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On March 20 2012 03:07 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2012 02:52 Rorschach wrote:On March 20 2012 02:47 Plansix wrote:On March 20 2012 02:42 iYiYi wrote:
Even tastosis does this. When MMA made his debut in Code A vs Ret, they wouldn't shut up about Ret's play. Even though MMA was doing multidrop harass while expanding and pushing behind it which was unheard of at the time. They didn't praise MMA at all in those games even though he sweeped Ret. Such obvious bias. Does it really matter? Did it ruin the game for you? Is it something that we should really talk be discussing? Or as my father would say: "This? This is what we are going to fight about today? We couldn't find something better?" Nobody is fighting about it, its being discussed as it should. Clearly it bothers enough people to be brought up and makes the viewing experience less enjoyable for some of us. Sponsors are pouring money and people are investing countless hours into these events. Criticism is warranted and can be helpful to improve these events which rely on viewership..... It a phrase, to be applied to a specific argument or discusssion. Fighting, verble or otherwise is not required. And I am not saying it does not bother people. I am saying that the casters shouldn't care as long as they are not openly bashing the other race. Mr. Bitter is bias towards zerg, but does that really matter? There are other things I would rather they worry about than if they are upsetting the small group of people who are upset the casting is not 100% un-bias. I would rather they focus on other, more awesome stuff, like Picture in Picture. Or instant replay. Rather than making sure there are no threads on TL made by people who are upset about the casting.
I don't understand why you are even posting in this thread because if your really don't care and it doesn't bother you one way or another. Why do you even put in your two cents since it doesn't bother you one way or another?
Also you keep asking "does it really matter?".
Get it through you thick skull, it apparently does matter to some.
I am not going over it again as I already stated why it does matter in my previous post.
And the the things you bring up are added features which are great. Those are things that are lacking though, we are discussing things that are current and presenting a problem.
It also has nothing to do about being 100% unbiased, which is probably impossible. He is not anywhere near that percentage and swings vastly in the other direction enough that a lot of the viewers notice it.
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I don't watch that many games with casters, but I felt the guys at Lone Star Clash did a really good job recently!
However, most people in the scene have their "own" race and will identify more strongly with it. Some of them are important players as well, with high stakes on the line. Losing a game to what they feel is imbalance must be quite frustrating. So there will be biased comments. I think there has been some of that in SOTG - especially if their crew is incomplete. We need all of them to balance it out, and for maximum amounts of fun 
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It depends on who and where is the caster, for example husky as a youtube commentator/player has the right to be baised and have favorite players, day9,Tastosis,TB or Djwheat as "event casters" don't have the right to do so if they want to fulfill there jobs. I never saw Bitterdam being to "1 sided" considering there experience, not sure about bitter alone, only time i can complain about bitterdam is in tvx matches when they sometime used to focus on x more since x is the race 1 of them played but i don't see it that much anymore.
And as a side not:
If white ra is in the match, i don't care ho you are, what race you play, what nation you are, what religion you have and what hobbies you partake in, you are cheering for white ra and you want to see white ra !
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You would really enjoy ModerateTemperature's casting!
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obvious bias is bad. However I cannot blame husky for watching white-ra's base. Husky himself is a protoss after all, He can offer more insight on protoss mechanics than he can on on terran or zerg. Sometimes he does it because he simply doesn't have anything to say about the other player.
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On March 20 2012 03:31 MacroNcheesE wrote:
You would really enjoy ModerateTemperature's casting!
Haha, was expecting this to come up.
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On March 20 2012 03:34 Poehalcho wrote:
obvious bias is bad. However I cannot blame husky for watching white-ra's base. Husky himself is a protoss after all, He can offer more insight on protoss mechanics than he can on on terran or zerg. Sometimes he does it because he simply doesn't have anything to say about the other player.
That sounds like a greater flaw than a reason.
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On March 20 2012 01:34 Chill wrote:
Jesus Christ. Commentary can't be what you want 100% of the time, okay? Consider that there is no perfect commentary or commentator that will satisfy what everyone wants.
Before opening another "Casters should do this" thread, consider:
1. Are you qualified to open this thread? What evidence or personal expertise do you bring to this thread other than you opinion?
2. Is this a big enough problem to warrant a thread? Consider, as I've said, no commentary can satisfy everyone. So knowing that, is this a large enough problem that it affects the average person. Consider that Artosis' Terran bias in TSL1 was actually what made him a famous commentator (among other things, but it was a big part of it).
3. Does your thread offer any solution? In this case, no. You are bringing awareness I guess (which you also could have done with a PM) but we're left with "just don't do it". Okay... I'm sure they're not trying to be bad at what they do purposely...
4. Is this a scene-wide problem? If you are talking about a specific event, consider that there is Twitter and the PM function to contact these commentators directly.
So I answer 'no' to 1 2 3 and give you a 'maybe' to 4. So I don't think this is worthwhile discussing. I'll still leave it open.
Here's what bothers me. And it's been brought up before.
Point #1. The whole "qualified to talk about something". If we make this the rule and firm law, can we imagine what'll happen to the forums? It'd be just a few VIP members talking, and everyone else silenced because our qualifications are not proven, and cannot be proven unless we scan a copy of our BA, PhD, or Masters degree, and send it to you to "prove" ourselves to you. Or our resume.
You probably want an example from me, so I'll provide one. There is a website called elitistjerks.com which discusses min/maxing on the game World of Warcraft. The moderators there are very strict and quick to anger. They ban users even for the slightest, smallest little thing they say that isn't professor-level intelligence. As a regular user, you can't even ask a question, because well, it's automatically assumed that your question is a stupid one, unless you bring in entire spreadsheets proving or disproving the VIP member's theory.
Yet when you see the VIP members there, they can get away with saying "oh thanks" when it's "not constructive towards the thread". Let's be real with ourselves. For my part, I like seeing people talking about what they love or what they hate about casting. It gives me a good laugh because I see exactly what they're talking about, and understand where they're coming from. I daresay it's community building for us to talk about it, too.
Point #2. I believe in the people having something to say. However I'll take your side, and state that this is a repeated topic. I think maybe if we have a stickied thread so any future issues with casting can be merged or consolidated into one place. I think that would probably satisfy both forum moderators AND customers(the forum people).
Point #3 and #4. Problems and solutions. The people are bringing up what bugs them, in a central location. Versus hundreds of people tweeting or PM'ing the casters and possibly overwhelming them. Also when the casters receive all this reply overload from strangers and otherwise people they don't know, it's easy to just dismiss all these guys as trolls or immediately get defensive. Whereas when it's all in one place, the caster can come here at his leisure when he's in a more relaxed frame of mind.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
For me it depends on the situation.
For example in the group stages fo a tournament I appreciate it a lot when the commentators are for example pro White-Ra, focus more on him and even root for im in engagements. The key is to not hide the bias and make the game more entertaining that way. Obviously only as long as they don't badmouth his opponent but I don't think that ever happened.
On the other hand in a GSL semis or MLG finals or something big like that a bias would be horrible. That shit is too serious.
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I agree with D_K_Knight on most points.
And remember, it's not like we're watching the BBC or PBS here.. The gaming community is still a largely amateur and voluntary work.
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Yes, i often root for the underdog, mb cuz i know him from wc3 background or just like his style for other reasons.
Yet all i get to listen to is the fan favourite and more accomplished player just being hyped.
Also another thing, this doesn't have much to do with the casting, but often u get to see like 3 Idra series in a row, even though it's mb a 16 player bracket tournament and if you just don't like the player, it's kinda annoying.
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I don't mind. 1) i love the game in all forms and races 2) If i want to learn, i find a caster who focas' on zerg
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On March 20 2012 03:12 Rorschach wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2012 03:07 Plansix wrote:On March 20 2012 02:52 Rorschach wrote:On March 20 2012 02:47 Plansix wrote:On March 20 2012 02:42 iYiYi wrote:
Even tastosis does this. When MMA made his debut in Code A vs Ret, they wouldn't shut up about Ret's play. Even though MMA was doing multidrop harass while expanding and pushing behind it which was unheard of at the time. They didn't praise MMA at all in those games even though he sweeped Ret. Such obvious bias. Does it really matter? Did it ruin the game for you? Is it something that we should really talk be discussing? Or as my father would say: "This? This is what we are going to fight about today? We couldn't find something better?" Nobody is fighting about it, its being discussed as it should. Clearly it bothers enough people to be brought up and makes the viewing experience less enjoyable for some of us. Sponsors are pouring money and people are investing countless hours into these events. Criticism is warranted and can be helpful to improve these events which rely on viewership..... It a phrase, to be applied to a specific argument or discusssion. Fighting, verble or otherwise is not required. And I am not saying it does not bother people. I am saying that the casters shouldn't care as long as they are not openly bashing the other race. Mr. Bitter is bias towards zerg, but does that really matter? There are other things I would rather they worry about than if they are upsetting the small group of people who are upset the casting is not 100% un-bias. I would rather they focus on other, more awesome stuff, like Picture in Picture. Or instant replay. Rather than making sure there are no threads on TL made by people who are upset about the casting. I don't understand why you are even posting in this thread because if your really don't care and it doesn't bother you one way or another. Why do you even put in your two cents since it doesn't bother you one way or another? Also you keep asking "does it really matter?". Get it through you thick skull, it apparently does matter to some. I am not going over it again as I already stated why it does matter in my previous post. And the the things you bring up are added features which are great. Those are things that are lacking though, we are discussing things that are current and presenting a problem. It also has nothing to do about being 100% unbiased, which is probably impossible. He is not anywhere near that percentage and swings vastly in the other direction enough that a lot of the viewers notice it.
I've noticed his name popping up a lot recently, I think he just argues to be argumentative, and he like to just shoot down other people posts and chalk it up to superiority. Discussion on caster bias is more than warranted, and should bother some people.
Back to topic, I agree with the OP so some extent, it is noticeable with MrBitter, where he will focus quite a bit more on a Zerg player rather than his opponent. I think it'd be nice if casters at least made a point to describe in detail the openers each player used. Because sometimes they get so engrossed in one player, that you are completely in the dark as to what another player is doing.
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I dont care about bias, if the commentary is good its fine.
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Honestly I think Bitter improved a lot on his Zerg bias since he started, maybe thanks to the shows he did with RotterdaM where he played a bit of the other races. When he was casting for the NASL, it was all "Zerg is now in an unwinnable position" if he lost like 3 drones.
Lately it didn't bother me. There is still a slight "foreigner" bias in BitterdaM, but it's fine imo, they're probably my favorite casting pair, tied with Tastosis.
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On March 20 2012 03:35 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2012 03:34 Poehalcho wrote:
obvious bias is bad. However I cannot blame husky for watching white-ra's base. Husky himself is a protoss after all, He can offer more insight on protoss mechanics than he can on on terran or zerg. Sometimes he does it because he simply doesn't have anything to say about the other player. That sounds like a greater flaw than a reason.
yeah well, good luck asking an economist about quantum physics...
You can't expect someone to know everything, not even the pro's do. So you can't even remotely expect it from the casters, considering they're often diamond at best.
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It happens. Watch a UFC fight that Joe Rogan casts with say a fighter like Jon Jones or Shogun Rua. Bias will always be there, people find players they like more then others, it's a basic concept of E-Sports.
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On March 20 2012 04:05 Poehalcho wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2012 03:35 Dfgj wrote:On March 20 2012 03:34 Poehalcho wrote:
obvious bias is bad. However I cannot blame husky for watching white-ra's base. Husky himself is a protoss after all, He can offer more insight on protoss mechanics than he can on on terran or zerg. Sometimes he does it because he simply doesn't have anything to say about the other player. That sounds like a greater flaw than a reason. yeah well, good luck asking an economist about quantum physics... You can't expect someone to know everything, not even the pro's do. So you can't even remotely expect it from the casters, considering they're often diamond at best.
I sure as hell can expect casters to know what they're talking about, that's their job. Your analogy isn't remotely relevant.
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yeah when mr bitter is on the mic, every time infestors are on the field i hear
SICK / HUGE fungals every two fungal growths are casted. Rather annoying
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On March 20 2012 04:06 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2012 04:05 Poehalcho wrote:On March 20 2012 03:35 Dfgj wrote:On March 20 2012 03:34 Poehalcho wrote:
obvious bias is bad. However I cannot blame husky for watching white-ra's base. Husky himself is a protoss after all, He can offer more insight on protoss mechanics than he can on on terran or zerg. Sometimes he does it because he simply doesn't have anything to say about the other player. That sounds like a greater flaw than a reason. yeah well, good luck asking an economist about quantum physics... You can't expect someone to know everything, not even the pro's do. So you can't even remotely expect it from the casters, considering they're often diamond at best. I sure as hell can expect casters to know what they're talking about, that's their job. Your analogy isn't remotely relevant.
Those that can't play... you get the point...
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EPT
