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tnud
Sweden2233 Posts
On August 26 2011 03:55 beg wrote: hsm has an area of 2, while storm has an area of 1.5 . but would still suck against overlords... yet it's good against clumped up army (mass zergling, roach, baneling, muta, etc) HSM does 25 dmg in an area of 2..., 50 dmg in an area of 1... 100 dmg in an area of 0.6. ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/b/bf/Marauderafter.jpg) | ||
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The Iron Duke
United Kingdom41 Posts
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
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stipe145
764 Posts
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beg
991 Posts
On August 26 2011 03:57 tnud wrote: HSM does 25 dmg in an area of 2..., 50 dmg in an area of 1... 100 dmg in an area of 0.6. is this before or after the undocumented damage change? i do agree that HSM is probably useless at the moment... that's why i'm proposing changes like giving the raven a max energy upgrade. cause being able to cast 2 HSMs with one raven might actually be worthwhile. | ||
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Exstasy
United Kingdom393 Posts
On August 26 2011 03:59 CoR wrote: what is a "fast zealot" ? you cant charge away (this patch also make new move order remove charge) so you can put out fast zealot plz this unit not exist Zealots Base speed increases when Charge is researched. | ||
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Raid
United States398 Posts
On August 26 2011 02:43 Gemini_19 wrote: You mean when the game was completely different? Yeah when tanks did 70 damage, scvs were 60 hp, rax before depot, reaper speed, 30 second bunkers and all these cool things existed we tried seeker. There really no point in getting seeker unless your trying to be different because its almost always more worth it getting a ghost.. which can wipe out armies with nukes XD | ||
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Zirith
Canada403 Posts
Furthermore, 6 range, what other unit does terran have??? Seige tanks! you place them 2 range behind the ravens and now you give your enemies an option, either charge in and try to kill the tanks, or run away and lose slow units to seeker missile. Strategy is hard. Only an idiot would go, "oh we have to test the viability of ravens, now how can we fly over that pack of stalkers and seeker missile them with only ravens?? oh we can't we would have to waste 200-400 for 1 seeker", but it is only 400-800 for 3 seeker missiles, 3 missiles can kill ~40 marines, all of their casters, or an absurd amount of banelings/zerglings(as they charge into you) Another easy tactic is to just hide 3 ravens until you advance onto their creep with tanks and as they rush in you do what was described before, those lings either have to run away and continue to get shelled, or lose 20 lings in the immediate blast radius. | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
On August 26 2011 03:56 beg wrote: remember guys... TvP isn't the only matchup. if HSM would be made more viable in TvZ and TvT, that would be really cool already. you don't get storm in PvP either, right?! The comparison that should be made is, "Do you ever get increased observer speed?" | ||
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beg
991 Posts
On August 26 2011 04:10 tehemperorer wrote: The comparison that should be made is, "Do you ever get increased observer speed?" no... people are arguing that HSM isn't viable at all because protoss has feedback. ok. but there's more than 1 matchup. it's no problem if HSM is useless in TvP. it doesn't need to be good in all 3 matchups. thanks for your useful comment. | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
On August 26 2011 04:11 beg wrote: no... people are arguing that HSM isn't viable at all because protoss has feedback. ok. but there's more than 1 matchup. it's no problem if HSM is useless in TvP. it doesn't need to be good in all 3 matchups. thanks for your useful comment. It's useless in all 3 matchups. Fabled said TvZ it was joke, and in TvP/TvT the raven has better uses. Dunno what you want from the unit. | ||
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beg
991 Posts
On August 26 2011 04:13 tehemperorer wrote: It's useless in all 3 matchups. Fabled said TvZ it was joke, and in TvP/TvT the raven has better uses. Dunno what you want from the unit. i am discussing ways to actually make it useful  | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On August 26 2011 04:06 Zirith wrote: What you people fail to realize is how cost effective good control of caster units is, even watching the pros, they throw units away all the time, if they had ravens they would care more and avoid losing as many. Terrans basically always have an excess of gas late game, it really is not a problem. When analyzing something you have to look at it objectively, not provide your bias based on the any blaring cons that you happen to notice. Furthermore, 6 range, what other unit does terran have??? Seige tanks! you place them 2 range behind the ravens and now you give your enemies an option, either charge in and try to kill the tanks, or run away and lose slow units to seeker missile. Strategy is hard. Only an idiot would go, "oh we have to test the viability of ravens, now how can we fly over that pack of stalkers and seeker missile them with only ravens?? oh we can't we would have to waste 200-400 for 1 seeker", but it is only 400-800 for 3 seeker missiles, 3 missiles can kill ~40 marines, all of their casters, or an absurd amount of banelings/zerglings(as they charge into you) Another easy tactic is to just hide 3 ravens until you advance onto their creep with tanks and as they rush in you do what was described before, those lings either have to run away and continue to get shelled, or lose 20 lings in the immediate blast radius. You could theorycraft a case for every unit to be effective, even mommaship and carriers. This doesn't actually mean they are viable in a competitive scenario. Every unit and ability has a ROI, for seeker missile it happens to be pitiful. Expect this ability (and possibly the raven as an unit) to be completely reworked in HOTS. Its inevitable. | ||
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rastaban
United States2294 Posts
On August 26 2011 03:50 Bagi wrote: I'm just baffled why HSM has so many disadvantages compared to the other AOE spells (fungal/EMP/storm). - Needs to be researched (similar to storm in this regard) - Costs 125 energy instead of 75 - Has a range of 6 instead of 9 - Is a relatively slow-moving projectile that can be avoided with micro - Has a smaller AOE I understand that a spell that deals 100 damage + AOE cannot be instant, but the disadvantages are just too much. The only reason I can personally think of is that its not even meant to be on the level of the more commonly used spells listed above. Its probably more of a "fun" ability meant for team games and FFA's, since terran has plenty of options as it is. Also remember the caster is flying so it is much easier to use as it is harder to kill and does not need to circumnavigate the army as other AOE casters do. It also can harass over edges and easily circumnavigate natural defensive terrain. does that justify the cost, I still don't know but it will be interesting to see. | ||
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MrTortoise
1388 Posts
its more like a homing turd with a short timer. When it hits you you hate it but at the end of the day its no big deal. Edit and why change a unit this close to hots if you are going to rework it? | ||
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Xinder
United States2269 Posts
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On August 26 2011 04:23 Xinder wrote: What about more worker harass? Workers were listed under the need a head start option. they get clumped up and it would rock groups of workers. Fly a raven around their mineral line and toss a missile at the probes/drones/scvs. Watch as they blow up like being hit by a baneling bomb. Except that banelings do their full damage in a much bigger area. If every mineral node has 2 SCV's, you might kill 6 with one missile. Its probably better to toss 2-3 auto turrets instead. | ||
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Darneck
Sweden1394 Posts
On August 26 2011 04:23 Xinder wrote: What about more worker harass? Workers were listed under the need a head start option. they get clumped up and it would rock groups of workers. Fly a raven around their mineral line and toss a missile at the probes/drones/scvs. Watch as they blow up like being hit by a baneling bomb. Because terran obviously can't rip through workers fast enough with stimmed marines and BFH as it is already? Edit: Think I might have misread your post so nvm | ||
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Xinder
United States2269 Posts
On August 26 2011 04:24 Bagi wrote: Except that banelings do their full damage in a much bigger area. If every mineral node has 2 SCV's, you might kill 6 with one missile. Its probably better to toss 2-3 auto turrets instead. Yeah but they can run from the auto turrets as they're being damaged. It's not instant. The raven sneaks in as one red dot on the map and the missile i don't think shows up so it gets in range, tosses missile, gets out. If they don't catch it then they lose 6+ workers. I don't see a prob with that? All harass forms have their risks that they just could completely fail. I dunno. Do i want Terran to have another harass form? Fuck no. Doesn't mean it still wouldn't work. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On August 26 2011 03:57 tnud wrote: HSM does 25 dmg in an area of 2..., 50 dmg in an area of 1... 100 dmg in an area of 0.6. Really? I thought the splash was much better than that ... Thank goodness. | ||
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