EPTCaster bias and the 1-sided commentary - Page 4
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kochanfe
Micronesia1338 Posts
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Riquiz
Netherlands402 Posts
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Aunvilgod
2653 Posts
Also, a caster should not pay too much attention to obviouis things. If there are special tactics going on I don´t care about a standard hellion opening. If a zerg techs to hive there is not as much to say as about weather a terran is going mech or bio (or biomech as of late, whatever that is). Lastly there are analytical and there are casual casters. Husky is of course a very casual caster, he rather just commentates on whats going on than predicting what is going to happen. His good friend Day9 on the other hand is doing the exact opposite. You know him. I would love to see more straight casts on Day9s channel btw. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On March 19 2012 23:28 Liquid`NonY wrote: This is different. Two ways to be biased: (1)praise and congratulate one player more than the other and (2)report what one player is doing more than the other. (1) is pretty common and has already been discussed quite a bit. I think (2) is what we're talking about here and it's a bigger problem because it prevents the viewers from following the game well. It's like having vision on only one player. These games need to be in the 3rd person perspective. When viewing and talking about only one player's perspective at length, the 3rd person perspective is dropped. I could not agree more with you. During the second set of SeleCT vs HeavenS I had no idea what SeleCT was doing based on the commentary. They were so busy in HeavenS base the entire game that they missed 2 drops / attempts... When I watch Day[9] cast a game I feel like both players are the best in the world, he does such a good job praising both players equally. Something that bothers me more than player bias is casters afraid of being wrong. Lone Star Clash was the best example I can think of, all of the casters were so afraid of saying "here's what's gonna happen". Instead, they suggested that things might happen while being afraid of reading the build wrong and looking less knowledgeable. | ||
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Badfatpanda
United States9719 Posts
I think that casters follow the same light as music artists, people have strong likes and dislikes but for me I'll give anything a shot before I jump to a conclusion. A lot of people flamed Axeltoss in the beginning of the LoneStar clash but then praised him by the end of Sunday. On the other hand there are pro casters like DeMu and Machine who were so overtly biased in their broadcasts that it came across satirical and light-hearted, which was very pleasant to listen to. I think it's something people can aim to correct in their casting but I don't think it should be the highlight of what makes a caster "good" or "bad", and honestly, if Husky has as many subscribers as he does he's doing something right, regardless of your opinion ^^ | ||
Chill
Calgary25995 Posts
Before opening another "Casters should do this" thread, consider: 1. Are you qualified to open this thread? What evidence or personal expertise do you bring to this thread other than you opinion? 2. Is this a big enough problem to warrant a thread? Consider, as I've said, no commentary can satisfy everyone. So knowing that, is this a large enough problem that it affects the average person. Consider that Artosis' Terran bias in TSL1 was actually what made him a famous commentator (among other things, but it was a big part of it). 3. Does your thread offer any solution? In this case, no. You are bringing awareness I guess (which you also could have done with a PM) but we're left with "just don't do it". Okay... I'm sure they're not trying to be bad at what they do purposely... 4. Is this a scene-wide problem? If you are talking about a specific event, consider that there is Twitter and the PM function to contact these commentators directly. So I answer 'no' to 1 2 3 and give you a 'maybe' to 4. So I don't think this is worthwhile discussing. I'll still leave it open. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
Is it even possible to completely remove this kind of commentary from the scene!? not entirely, with enough experience and if the casters aware hes doing it it can be limited some but casters will always pay more attention to one side then the other | ||
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MaV_gGSC
Canada1345 Posts
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cari-kira
Germany655 Posts
you know some players more than others and have therefore details to tell about, that are iteresting for their fans, but not so interesting for the fans of the other player. you know a race better. you like a player more. etc etc. i have no problems with that, i watch the game, and when a commentator does not share my view, i am old enough to understand that. we are human. dont forget that. i'd rather see biased casts, because they are of course more emotional than pale mechanical casts, even when some of them do not accord with my emotions. think of a soccer world cup vs national league. in the world cup you watch a game of your team, the caster is biased of course, and its very emotional. ever watched an international game in the foreign country of the opponent? i some years ago watched germany vs netherlands in a bar in the netherlands, germany won like 2:0 and we were the only one celebrating every goal. the commentator was of course dutch and biased, the other people were pissed, but we had our fun. what i try to say is: its not the caster, that makes the game fun, its you! so stop whining, bashing and complaining, its not the casters' fault when your player loses. | ||
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forSeohyun
504 Posts
1. What casters do on their own Youtube channels, eg Husky, HD, TB Day9 dailies etc. 2. What official casters hired by tournaments to cast a game do, eg GSL, Day9/Husky/HD/TB when casting a tournament. In my opinion we should only talk about case 2 in this topic, since in case 1 the only obligation the casters have are unto themselves, in case 2 they have an obligation to the organization who hired them. The Husky example in OP was, if I am not mistaken, case 1 and therefore a bad example. I wonder why he was singled out? | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
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claash
Poland472 Posts
i dont like that.. | ||
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bro_fenix
United States132 Posts
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XiGua
Sweden3085 Posts
On March 20 2012 01:51 StatorFlux wrote: The issue, it seems to me, the uis best divided into two cases: 1. What casters do on their own Youtube channels, eg Husky, HD, TB Day9 dailies etc. 2. What official casters hired by tournaments to cast a game do, eg GSL, Day9/Husky/HD/TB when casting a tournament. In my opinion we should only talk about case 2 in this topic, since in case 1 the only obligation the casters have are unto themselves, in case 2 they have an obligation to the organization who hired them. The Husky example in OP was, if I am not mistaken, case 1 and therefore a bad example. I wonder why he was singled out? Because it was a pretty clear example. I only chose Husky because he is the most famous caster in the Starcraft 2 scene. (Personal opinion) I don't think I singled out him as I wrote that other commentators also show this kind of behaviour. But I do understand that case 1 is completely useless to be discussed. On March 20 2012 01:54 Talin wrote: Clearly you are not familiar with Moderate Temperature casting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gDGf1G6mxQ OMG, he didn't even commentate about the Terran's minerals being mined during the first 3-4 minutes. Unwatchable. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 20 2012 01:34 Chill wrote: Jesus Christ. Commentary can't be what you want 100% of the time, okay? Consider that there is no perfect commentary or commentator that will satisfy what everyone wants. Before opening another "Casters should do this" thread, consider: 1. Are you qualified to open this thread? What evidence or personal expertise do you bring to this thread other than you opinion? 2. Is this a big enough problem to warrant a thread? Consider, as I've said, no commentary can satisfy everyone. So knowing that, is this a large enough problem that it affects the average person. Consider that Artosis' Terran bias in TSL1 was actually what made him a famous commentator (among other things, but it was a big part of it). 3. Does your thread offer any solution? In this case, no. You are bringing awareness I guess (which you also could have done with a PM) but we're left with "just don't do it". Okay... I'm sure they're not trying to be bad at what they do purposely... 4. Is this a scene-wide problem? If you are talking about a specific event, consider that there is Twitter and the PM function to contact these commentators directly. So I answer 'no' to 1 2 3 and give you a 'maybe' to 4. So I don't think this is worthwhile discussing. I'll still leave it open. Pretty much agree this is non-issue. Currently Artosis's love of all things mech makes is casting more amusing and enjoyable. As long as the caster is honest about their bias and makes the audience aware, bias is not an issue. The real question is: are you, as a viewer, going to get bent out of shape because a caster is rooting for one player over another? If that ruins your enjoyment of watching a game, there is nothing anyone can really do. The casters are human and are paid to provide some entertainment during the match. I am from the Boston area, and if you have ever listened to a radio broadcast of a Red Sox game, bias is the kindest word you could use for commentatory during those games. If you are a Yankees fan, you find a way to listen to the New York broadcast. You don't exactly have that option is SC2, but you can just turn down the volume. | ||
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Fyrewolf
United States1533 Posts
On March 20 2012 01:34 Chill wrote: Jesus Christ. Commentary can't be what you want 100% of the time, okay? Consider that there is no perfect commentary or commentator that will satisfy what everyone wants. Before opening another "Casters should do this" thread, consider: 1. Are you qualified to open this thread? What evidence or personal expertise do you bring to this thread other than you opinion? 2. Is this a big enough problem to warrant a thread? Consider, as I've said, no commentary can satisfy everyone. So knowing that, is this a large enough problem that it affects the average person. Consider that Artosis' Terran bias in TSL1 was actually what made him a famous commentator (among other things, but it was a big part of it). 3. Does your thread offer any solution? In this case, no. You are bringing awareness I guess (which you also could have done with a PM) but we're left with "just don't do it". Okay... I'm sure they're not trying to be bad at what they do purposely... 4. Is this a scene-wide problem? If you are talking about a specific event, consider that there is Twitter and the PM function to contact these commentators directly. So I answer 'no' to 1 2 3 and give you a 'maybe' to 4. So I don't think this is worthwhile discussing. I'll still leave it open. Hell Yeah. Tell it like it is, Chill! Casting and commentary is an incredibly subjective thing, and some people just can't stand that it's not specifically tailored to only them, even though tens of thousands others may watch it. You really should have dropped the hammer down and dispensed indiscriminate justice by closing it though. | ||
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
And is not normal, is not "cose a is a human", is not proof of personality. A lot of top casters are NOT biased. I remember for example TLO praising certain P players plays, and he plays Z and T. Not to mention Artosis or Day9, totally unbiased. An Husky is more a funny guy, so is logical that he bias toward most loved players like W-Ra | ||
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singul4rity
United States54 Posts
On March 20 2012 01:34 Chill wrote: Jesus Christ. Commentary can't be what you want 100% of the time, okay? Consider that there is no perfect commentary or commentator that will satisfy what everyone wants. Before opening another "Casters should do this" thread, consider: 1. Are you qualified to open this thread? What evidence or personal expertise do you bring to this thread other than you opinion? 2. Is this a big enough problem to warrant a thread? Consider, as I've said, no commentary can satisfy everyone. So knowing that, is this a large enough problem that it affects the average person. Consider that Artosis' Terran bias in TSL1 was actually what made him a famous commentator (among other things, but it was a big part of it). 3. Does your thread offer any solution? In this case, no. You are bringing awareness I guess (which you also could have done with a PM) but we're left with "just don't do it". Okay... I'm sure they're not trying to be bad at what they do purposely... 4. Is this a scene-wide problem? If you are talking about a specific event, consider that there is Twitter and the PM function to contact these commentators directly. So I answer 'no' to 1 2 3 and give you a 'maybe' to 4. So I don't think this is worthwhile discussing. I'll still leave it open. Did you read Nony and TB's responses to this thread..? I said having a dedicated observer is a way to get around this. Some casters just aren't physically capable of avoiding focusing on one base, you can tell they get distracted as they're taling (someone like DJ Wheat... sorry bro). Some casters just choose to be fanboys of a certain race/player. Obviously some people like this and others don't. When people bring up Artosis loving Nestea, or mech, what they ignore is that it doesn't impact the quality of the cast because they are still giving a good amount of time to what the other player is doing. Some casters actually spend less camera and talking time on a player because they love the other player or other players race. This is the problem, not simply having a bias. | ||
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ref4
2933 Posts
Wolf is painfully obviously favoring Protoss in his casts. Khadlor is doing a good job not favoring Zerg in his casts. MoleTrap....nobody really cares. Mr. Bitter obviously favoring (foreign) Zergs in his casts. day[9] is pretty neutral. | ||
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Crushinator
Netherlands2138 Posts
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