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Banner by Existor
Hello Terrans,
Many of us want to go mech. More so with the impending release of HotS, giving us even more options to mech with the new battle hellion and widow mine. There are a few reasons why you may want to mech. Whether it be because you don't have the APM or marine micro to go bio, or that your positional sense is particularly excellent. But, until very recently, people have only really gone mech in TvT. And even that died out at the start of 2012, replaced by ol' reliable, marine tank. In TvZ, it was pretty rare to see, until the August of this year when Mvp (of course it would be him), introduced the fast double armory variation of mech. This is mostly irrelevant however, as HotS is a new game. People are coming up with insane and wonderful strategies, that manage to make up for some of the weaknesses of mech by virtue of how unorthodox they were. I feel this needs to be documented, so it can be easily found. Anyway, the point of this slightly rambling introduction was, if you wish to mech, this is the number 1 place to find discussion, build orders, replays and VODs.
First of all however, I need your help.It needs to be our mission statement to keep this up to date, and reliable with sources. Are you friend with a pretty decent GM player who you know mechs? Ask him for a replay pack, or maybe even a guide! Did you watch some amazing game where you saw some very interesting openings into mech? Link it here! However, if you do link a singular replay or VOD, then please, please make sure that it is a VOD which has something unique in it. For example, if you find a completely new build, or maybe you find a VOD of something standard, but the Terran's opponent has done something that forces you to react differently and change the build. Here is a suggestion on how you set out a submission:
+ Show Spoiler [Guides] +
+ Show Spoiler [Streams] +
+ Show Spoiler [VODs] +
+ Show Spoiler [Replays] +
+ Show Spoiler [Miscellaneous Information] +
Thanks,
Kollin
Porishan
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I want to point out I only recently started playing and watching HotS (literally today), so it will be a while before the VODs and Stream section gets filled out if it is mainly me actually contributing stuff ^^
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Ok, cool, you can add following...
Here are players I know that regularly play mech at gm/m level, definitely go check them if you want to learn how to mech in HotS:
Supernova- sick 2base TvP mech push, often mechs in TvT, TvZ
Beastyqt - He is playing mech TvP (there are some cool Vods on his stream) often, TvT mostly, rarely TvZ
avilo - Always mechs TvT, TvZ, never TvP (facepalm), hope he can overcome his issues in TvP
Also, check out Strelok, Trimaster, ForGG (recently started streaming), they also play mech often...
If anyone is interested, I'm willing to start discussion on any topic regarding mech in all matchups as I've been playing and watching a lot of mech games through whole beta..
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Thanks! Good to see other people are interested in mech, I hope we can get HTOMario in here giving people advice as he is probably the best player who regularly posts in mech threads (avilo and TheDwf occasionally posted in the WOL thread though).
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Mario is recently playing less, because is kinda burn out on Terran playing mech, but I'm sure he is going to be back soon..
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OK thanks. Would you mind linking me Supernova's stream as I can't find it for the life of me :/
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On February 02 2013 03:36 Everlong wrote:
Ok, cool, you can add following...
Here are players I know that regularly play mech at gm/m level, definitely go check them if you want to learn how to mech in HotS:
Supernova- sick 2base TvP mech push, often mechs in TvT, TvZ
Beastyqt - He is playing mech TvP (there are some cool Vods on his stream) often, TvT mostly, rarely TvZ
avilo - Always mechs TvT, TvZ, never TvP (facepalm), hope he can overcome his issues in TvP
Also, check out Strelok, Trimaster, ForGG (recently started streaming), they also play mech often...
If anyone is interested, I'm willing to start discussion on any topic regarding mech in all matchups as I've been playing and watching a lot of mech games through whole beta..
For avilo, you really shouldn't "facepalm" at the lack of TvP mech. There are some really notable clips and legitimate complaints he's had with TvP mech. Mech is far from the amazing "goto" strat many BW enthusiasts and non-terrans claim it is.
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On February 02 2013 04:20 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 03:36 Everlong wrote:
Ok, cool, you can add following...
Here are players I know that regularly play mech at gm/m level, definitely go check them if you want to learn how to mech in HotS:
Supernova- sick 2base TvP mech push, often mechs in TvT, TvZ
Beastyqt - He is playing mech TvP (there are some cool Vods on his stream) often, TvT mostly, rarely TvZ
avilo - Always mechs TvT, TvZ, never TvP (facepalm), hope he can overcome his issues in TvP
Also, check out Strelok, Trimaster, ForGG (recently started streaming), they also play mech often...
If anyone is interested, I'm willing to start discussion on any topic regarding mech in all matchups as I've been playing and watching a lot of mech games through whole beta.. For avilo, you really shouldn't "facepalm" at the lack of TvP mech. There are some really notable clips and legitimate complaints he's had with TvP mech. Mech is far from the amazing "goto" strat many BW enthusiasts and non-terrans claim it is.
I had another one of those mech TvP games yesterday. Killed about 50 probes, had a "stronger" army than Protoss, 20 tanks pre-sieged with battle hellions in front.
Protoss opened 1 base blink stalker all-in, did zero damage. Went into DTS afterwards, did minimal damage. Then he 1A's immortal's, archons, and chargelots into 20 pre-sieged tanks and he ended up winning the game.
Mech TvP is terrible. It makes you wanna punch kittens, and that is not fun!
TvT/TvZ it can be good though.
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Any replay packs to share with us?
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I can add a BO for TvP. I "discovered" this one trying lot of things and trying to stop almost any all-in and cheese P can use in the early game. My surprise was that Dragon is using a similar one,so it is working well.
12 rax
Ones the RAX finishes send the SCV to socut enemy and keep him near the P base to send him back at 5:00 to see if he expands.
13 gas
15 OC
2 marines
16 2nd depot (both depots are near the mineral line.Dont like to wall vs P because of the stalker/zealot/MScore poking)
Factory with the first 100 gas
2nd gas as soon as possible after factory
bunker(loaded with the 2 marines)
Reactor on Rax with next 50 gas and Lab on Factory to be able to produce Siege tanks as soon as possible
Supply depot at 19-20 supply
Ebay at 6:00 mins and Turret in mineral line the moment the ebay is ready
Send ther 3-4 marines to prevent proxy Oracles(if they come with two of them we can easy lose 20 workers)
CC when possible
This is the opening.The follow depends of what are we scouting.If there are only gate units and no expand go make some bunkers and prepare for allin.
Starport/s will make you build 2-3 starports and 1-2 factories to defend early Tempest/Void Ray. I ve tried many combos vs P air and the best is Viking+RAven.Thors are bad because of the Tempest Range and Carriers make them shoot only the Interceptors.PDD form Ravens and focus fire with Vikings kill everything P got in the air.
Gate+Robo units= Chargelots/Blinkstalkers/HTs/Archons+ Collosi or Immortals.We need at least 2 rax+lab to make ghosts for EMPs.Without this our Siege lines are useless.If you go for heavy tank composition you need 7-8 ghosts,15-20 Hellbats and 3-4 Medivacs.If P switch to air,then we go to the option I mentioned before.
The Upgrades from the Armory are expensive and we may got them after 10 mins.Our 3rd can be pretty late(13-15 mins) but we can do well harassin the P with BFH drops or Hellbat drops.I preffer the BFH because of the mobility and because any good player will pull his Probes and Hellbats will die for nothing.
Our 3rd must be wll protected by at least one PF,turret rings and one Sensor tower in each corner of our main and natural/3rd to prevent Warp Prisms.
Once we reach the 16-18 mins we must think to take our 4th and maybe 5th both PF with turrets and SensorTowers and make more Starports/Factories and OCs.20 mins is the moment to sacrifice some SCVs and gain more Army supply,because we cant move as a ball and must siege to useour force.Try not to stop harassing using hellion/hellbat drops.Actually 8 hellbats can kill a Nexus pretty quick and never ever forget to SCAN the P army composition and their place on the map to be prepared always.
I usually got 5-8 Factories and 3-5 Starports.The OCs are 7-8 as well.First to upgrade is the +1 armor,then +1 attack and finaly the AIR +1 attack,but this will substitute the +1 ground if we see the enemy going early air.The Hi-trac on the ebay is as well a good upgrade to make,so our turrets and PFs can shoot further.
Hope this help everyone trying mech in TvP with tanks as core units.
http://drop.sc/301277
http://drop.sc/301278
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If you make that into a proper guide and post it as a thread I'll link in the guides section ^^
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On February 02 2013 04:48 kollin wrote:
If you make that into a proper guide and post it as a thread I'll link in the guides section ^^
Sorry,but I have no idea how to do this.Its the first time I do something like this.If you want to modify it all and put it in a thread,feel free to do whatever you wish
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Maybe in the future, but at the moment I just don't have the time :/
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On February 02 2013 04:39 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 04:20 aksfjh wrote:On February 02 2013 03:36 Everlong wrote:
Ok, cool, you can add following...
Here are players I know that regularly play mech at gm/m level, definitely go check them if you want to learn how to mech in HotS:
Supernova- sick 2base TvP mech push, often mechs in TvT, TvZ
Beastyqt - He is playing mech TvP (there are some cool Vods on his stream) often, TvT mostly, rarely TvZ
avilo - Always mechs TvT, TvZ, never TvP (facepalm), hope he can overcome his issues in TvP
Also, check out Strelok, Trimaster, ForGG (recently started streaming), they also play mech often...
If anyone is interested, I'm willing to start discussion on any topic regarding mech in all matchups as I've been playing and watching a lot of mech games through whole beta.. For avilo, you really shouldn't "facepalm" at the lack of TvP mech. There are some really notable clips and legitimate complaints he's had with TvP mech. Mech is far from the amazing "goto" strat many BW enthusiasts and non-terrans claim it is. I had another one of those mech TvP games yesterday. Killed about 50 probes, had a "stronger" army than Protoss, 20 tanks pre-sieged with battle hellions in front. Protoss opened 1 base blink stalker all-in, did zero damage. Went into DTS afterwards, did minimal damage. Then he 1A's immortal's, archons, and chargelots into 20 pre-sieged tanks and he ended up winning the game. Mech TvP is terrible. It makes you wanna punch kittens, and that is not fun! TvT/TvZ it can be good though.
I respect you and your opinions (which quite a few happend to be spot on - Raven's HSM energy for example) and I've been watching your stream and rooting for you like from day 1.
But, I truly believe you have some kind of wrong attitude in TvP currently.
In TvZ, you are more than fine now. You have solid builds to rely on, timings figured out for necessarry tech switches (Ravens), you can rely on your macro and micro to handle Vipers (which I believe are causing more headaches than Tempests). You got it all. Same goes for TvT, which is currently messy, because of Hellbat drops and everyone experimenting with mech builds, etc...
But in TvP, man... I don't know. I think you are just not willing to let the Tank have "support" role. I think there is some stupid thing you are missing. I see very good players doing well with mech in TvP and no, it's not just Dragon beating some random guys that have no idea how to abuse mech. I saw Supernova winning with very strong 2base timings (against Hasu, multiple times, once he tried Tempests, than HT's, pure Zealot/Immortal/Archon, he really knew what to do) to prevent heavy air, I've seen Beastyqt win insane 1h TvP (against Macsed I think) with all tech paths unlocked and I've seen many more games like that. That really only tells you one thing and that is, mech is just about to get this "viable" label.
And please, leave this argument "no tank no mech" have a rest once...
So yeah, mech in TvP is not necessarily stright up broken, but hell, it's definitely more viable than in WoL. I've been meching, watching guys meching, watching you meching for almost 2 years in WoL and let me say that I know, what I'm talking about, when I say that mech is in better shape in HotS.
You might have this Carrier/Tempest/HT composition, which is unbeatable, similarily to Broodlord/Corruptor in WoL, but for me (and for many people), this is not a reason to not try to mech in TvP. All races have issues with skytoss currently, I'm pretty sure it's going to get nerfed sooner or later. There are possibly more things that needs to be figured out (proxy Oracle), but I can't believe that YOU are not trying everything you are able to come up with. I think you are just broken still from WoL and you lost your energy on experimenting more in HotS, which really is pitty.
I challange you - try it, do it... If you lose, analyse your game, see how you can adapt, change your build, scout more, just try more and don't lose to the same thing again. It's just mind blowing that you are not willing to give it another shot while other people have good success with mech TvP.
Let the force be with you. :-)
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I agree with him on the no tank no mech. Building 10 thors and no tanks, quite frankly, isn't mech. It's big beefy slow bio.
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On February 02 2013 05:44 kollin wrote:
I agree with him on the no tank no mech. Building 10 thors and no tanks, quite frankly, isn't mech. It's big beefy slow bio.
I know what you mean, but for me, TvP where you don't research stim is still an improvement from WoL. I see people want this possition tank-based play, I want it too, but that is hard in SC2 and chances are low it's going to change. Still people are doing it and I see them winning..
edit:
http://cs.twitch.tv/beastyqt/b/361902299
watch this from 3:45, tanks everywhere, BCs, nukes, Tempests, all this shit.. I know this map is mech friendly, but come on...
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That's a good point you make and I do agree with you there. I just want to see strong siege tanks 
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On February 02 2013 04:39 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2013 04:20 aksfjh wrote:On February 02 2013 03:36 Everlong wrote:
Ok, cool, you can add following...
Here are players I know that regularly play mech at gm/m level, definitely go check them if you want to learn how to mech in HotS:
Supernova- sick 2base TvP mech push, often mechs in TvT, TvZ
Beastyqt - He is playing mech TvP (there are some cool Vods on his stream) often, TvT mostly, rarely TvZ
avilo - Always mechs TvT, TvZ, never TvP (facepalm), hope he can overcome his issues in TvP
Also, check out Strelok, Trimaster, ForGG (recently started streaming), they also play mech often...
If anyone is interested, I'm willing to start discussion on any topic regarding mech in all matchups as I've been playing and watching a lot of mech games through whole beta.. For avilo, you really shouldn't "facepalm" at the lack of TvP mech. There are some really notable clips and legitimate complaints he's had with TvP mech. Mech is far from the amazing "goto" strat many BW enthusiasts and non-terrans claim it is. I had another one of those mech TvP games yesterday. Killed about 50 probes, had a "stronger" army than Protoss, 20 tanks pre-sieged with battle hellions in front. Protoss opened 1 base blink stalker all-in, did zero damage. Went into DTS afterwards, did minimal damage. Then he 1A's immortal's, archons, and chargelots into 20 pre-sieged tanks and he ended up winning the game. Mech TvP is terrible. It makes you wanna punch kittens, and that is not fun! TvT/TvZ it can be good though.
That seems to be a common story among those of us that try mech TvP at any level. I'm not sure what it'll take to dispel the myth that mech TvP is actually viable against players on your own skill level. We get a few notable players mech against a player that should rarely or never beat them or do some sort of high risk strat, and suddenly there are 5000 new "believers" in mech.
It kinda reminds me of a few months back when Terran was already struggling against Zerg, but MVP goes and stomps all over a foreigner tournament of mostly bad Zergs. Suddenly the community uses it as an example of "everything is fine!"
More on topic though, what's the build order for that hellbat/marauder push against Zerg?
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Well, a little general advice from me on the general state of mech in Hots (especially vP), and on the new units from other races vMech
-Viper : Nice unit adding some new elements in the vZ MU. The cloud size is a bit big imo, but fine unit.
-Swarm hosts : Really annoying, forces tons of tanks, but not a that big threat
-Oracles : The unit that is killing my soul these days. The problem is that, even when you know they're coming and have the right defenses ready, they can still get like 15 scv in 5 seconds >.<
-Tempests : a bit too strong, but manageable. Ravens hard-counters them, and Emp + Yamato OS them. They're also terrible vs vikings, but they're too fast/maniable imo, kite too well
-Hellbats : Kinda op in terms of workers killing, fine in direct battles
-Mine : a funny defensive tool, but besides that..
TvT : Right now, the matchup is all about retarded hellbat drop, the mid/lategame is the same as in WoL
TvZ : In the midgame, roach/hydra is REALLY powerful, and swarm-hosts contains are deadly if you don't get ready by making tons of tanks. Lategame is easier with new infestor, hellbat/thor and new Hsm (<3).
Basically TvZ is using the same composition as before, the main change is that midgame is a bit harder due to better Z compositions and lategame is easier with terrans modifications
TvP :
Early game is the big problem right now, because of ONE FUCKING UNIT : the oracle. You have to get specific stuff to counter it, and even if you get it, you can loose tons of scv... So for the moment i'm testing some variations of CC + 111 with differents timings but basically oracles is the big problem right now , and it's true for bio too in fact --'
Midgame is basically the same, except you get hellbats which are SUPER good at taking damage and clearing zealots
Lategame (or figthing air in general, it's basically the same), you basically need to get whatever you want on ground (ghosts/tank/thors/hellbat in whatever number you want), vikings (mandatory to fight tempests), ravens (deny tempests, HSM VR and carriers) and BCs (Yamato tempests and carriers)
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I still find Thors and BC useless in TvP.Thors are outrangesd by tempest and the BCs are slow and sioll vulnerable to Feedback,stalkers and the Tempets with their bonus damage.Open with Hellbat vs P is pretty good,but you must prepare for counter and expand later.
The Oracle...Real Issue here.He comes at 7 mins I found and you need at least one turret and 4 marines.He must be focused on SCVs,because if not,just try to kill the turret.Still a lot to invest to stop this harass,but P as well take big risk building it.150 150 for the Starport and the oracle cost is pretty much,so we can invest some resourses to stop it.I think its fine,but still too deadly.
The counter to air toss is TON of vikings+ravens.PDD counters so good the Tempest.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZycXoxB.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-123068-1294716943.jpg)
