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[G] TvP - Scouting

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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1 2 Next All
ImVirus
Profile Joined June 2012
Sweden25 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-27 10:01:26
May 04 2013 18:59 GMT
#1
Hey guys! My name is Gabriel a.k.a Sandshrew. I'm a 15y/o high master swedish terran player on EU. And I'm currently playing for EchO Gaming. So today I'm going to be talking about how to scout in TvP. This is a huge issue that many people are having since they don't know what to scout, and how to scout it.

So down below I have the different scenarios you can be put in when reaper scouting or SCV scouting. I would suggest going for a Reaper FE since there are so many possibilities for protoss player these days. I suggest watching Day[9]'s daily on DeMusliM's TvP build here:
http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-583-demuslim-tvp/

Or my write-up of the build here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mPXaarHqcnzsdL3voI4RniDghU_tB-ynCgy0Oo1k_O8

So let's get started with the different scenarios!

If the protoss has...

1 gas (3 workers in it): + Show Spoiler +
Gateway expo (expansion will be started around 3:50-4:10, will vary depending on if toss chronos units). If there is ALOT of energy left on the nexus, be prepared for warpgate aggression. But if he chronos the nexus (has low energy) it will probably be eco play. It's standard to chrono the gateway to get zealot/stalker out. And one chrono on the cybernetics core is also pretty standard. So don't get intimidated by that! If the protoss doesn’t have his nexus down at 3:50-4:10, confirm that he expo’d at 4:50-5:10 with an SCV or reaper. If he doesn't, it will either be a 4 gate at the front, but it's always possible for the protoss to go for a 4 gate drop! If it's a 4 gate drop the robo will come down at around 4:30 usually. And very often proxied! So right after you see that he has no expo by 5:00, check proxy locations (the pylon usually comes down around 4min), and if you see a robo just build two bunkers at the front and a bunker or two in your main = ez hold

Beware though. After they expand, there is still a possibility of them going for aggression (2 base 4 gate aggression for example). So if you open reaper, scout for proxy pylons and/or go into his main and check his gateway count. Standard right now is 1 gate expo into 1 gate robo. So if you scout that, it's completely standard. If you scout any tech patterns after expanding it's probably okay. But if you scout a Twilight Council, beware of DT drops of 2 base!


2 gas (2 workers in each): + Show Spoiler +
Probably a mothership core expo. This is very, very common. But beware of them adding 2 workers on the gases when you leave so they'll have 3 on each. As always, confirm that he expo’d at around 5:30-5:40 incase he put 3 guys in each gas after you left! Also, a standard mothership core timing is 4:15min~. That's around the same time as the stalker pops The core also usually starts building before the stalker.

Same applies here as in 1 gas expo, beware of any gateway aggression after expo, or DT drops! Scout it with a reaper incase you opened with one Otherwise scan around 6min. Gateway aggression after this kind of expo with double gas is very, very rare though! So I wouldn't really worry about it


2 gas (3 workers in each) w/ fast mothership core: + Show Spoiler +
This is most likely a blink stalker all in! The other option is for them to go into sentry expo. If you suspect blink stalker all in, then build bunkers at edges of your base, and lift your nat into your main if you want to be extra safe! If you open reaper expo, should go back and scout the protoss natural at around 5:30 to confirm an expo. If there isn’t any, it will be a blink stalker all in. You can also check his natural with an SCV.


2 gas (3 workers in each) w/ delayed mothership core: + Show Spoiler +
This is a very heavy tech build. This can indicate DT drop, Proxy robo all in or Stargate play. Scout around with a reaper, marine or scv to find proxy tech! If he saves up alot of chrono, then it's probably not a DT drop. This is due to that the dark shrine can't be chrono boosted! And if he decides to use chrono for a DT drop, it's for the robo. I've never seen it used on the gates in this instance. This doesn’t 100% mean it’s an all in, just because it’s possible to expo behind a proxy oracle for example.


Counting pylons: + Show Spoiler +
Another really important thing to do is to count pylons inside the protoss base. When he starts his stalker his 3rd pylon should be on the way. If it's not inside his base, it's probably proxied. When the stalker is finished the 3rd pylon needs to be DONE inside his base!


If no expo at 5:30, it's most likely an all-in!

Thank you for reading my guide! I did it for you guys, so hopefully you'll learn something ^^

DISCLAIMER: Protoss players MIGHT mindgame you into thinking they're going one build, but in reality they're doing something completely else. Beware of that! Keep scouting

People that contributed to this guide:
vhapter [TL]
Axolotl777 [Reddit]

Cheers!

- EchO.Sandshrew

If you have any questions you can contact me at Sandshrew.139 @ EU

My twitter
My stream
My team's twitter

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vhapter
Profile Joined May 2010
Brazil677 Posts
May 04 2013 19:09 GMT
#2
A warp prism 4-gate doesn't require double gas by the way. The only difference is you generally chrono wg 3 times instead of 4 and make a robo at about 4:30 at the terran's third or somewhere close. A proxy pylon will typically be built at about 4 minutes with this strategy.
To live is to fight, to fight is to live!
ultraritmo
Profile Joined January 2012
France26 Posts
May 04 2013 19:12 GMT
#3
Nice guide, basic things but always useful. Thanks !
ImVirus
Profile Joined June 2012
Sweden25 Posts
May 04 2013 19:12 GMT
#4
On May 05 2013 04:09 vhapter wrote:
A warp prism 4-gate doesn't require double gas by the way. The only difference is you generally chrono wg 3 times instead of 4 and make a robo at about 4:30 at the terran's third or somewhere close. A proxy pylon will typically be built at about 4 minutes with this strategy.


Oh ok cool thanks. I didn't know that actually. I'll put it in the guide! Thanks for contributing
boredrex
Profile Joined November 2010
United States137 Posts
May 05 2013 12:42 GMT
#5
This is excellent. thank you
awakenx
Profile Joined May 2011
United States341 Posts
May 05 2013 16:49 GMT
#6
great, now i can actually understand what my reaper sees!
WorstMicroNA
MHT
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1026 Posts
May 05 2013 17:04 GMT
#7
Great now i have a reason to scout!
ImVirus
Profile Joined June 2012
Sweden25 Posts
May 05 2013 17:59 GMT
#8
On May 06 2013 02:04 MHT wrote:
Great now i have a reason to scout!


That's always good! xd
CursedFeanor
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada539 Posts
May 05 2013 19:10 GMT
#9
nice! thanks for the tips, it'll be useful
Zarahtra
Profile Joined May 2010
Iceland4053 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-05 19:30:57
May 05 2013 19:27 GMT
#10
Can't a delayed core be blink stalker allin too? I'm pretty sure ive seen it on Demu's stream when the core basically just comes there in time for vision and possibly 1 slow-thingie. Think it was Nony that did it.
stoppersur
Profile Joined April 2013
29 Posts
May 07 2013 08:16 GMT
#11
May be a dumb question, what is a fast/delay MSC?

What should be the standard timing for it to be out?
Fencar
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States2694 Posts
May 07 2013 08:21 GMT
#12
I think that you accidently put smiles into "2 gas (2 workers in each)."
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Pikachu.
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden7 Posts
May 07 2013 08:42 GMT
#13
Nice guide! And I like your new name // Your m8 Piiika!
Why is it so dark in here?
ImVirus
Profile Joined June 2012
Sweden25 Posts
May 07 2013 13:13 GMT
#14
On May 07 2013 17:21 Dark.EX wrote:
I think that you accidently put smiles into "2 gas (2 workers in each)."


Nah, I'm just a happy kid :D
ImVirus
Profile Joined June 2012
Sweden25 Posts
May 07 2013 13:14 GMT
#15
On May 07 2013 17:42 Pikachu. wrote:
Nice guide! And I like your new name // Your m8 Piiika!


<3 I like your name too ;3
ImVirus
Profile Joined June 2012
Sweden25 Posts
May 07 2013 13:15 GMT
#16
On May 07 2013 17:16 stoppersur wrote:
May be a dumb question, what is a fast/delay MSC?

What should be the standard timing for it to be out?


A fast MSC is when they start it right after the cyber finishes. It will finish around 4:20~
ImVirus
Profile Joined June 2012
Sweden25 Posts
May 07 2013 13:16 GMT
#17
On May 06 2013 04:27 Zarahtra wrote:
Can't a delayed core be blink stalker allin too? I'm pretty sure ive seen it on Demu's stream when the core basically just comes there in time for vision and possibly 1 slow-thingie. Think it was Nony that did it.


That was probably mindgames. You really want that 2nd Time Warp. But ofc, delayed core indicates tech, and blink is also a tech :D But as I said, it's very uncommon to go blink all in of a delayed MSC. But as always, there are some people that do it other ways ^^
Fencar
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States2694 Posts
May 08 2013 00:15 GMT
#18
On May 07 2013 22:13 ImVirus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 07 2013 17:21 Dark.EX wrote:
I think that you accidently put smiles into "2 gas (2 workers in each)."


Nah, I'm just a happy kid :D

Oh, okay.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Mozq
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden6 Posts
May 13 2013 18:50 GMT
#19
Very nice info, thanks!
HuK vs Idra, dosn't get much more entertaining.
sage_francis
Profile Joined December 2006
France1823 Posts
May 13 2013 20:03 GMT
#20
Good guide thx bro.
Toos bad toss has so many openings including allins, 2 bases all in and macro play, when terran has only 1 or 2 and macro play only...
You have to scout AND defend perfectly, because among the 10ish allins protoss can do, some of them are very difficult to hold, even if you know its coming...
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