EPTStorm Mafia - Page 130
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Neenerneenerneener | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 13 2012 07:37 wherebugsgo wrote: Hahahahahahahahahaha GJ on the win VE. I wish I had a bit more time to think during this game. I will probably be policy bussing RoL if he's ever on a scumteam with me again lololol Also I noticed on the night syllo gave me the pot, if I drank it we could've RBed someone other than VE. I knew it was a healing pot but I forgot to send my action in (my team also told me not to take the risk) If we got town to kill VE instead of prpl we would've had a much better chance at winning after day 3. Last thing I want to mention is that I think this setup had too many blues. It essentially had two town investigative roles: tracker, and hider. Some of the roles didn't seem roleblockable (for example, is alchemist roleblockable?) The existence of the town RB meant that town could stop KP in three different ways: hider drawing hits, alchemist giving potions, and RBer targeting poisoner/killer. Honestly if I were the RB I would've targeted RoL every night and it would have resulted in Jackal surviving. 9 blues and 4 greens...when have you seen a setup where the number of blues outnumbers both vanilla town and scum combined? Hell, blues made up half the playerbase. Yet, you guys still lost...lol. Counting the number of blues is decieving. Plenty of hosts have used the formula #blue=mafia count * 2 The foresnic expert's only purpose was to verify the existance of a third party player. Floridian is pretty weak. The vig's were nerfed and the hider is about as low as you can go on the tier list of investigative roles. Add in the fact that mafia had 4 power roles and it's not all that bad. I'm not sure why you guys got a bonebreaker, rather than roleblocker though. Unless I'm missing its use? I do agree that the roleblocker being able to stop scum kp is too powerful. Scum qt link? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Saying something like "I don't care that there's third party when they're helping town" is funny in retrospect, but really really dumb. As town your goal is to kill all nontown, indiscriminately. As the setup is closed you have no idea what you're up against, so you just kill whoeever fits a scum agenda. VE wasn'f playing to his town meta (look at the countercase I built on him d3; 100% of that case, I would repeat as a townie) Layabout and I tried swinging the town lynch onto VE multiple times. Ultimately I think we could have approached that differently and potentially gotten him killed for our gain if we opposed the prpl lynch, or bussed RoL. However in terms of self preservation and not knowing 100% at the time it was difficult to make that assessment. Also something that's funny is that it's really really easy to find third parties as scum. In every scum game I've played that had third party in it, I've caught onto them, with my strongest case often being on them. Ex. MLP tnkted was third party, in L Palmar was traitor, in AC Palmar/Kurumi were third party, and this game with VE. I guess I should push those reads more strongly in thread and back off the obv town mislynches :p | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
the qt is here http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/tpY6QRhpnhp it's pretty empty because we used skype for nearly the whole game. | ||
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On March 13 2012 07:48 wherebugsgo wrote: Also Toad it doesn't matter that you caught any of us when you singlehandedly were one of the worst players for town. Saying something like "I don't care that there's third party when they're helping town" is funny in retrospect, but really really dumb. As town your goal is to kill all nontown, indiscriminately. As the setup is closed you have no idea what you're up against, so you just kill whoeever fits a scum agenda. VE wasn'f playing to his town meta (look at the countercase I built on him d3; 100% of that case, I would repeat as a townie) Layabout and I tried swinging the town lynch onto VE multiple times. Ultimately I think we could have approached that differently and potentially gotten him killed for our gain if we opposed the prpl lynch, or bussed RoL. However in terms of self preservation and not knowing 100% at the time it was difficult to make that assessment. Also something that's funny is that it's really really easy to find third parties as scum. In every scum game I've played that had third party in it, I've caught onto them, with my strongest case often being on them. Ex. MLP tnkted was third party, in L Palmar was traitor, in AC Palmar/Kurumi were third party, and this game with VE. I guess I should push those reads more strongly in thread and back off the obv town mislynches :p yeah but we were at lylo. How can people even suggest talking about 3rd parties when we desperatly need to kill mafia first. That's the point. I did not care about 3rd parties as long as there were confirmed mafias around and the 3rd party thing was a guess which, if wrong, would have caused us to insta-lose the game. Even if it was right lynching the 3rd party instead of a mafia could have lost us the game at some point. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On March 13 2012 07:46 kitaman27 wrote: Counting the number of blues is decieving. Plenty of hosts have used the formula #blue=mafia count * 2 The foresnic expert's only purpose was to verify the existance of a third party player. Floridian is pretty weak. The vig's were nerfed and the hider is about as low as you can go on the tier list of investigative roles. Add in the fact that mafia had 4 power roles and it's not all that bad. I'm not sure why you guys got a bonebreaker, rather than roleblocker though. Unless I'm missing its use? I do agree that the roleblocker being able to stop scum kp is too powerful. Scum qt link? Forensic expert could determine whether a vig killed someone (e.g. syllo) In a setup of this size normally you have 5-6 blues. You have some sort of town one shot or two shot KP, one or two investigative roles, one or two protective roles, and then one or two "weaker" roles (or at least less prominent in terms of actions, like a mason pair or double voter) In this game you had an infinite vet/town confirmer in the hider. If you want to be a vet forever just hide behind someone who will never get shot, and the only way you can die is if you're roleblocked. Otherwise you can slowly start confirming people. You had a hybrid KP/protective role in the alchemist. No idea if he had a limit on uses, and he's not as powerful as you might think, but still useful. Floridian whose extra vote doesn't appear; that's incredibly strong (stronger than you'd think in cases of split votes. D1 it could have been instrumental) Town RB who could: stop my protection (allowing town vig or SK to kill my target) stop poisoner, stop killer, stop SK, stop RB. 5 good targets out of 17 or less every night is real good odds. Vig who activated when town lost a player to lynch; essentially a failsafe vig who would be perpetually tunneled on voting lists. In a way, weaker than a normal vig, but still strong. If we hadn't janitored redFF n1 we'd probablyhave seen Toad shoot into us because all four of us were on redFF. Tracker. Having played as one myself I think it's easy to say that this is a really powerful role. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
It's not helping town at all because people will end up thinking I'm retarded or mafia but it's at least helping me out figuring this out. At least that's the reason I was dead certain on WBG, RoL and BC to be mafia, actually should have realized Laya was mafia as well but I was to blinded by my meta-read on VE thinking I got mafia with those 4. Idk, it's probably really bad to do such a thing, because town has no possibility to judge if I'm mafia doing that on purpose or town doing that on purpose and therefore it's getting really hard for town to correctly judge me but it's really nice from your own reads :p And well, imo the thread was semi-dead after a bunch of days and pretty much noone was putting effort in this game so I didn't care about bullshitting at that point in time and just went with it to get at least some nice reads myself. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On March 13 2012 07:52 VisceraEyes wrote: Palmar was traitor in Responsibility, not L. FOOL! Right, my bad. On March 13 2012 07:59 Toadesstern wrote: yeah but we were at lylo. How can people even suggest talking about 3rd parties when we desperatly need to kill mafia first. That's the point. I did not care about 3rd parties as long as there were confirmed mafias around and the 3rd party thing was a guess which, if wrong, would have caused us to insta-lose the game. Even if it was right lynching the 3rd party instead of a mafia could have lost us the game at some point. Except it should've been obvious there was an SK when two people died (IIRC?) Also, generally the only way most SKs can die is through lynch. Which means, at that stage in the game, you have to lynch the SK because otherwise you can't kill him. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On March 13 2012 08:05 Toadesstern wrote: oh and yeah about the bullshitting this game. I tend to do that when the thread goes semi-dead and it forces people to talk. It's not helping town at all because people will end up thinking I'm retarded or mafia but it's at least helping me out figuring this out. At least that's the reason I was dead certain on WBG, RoL and BC to be mafia, actually should have realized Laya was mafia as well but I was to blinded by my meta-read on VE thinking I got mafia with those 4. Idk, it's probably really bad to do such a thing, because town has no possibility to judge if I'm mafia doing that on purpose or town doing that on purpose and therefore it's getting really hard for town to correctly judge me but it's really nice from your own reads :p And well, imo the thread was semi-dead after a bunch of days and pretty much noone was putting effort in this game so I didn't care about bullshitting at that point in time and just went with it to get at least some nice reads myself. I was putting in effort you little shit.  | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On March 13 2012 08:06 wherebugsgo wrote: Right, my bad. Except it should've been obvious there was an SK when two people died (IIRC?) Also, generally the only way most SKs can die is through lynch. Which means, at that stage in the game, you have to lynch the SK because otherwise you can't kill him. You can't lynch the sk if it gives the scum team control over the lynch. o.O | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On March 13 2012 08:07 kitaman27 wrote: You can't lynch the sk if it gives the scum team control over the lynch. o.O This. Once town reached LYLO I knew the game was pretty much mine barring night-action shenanigans. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I forgot about that hahaha | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On March 13 2012 08:07 kitaman27 wrote: You can't lynch the sk if it gives the scum team control over the lynch. o.O what Kita said. Just imagine lynching VE instead of BC. Would have left us with Kita and Cwave alive vs BC going into night with 1 KP. That's an insta-lose. It was like that ever since the suicidebomber. There was no way to lynch the SK without outright losing the game. Lynching mafia first was the necessary move and although an SK was on the move we could not afford town to think about stuff like that at that point in time. | ||
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