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On August 01 2011 16:43 Linkirvana wrote:
Well then krndandaman, I'll reply to your points individually.
"1) your only argument is that the term bonjwa is subjective.
that's very weak because no one here is denying that the term bonjwa is very subjective. however, since the term bonjwa came forth from savior and later boxer, iloveoov, nada, we now have a means of objectively comparing and evaluating who should be a bonjwa to a certain extent.
right now, you're arguing that bonjwa is no more than a mere common adjective such as "handsome" or "best" or "good" when that's certainly not the case. it's a very specific term meant for very specific people."
I disagree, the statistics show that Boxer was given the title because he is a "legend", not because of any objective comparisson to the other 3. I could for example consider Nestea's 0 games dropped GSL win pretty legendary.
"2) are you saying you feel that nestea's achievements are bonjwa worthy?
im sorry, but thats just ignorance."
Holy fuck are you missing the point. I'm clearly not saying that, I'm argueing for free use of the word Bonjwa without people like you going all anal about it. I am not here to give my own narrow-minded view on who is a bonjwa and who is not.
"3) please do bring the real stats. it doesn't matter because nestea's stats are miniscule compared to the bonjwas"
I was referring to the stats that do not involve Nestea, this isn't about him, I simply use him as an example sometimes since he's the best SC2 has to offer at the moment. What I ment to point out with that last sentence is that the stats show that you don't necesarrily have to have X wins to be "worthy" enough to be called a bonjwa. And that it's not as easy as simply comparing one's achievements to those of starcraft 1 bonjwas.
On a final note I feel that there's plenty of grey area to work with for anyone who feels that MC, Nestea, Jaedong, Flash or whoever the hell else is a bonjwa to publicly call them bonjwas.
Calling bullshit on that kind of feels like you're being the guy that points out that a compliment is not legit and that that 5 year old is not actually "really good at soccer"
In my eyes that's when you're straight up being just a dick.
And i have a right to ask you what your smoking if you going to lump zergbong, savior, flash, iron, oov, mvp and boxer together. There are standards and criterion.
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On August 01 2011 16:43 Linkirvana wrote:
I disagree, the statistics show that Boxer was given the title because he is a "legend", not because of any objective comparisson to the other 3. I could for example consider Nestea's 0 games dropped GSL win pretty legendary.
Boxer dominated, utterly and completely dominated, Broodwar for nearly a year and a half. He "only" won 3 titles because during the vast majority of his reign, the MSL didn't even exist -- he also won 2 WCGs which, back when, were arguably the top tournament as the Korean scene hadn't utterly distanced itself yet. Just, put it in perspective: Boxer dominated Broodwar for longer than SC2 has existed. If you're picking on Boxer as the "least" of the Bonjwas, then just compare that to Nestea. How long has Nestea been the undisputed best player? It can't have been more than the past handful of months. That's not even a fourth of how long Boxer was the undisputed the #1 player.
Holy fuck are you missing the point. I'm clearly not saying that, I'm argueing for free use of the word Bonjwa without people like you going all anal about it. I am not here to give my own narrow-minded view on who is a bonjwa and who is not.
I am the greatest thinker of all time. See, it's subjective, and you can't really prove me wrong, because when you go back in time to compare me to the true geniuses of all time I'll just tell you to stop being anal about it. Free use of a term in a vastly incorrect context is silly and bad.
I was referring to the stats that do not involve Nestea, this isn't about him, I simply use him as an example sometimes since he's the best SC2 has to offer at the moment. What I ment to point out with that last sentence is that the stats show that you don't necesarrily have to have X wins to be "worthy" enough to be called a bonjwa. And that it's not as easy as simply comparing one's achievements to those of starcraft 1 bonjwas.
You're most certainly right. The term Bonjwa widely applies to players with ridiculous winrates over long periods of times. The accomplishments and number of wins are a by product of that.
On a final note I feel that there's plenty of grey area to work with for anyone who feels that MC, Nestea, Jaedong, Flash or whoever the hell else is a bonjwa to publicly call them bonjwas.
No, there isn't. The only way you could start calling anyone from SC2 a bonjwa right now is if they were clearly the best player since release and still are. It's almost implicitly about the time that goes into being a dominant force. If you could become a bonjwa after just being the best for 4 months then there would be dozens of BW bonjwas instead of just 5 -- and hell, some people say only 4 because they don't think the term works for Flash, who has utterly blown away the past Bonjwa's accomplishments. The term is hard to live up to.
Calling bullshit on that kind of feels like you're being the guy that points out that a compliment is not legit and that that 5 year old is not actually "really good at soccer"
In my eyes that's when you're straight up being just a dick.
You're missing the forest for the trees, mate. It would be like saying "That 5 year old is clearly the greatest soccer player in the world, without dispute." It's not that it's a nice compliment, it's literally a title anointed to very accomplished and amazing players. Sure, it's "just" a compliment, but it's a ridiculous and inapplicable one for the situation, and it's a compliment that has a history behind it that people care about.
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I agree, I am the true bonjwa nobody else!
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On July 30 2011 19:18 JoeSchmoe wrote:Not this guy. He's serious. Spams the word 6 times in less than 15 minutes. Must be a record! Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 18:16 ShootingStars wrote:
losira is the real bonjwa here holding nestea's pushes Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 18:19 ShootingStars wrote:
DRG is the same as nestea BONJWAS FTW Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 18:27 ShootingStars wrote:
nestea is now the new bonjwa of sc2 Show nested quote +On July 30 2011 18:29 ShootingStars wrote:
nestea the zerg bonjwa... no one can stop him
we're looking for a mod brave enough, just be a hero and ip ban shootingstars for life
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On August 02 2011 06:03 stickymayhem wrote:
All words should be banned. We would then be forced to evolve telepathic communication methods.
Interprative dance ftw.
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On August 02 2011 01:56 holy_war wrote:
Haypro is #1 Bonjovi
I vote we say Bonjovi in place of Bonjwa, as a TL signature word.
Like Holy Check, you know.
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if we could get rid of the B word, the E word, and the M word
and let's bring back gosu, hasu, chobo, and imba
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On August 02 2011 08:03 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:
if we could get rid of the B word, the E word, and the M word
and let's bring back gosu, hasu, chobo, and imba
You want to promote the word imba? >_>;;
Have you READ the sc2 forums? Haha
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So my only question is: What do we call Destiny then?
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On August 02 2011 08:25 Emporio wrote:
So my only question is: What do we call Destiny then?
hasu
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Uruguay5195 Posts
the E word is quite annoying =\
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that word obviously holds a very deifferent meaning if you use it in a sc2 context or a bw context.
sc2 real fans, that want to make the game shine, should not hold onto the "broodwar traditions", but instead construct sc2 legacy on fresh bases.
Trying to apply the bw 12 years of history onto the 1 year old sc2 is just going to end up in arguments between the 2 comunitys
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Agreed, calling Nestea or other players the 'b' word is no where neat to the truth, not because he isn't amazing or anything, but rather just because the game hasn't been around long enough for there to be a bonjwa.
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There will never be another Wayne Gretzky. Mark my words.
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Bonjwa is a term that's just used for 4 people (Boxer, nada, oov, savior). Calling every other person that has a good streak for a few months "bonjwa" is like calling every NBA player that plays well for a while (wade, lebron, rose, etc) the "goat".
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On August 01 2011 19:30 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Boxer dominated, utterly and completely dominated, Broodwar for nearly a year and a half. He "only" won 3 titles because during the vast majority of his reign, the MSL didn't even exist -- he also won 2 WCGs which, back when, were arguably the top tournament as the Korean scene hadn't utterly distanced itself yet. Just, put it in perspective: Boxer dominated Broodwar for longer than SC2 has existed. If you're picking on Boxer as the "least" of the Bonjwas, then just compare that to Nestea. How long has Nestea been the undisputed best player? It can't have been more than the past handful of months. That's not even a fourth of how long Boxer was the undisputed the #1 player.
Fair enough. There's a clear difference between Boxer's SC1 achievements and Nestea's SC2.
I am the greatest thinker of all time. See, it's subjective, and you can't really prove me wrong, because when you go back in time to compare me to the true geniuses of all time I'll just tell you to stop being anal about it. Free use of a term in a vastly incorrect context is silly and bad.
I disagree. People use exaggerated compliments all the time. Yet Bonjwa seems to be the one where everybody gets anal about. I disagree with your analogy as well, this whole thing is about complimenting someone else, not yourself. If you were to call someone the greatest thinker of all time over say, not walking into that pile of shit, I would not go and point out why I think that person is not the greatest thinker of all time. Cause I'd be going anal about it wouldn't you agree?
No, there isn't. The only way you could start calling anyone from SC2 a bonjwa right now is if they were clearly the best player since release and still are. It's almost implicitly about the time that goes into being a dominant force. If you could become a bonjwa after just being the best for 4 months then there would be dozens of BW bonjwas instead of just 5 -- and hell, some people say only 4 because they don't think the term works for Flash, who has utterly blown away the past Bonjwa's accomplishments. The term is hard to live up to.
Again I must concede, fair enough. However I still feel that saying something like "amagad Losira bonjwa" should be perfectly fine.
You're missing the forest for the trees, mate. It would be like saying "That 5 year old is clearly the greatest soccer player in the world, without dispute." It's not that it's a nice compliment, it's literally a title anointed to very accomplished and amazing players. Sure, it's "just" a compliment, but it's a ridiculous and inapplicable one for the situation, and it's a compliment that has a history behind it that people care about.
Your analogy proves my point. Disagreeing with that is being an asshole. Everybody knows that it's an exaggerated compliment.
Pointing it out seems weird, very weird. Asking for these people to get as much as a ban over such a statement is even more weird.
If 1 of your friends called your other friend (Who happends to be in silver league) a bonjwa, for succesfully doing something silly as a 4gate rush, would you be that guy who sits there and explains exactly the standards for a bonjwa?
Clearly I am exaggerating in my arguments, because I understand it becomes less about being an asshole as people are more serious about their statement regarding "Person X is a bonjwa" and more about just being right. However considering the immense room for disagreement when it comes to the term Bonjwa I feel that triggering a barrage of anecdotal evidence by for example pointing out that "person X is not really a Bonjwa, only SaviOr was!" still makes you look like a bit of a douchebag because quite frankly, that person is not going to care.
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EPT
