EPT[G] TvP - Scouting - Page 2
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SeVeN46mX
United States1 Post
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BaaL`
297 Posts
On May 07 2013 22:15 ImVirus wrote: A fast MSC is when they start it right after the cyber finishes. It will finish around 4:20~ Don't forget you can tell if a MSC is building from the nexus animation. You should always be able to scout long enough to see if he starts it right after the core (both with reaper or scv). | ||
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sambo400
United States378 Posts
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Thor.Rush
Sweden702 Posts
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Zilong67
France12 Posts
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
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Sissors
1395 Posts
On July 17 2013 16:22 Dark.EX wrote: The metagame has changed as far as gas timings are concerned. Protoss will always be going 2 gas geysers in TvP now, so you can't base anything off of that. Everything else is somewhat correct, I think? I still see plenty of 1 geyser openings. Problem is that still a quite wide range of options after that. | ||
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
On July 17 2013 23:46 Sissors wrote: I still see plenty of 1 geyser openings. Problem is that still a quite wide range of options after that. I haven't seen any at the pro level or in my own TvP's. Odd. | ||
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rikter
United States352 Posts
Toss opens GW, Cyber followed by Twilight and 2 more gateways. I scan him as his other gateways are popping and see the twilight researching, with no expansion down. Blink all-in right? So I throw down some bunkers in my base on the high ground, I get two tanks, and get ready. The attack doesn't come, and new scouting reveals no nexus, 6 gates plus a DT shrine. So now its time to throw down a few turrets. STILL no attack at the 12 minute mark, and now his composition reveals that he has stopped stalkers and has a ton of zealots, so its going to be zealot archon, right? Time to get the ghost academy down and some hellbats... The end result was that he ended up with basically a pure gateway force while my tech was all over the damn place, with my mining and build disrupted. Not sure what I really should have done here, since a lot of my problems were a direct result of my scouting... had I simply gone ahead with my original build I would have smashed him, but when you spot a researching twilight at 5 minutes I don't really see how you can do anything other than gear up to defend the high ground, and when I see all those zealots and no DT harass I kind of have to assume he researched charge (which is what he was actually researching when I scanned) and is using the DT shrine to pump archones. How would you play in this situation? | ||
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On July 18 2013 01:16 rikter wrote: Heres a scouting question for you from a game last night: Toss opens GW, Cyber followed by Twilight and 2 more gateways. I scan him as his other gateways are popping and see the twilight researching, with no expansion down. Blink all-in right? So I throw down some bunkers in my base on the high ground, I get two tanks, and get ready. The attack doesn't come, and new scouting reveals no nexus, 6 gates plus a DT shrine. So now its time to throw down a few turrets. STILL no attack at the 12 minute mark, and now his composition reveals that he has stopped stalkers and has a ton of zealots, so its going to be zealot archon, right? Time to get the ghost academy down and some hellbats... The end result was that he ended up with basically a pure gateway force while my tech was all over the damn place, with my mining and build disrupted. Not sure what I really should have done here, since a lot of my problems were a direct result of my scouting... had I simply gone ahead with my original build I would have smashed him, but when you spot a researching twilight at 5 minutes I don't really see how you can do anything other than gear up to defend the high ground, and when I see all those zealots and no DT harass I kind of have to assume he researched charge (which is what he was actually researching when I scanned) and is using the DT shrine to pump archones. How would you play in this situation? I don't get it, toss was only on one base? Something is missing here? We're you on one base too? What was your build exactly? | ||
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rikter
United States352 Posts
Come the 8 minute mark he still hasnt attacked, still has no expo and has added on more gateways and the dark shrine. From what I see of his composition it is mostly stalkers plus a few sentries. Come 10 minutes with STILL no attack, no DT harass, I scan and see he is just getting an expo up and that his composition is now overwhelmingly zealots. From here I figure that he is using the DTs for archons...and zealot archon requires Hellbats/Ghosts, not the marauder heavy composition I had been powering in response to the blink i thought was coming. Basically I would up pinning myself back in my base and tech switching until this guy who was behind became ahead due to my fractured composition and delays from trying to respond appropriately to what I was seeing. | ||
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SSVnormandy
France392 Posts
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rikter
United States352 Posts
On July 18 2013 03:17 SSVnormandy wrote: I open a lot with a 2 or 3 rax opening. allow you to scout very well, deny proxy pylon and put pressure on if the protoss is greedy. the only problem is blink stalker a little bit hard to pull but overall it's very efficient and disturb a lot protoss plan. The issue here is that I scouted him maybe a little too well; the toss all-ins are so strong and so varied that you really cant just ignore it, and each requires its own specific response. The cost of him putting up structures he didnt need right away pales in comparison to the cost of me delaying a starport and other units to make tanks and high ground bunkers etc, and the various tech switches only put me farther behind, while his composition eventually normalized. | ||
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SoniC_eu
Denmark1008 Posts
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SoniC_eu
Denmark1008 Posts
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Kvassten
Sweden159 Posts
On July 18 2013 03:27 SoniC_eu wrote: So basically even after you scout the toss gas timings, you have no defiinitve idea of what build he is doing. The only real indicator IMO is an expo. More or less yes but that's also everything you wanna know. If you see no expo at 5:40 don't expand yourself until it's "safe" but keep building SCVs so when you finally float your expo down to your natural you can saturate it immediately. | ||
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vhapter
Brazil677 Posts
On July 18 2013 03:27 SoniC_eu wrote: So basically even after you scout the toss gas timings, you have no defiinitve idea of what build he is doing. The only real indicator IMO is an expo. You get an idea of what he is NOT doing as well as what he could be doing. Chrono boost usage (saving? on his core?), the amount of probes mining gas, whether he is building a msc core right away or not, his pylon count/timing vs nexus timing vs amount of units before both, among other things, tell you a story. I think terran players should actually study most protoss openings so they can better understand them. Even seeing a nexus doesn't stop the protoss from going stargate, dts, or whatever, but you can rule early all ins and a few things (a blink all-in is pretty unlikely because it's much weaker). | ||
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