lot, and so did many other casters, even Tastosis(because they do in fact focus more on protoss players in detriment to their terran counterparts, to the point where they never gave due credit to many Terrans, MMA among them).Nevertheless, it has been long since I stopped caring about it, because it's just a waste of time when I should be just trying to enjoy myself, so just let it go if you know better. Still, it's especially bad if new players' careers suffer, one way or another, due to biased commentary, so it would be very good if casters paid attention at least to that.
If you're hankering for some terran bias check out Painuser. He effusively praises everything terran players do e.g. 'Oh my God, amazing stim there!' and basically gives their opponents no credit at all. Probably you would enjoy his commentary.
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On March 21 2012 17:39 0neder wrote:
Clearly you never watched Cholera cast a Reach game or NukeTheStars cast a Stork game. Biased commentaries are some of the most fun things I've ever watched in starcraft.
My point exactly. Probably my fault that no one gets what I'm trying to say.
As long as it doesn't affect the camerawork caster bias is completely fine with me because it conveys emotions. Emotions pull you in, make you invested, make you have more fun.
Now granted, for international football you will always have a caster that shares your own bias simply due to language. We probably won't have separate Z/P/T casters for SC2 so chances are from time to time you'll just have to live with it. What baffles me is how people seem so oblivious to this.
To put it in another way, ask yourselves this:
"Has it ever diminished my viewing experience when a caster was extremely enthusiastic (biased) towards the player I like too?"
Because if not, then you're just salty that your favorite player doesn't get enough love from the caster.
Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
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You migh wanna change your quote to " it's getting too old, let's bump it"
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On November 23 2012 19:30 sHt_ wrote:
You migh wanna change your quote to " it's getting too old, let's bump it"
More like "Bump to promote my channel and advertise myself"
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Soooooooooooooo... self advertising? not very subtle when your TL user is your youtube exactly
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On November 23 2012 19:19 SoundsStarcraft wrote:I don't think u can realy hate on Husky. He's the best thing SC2 has out there promoting it because he's so entertaining even if u know little about the game. That's why he's so successful. If you want more serious commentary there's heaps out there like on GOMTV etc but if you like funny/entertaining commentary then there's Husky and this new dude Soundsstarcraft- www.yoututbe.com/soundsstarcraft - he's pretty entertaining but still covers the strat a fair bit.
Nice advertising for your youtube channel, but event the link is wrong
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EPT
