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Cokefreak
Finland8094 Posts
On September 27 2011 21:56 Probe1 wrote: How can you denounce someone for bringing up Nazis when the OP compares the current situation to 1943.. This man speaks wise words, I'm going to leave this thread now, feeling like it's turning me into a racist just reading it. | ||
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ondik
Czech Republic2908 Posts
On September 27 2011 21:52 3Form wrote: I just want to clarify, when you talk about how gypsies should "integrate into society", what exactly do you mean by that? You basically mean stop being gypsies, don't you? WE mean stop living on welfare, stop robbing, start working and send their children to school. There are no problems or hate towards black minority or asian minority here (and I'm sure it's the case for most countries), yet almost everyone has problems with gypsy minority. How can you explain that? | ||
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Taguchi
Greece1575 Posts
in my entire worldview the only people whose way of life i cannot support are the roma gypsies, and thats simply because of how they treat their children, as commodities, cheap source of labor and so on those children do NOT go to school, even when local communities and the government encourage and even try to enforce some level of education crime and all the rest are a natural by-product of this neglect, for how else is a person to survive after having received zero tools to work with, and then the cycle is repeated | ||
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m00nchile
Slovenia240 Posts
On September 27 2011 21:54 plated.rawr wrote: Stealing, scavenging - meh, they're both pretty much the same. As for assault and murder - do you honestly believe that every gypsy takes part in this, that there's some genetic gypsy-only murder-and-assault-gene? Of course there isn't. Stop acting like it's some inherent flaw with the people as a whole. If their culture fosters such impulses though, then that's a serious problem which must be dealt with, but it has nothing to do with race. Claiming it to be is ignorant, insulting and bigoted. As for jews, they were very disliked before the second world war in pretty much the entire developed world. Had not the Holocaust been so specifically targetted and caused so unfathomably many deaths, the jewish people would not have earned any of the sympathy they got post-war, and would still be regarded as a "plague to humanity" by large numbers. Their culture is based on doing whatever the hell they want with complete disregard for the law or anybody else. In a culture like that, assault and murder come by much quicker. It has nothing to do with race, it has to do with lifestyle. I'm repeating my self, but hey. Whenever we have communal waste disposal, gypsies come rummaging through trash looking for metal and they bring their kids (as young as 6 or 7) with them. Why send your kids to school when you can theach them such wonderfull things like stealing and trash picking. | ||
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Maenander
Germany4919 Posts
On September 27 2011 21:51 Manimal_pro wrote: Cloud, you are very right. The gypsies are not people who can live in a normal society, they don't like education, they don't like work and will do absolutely anything to gain money. Most of them steal, beg on the streets and at crossroads and teach their children to do the same. I'm pretty sure they cannot be helped as a whole. literally there is no solution to integrate them into society. The french gave them 300 EUR to get on the first plane back to romania. Great solution sarkozy. they came back and found another way to smuggle themselves back into france or other countries. i would be in charge of law making i would make squatting a crime punishable by community service. if you don't want to do anything beneficial to society you should be forced to do it i realize i'm pretty extremist but i am so sickened by the current situation and the authorities failure to do anything useful to help the ones that want to be helped Is it correct that the situation was better during the communist times? If so, what has changed? | ||
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andycz
288 Posts
On September 27 2011 21:52 3Form wrote: I just want to clarify, when you talk about how gypsies should "integrate into society", what exactly do you mean by that? You basically mean stop being gypsies, don't you? Yea, because "being a gypsy" basically means: 1) not having a job 2) living off state support 3) having a fuckload of kids to get more money from 2) 4) not sending your kids to school and instead preparing them to live just like you do 5) occasionally partake on criminal activities because it's just another way to get money I don't see how you can justify that and say that we shouldn't be so hard on them since it's jsut their culture.. lol. | ||
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LedFarmer
United States161 Posts
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ondik
Czech Republic2908 Posts
On September 27 2011 21:59 Maenander wrote: Is it correct that the situation was better during the communist times? If so, what has changed? Everyone was forced to work and communist didn't give a shit about "different culture". | ||
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Kukaracha
France1954 Posts
People will never learn. Some gypsies steal things. Others don't. Most indulge in shady activities, because they're outcasts, and that's what outcasts do in general. Some jews were rich. Others were poor. Most were involved in small businesses or the financial world, because they were not allowed to posess land, and landless people must climb the social ladder through other means as banks and trade. I'm so sad that coming to TL today made me understand the growth of nazism a little better. On September 27 2011 21:58 ondik wrote: WE mean stop living on welfare, stop robbing, start working and send their children to school. There are no problems or hate towards black minority or asian minority here (and I'm sure it's the case for most countries), yet almost everyone has problems with gypsy minority. How can you explain that? You don't have a big amount of Africans and Asians. With 10 000 000 of foreigners, France has, and trust me, the hate is just the same. You're just trying to justify your primitive reaction and make it look like a logical, reasonable opinion. | ||
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andycz
288 Posts
On September 27 2011 21:59 Maenander wrote: Is it correct that the situation was better during the communist times? If so, what has changed? It was simply better because everyone had to work during the communist times - you didn't work, you went to jail. Thus, gypsies were forced to work and they were integrated into the society, less or more. There was also a lot less of them here back then. Not justifying communism in any way. Fuck communism. | ||
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Gesh
Bulgaria69 Posts
On September 27 2011 21:18 Passion wrote: That's not really normal, is it? One member of a minority community causes an accident ("...ran over a 19-year-old Bulgarian man.") and they all must leave? Well, there was a lot of tension and problems even before, this is not the reason for these riots and demands, this is only the occasion (hell, I'm not sure I'm translating my thoughts correctly). The gypsis are a constant problem in Bulgaria and in the concrete area where the .. hm ... 'accident' happened, there were a lot of conflicts with them, the gypsis are united in a sort of a criminal clan and are terrorising the locals (AFAIK, I live in a other area, I may be wrong). The relatives of the killed boy claim that there were death threats from the said clan before his demise. And the head of the clan was insolent enough to respond to the riots with "Dont push us". What, really? So, you see, this isnt your usual ran-over-by-a-car accident. | ||
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Deadlyfish
Denmark1980 Posts
On September 27 2011 22:04 Kukaracha wrote: WTF is wrong with this thread, it's fucking 1933 all over again. People will never learn. Some gypsies steal things. Others don't. Most indulge in shady activities, because they're outcasts, and that's what outcasts do in general. Some jews were rich. Others were poor. Most were involved in small businesses or the financial world, because they were not allowed to posess land, and landless people must climb the social ladder through other means as banks and trade. I'm so sad that coming to TL today made me understand the growth of nazism a little better. Disliking groups of people who steal, abuse their children and live off of welfare and whatever their children can steal or sell themselves for = Nazism. What? Again, not saying all gypsies do this, but there is a huge correlation, and denying it is just hiding from the truth. I really feel for many of the gypsy children. | ||
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niteReloaded
Croatia5281 Posts
It's present in Croatia too, altho I'd say they're pretty peaceful here; I can't really remember a real incident. They do beg for money on crossroads etc, treat their kids poorly, always look for metals etc, but they never did anything bad to me, and I actually play basketball with some of them on the local playground. However, responding to the problems that do occur, the only solution would be to end the mentality that their culture seems to have no matter which country they live in. One realistic way to do it would be to make them a country. Then they'll realize that they don't have anyone to leech from and they will possibly grow into fully functional human beings. The other, cruel way would be to take away their kids, based on the poor treatment, and give them for adoption to normal couples. Then the gypsie 'culture' dies, but no human is killed. | ||
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andycz
288 Posts
On September 27 2011 22:04 Kukaracha wrote: WTF is wrong with this thread, it's fucking 1933 all over again. People will never learn. Some gypsies steal things. Others don't. Most indulge in shady activities, because they're outcasts, and that's what outcasts do in general. Some jews were rich. Others were poor. Most were involved in small businesses or the financial world, because they were not allowed to posess land, and landless people must climb the social ladder through other means as banks and trade. I'm so sad that coming to TL today made me understand the growth of nazism a little better. Just fuck off if you don't see the difference between the situations. Are you retarded or what? "Some gypsies steal things. Others don't" - Most do, minority does not. Living off state support without a will to ever have a job is stealing. "Most indulge in shady activities, because they're outcasts, and that's what outcasts do in general. " - so when you're an outcast, you steal instead of trying to integrate, and it's okay? LOL. Jews didn't hurt anybody and their persecution was based on racism. Not the case with most of the gypsies here. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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speedphlux
Bulgaria962 Posts
The main protests were vs. Kiril Rashkov and his family, who plagued the area of over a decade now. The police and the authorities have done nothing to prevent it and the people from that area has risen up to ask for their expulsion from the area. The murder of the 19 years old boy was the spark that caused that flame to burst out. In the following protests, another young man died due to heart failure (he was reported to have an artificial clamp or w/e on his heart). In the early stages of the protests, a member of the Rashkov family got in a car and drove thru a crowd of people, injuring quite a few. I'm sure about at least 4 police officers who have limbs broken, but I'm sure there are other civilians hurt as well. After in the initial protests the house and few of the cars of the Rashkov family caught fire, Kiril Rashkov came on television, threatening that he'll "cut the throats" of those responsible and that he'll "call in reinforcements from other gypsy tribes". In the aftermath, the gypsy head court of justice, known as "The Meshkere", sentenced Kiril Rashkov to death by hanging, but since that court has no real value, the sentence can't be performed and has absolutely no jurisdictial value. The actions of the court mean that pretty much no other gypsy clan would aid the Rashkov family, so there's no ground for racial hatred. Of course, we have the usual nationalistic parties, trying to "ride the protest", but the people from the area are pretty much neglecting the political side of things. The only political aspect of the whole deal is that all the authorities haven't done their job already and that had to happen. Gypsies from all over the country are scared to let their kids to school and refuse to go to work themselves, due to random, unorganized, shady activities by nationalistic bikers, but the main line is that this protest isn't targeting the gypsies. | ||
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Manimal_pro
Romania991 Posts
IMO there is no solution for them, only for their children. in romania the first 10 grades in school are mandatory for any child but who cares about that. They gypsy parents get fined because their children are abandoning school at a young age. Do they care? No, because they don't pay fines, ever | ||
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LedFarmer
United States161 Posts
On September 27 2011 22:07 niteReloaded wrote: The other, cruel way would be to take away their kids, based on the poor treatment, and give them for adoption to normal couples. Then the gypsie 'culture' dies, but no human is killed. We did this with the Native Americans, it worked pretty well. | ||
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Deadlyfish
Denmark1980 Posts
On September 27 2011 22:07 niteReloaded wrote: Ugh, I had no idea so many countries have this problem. It's present in Croatia too, altho I'd say they're pretty peaceful here; I can't really remember a real incident. They do beg for money on crossroads etc, treat their kids poorly, always look for metals etc, but they never did anything bad to me, and I actually play basketball with some of them on the local playground. However, responding to the problems that do occur, the only solution would be to end the mentality that their culture seems to have no matter which country they live in. The only somewhat realistic way to do it would be to make them a country. Then they'll realize that they don't have anyone to leech from and they will possibly grow into fully functional human beings. The other, cruel way would be to take away their kids, based on the poor treatment, and give them for adoption to normal couples. Then the gypsie 'culture' dies, but no human is killed. Yea, you cant really make them a country, that's just not possible. You need to take their children away when they're being abused, and send them to jail/institutions when they treat people like that. Need to just enforce the law basically. | ||
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m00nchile
Slovenia240 Posts
On September 27 2011 22:04 Kukaracha wrote: WTF is wrong with this thread, it's fucking 1933 all over again. People will never learn. Some gypsies steal things. Others don't. Most indulge in shady activities, because they're outcasts, and that's what outcasts do in general. Some jews were rich. Others were poor. Most were involved in small businesses or the financial world, because they were not allowed to posess land, and landless people must climb the social ladder through other means as banks and trade. I'm so sad that coming to TL today made me understand the growth of nazism a little better. In my country, schools exist solely for gypsy children. Before you ask, it's not illegal for gypsy children to attent regular school, these schools are set up in areas with prevalent gypsy population and teachers go door to door to encourage parents to enroll their children (for free ofc). These kinds of programs have the capacity to fix the gypsy problem in a generation or 2, but won't. Because gypsy parents still keep their children out of school and teach them begging, stealing and trash picking. These kinds of programs have existed for many years, not to mention welfare and free housing, but the prevailing problem is that these people don't want to change for the better and drag their kids along. How exactely are you equating this situation to piling people into cattle carts and taking them to death camps? | ||
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Kukaracha
France1954 Posts
On September 27 2011 22:06 Deadlyfish wrote: Disliking groups of people who steal, abuse their children and live off of welfare and whatever their children can steal or sell themselves for = Nazism. What? Again, not saying all gypsies do this, but there is a huge correlation, and denying it is just hiding from the truth. I really feel for many of the gypsy children. Do you actually know people from the gipsy community? Or are you simply conveying rumours and general statements? Exactly. Oh look at me, I think BLACK PEOPLE like chicken, and they're thieves too, but I'm not racist, noooo. | ||
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