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On June 22 2011 03:08 zawk9 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 02:57 TheSubtleArt wrote:I basically quit Brood War cause I couldn't play TvP lol. I'd literally beat more Protoss in BW offracing as Zerg than I would main racing as Terran, it was that bad >_<. Anyway, cheer up, focus on improving, watch pro reps, and use some ghosts : D. On June 22 2011 02:43 KawaiiRice wrote: Play ZvT against a friend and you will be QQ'ing just as hard about how bad zerg units are. 3-3 marines just stand there and laugh at your 35 hp zerglings and 1 tank shot explodes 200 supply of banelings. Just get over it and play to improve, you have a poisonous mindset that isn't helping you in the slightest bit. gl dewd. Listen to KR, he's basically a master of TvZ lol Anyone who complains about any matchup in SC2 should be forced to play TvP in Brood War. That should set them straight :p
tbh i feel TvP in BW is easier than TvZ in SC2 ^^ but thats probably just me
Lategame TvZ is hard as hell
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On June 22 2011 03:22 lyAsakura wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 03:08 zawk9 wrote:On June 22 2011 02:57 TheSubtleArt wrote:I basically quit Brood War cause I couldn't play TvP lol. I'd literally beat more Protoss in BW offracing as Zerg than I would main racing as Terran, it was that bad >_<. Anyway, cheer up, focus on improving, watch pro reps, and use some ghosts : D. On June 22 2011 02:43 KawaiiRice wrote: Play ZvT against a friend and you will be QQ'ing just as hard about how bad zerg units are. 3-3 marines just stand there and laugh at your 35 hp zerglings and 1 tank shot explodes 200 supply of banelings. Just get over it and play to improve, you have a poisonous mindset that isn't helping you in the slightest bit. gl dewd. Listen to KR, he's basically a master of TvZ lol Anyone who complains about any matchup in SC2 should be forced to play TvP in Brood War. That should set them straight :p TvP is cancer.. :z "Aaah I've finally got him n-" *6 carriers* ~_~
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On June 22 2011 04:44 TheSubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 03:22 lyAsakura wrote:On June 22 2011 03:08 zawk9 wrote:On June 22 2011 02:57 TheSubtleArt wrote:I basically quit Brood War cause I couldn't play TvP lol. I'd literally beat more Protoss in BW offracing as Zerg than I would main racing as Terran, it was that bad >_<. Anyway, cheer up, focus on improving, watch pro reps, and use some ghosts : D. On June 22 2011 02:43 KawaiiRice wrote: Play ZvT against a friend and you will be QQ'ing just as hard about how bad zerg units are. 3-3 marines just stand there and laugh at your 35 hp zerglings and 1 tank shot explodes 200 supply of banelings. Just get over it and play to improve, you have a poisonous mindset that isn't helping you in the slightest bit. gl dewd. Listen to KR, he's basically a master of TvZ lol Anyone who complains about any matchup in SC2 should be forced to play TvP in Brood War. That should set them straight :p TvP is cancer.. :z "Aaah I've finally got him n-" *6 carriers* ~_~ This is how I won all my offrace PvTs.
3base arbs -> ??????? i DUNNO what the f I'm doing -> 4-5 base put down like 4 stargates because my macro is bad
and then I'll win or lose depending on how bad my Terran opponent is.
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the solution of course is to play ZvT
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i got the same problem.... most of my zerg opponents go blind 3 queens 2 spine and i cant do enough damage with my helions, then he just get´s his 3rd, because he knows that i cant do more preassure without at least 3 tanks and mass marine/medivac and from then on i get rolled everytime :/
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On June 22 2011 05:13 MyLastSerenade wrote: i got the same problem.... most of my zerg opponents go blind 3 queens 2 spine and i cant do enough damage with my helions, then he just get´s his 3rd, because he knows that i cant do more preassure without at least 3 tanks and mass marine/medivac and from then on i get rolled everytime :/ well... if you have a walloff with 1rax 2 depot, it's most likely either a FE or a hellion build anyways.....and if they scout that you went 1rax -> gas, it's definitely (to a zerg's eyes) a hellion build. so no it isn't really "blind".
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I got the exact same problem as you. I know TvZ is balanced, but it feels impossible to beat lategame zerg. Hive + infestor (especially broodlord + infestor) is so strong and hard to beat. It would be nice if terran had a good tier 3 unit. Another problem against zerg is scouting. Is he droning? Is he making 30 lings? If you think he is droning, and you attack with 15 marines, and he has alot of zerglings, then you lose those and you are behind imo, since your next push is delayed.
I played only TvP in BW because I enjoyed how hard it was (D+ level), but it felt possible. TvZ feels alot more harder and alot more impossible.
Good luck with tvz. Play it alot, try to find some zerg practice partner and get your gamesense up. Gamesense (knowing when to attack the zerg, knowing when to expand, etc) is very important in TvZ (imo).
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TvZ is by far my most volatile matchup. I'm either winning every single game or losing every single game, there's no in between (I'm in diamond).
I do early reactor hellion harrass into a 3 tank push around the 10-11 minute mark. That push makes or breaks the game for me - if it doesn't do enough damage, I will lose most of the time. I don't often win with that push, but I need to force my opponent to invest a lot into killing it.
When broodlords are out, it's over. I need to have vikings out when broodlords are done and I often don't.
Drops are really effective. You don't have to do double drops, but a drop while you're attacking with your main force can do a lot of damage.
You definitely can't just sit back and macro the whole game. You'll get crushed.
Good luck!
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On June 22 2011 04:59 qdenser wrote: the solution of course is to play ZvT And realize the matchup is just as annoying from a Zerg perspective lol.
It's actualyl a good idea though, you'll learn what's difficult to deal with as Zerg, when to push out, where to drop, when to run hellions in vs when not to, how effective pushing while dropping is, etc, just by experiencing the pain yourself.
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On June 22 2011 04:48 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 04:44 TheSubtleArt wrote:On June 22 2011 03:22 lyAsakura wrote:On June 22 2011 03:08 zawk9 wrote:On June 22 2011 02:57 TheSubtleArt wrote:I basically quit Brood War cause I couldn't play TvP lol. I'd literally beat more Protoss in BW offracing as Zerg than I would main racing as Terran, it was that bad >_<. Anyway, cheer up, focus on improving, watch pro reps, and use some ghosts : D. On June 22 2011 02:43 KawaiiRice wrote: Play ZvT against a friend and you will be QQ'ing just as hard about how bad zerg units are. 3-3 marines just stand there and laugh at your 35 hp zerglings and 1 tank shot explodes 200 supply of banelings. Just get over it and play to improve, you have a poisonous mindset that isn't helping you in the slightest bit. gl dewd. Listen to KR, he's basically a master of TvZ lol Anyone who complains about any matchup in SC2 should be forced to play TvP in Brood War. That should set them straight :p TvP is cancer.. :z "Aaah I've finally got him n-" *6 carriers* ~_~ This is how I won all my offrace PvTs. 3base arbs -> ??????? i DUNNO what the f I'm doing -> 4-5 base put down like 4 stargates because my macro is bad and then I'll win or lose depending on how bad my Terran opponent is. Lol DT drops, recalls, carrier transitions, shuttle bombs, and reavers microed by koreans....so obnoxious >_<
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Snipe tech with drops over and over and over
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On June 22 2011 06:13 RmoteCntrld wrote: Snipe tech with drops over and over and over
worked for MMA? Its simple too, just fly the medivac through the muta swarm unscathed, then land next to the tech and kill it before they notice.......... lol easy right? xD
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This is it... I just can't improve my TvZ, it feels like if I don't have 200 apm with perfect double drops while slowpushing with tanks and splitting marines at the exact timing, I lose to a zerg who just masses lings banelings mutas and A-moves into me. I don't know if I should even continue playing SC2 if I can't enjoy TvZ... I've posted several replays into teamliquid but the answer is same: "You must have godlike multitasking and perfect micro and gamesense, terran noob". I'm not MMA, I'm not Flash, I'm just an ordinary gamer with limited skill... This is QQ post, yes, but I've the only times I can win zerg if they make some very stupid mistakes, and even then I get insults from them how my race is somehow extremely overpowered. Who wants to play like that..?
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On June 22 2011 06:30 OmniEulogy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 06:13 RmoteCntrld wrote: Snipe tech with drops over and over and over worked for MMA? Its simple too, just fly the medivac through the muta swarm unscathed, then land next to the tech and kill it before they notice.......... lol easy right? xD
mma has superhuman medivacs with speedupgrades. normal humans medivacs die to mutas.
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TvZ is basically pure execution at this point. Execution takes mass gaming. One thing you learn from watching korean tvz is if you aren't dropping you are wasting time. If your drop gets picked off by mutas, do double drops. If double drop doesn't work, use another marine task force to attack while double dropping. For an example, watch slayersdragon's stream. There are many games where his drop just keep dying but eventually he breaks through. It takes just one successful drop out of a dozen plus to turn the tide.
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TvZ as I see it ... is overall very balanced and execution and skill is a huge factor through the match.
It begins heavily terran favored where the terran in almost every aspect got the upper hand. We, the zerg, have learned to deal with it though. It did take awhile, it did require a few patches and a lot of zerg tears but any experienced zerg have learned to deal with the first 10 minutes of every matchup. We struggle but we survive. It is up to the terran to do the damage though. The stronger the zerg enters the midgame the harder it is for the terran. No excuses though, you have every oppertunity to wound the zerg.
As we enter the midgame I find it to be the most skillbased and fun matchup. Lots of multitasking is required from both sides and you are promptly rewarded for your horrasment whether that be mutas or dropships while at the same time errors can be critical. Again this apply to both the zerg and the terran. Skill, not race, dominates the midgame.
Lategame, if the zerg is in a powerfull position where they stop droning, stop teching and only replenish armies continualy and they are at least 1 base up on the terran, the game turns into the zergs favor. It's pretty tough to deal with but I think the terran had every opertunity to end the game or delay and prevent this scenario.
Instead of working on your lategame when it's pretty much checkmate, work on everything up to that point. Be more relentless in your horassment. Hurt the zerg. Dont let them get that position cause this is when the swarm is taking over!
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I see that many people have told you this same thing, but I'll reiterate: ZvT is insanely stressful for zerg players too, the entire way through the game seems like walking a frayed tightrope over a pool of lava as you have to know scouting patterns that don't get your overlords killed, timings for every stupid 2-rax 4-rax 7-rax thing that equally frustrated terrans will throw out, and be constantly worried about marine drops, banshees, blue flame hellions, and (less now) reapers, all the while having to greedily pump drones to stay on equal footing with an enemy who it feels is perfectly capable of playing a base down for a while, then it all comes down to the tank/marine/medivac/couple of thors push midgame that you have to control perfectly against or your entire army will explode in showers of gore in a couple seconds.
Basically my point is that terrans should go into the game with the mindset my mom always told me to have when dealing with animals: "Remember, they're just as scared of you as you are of them. Be confident and authoritative and you'll be fine".
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Done, today is the day I quit SC2 because of TvZ
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It is always the player and never the race/match up that decides winning and losing. Only thing someone can be frustrated at when losing is themselves. Not the map, not the match up, not the balancing, not the cheesing opponent, but themselves.
Here is something that helps ppl to get into the right mind set when playing sc2.
Fake arrogant is from insecurity, it looks something like this, "i'm so much better than X, if not for Y there is no way I will lose ever" Then hides behind this Ego and never improve on anything, because he thinks there is nothing should be needed to work on since he's the best.
Real arrogant looks like this "I'm so good, it doesn't matter what kinds of advantage you have i will own you with all the odds stack against me." And when someone with real arrogant loses, he will go back to the drawing board to make sure he doesn't lose the same way again and come back again the next day to insert his arrogance into his victims. He will let his pwnage do the talking.
usually the truly arrogant one are playing random and announce their race each game, and if you manage to take a game off him in one particular match up, he will re-match you with that match up in order to show you you can't even have a positive win ratio with one of his 9 match ups. In his mind it is not ok to even lose out on a single match up.
When someone with real arrogance meets someone spouting fake arrogant, they will challenge them to 1vs1 in the mirror match up with a one worker handicap, and proceed to try their hardest to win.
Now that is insufferable arrogance.
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On June 29 2011 09:28 LuckyFool wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2011 06:30 OmniEulogy wrote:On June 22 2011 06:13 RmoteCntrld wrote: Snipe tech with drops over and over and over worked for MMA? Its simple too, just fly the medivac through the muta swarm unscathed, then land next to the tech and kill it before they notice.......... lol easy right? xD mma has superhuman medivacs with speedupgrades. normal humans medivacs die to mutas.
I clicked on your blog looking for TvZ rage and surprise surprise it's the last thing. June 11th :D
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