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On November 03 2024 20:14 Vision_ wrote:
to me the problem with cyclones can be resumed because of the addition of another armored unit while the balance between armored and light was still in favor of armored unit.
In my mind stalkers are these units which are in this bad spot, they are 'armored' while they are fast, able to harass and be played with micro. I feel some people don t want to tweak stalkers, but they should.
If you looks closer, armored units aren t defined to be fast, except in zerg races but usually it s balanced by a very short range attack. Stalkers are clearly a strong unit until mid game and i feel they are fine like this but in switching their armor to light, it could open a new place for a new armored unit.
PS: Surprisingly, tech lab units are define to be armored and reactor units mean to be light. Then cyclone become the first armored unit able to be 'reactored' which is a none sense. Then if the question is about the reactor i would allow cyclones to have two lock on targets counterbalanced by increasing supply cost from 2 to 3
Changing Stalkers to Light is a ridiculous idea. That would mean they suddenly take bonus damage from Banelings, Hellions/Helbats and most importantly Phoenixes.
It would be a huge nerf to all 3 match ups. ZvP because Zerg doesn't really have a lot of anti-armored damage and giving them the Light tag would just make them extra fragile vs Banelings. vs Terran because now Hellions deal bonus damage to literally EVERY unit off of the Gateway.
And PvP it would absolutely ruin the match up because now the only unit you can make in the early to midgame to counter Phoenixes other than Phoenixes gets absolutely demolished by them, when they already were a pretty poor counter unit to begin with.
The only way I could see this working was if you completely redesigned the Stalker into a harassment unit and gave Protoss the Dragoon to replace it as the core ranged damage dealer in the army. But that's far too radical of a change for any balance patch so it will never happen. We're not going to start adding new core combat units to the game. So this would just end up being a big nerf to Protoss in all 3 match ups.
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We already talked about this problem,then i m sure i forgot those interactions (phoenix especially), so my bad.
What if stalkers would be allowed to blink while they are lifted (...)
For hellions it could be considered as a buff for Terrans,
Banelings are a really cost efficient unit and it s clearly an issue because they would be again a threat for Protoss but without any tests i can figure out. I will try some tests maybe first with banelings, then if they are good, i will test against a bio ball.
But the good news in the story is that if you increase slightly the base damage of stalkers, they will be able to "two shots" banelings, it s a hope in this suggestion
If you compare ZvP and ZvT for banelings interaction, i feel like there s a small gap in term of potential or sustain against banelings. Maybe Protoss can handle this kind of nerf against banelings; just check forcefield/biles interaction, if they were balanced with the common sense, biles won t break forcefields with a single shot for obvious reason. So this thing help to consider the suggestion.
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On November 03 2024 16:26 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Btw few ideas to consider for Energy Charge, to help compensate for weaker early game with no Battery Overcharge:
1) It restores 200 Energy over 10 seconds.
2) It restores 100 Shield in addition to 100 Energy.
3) It restores 100 Shield and Energy over 10 seconds.
I think these are pretty self-explanatory:
-Making it restore over time would allow you to buff the total amount of energy restored, so it's more closer to a direct replacement of Battery Overcharge (Batteries only have 100 Energy max) when cast on a Battery. Restoring only 100 Energy on a Battery is a bit underwhelming compared to using it on a Sentry or HT.
-Making it restore Energy (or both Energy + Shield) over time makes EMP less effective in a way: They have to choose between EMP earlier to stop Protoss from using the Shield/Energy, or wait til they have 100 Shield/Energy to use a EMP at its fullest, or wait until 75 Energy to stop a HT from Storm. Also, it might seem like 200 energy (2-3 storms) over 10 secs could be way too much storms, but keep in mind the opponent now has time to react and back off or EMP. With instant energy restoration, Protoss can restore energy instantly after EMP and cast storm before getting EMP'd again. I think it'd lead to a bit of a silly test in speed and be unnecessarily volatile. Also, HTs likely have some energy already, so it more likely would gain roughly 150 Energy at most (if the opponent retreats - if not then HTs can cast storm to expend energy and then gain the full 200 total energy over time), while giving 200 energy over time to a Battery even if opponent disengages still allows you to utilize the 200 energy for healing.
-It would become visually much clearer to see and give the opponent more time to recognize and react.
-Restoring Shield might feel like it's too strong and similar to Battery Overcharge, but keep in mind it'd be for 1 specific unit, you can't change the unit that's being healed like with Battery Overcharge
-Same with the idea of restoring 200 energy over 10 secs; it would be for 1 specific unit/building, you can't change it
The numbers are rough and can be tweaked, but I feel one of these is the way to go and intuitive/clear enough game design wise for the ability, and makes sure Protoss early isn't too weak without Battery Overcharge. It also allows for as much or more skill expression and choices. It also gives choices for the opponent, such as when to EMP and how/when to engage.
I think it would help if it also gave +100 max energy for a duration. But it still wouldn't be sufficient to what a 100% battery overcharge, or mothership core pylon overcharge used to do.
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Then putting the idea of stalkers aside,
I think Colossus/Vikings interaction when terran push is becoming an issue.
Terran only build vikings because of colossus, and vikings tweaks have been adressed since a long time. It can be absolutely balanced, but in my mind, if Terran still build vikings then there s maybe a problem (rigged)
In applying the same idea to colossus :
Colossus
250/100 to 150/100
armored removed, light added
It could be balanced in TvP and don t impact too much ZvP
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This is a good direction for the patch to move imo, much better then the 1st iteration. Here is my pathetic and dumb balance suggestions, feel free to ridicule me.
- Mothership can be abducted, but the abduct pull is only half of what it is normally. This is to leave some Viper counter play, but now you need 2 Vipers to fully pull it into the Zerg forces. This means it requires a 400 gas investment from Zerg to be able to instantly kill the MS.
- Guardian Shield now reduces ranged damage by 3 instead of 2. This will make early game Sentries much more powerful defensively with Energy Overcharge against Terran aggression, and in the later parts of the game will make GW armies more durable against bio and hydra play.
- Adept attack changed from projectile to hitscan attack (correct me if the wording here is wrong) like a marine. This will increase Adepts damage by all but eliminating overkill, and make them more micro friendly. 2 birds with one stone, a GW unit is better but only if you have the micro to utilize it.
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Same i m reporting some suggestions after watching at wardi tv :
Protoss Meta (Showtime/Clem) :
blink into colossus thermal lance. Looks like Colossus push have no impact on the bio ball. In patch 4.0.0, the range was increased from 6 to 7 but they decreased also the damage, i m wondering if the damage can be restored
Patch 4.0.0: Thermal Lance damage changed from 12 to 10 (+5 light).
Hellions push (Clem/Solar)
It looks hard to handle for Solar maybe due to the new queen price.
Damage Queen increase from 2 x 4 to 2 x (4 + 1) against armored
Terran Meta :
Medivacs slight nerf : medivacs healing point is 800, i think it s a bit too much so the rate should be decreased from 4 to 3 but the healing rate could be the same.
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On November 03 2024 22:29 ejozl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2024 16:26 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Btw few ideas to consider for Energy Charge, to help compensate for weaker early game with no Battery Overcharge:
1) It restores 200 Energy over 10 seconds.
2) It restores 100 Shield in addition to 100 Energy.
3) It restores 100 Shield and Energy over 10 seconds.
I think these are pretty self-explanatory:
-Making it restore over time would allow you to buff the total amount of energy restored, so it's more closer to a direct replacement of Battery Overcharge (Batteries only have 100 Energy max) when cast on a Battery. Restoring only 100 Energy on a Battery is a bit underwhelming compared to using it on a Sentry or HT.
-Making it restore Energy (or both Energy + Shield) over time makes EMP less effective in a way: They have to choose between EMP earlier to stop Protoss from using the Shield/Energy, or wait til they have 100 Shield/Energy to use a EMP at its fullest, or wait until 75 Energy to stop a HT from Storm. Also, it might seem like 200 energy (2-3 storms) over 10 secs could be way too much storms, but keep in mind the opponent now has time to react and back off or EMP. With instant energy restoration, Protoss can restore energy instantly after EMP and cast storm before getting EMP'd again. I think it'd lead to a bit of a silly test in speed and be unnecessarily volatile. Also, HTs likely have some energy already, so it more likely would gain roughly 150 Energy at most (if the opponent retreats - if not then HTs can cast storm to expend energy and then gain the full 200 total energy over time), while giving 200 energy over time to a Battery even if opponent disengages still allows you to utilize the 200 energy for healing.
-It would become visually much clearer to see and give the opponent more time to recognize and react.
-Restoring Shield might feel like it's too strong and similar to Battery Overcharge, but keep in mind it'd be for 1 specific unit, you can't change the unit that's being healed like with Battery Overcharge
-Same with the idea of restoring 200 energy over 10 secs; it would be for 1 specific unit/building, you can't change it
The numbers are rough and can be tweaked, but I feel one of these is the way to go and intuitive/clear enough game design wise for the ability, and makes sure Protoss early isn't too weak without Battery Overcharge. It also allows for as much or more skill expression and choices. It also gives choices for the opponent, such as when to EMP and how/when to engage. I think it would help if it also gave +100 max energy for a duration. But it still wouldn't be sufficient to what a 100% battery overcharge, or mothership core pylon overcharge used to do.
I didn t see many matchup but Protoss seems to have more difficulties to hold terran push especially the three tanks push.
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On November 04 2024 02:33 Vision_ wrote:
Hellions push (Clem/Solar)
It looks hard to handle for Solar maybe due to the new queen price.
Damage Queen increase from 2 x 4 to 2 x (4 + 1) against armored
Oh no! Zerg might have to make units that aren't Queens? What a shame...
This is the exact intention of the nerf. We don't need to buff Queen damage to make up for Queens costing more, Zergs need to stop being greedy with their overreliance on Queens.
EDIT:
I posted this earlier:
Please can the OP be updated to include the Lurker changes in the "full updated changelog" so that they're visible to everyone despite the Balance Council's inability to write their own patch notes properly?
Pretty please?
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If Zerg got hydralisks T1 they could make a different unit of roachs able to counter the hellbat push.
But you re right let s say it s too simple as a suggestion.
Medivacs are now the best unit of Terran, their heal affect hellbat which can kill zerglings by millions if they are constantly heal. The heal of medivacs cancel one attack of a queen, which mean that Zerg will oftenly try to catch the medivacs but it s a desperate move.
Let s be honest, we like the fact that some interactions between units are extremely deadly but sometimes i have to suggest the first idea which comes to my mind even if it s bad.
In reality there s no downside to make hydralisk T1, you can also remove banelings nest and switch centrifugal hooks to the spawning pool unlocked with the T2 technology (lair). One of the advantage of putting hydralisk T1 is the gamble for Zerg to make multiple hatchery before his lair upgrade. As the cost of hydralisk is pretty insane at start, Zerg can spend ressource for his defense but it has to be really cautious because if he gambles to counter attack then he could be stopped by the technology of Terran (or Protoss in the other case)
Plus, Baneling nest all-in T1 is not a used strategy at pro level, so the building is never exploited and his position in the tree can arguably be discussed
PS : this suggestion can be figured out if it really exists a difficulty for Zerg to hold hellbat push
Then there s maybe an idea beside moving hydralisks T1. Indeed, hydralisks is the first unit with three upgrades, so probably grooved spines can be available without Lair (which could open new build order and strategy)
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I love your ideas Vision, please keep on posting those
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On November 04 2024 19:26 bela.mervado wrote:
I love your ideas Vision, please keep on posting those
We have pretty basics lines of lecture (brood war), thank you
Wouldn t that be fun to have a race with three basic unit T1.
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I like it! Let's see how it does on Wardi's next PTR tournament.
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Colossus has only been buffed since 4.0 it was much more powerful prior though, gaining +4 dmg pr. upg.
The old colossus wouldn't even be OP because of how much more powerful lotv corruptors and vikings have become, here I agree.
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I hope that the Purification Nova can deal not only 100(200 vs shields) within radius of 1.5. Beyond that, within radius of 1.5 to 2, it could deal an additional 25 damage.
This 25 damage wouldn’t directly kill any combat units, but 100+25 damage is just enough to kill Marauder and Ravager.
This means that Terran and Zerg wouldn’t have to worry about suddenly being hit by Purification Nova and suffering heavy losses, nor would they have to avoid every Purification Nova, as Marauder and Ravager can survive one Purification Nova damage.
However, this also means that if hit by one Purification Nova, they must be particularly cautious of a second hit. There wouldn’t be required two full damage Purification Nova to kill Marauder and Ravager, as one Purification Nova plus the secondary 25 damage would already cause significant losses.
Terran and Zerg players would need to evaluate their current status to determine if they can afford the cost of being hit by a Purification Nova, choosing between avoiding the Purification Nova or continuing the fight. This adds more depth compared to simply avoiding the Purification Nova.
Interestingly, mathematical calculations show that 145 × 1.375^2 × π ≈ 100 × 1.5^2 × π + 25 × (2^2 - 1.5^2) × π.
The former is slightly higher than the latter, so this is still nerf for Purification Nova.
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Yeah I feel Colossus is overdue for a small buff. It's the unit that you can buff without being worried about Protoss deathball becoming too strong like in WoL/HotS, and Colossus isn't a unit you want to mass like getting 8 of.
(Corruptor and Vikings have been buffed and there's Vipers, and Matrix has been buffed indirectly with quicker/cheaper Ravens, and with no Battery Overcharge it'll be harder to open with them)
I especially feel this because the Disruptor is still in a nerfed state compared to when it was 3 supply and did more damage and had 1.5 radius. Some of that AOE/zoning power should be going somewhere, like the Colossus.
It's fine if they don't want to revert Disruptor to 3 supply cus they still want to keep Disruptors as more of a support unit than a massable unit, but then give some more stable damage to Colossus.
If not damage, then you could just give Colossus +50 HP, instead of swapping 50 Shield to HP. Vikings have more HP and are more microable, and corruptors move much faster than back then. Matrix is a thing now and disables them easier than back then. Colossus feel like big glass cannons that aren't that strong and could maybe just use a straight up 50 HP buff. Like they're strong when there's still low tech armies with lots of T1 light units, but they lose a lot of value once that's not the case anymore. This could make up for no more Battery Overcharge too.
Another weird thing about swapping 50 Shield to 50 HP for Colossus:
This change helps lategame more so than early game, where T may not have enough EMPs to double EMP your Colossus or just doesn't want to use that much energy to remove that last 50 Shield. Earlier on when T doesn't have enough to double EMP, this may be a slight nerf in early game situations because you more easily take hull damage, and trying to poke at tank pushes with your Colossus and heal its Shields up will be weaker.
So that's why I feel they should maybe just give it raw +50 HP buff. Then it strictly buffs earlier game where there is no more Battery Overcharge to help Colossus vs early pushes, as well as later game you'll have that extra 50 HP vs mass EMPs.
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Nice, good job 
Let's test it and see how it pans out.
It is not always easy to revise a proposal. Great that the council did so and I applaud them for it. Thank you
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I'm reading some of the older comments: the 4 buffs to voids patch wasn't so stupid, the unit wasn't used at all and this patch made protoss relevant at pro lvl. It was overly ambitious, sure and some of it needed to be scaled back.
It's still better than what the council gave us, which is just anti protoss bias. It could be that the intern gave power to theese nerds because they responded toxically to this patch. Then they got power and they removed the chance to be a pro gamer for protoss players.
HerO went 2-6 vs. serral and 3-0 vs. reynor. HerO is the pvz specialist and literally revolutionized the game, meanwhile reynor is dogshit vs. protoss (pig's words). This matchup needs brains, and reynor clearly has a mental block vs. toss, and likes to play LoL and off race while herO is actually giving sc2 his all.
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On November 06 2024 12:55 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Yeah I feel Colossus is overdue for a small buff. It's the unit that you can buff without being worried about Protoss deathball becoming too strong like in WoL/HotS, and Colossus isn't a unit you want to mass like getting 8 of.
(Corruptor and Vikings have been buffed and there's Vipers, and Matrix has been buffed indirectly with quicker/cheaper Ravens, and with no Battery Overcharge it'll be harder to open with them)
I especially feel this because the Disruptor is still in a nerfed state compared to when it was 3 supply and did more damage and had 1.5 radius. Some of that AOE/zoning power should be going somewhere, like the Colossus.
It's fine if they don't want to revert Disruptor to 3 supply cus they still want to keep Disruptors as more of a support unit than a massable unit, but then give some more stable damage to Colossus.
If not damage, then you could just give Colossus +50 HP, instead of swapping 50 Shield to HP. Vikings have more HP and are more microable, and corruptors move much faster than back then. Matrix is a thing now and disables them easier than back then. Colossus feel like big glass cannons that aren't that strong and could maybe just use a straight up 50 HP buff. Like they're strong when there's still low tech armies with lots of T1 light units, but they lose a lot of value once that's not the case anymore. This could make up for no more Battery Overcharge too.
Another weird thing about swapping 50 Shield to 50 HP for Colossus:
This change helps lategame more so than early game, where T may not have enough EMPs to double EMP your Colossus or just doesn't want to use that much energy to remove that last 50 Shield. Earlier on when T doesn't have enough to double EMP, this may be a slight nerf in early game situations because you more easily take hull damage, and trying to poke at tank pushes with your Colossus and heal its Shields up will be weaker.
So that's why I feel they should maybe just give it raw +50 HP buff. Then it strictly buffs earlier game where there is no more Battery Overcharge to help Colossus vs early pushes, as well as later game you'll have that extra 50 HP vs mass EMPs.
Tbh when I see Ps win PvT it's almost always on the back of colossi midgame timings (or blink stalker attacks tbf). They're heavily disfavored once libs+ghosts come out, they are quite weak to tank pushes until colossi come out, but the time between 2 colossi and a Ts getting enough vikings to deal with them is usually where P can often deal significant damage if they didn't get crippled earlier.
Tbh I'd buff P's AA. P's problem is that almost all of their reasonable answers to libs/lurkers get countered by AA and they have no reliable way to deal with air AA. P has by far the slowest production speed of air units and their ground to air is either a huge gas sink (high temps+archons) or kinda shit (stalkers), so whenever they get tempests, colossi or carriers the opposing side shits out a bunch of corruptors or vikings or just 2-3 vipers and trade them against the protoss high tech because stalkers don't cut it and the rest is extremely immobile (and expensive). And then it's ground vs ground again and P just looses that lategame.
I honestly think phoenixes should actually trade efficiently with vikings considering that the latter have tons of more range and T has way better ground to air anyways and libs do aoe and emps wreck phoenixes. I'd prolly add some damage to Phoenix range and a post-blink update for stalkers to twilight that gives them +4 damage vs air or something similar so early game isn't affected much.
Or make the void ray actually useful AA, idk.
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On November 11 2024 09:15 Archeon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2024 12:55 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Yeah I feel Colossus is overdue for a small buff. It's the unit that you can buff without being worried about Protoss deathball becoming too strong like in WoL/HotS, and Colossus isn't a unit you want to mass like getting 8 of.
(Corruptor and Vikings have been buffed and there's Vipers, and Matrix has been buffed indirectly with quicker/cheaper Ravens, and with no Battery Overcharge it'll be harder to open with them)
I especially feel this because the Disruptor is still in a nerfed state compared to when it was 3 supply and did more damage and had 1.5 radius. Some of that AOE/zoning power should be going somewhere, like the Colossus.
It's fine if they don't want to revert Disruptor to 3 supply cus they still want to keep Disruptors as more of a support unit than a massable unit, but then give some more stable damage to Colossus.
If not damage, then you could just give Colossus +50 HP, instead of swapping 50 Shield to HP. Vikings have more HP and are more microable, and corruptors move much faster than back then. Matrix is a thing now and disables them easier than back then. Colossus feel like big glass cannons that aren't that strong and could maybe just use a straight up 50 HP buff. Like they're strong when there's still low tech armies with lots of T1 light units, but they lose a lot of value once that's not the case anymore. This could make up for no more Battery Overcharge too.
Another weird thing about swapping 50 Shield to 50 HP for Colossus:
This change helps lategame more so than early game, where T may not have enough EMPs to double EMP your Colossus or just doesn't want to use that much energy to remove that last 50 Shield. Earlier on when T doesn't have enough to double EMP, this may be a slight nerf in early game situations because you more easily take hull damage, and trying to poke at tank pushes with your Colossus and heal its Shields up will be weaker.
So that's why I feel they should maybe just give it raw +50 HP buff. Then it strictly buffs earlier game where there is no more Battery Overcharge to help Colossus vs early pushes, as well as later game you'll have that extra 50 HP vs mass EMPs. Tbh when I see Ps win PvT it's almost always on the back of colossi midgame timings (or blink stalker attacks tbf). They're heavily disfavored once libs+ghosts come out, they are quite weak to tank pushes until colossi come out, but the time between 2 colossi and a Ts getting enough vikings to deal with them is usually where P can often deal significant damage if they didn't get crippled earlier. Tbh I'd buff P's AA. P's problem is that almost all of their reasonable answers to libs/lurkers get countered by AA and they have no reliable way to deal with air AA. P has by far the slowest production speed of air units and their ground to air is either a huge gas sink (high temps+archons) or kinda shit (stalkers), so whenever they get tempests, colossi or carriers the opposing side shits out a bunch of corruptors or vikings or just 2-3 vipers and trade them against the protoss high tech because stalkers don't cut it and the rest is extremely immobile (and expensive). And then it's ground vs ground again and P just looses that lategame. I honestly think phoenixes should actually trade efficiently with vikings considering that the latter have tons of more range and T has way better ground to air anyways and libs do aoe and emps wreck phoenixes. I'd prolly add some damage to Phoenix range and a post-blink update for stalkers to twilight that gives them +4 damage vs air or something similar so early game isn't affected much. Or make the void ray actually useful AA, idk.
Yeah it's a tough one for sure. Viking gaining 10 HP really made it less close vs Phoenixes. Maybe Phoenix damage can be slightly reworked, like swap 1 damage to Light to All. Then it'd do slightly better vs Vikings, and could be a bit more of an all-rounder, doing slightly better vs Corruptors, Liberators, and even capital ships. It could be interesting because then Phoenixes can do slightly more damage to ground units too like Queens or Tanks. But maybe that'd make Phoenix wars just more prevalent in PvP.
I think tweaking the supply of some air units could be a way too, they're a bit weird right now:
1) Tempests should ideally be 5 supply instead of 4. I agree with making Disruptors 4 supply so they have more of a support role than something you mass. Making Tempest 4 supply instead of 5 is a good bandaid fix to give lategame P a little more power, since Tempests are so weak in a straight up fight against Corruptors for example. And I think having support Tempests (a non-splash zoning unit) as a more common answer to Libs and Lurkers can be fun to watch too.
However, my main issues with this is that identity wise it's supposed to be a capital ship, and secondly this means that you can have way more Tempests vs BCs now. Before, Mass BC used to wreck P lategame, but they buffed Tempest microability and manueverability so that warping ontop gives Tempest enough time to move away and be pretty OK and not rely on MS recall to escape. Now you can get 30 Tempests vs 20 BCs (25% more), which i think skews things a little much in Protoss's favor maybe. Even warping ontop will not be enough to get a decent trade now. If they keep Tempests at 4 supply, maybe just slightly nerf their damage vs Massive from +22 to +18 or something, so it takes 9 shots instead of 8 shots to kill a BC (48 total vs Massive instead of 52). That way in lategame maxed armies they still do slightly better vs Corruptors/Vikings supply wise and can be easier to get vs Libs/Lurkers, and not so much better vs BCs/Carriers/BLs.
2) Voids are a bit supply inefficient, but interestingly their Shield/HP/damage vs armored is basically the same as the Immortal (other than needing to turn on the beam). So, i see why it is 4 supply, but maybe 3 supply can be justified since the beam needs to be turned on, and Immortals have more potency in that they have burst shots whereas Void has to shoot steadily to do its damage. Protoss identity wise their stuff naturally has more supply, but a Void ray really doesn't feel like it has more power or value than a 3 supply Liberator, or a Disruptor or Immortal even.
So, if Tempests would revert to 5 supply, maybe the Void can be buffed to 3 supply instead. That way you can mix in a few easier to help deal with mass Corruptors, and maybe rarely as an option vs Vikings/Libs/Lurkers.
I can't think of much other ways they can make Protoss slightly more supply efficient. It's either the Disruptor, Void, or Tempest. I'm leaning on the Void, it used to have 3 supply in WoL/HotS, so it wouldn't be too weird to go back. It isn't strong when massed. The only worry I have is that, even though being able to get 2 Corruptors for every Void mostly negates the Void being a "counter", when you're talking about a maxed out army then having just 5 Voids mixed in is enough to negate much of the Corruptor's ability to just roll over your Tempests/Carriers which is all you really need. And making it 3 supply making Zerg struggle even more in the lategame.
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I mean it is kind of cool that the star gate has a 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 supply unit. But tempest don't feel like 5 and voids don't feel like 4.
I think the phoenix vs. viking war is actually not that bad. In wol, hots days t would always be up a base and now it is the opposite, so I actually think the phoenix is pretty strong. It's all the other terran units, such as widow mines and crew that makes it hard for phoenix to poke.
The void ray cannot be an issue at 3 supply, storm, fungal, queens, parasitic bomb and terran all hard counter void rays.
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EPT
