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Unit Speed and 1.4 Seeker Missile - Page 7

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
August 25 2011 19:31 GMT
#121
On August 26 2011 04:10 tehemperorer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 03:56 beg wrote:
remember guys... TvP isn't the only matchup. if HSM would be made more viable in TvZ and TvT, that would be really cool already.


you don't get storm in PvP either, right?!

The comparison that should be made is, "Do you ever get increased observer speed?"

You don't?! Obs speed is awesome. Even seen MC get it. Obs spam+speed is so good in PvT, almost required when the ghost spam begins.
Demonhunter04
Profile Joined July 2011
1530 Posts
August 25 2011 19:32 GMT
#122
On August 26 2011 03:59 CoR wrote:
what is a "fast zealot" ? you cant charge away (this patch also make new move order remove charge) so you can put out fast zealot plz this unit not exist


Charge also increases the passive movement speed of zealots from 2.25 to 2.75.
"If you don't drop sweat today, you will drop tears tomorrow" - SlayerSMMA
s3rp
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany3192 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 19:32:58
August 25 2011 19:32 GMT
#123
On August 26 2011 04:21 rastaban wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 03:50 Bagi wrote:
I'm just baffled why HSM has so many disadvantages compared to the other AOE spells (fungal/EMP/storm).

- Needs to be researched (similar to storm in this regard)
- Costs 125 energy instead of 75
- Has a range of 6 instead of 9
- Is a relatively slow-moving projectile that can be avoided with micro
- Has a smaller AOE

I understand that a spell that deals 100 damage + AOE cannot be instant, but the disadvantages are just too much. The only reason I can personally think of is that its not even meant to be on the level of the more commonly used spells listed above. Its probably more of a "fun" ability meant for team games and FFA's, since terran has plenty of options as it is.


Also remember the caster is flying so it is much easier to use as it is harder to kill and does not need to circumnavigate the army as other AOE casters do. It also can harass over edges and easily circumnavigate natural defensive terrain.

does that justify the cost, I still don't know but it will be interesting to see.


Actually flying units are alot easier to snipe in battles , way easier to spot and focus them when in range. Most anti-air Units also will shoot Air-Units before ground Units automatically.
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
August 25 2011 19:32 GMT
#124
On August 26 2011 04:29 Xinder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 04:24 Bagi wrote:
On August 26 2011 04:23 Xinder wrote:
What about more worker harass? Workers were listed under the need a head start option. they get clumped up and it would rock groups of workers. Fly a raven around their mineral line and toss a missile at the probes/drones/scvs. Watch as they blow up like being hit by a baneling bomb.

Except that banelings do their full damage in a much bigger area.

If every mineral node has 2 SCV's, you might kill 6 with one missile. Its probably better to toss 2-3 auto turrets instead.


Yeah but they can run from the auto turrets as they're being damaged. It's not instant. The raven sneaks in as one red dot on the map and the missile i don't think shows up so it gets in range, tosses missile, gets out. If they don't catch it then they lose 6+ workers. I don't see a prob with that? All harass forms have their risks that they just could completely fail. I dunno. Do i want Terran to have another harass form? Fuck no. Doesn't mean it still wouldn't work.

With turrets you can prevent mining time though.

I understand your point, but with seeker missile does very concentrated damage and the AOE is too small for it to be effective as worker harass. I think it'll kill workers from 3 nodes at most. Storm/fungal are much more effective with their bigger AOE. As terran you're better off dropping marines/hellions and saving the HSM for the opponents army.
mprs
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2933 Posts
August 25 2011 19:33 GMT
#125
As a scientist, I hate replication of effort :S I posted this yeseterday:


On August 25 2011 13:16 mprs wrote:
The Raven Change:

[image loading]

The black dot means HSM was faster than the stock speed of the unit.

The double gray dot means HSM will be now faster (or the same) as this unit.

    So what changed? HSM will now be faster than:

  • Workers (Probes, SCVs, Drones, and MULEs)
  • Vikings
  • Banshees
  • Dark Templar
  • Archons

    HSM will now be the same speed as:

  • Ultralisks
  • Un-upgraded Zerglings
  • Un-upgraded Reapers
  • Corrupters
  • Stalkers


Note: The speeds of the "same speed" units are actually 2.9531, and the Raven buff is listed as 2.953. I'm not sure if this is a rounding problem or if they are meant to be faster by an incredibly small amount so that they could out run the HSM over a long period of time. It wouldn't make sense because if they were the same speed, the same effect would occur. I personally believe that they are both 2.9531, but obviously that could be subject to change.

I guess most notably, Seeker missles can really REALLY decimate worker lines if you don't know react very quickly and know which worker is being targeted. I guess this will make up for some of the lost worker destruction from the BFH nerf.

Being faster than vikings will be a huge deal in TvT, as you can ward off pesky vikings away from tanks and what not. Being faster than archons is pretty meaningless, since HSM radius is 2.0 and it will pretty much only hit one archon 99% of the time (correct me if I'm wrong). Ultralisks are in the same category of explanation. Zerglings, DTs, and Reapers are non-issue. HSM can now be used to ward off a group of stalkers now I guess, which could be some cool play. This can also apply to corrupters, but I have a hard time finding a reason for a Z to use corrupters vs T. Perhaps this will allow sky Terran to be viable and having an answer for mass corrupters?

To conclude, this change is going to have only significant repercussions in worker harass, and Vs. Viking and combat.

We talkin about PRACTICE
tehemperorer
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2183 Posts
August 25 2011 19:57 GMT
#126
On August 26 2011 04:33 mprs wrote:
As a scientist, I hate replication of effort :S I posted this yeseterday:

What's your take as a realist? ^^
Knowing is half the battle... the other half is lasers.
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
August 25 2011 20:09 GMT
#127
HSM still need lower energy cost, more damage and more range..
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
Zarahtra
Profile Joined May 2010
Iceland4053 Posts
August 25 2011 20:10 GMT
#128
Nerf the dmg to 50, buff the energy from 125 to 75 and increase the range from 6 to 8-9 and it will be viable. Don't get me wrong, it will probably see a lot more usage, most notably TvT, but with such short range its imo a very risky build/playstyle and I'd rather count on things I'm incontrol of rather than that my opponent doesn't counter me/plays badly.
Jonas :)
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States511 Posts
August 25 2011 20:12 GMT
#129
guys. guys. Instead of marine/tank you can do marine/raven =)

Ravens blow up mutalisks and can destroy globs of banelings/zerglings EZ
IMNotMvp
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)530 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 20:20:41
August 25 2011 20:18 GMT
#130
On August 26 2011 02:29 Bobster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 02:14 bLah. wrote:
Range 6 people... Range 6. You still lose a raven every time you shoot that missile.

I've got three words for you.

pee dee dee

lol...
s3rp
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany3192 Posts
August 25 2011 20:20 GMT
#131
On August 26 2011 05:12 Jonas wrote:
guys. guys. Instead of marine/tank you can do marine/raven =)

Ravens blow up mutalisks and can destroy globs of banelings/zerglings EZ


Have fun engaging on creep with that against speedbanes bye bye Marines .
Cosmos
Profile Joined March 2010
Belgium1077 Posts
August 25 2011 21:36 GMT
#132
Raven will never snipe infestor, infestor will fungal, or NP or jsut runa way and let anything else kill it :s
http://www.twitch.tv/becosmos
IntotheNorth
Profile Joined March 2011
Denmark116 Posts
August 25 2011 21:41 GMT
#133
costs too much energy, totally useless, ggnotksbye
Dommk
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia4865 Posts
August 25 2011 21:41 GMT
#134
Will be fun to see Seekers being used on Banelings as Zerg runs in now
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6566 Posts
August 25 2011 21:45 GMT
#135
This is only going to change late late late game. I mean whole map but 2 expansions are mined out and both players are using only casters because they can retain energy. It will make this late late late game composition MUCH more stronger. I fear that this will encourage more turtle play, but that is kind of silly. I don't think this will have a big affect on anything, tbh.
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
mprs
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2933 Posts
August 25 2011 21:50 GMT
#136
On August 26 2011 04:57 tehemperorer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 04:33 mprs wrote:
As a scientist, I hate replication of effort :S I posted this yeseterday:

What's your take as a realist? ^^


As a realist, I'm quite indifferent. <3
We talkin about PRACTICE
Like a Boss
Profile Joined January 2011
502 Posts
August 25 2011 21:51 GMT
#137
HSM wasn't used much simply because most units just out run it. With the speed upgrade people are going to need nice splitting to keep damage at minimum. Although this will just require even more skill and apm from Protoss and Zerg when Terran is already the strongest race.
Gamegene
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States8308 Posts
August 25 2011 21:52 GMT
#138
don't know if this warrants a change in the TvT metagame, but at the very least seeker missile will be more effective late game.

still... TOO MUCH ENERGY.
Throw on your favorite jacket and you're good to roll. Stroll through the trees and let your miseries go.
gustavohmp
Profile Joined May 2011
Brazil139 Posts
August 25 2011 22:02 GMT
#139
You know, it can be use to cover a tank line or something
When banes n lings are about to crash in the party you launch SMs all over the place and watch it as it melts before it reaches your stuff
inb4 "hurr it can be dodged, kill the raven, etc etc etc"
You people want it to be perfect and to require no skill whatsoever. Like, lauch 2 of this babys from the same raven at range 8 and call it imba later. There is no pleasing you guys.
JangBi will go the finals.
LAN-f34r
Profile Joined December 2010
New Zealand2099 Posts
August 25 2011 22:04 GMT
#140
On August 26 2011 05:20 s3rp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 05:12 Jonas wrote:
guys. guys. Instead of marine/tank you can do marine/raven =)

Ravens blow up mutalisks and can destroy globs of banelings/zerglings EZ


Have fun engaging on creep with that against speedbanes bye bye Marines .


Question: Why do you have ravens and they have creep? There can only be one...

Seriously, if you have great map awareness, this build is great vs banes (I added a few 'rauders with conc shell to help though ). Now they have to run full time (ie they can't circle around the HSM and attack again with the possibility of friendly fire).

It will be even better now that infestors cannot escape, reducing the need for ghosts (although due to bad range I think I still might need them).

And mutas were already lol against this build.
The only barrier to truth is the presumption that you already have it. It's through our pane (pain) we window (win though).
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