|
You can get away with a stat <8 now since statdeath isn't instant. The only thing that should hit you for that much in one go is a very unlucky miscast effect (I think), which means Orange Crystal Statues and Hell effects only as far as I know. Of course there is other stuff that can gradually drain your Int down also. Carry around a Royal Jelly or two and wear Sustain Abilities in Hells if you can and it's not that big a deal.
Int affecting spell hunger is mostly a nonissue unless you're doing stuff like Tornado'ing rats. You want to raise Int for the spell success/power boost anyway, and in most reasonable cases all but the really high level spells will end up taking nearly as much food in time spent regenerating MP as food lost to casting the spell immediately (exceptions for Spriggans and the like who hunger slower). You'll end up reducing spell hunger by raising Int which is nice, but I've never come close to running out of food from casting spells.
Swiftness does absolutely nothing for a Spriggan who is moving at normal Spriggan speed, so you shouldn't really cast it at all and can probably forget it to clear up some spell levels. On other races you should ideally have it active all the time, but reasonably just need to cast it for dangerous situations (lets you escape from stuff like Ogres or Hydras if they close the gap or run for your life in Abyss, especially with Flight also). Regeneration is useful in basically any situation where you might lose more HP, since regenerating HP more quickly is never a bad thing and the extra food cost is negligible (and stops if you're at full HP).
When I won my SpEn I used Invisibility on basically everything that couldn't see invisible because it's really powerful ... just be careful about stabbing something that can one-hit-kill you from range since if said monster does wake up as you approach you might well be dead (on the other hand I stabbed an Orb of Fire to death on that game, which was immensely satisfying). You'll still wake up big groups from time to time since one monster will see you and then shout to wake everyone else up though.
Just be careful to wait off the contamination from one Invisibility casting to re-cast it if you can ... otherwise you might end up glowing, which both kills your invisibility and probably mutates you to boot.
|
United States10328 Posts
On December 05 2011 23:20 crate wrote:
Swiftness does absolutely nothing for a Spriggan who is moving at normal Spriggan speed, so you shouldn't really cast it at all and can probably forget it to clear up some spell levels. On other races you should ideally have it active all the time, but reasonably just need to cast it for dangerous situations (lets you escape from stuff like Ogres or Hydras if they close the gap or run for your life in Abyss, especially with Flight also). Regeneration is useful in basically any situation where you might lose more HP, since regenerating HP more quickly is never a bad thing and the extra food cost is negligible (and stops if you're at full HP).
LOL oops! I probably should've noticed that... and yeah, I tried to stab Roxanne to death at level 21 or so with my last SpEn while invisible. It took like 4 different hits from her, but YASD :D
EDIT: Oops, died on snake:5. meh, fighting a lot of enemies is hard when I can't mephitic cloud them  and my large abominations weren't really good enough to take on greater naga, lol.
|
BLEH!
I keep dying in the fucking orc mines, or caves, or whatever the hell it is.
I get down to the part with a MILLION FUCKING OGRES and always get raped.
So annoyed. I was have'n a great run with a Priest of Beogh. Went into Orcs and giggled with glee as my posse ballooned from 3 dedicated followers to like 30, and then cried hysterically as they all got slaughtered while I ran for my life, only to die helplessly when unassisted.
T.T FML
|
All the branch ends (Orc: 4, Lair: 8 and so on) contain cruel vaults filled to the brim with loot and monsters. The difficulty is usually more than twice the level before. Prudent players think long and hard before entering these places. Nothing's stopping you from heading back up and doing Lair before tackling Orc:4.
|
Lair:8 is easier than Orc:4.
|
On December 06 2011 19:37 MrBitter wrote:
BLEH!
I keep dying in the fucking orc mines, or caves, or whatever the hell it is.
I get down to the part with a MILLION FUCKING OGRES and always get raped.
So annoyed. I was have'n a great run with a Priest of Beogh. Went into Orcs and giggled with glee as my posse ballooned from 3 dedicated followers to like 30, and then cried hysterically as they all got slaughtered while I ran for my life, only to die helplessly when unassisted.
T.T FML
You shouldn't aim to clear branches of the dungeon straight away, when shit gets hard go back to the dungeon and grind that until it gets hard, then go for a lair branch/vaults depending on how far you are.
Also as a HOPr you want to keep your followers on even levels. Leave the warlords on a cleared dungeon floor and do some floors with just shitty orcs to get them to level up.
|
United States10328 Posts
Managing followers is annoying sometimes... it seems a little unclear which will actually follow you down stairs (abominations only seem to follow you if they're exactly adjacent? Or maybe that was because I was a Spriggan.) Also, I don't think I've ever actually gotten an orc promoted to Warlord (more than few Knights, though... T_T)... I suppose I need them to last-hit something strong, right? Or does Beogh promote them randomly?
|
T.T
Another death in Orcs:4
This time I waited to dive into it, but still wasn't strong enough.
I'm really wanting to build a Fire Elementalist, but I can never seem to get past the early game. Any tips?
|
For FE learn to love Conjure Flame. It's a stupid strong spell. Anything that doesn't have ranged attacks and isn't fire resistant early on loses immediately to Conjure Flame--either it's something that fears to enter the space where you have a flame, and thus you stand back and peg it with Throw Flame (or run, if you run out of MP), or it enters the space with flame and burns to death (and if you know beforehand, set up a couple flames in a row so you don't have to tank too many hits to keep the enemy in the flame). Conjure Flame is your only utility spell in your starting book, so maximizing its effectiveness is the most important thing to learn.
Sticky Flame hits really hard over time but has the obvious large disadvantage of being melee-range. You can still usually afford to spend the one turn standing next to an enemy to stick it on something, and often that one cast is all you need. It's the other good spell in your starting book.
I don't really like FE though, since FE gets spells that are: damage, damage, damage, damage + space block, damage, and damage. One big strength of spellcasters in Crawl comes from them having more options to escape or otherwise mitigate dangerous situations, and FE misses that almost completely. Wizards can actually branch into fire conjurations quite naturally but have a significantly better starting spellbook (and they get Conjure Flame too so you can still learn how to use that effectively). Or other elementalists work with a spellset that generally has more flexibility than Fire.
Of course, that said it's true that which class you pick doesn't have a huge impact on your character past the early game. So if you decide that yes you definitely want access to sticky flame early on you can keep plugging away with FEs ... just realize that you're starting with a pretty narrow range of spell effects compared to basically every other caster class in the game.
|
On December 07 2011 14:36 ]343[ wrote:
Managing followers is annoying sometimes... it seems a little unclear which will actually follow you down stairs (abominations only seem to follow you if they're exactly adjacent? Or maybe that was because I was a Spriggan.) Also, I don't think I've ever actually gotten an orc promoted to Warlord (more than few Knights, though... T_T)... I suppose I need them to last-hit something strong, right? Or does Beogh promote them randomly?
Followers go up or down flights of stairs if they are adjacent to you, sentient followers will follow past the first adjacent spot if all adjacent spots are occupied.
Followers gain experience like you do, exp gained is divided equally among followers as long as kills happen on the floor you're on. The game keeps track of the time across all floors, so your followers upstairs will roam around and kill stuff on their own.
Having too many followers also eats too much exp. You will clear floors easily but soon enough you'll realize that you went too far while being too low level.
On December 07 2011 20:55 MrBitter wrote:
T.T
Another death in Orcs:4
This time I waited to dive into it, but still wasn't strong enough.
I'm really wanting to build a Fire Elementalist, but I can never seem to get past the early game. Any tips?
Try again, pick races that can run. FEs are still inferior to necromancers. Necros have the easiest early game of all casters, can easily transition into other schools through transmutations and have better zot potential with their mana refills.
|
I think Wizard has the easiest earlygame of all casters by a significant margin (maybe Stalker since Evaporate is still overpowered; I'm using 0.10 spellbooks so Tm doesn't have the same obviously-best-book-in-the-game book any more).
Blink, Imps, Conjure Flame, Meph. That's 4 spells that are ridiculously good early on (and you get Repel Missiles and Magic Dart as pretty good spells too). Imps can kill anything you will run into until the end of lair except maybe hydras 1v1, and since you have flame + blink + meph you have a great spellset for only having to fight winnable encounters (and both Imps and Conjure Flame have great synergy with Mephitic Cloud). If you have patience you can use Summon Imp as Animate Dead in non-combat situations too since Shadow Imps will create zombies/skeletons for you. Necro has some nice spells but they don't have the escapes that Wizard does, so I don't see how you can say they have an easier early game. Killing stuff is not a problem for spellcasters ... it's not dying that's the problem.
|
Wow and here i was thinking that dungeon master was oldschool ^^
|
God damn, Crawl really is testing me on this game I just started (HEAE).
D:4 had Dowan + Duvessa + Eustachio. I found out about this when Duvessa decided to give me berserkitis with some wand--I don't know what the wand is. I flee downward. Not so fast, says Crawl--it tosses Sigmund (who is probably manageable) and Menkaure (who is not!) at me on D:5. I flee downward again (but both uniques are still sleeping). D:6 is a delightful octagon level, with all the stairs from D:5 in the middle; as I come down I see a half-dozen monsters including an iguana. Not a horrible thing to walk into, but hardly a great welcome. I manage to clear them out, but not too long after I run into a combination Ogre + Sky Beast. Being an AE, I have no way to possibly kill said Sky Beast, so I run down to D: 7.
D: 7 has Joseph and Ijyb! Not the scariest uniques at this point, but I leave Joseph well enough alone and I'm definitely getting tired of all these named monsters. Note that at this point I have no idea where the temple is, and I have no god, and I would like to get Sif or at least Vehumet (but ideally Sif since I want both Chain Lightning and Tornado, and I've tried HEAE of Sif to the tune of two abysmally stupid deaths in otherwise successful games recently and I want to try it again, hopefully minus the death this time).
I luck into a Sif altar on a part of D:6 I initially skipped and join up. At some point in here I identify my two wands ... which are hasting and heal wounds: i.e. probably the two best wands in the game (heal wounds definitely is the best for casters). I also learn Iskenderun's Mystic Blast so I can go kill that pesky sky beast on D:6.
D:8 has yet more fun, tossing at me first Maurice, whom I manage to leave alone for now; then a Bailey--I went in, got a bit of experience, then had an orc close to me so I bailed out--then Blork the Orc, who wasn't a problem; then Pikel, who took some lightning bolts to kill. But lightning bolt, as you might know, is loud as hell so now Maurice is awake and finds me, and I had to kill him. Thankfully I did so, and I also took down some killer bees near the bailey, as well as an ugly thing and redback which escaped from a vault near the bottom of the map. I got lucky and Lair is on D:8 so after clearing the floor I took the steps and set up a stash, and that's where I am right now.
A very eventful early game ... hopefully it calms down for a while from there and I manage to once again get to the point where I just cast chain lightning to kill everything, and maybe this time I won't die to Dispater because I forget to cast Death's Door or die to a Storm Dragon because I didn't realize I didn't re-equip my staff of air after being interrupted while butchering.
|
On December 08 2011 05:10 crate wrote:
God damn, Crawl really is testing me on this game I just started (HEAE).
D:4 had Dowan + Duvessa + Eustachio. I found out about this when Duvessa decided to give me berserkitis with some wand--I don't know what the wand is. I flee downward. Not so fast, says Crawl--it tosses Sigmund (who is probably manageable) and Menkaure (who is not!) at me on D:5. I flee downward again (but both uniques are still sleeping). D:6 is a delightful octagon level, with all the stairs from D:5 in the middle; as I come down I see a half-dozen monsters including an iguana. Not a horrible thing to walk into, but hardly a great welcome. I manage to clear them out, but not too long after I run into a combination Ogre + Sky Beast. Being an AE, I have no way to possibly kill said Sky Beast, so I run down to D: 7.
D: 7 has Joseph and Ijyb! Not the scariest uniques at this point, but I leave Joseph well enough alone and I'm definitely getting tired of all these named monsters. Note that at this point I have no idea where the temple is, and I have no god, and I would like to get Sif or at least Vehumet (but ideally Sif since I want both Chain Lightning and Tornado, and I've tried HEAE of Sif to the tune of two abysmally stupid deaths in otherwise successful games recently and I want to try it again, hopefully minus the death this time).
I luck into a Sif altar on a part of D:6 I initially skipped and join up. At some point in here I identify my two wands ... which are hasting and heal wounds: i.e. probably the two best wands in the game (heal wounds definitely is the best for casters). I also learn Iskenderun's Mystic Blast so I can go kill that pesky sky beast on D:6.
D:8 has yet more fun, tossing at me first Maurice, whom I manage to leave alone for now; then a Bailey--I went in, got a bit of experience, then had an orc close to me so I bailed out--then Blork the Orc, who wasn't a problem; then Pikel, who took some lightning bolts to kill. But lightning bolt, as you might know, is loud as hell so now Maurice is awake and finds me, and I had to kill him. Thankfully I did so, and I also took down some killer bees near the bailey, as well as an ugly thing and redback which escaped from a vault near the bottom of the map. I got lucky and Lair is on D:8 so after clearing the floor I took the steps and set up a stash, and that's where I am right now.
A very eventful early game ... hopefully it calms down for a while from there and I manage to once again get to the point where I just cast chain lightning to kill everything, and maybe this time I won't die to Dispater because I forget to cast Death's Door or die to a Storm Dragon because I didn't realize I didn't re-equip my staff of air after being interrupted while butchering.
Why were you even butchering? Did they do something to necromutation?
|
On December 08 2011 07:30 r33k wrote:
Why were you even butchering? Did they do something to necromutation?
Different games. The second one was in Vault and I had barely gotten tornado castable, so I'm not sure how I was supposed to be in lichform with Necro: 0 and Transmutation: 0 and Sif not having gifted the spell yet.
|
lmao, I hate Orcs:4
This time I was kick'n ass with a DE Wizard (per you guys' suggestions).
I had cleared about half of Orcs:4, and then I went down some stairs and just insta-died.
wtf
This game is so fun, but so fucking enfuriating!
|
On December 08 2011 16:08 MrBitter wrote:
lmao, I hate Orcs:4
This time I was kick'n ass with a DE Wizard (per you guys' suggestions).
I had cleared about half of Orcs:4, and then I went down some stairs and just insta-died.
wtf
This game is so fun, but so fucking enfuriating!
DE Wizard??? That's a terrible combination for a beginner. DE is an intermediate/advanced race due to their super low survivability. Additionally, their awesome spellcasting abilities don't even matter for a regular 3-rune win -- it only helps for getting the highest level spells going earlier than usual and maintaining them at a lower hunger cost. So, basically, for someone going for their first win, there's literally no reason to use a DEWz.
HEWz is much easier. Even a NaWz is easier as long as you understand you need to Blink away from tough enemies and abuse your intrinsic rPois by using Mephitic Cloud, like, all the time.
|
Can someone explain to me how armor works, specifically for casters?
I understand that heavier armor impairs casting, but how much?
Should I use solely robes, or is leather okay? At what point does it become silly for me to add more armor.
And how much strength do I give to a dedicated caster? Obviously 5 is on the lower end of the spectrum, but isn't it important that I pump as much into Intel as possible?
Should I level dodging and armor?
What about fighting and weapon skills? (caster specifically)
At what point should I stop training specific schools of magic?
Sorry for the laundry list of questions, but I've been trying to figure it out myself with very little success.
|
United States10328 Posts
On December 08 2011 16:08 MrBitter wrote:
lmao, I hate Orcs:4
This time I was kick'n ass with a DE Wizard (per you guys' suggestions).
I had cleared about half of Orcs:4, and then I went down some stairs and just insta-died.
wtf
This game is so fun, but so fucking enfuriating!
"went down stairs"... into Elf:1? Ouch T_T
|
On December 09 2011 04:36 MrBitter wrote:
Can someone explain to me how armor works, specifically for casters?
I understand that heavier armor impairs casting, but how much?
It depends on the EV penalty of the armor. The easiest way to see is to just try on whichever armor you're interested in and see how much it hurts. EV penalty of 1 (leather) hurts your spellcasting more than a 0-skill buckler I think. Don't even think about ring mail unless it's an amazing artifact. Anything with a bigger EV hit than -3 should just be considered unequippable without armour skill.
Keep in mind that unless you're training armour skill then robes will actually give you more survivability than any other armor (except animal skins, but no real reason to wear those) since they won't hurt your EV, and the AC you get from armor without Armour skill is pretty small (and as you boost Dodging the EV loss costs you more EV since it gets multiplied).
When in doubt, just wear robes. They have the best potential ego in the game anyway in robes of resistance.
Should I use solely robes, or is leather okay? At what point does it become silly for me to add more armor.
If you find a nice ego or artifact leather it's ok, but you should look for better robes so you can upgrade if you find a nice one. Past leather will hurt your casting significantly. Like I said robes are the best for survivability in most cases. If you want more defenses get a shield.
And how much strength do I give to a dedicated caster? Obviously 5 is on the lower end of the spectrum, but isn't it important that I pump as much into Intel as possible?
Get enough strength so you aren't killing yourself over inventory management. I usually end up at about 7 str on my casters (and then I get Flight later on to give me more capacity, plus it's a generally good spell). Once you have enough carrying capacity you're fine. If you have 6 or less strength you can also theoretically get to 0 from a ring (rings can give -6) so be careful about that.
Should I level dodging and armor?
No to armor unless you're going for a build where you wear heavy armor (which means you should also plan to hit stuff with a weapon, most likely, since you're not going to be as successful with pure spells since you need to spend much more exp to use them). Dodging yes to a degree ... train it up when it's low level and then see. Having Deflect Missiles and the really-high-end damage spells (Chain Lightning, Tornado, Fire Storm, Shatter, etc.) will end up improving your survivability more than more EV will.
What about fighting and weapon skills? (caster specifically)
Fighting definitely yes to some degree since it boosts your maxHP. Train it up some in midgame when it's cheap per level (you wait until then because for one you'll get the levels quicker and for another thing it scales with your max HP, so a few levels of fighting do nothing early on but start being noticeable later). It's however less of a boost than it used to be, so you don't need to go too far.
Weapon skills definitely no unless you're planning on killing stuff with them. Don't run out of MP at a bad time and you won't need to have weapon skills--flee to a safe area before you get too low! Sublimation of Blood or Sif's channeling can be emergency MP regen options, though they're not ideal and it depends on how much of an emergency it is. Potions of magic are amazing also.
At what point should I stop training specific schools of magic?
When you can cast all the spells you want to cast from that school at Excellent success (or at least Great, if you can afford miscasts of said spell). Extra spellpower gets pretty serious stepdowns at high amounts so it's not likely you'll get much extra damage from continuing to train your skill all the way to 27.
Spellcasting is good all the way to 27 since it gives you more spell slots and more MP, so you can leave that on all game if you want.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
