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On March 26 2013 10:35 vBr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2013 04:30 Garmer wrote:On February 02 2013 04:39 avilo wrote:On February 02 2013 04:20 aksfjh wrote:On February 02 2013 03:36 Everlong wrote:
Ok, cool, you can add following...
Here are players I know that regularly play mech at gm/m level, definitely go check them if you want to learn how to mech in HotS:
Supernova- sick 2base TvP mech push, often mechs in TvT, TvZ
Beastyqt - He is playing mech TvP (there are some cool Vods on his stream) often, TvT mostly, rarely TvZ
avilo - Always mechs TvT, TvZ, never TvP (facepalm), hope he can overcome his issues in TvP
Also, check out Strelok, Trimaster, ForGG (recently started streaming), they also play mech often...
If anyone is interested, I'm willing to start discussion on any topic regarding mech in all matchups as I've been playing and watching a lot of mech games through whole beta.. For avilo, you really shouldn't "facepalm" at the lack of TvP mech. There are some really notable clips and legitimate complaints he's had with TvP mech. Mech is far from the amazing "goto" strat many BW enthusiasts and non-terrans claim it is. I had another one of those mech TvP games yesterday. Killed about 50 probes, had a "stronger" army than Protoss, 20 tanks pre-sieged with battle hellions in front. Protoss opened 1 base blink stalker all-in, did zero damage. Went into DTS afterwards, did minimal damage. Then he 1A's immortal's, archons, and chargelots into 20 pre-sieged tanks and he ended up winning the game. Mech TvP is terrible. It makes you wanna punch kittens, and that is not fun! TvT/TvZ it can be good though. you should trie tank, mine , instead of battle hellion tank there also some pretty strong build with double factory into mine tank push mine are a beast, i always open with mine, they protect you from every stupid rush of any kinda, truly amazing Vs Immortals you'd prefer have a ton of hellbats rather than mines. 20 sieged tanks alone will easily be broken, you'd need a good walloff to be able to survive that. To beat Protoss you need a healthy mix of everything really, 20 tanks alone is bad.
i think mine are better
hellebat and mine have basically the same cost, but a mines can do 160 damage(plus splash) vs protoss before dying, a hellbat can never do that, also the two range is bad vs everything but zealot
another think that i want, is to build a composition of 2-3 units for the entire game, not adding every units at terran disposal, i don't find it funny...i want to play like in BW with only 2-3 units and master them perfectly
On March 28 2013 18:17 ThisisRaider wrote:
What do widow mines and ravens HSM's do to immortal shields? Just curious, I tried looking in my replays but, too much pew pew to be sure what did what. xD
they treat it as a normal shield, so no reduction to 10
i think that mines become really strong, with Drilling upgrade, that upgrade it's so important that u need it asap
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United Kingdom12025 Posts
Ideally, you want to open some kind of 1/1/1 (I like to do reactor hellion/mine expand depending on matchup/map/scouting) with expo somewhere in there. Then add 2 more factories when your 3/4th gases are secured and then add 2 armories. Then throw down 3rd CC. This will get you to 200/200 with 2/2 upgrades in like 15/16 minutes most of the time, if you don't supply block yourself or forget production cycle.
This is pretty much my opening but rather than reactor mines or hellions I always open siege expand to be super safe. I also delay my starport quite a bit, but it's the same general idea.
I go barracks > factory > techlab > cc > tank/bunker (if against toss) > another tank or a mine depending on what I've scouted), get nat gas instantly and go up to 3 factories > 2 armories constant upgrades > 3rd CC. I only really add a starport on 2 base if it's TvT where I 1/1/1 or in TvP if I scout stargate play or collosus.
I generally go for a much later third, because I like to feel safe and I really don't feel early on that you need the gas income off of three base, let alone the mineral income to even max out if you need to. If I get contained on 2 base I just go around dropping with tanks/hellions as I know sure as hell my base is safe.
My composition in TvP is entirely tanks and hellbats. I add thors if he goes stargate and vikings, but it's mainly always tank/hellbat and until the toss gets to like 5 bases or so, usually if you 2/2 timing push your tank hellbat army can pretty much destroy whatever the hell they're building if they're not going air to reset them back to 2 bases or even just outright win the game depending on the map. You should be maxing up off of 2 base with 2/2 at 200/200 (just about) and I push out and expand to my third behind it (get my CC quickly though).
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Thats awesome, I never use mines TvP besides the early game. Also if they spam immortals I usually get ghosts.
Thinking about it, Ghosts are still better than ravens vs immortal zlot archon and ht.
EMP and HSM damage is the same ( I dont know the radius of the AOE )
But HSM's have a long delay and the units affected can be pulled back in smaller numbers.
EMP lands next to instantly and they can drain energy / snipe if needed. (when they dont clump the HT's together)
Ghosts can cloack / nuke / still do decent damage to zealots.
Then again Raven has the PDD against blink stalkers, detection against DT's and when your mech, your thors often kill they observers. Also Raven can move back after casting where ghosts usually end up dead.
Ravens can also harras with turrets / HSM's on workers and wall off stuff with turrets.
So, which one is actually better? o0
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ghost for me, because he is cheaper in gas, and for mech i need gas
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Thats quite true, didnt even consider that. 
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On March 28 2013 18:24 Garmer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 10:35 vBr wrote:On March 25 2013 04:30 Garmer wrote:On February 02 2013 04:39 avilo wrote:On February 02 2013 04:20 aksfjh wrote:On February 02 2013 03:36 Everlong wrote:
Ok, cool, you can add following...
Here are players I know that regularly play mech at gm/m level, definitely go check them if you want to learn how to mech in HotS:
Supernova- sick 2base TvP mech push, often mechs in TvT, TvZ
Beastyqt - He is playing mech TvP (there are some cool Vods on his stream) often, TvT mostly, rarely TvZ
avilo - Always mechs TvT, TvZ, never TvP (facepalm), hope he can overcome his issues in TvP
Also, check out Strelok, Trimaster, ForGG (recently started streaming), they also play mech often...
If anyone is interested, I'm willing to start discussion on any topic regarding mech in all matchups as I've been playing and watching a lot of mech games through whole beta.. For avilo, you really shouldn't "facepalm" at the lack of TvP mech. There are some really notable clips and legitimate complaints he's had with TvP mech. Mech is far from the amazing "goto" strat many BW enthusiasts and non-terrans claim it is. I had another one of those mech TvP games yesterday. Killed about 50 probes, had a "stronger" army than Protoss, 20 tanks pre-sieged with battle hellions in front. Protoss opened 1 base blink stalker all-in, did zero damage. Went into DTS afterwards, did minimal damage. Then he 1A's immortal's, archons, and chargelots into 20 pre-sieged tanks and he ended up winning the game. Mech TvP is terrible. It makes you wanna punch kittens, and that is not fun! TvT/TvZ it can be good though. you should trie tank, mine , instead of battle hellion tank there also some pretty strong build with double factory into mine tank push mine are a beast, i always open with mine, they protect you from every stupid rush of any kinda, truly amazing Vs Immortals you'd prefer have a ton of hellbats rather than mines. 20 sieged tanks alone will easily be broken, you'd need a good walloff to be able to survive that. To beat Protoss you need a healthy mix of everything really, 20 tanks alone is bad. i think mine are better hellebat and mine have basically the same cost, but a mines can do 160 damage(plus splash) vs protoss before dying, a hellbat can never do that, also the two range is bad vs everything but zealot another think that i want, is to build a composition of 2-3 units for the entire game, not adding every units at terran disposal, i don't find it funny...i want to play like in BW with only 2-3 units and master them perfectly Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 18:17 ThisisRaider wrote:
What do widow mines and ravens HSM's do to immortal shields? Just curious, I tried looking in my replays but, too much pew pew to be sure what did what. xD they treat it as a normal shield, so no reduction to 10 i think that mines become really strong, with Drilling upgrade, that upgrade it's so important that u need it asap
Been having huge success with hellbat + medivac vs pretty much any immortal based army. My experience with widowmines is that they grow less and less useful the later in the game it becomes. Storms and Colossus do counter them fairly well.
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Dragon doesn't mech that often. Why is he on the list? Even if he does mech occasionally linking his twitch.tv will just frustrate players as they look through the video archives to actually find a mech game.
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Strelok wins Zotac Cups and Go4Sc2s with mech in all matchups, go check his stream.
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On March 29 2013 18:44 vBr wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 18:24 Garmer wrote:On March 26 2013 10:35 vBr wrote:On March 25 2013 04:30 Garmer wrote:On February 02 2013 04:39 avilo wrote:On February 02 2013 04:20 aksfjh wrote:On February 02 2013 03:36 Everlong wrote:
Ok, cool, you can add following...
Here are players I know that regularly play mech at gm/m level, definitely go check them if you want to learn how to mech in HotS:
Supernova- sick 2base TvP mech push, often mechs in TvT, TvZ
Beastyqt - He is playing mech TvP (there are some cool Vods on his stream) often, TvT mostly, rarely TvZ
avilo - Always mechs TvT, TvZ, never TvP (facepalm), hope he can overcome his issues in TvP
Also, check out Strelok, Trimaster, ForGG (recently started streaming), they also play mech often...
If anyone is interested, I'm willing to start discussion on any topic regarding mech in all matchups as I've been playing and watching a lot of mech games through whole beta.. For avilo, you really shouldn't "facepalm" at the lack of TvP mech. There are some really notable clips and legitimate complaints he's had with TvP mech. Mech is far from the amazing "goto" strat many BW enthusiasts and non-terrans claim it is. I had another one of those mech TvP games yesterday. Killed about 50 probes, had a "stronger" army than Protoss, 20 tanks pre-sieged with battle hellions in front. Protoss opened 1 base blink stalker all-in, did zero damage. Went into DTS afterwards, did minimal damage. Then he 1A's immortal's, archons, and chargelots into 20 pre-sieged tanks and he ended up winning the game. Mech TvP is terrible. It makes you wanna punch kittens, and that is not fun! TvT/TvZ it can be good though. you should trie tank, mine , instead of battle hellion tank there also some pretty strong build with double factory into mine tank push mine are a beast, i always open with mine, they protect you from every stupid rush of any kinda, truly amazing Vs Immortals you'd prefer have a ton of hellbats rather than mines. 20 sieged tanks alone will easily be broken, you'd need a good walloff to be able to survive that. To beat Protoss you need a healthy mix of everything really, 20 tanks alone is bad. i think mine are better hellebat and mine have basically the same cost, but a mines can do 160 damage(plus splash) vs protoss before dying, a hellbat can never do that, also the two range is bad vs everything but zealot another think that i want, is to build a composition of 2-3 units for the entire game, not adding every units at terran disposal, i don't find it funny...i want to play like in BW with only 2-3 units and master them perfectly On March 28 2013 18:17 ThisisRaider wrote:
What do widow mines and ravens HSM's do to immortal shields? Just curious, I tried looking in my replays but, too much pew pew to be sure what did what. xD they treat it as a normal shield, so no reduction to 10 i think that mines become really strong, with Drilling upgrade, that upgrade it's so important that u need it asap Been having huge success with hellbat + medivac vs pretty much any immortal based army. My experience with widowmines is that they grow less and less useful the later in the game it becomes. Storms and Colossus do counter them fairly well.
your are correct, after having tried it properly, i can say that hellbat are better, but without ghost it's still almost impossibile to beat a good toss with mass immortal(they are the real problem of mech, now that zealot have a counter)
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United Kingdom12025 Posts
On March 29 2013 20:51 Garmer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2013 18:44 vBr wrote:On March 28 2013 18:24 Garmer wrote:On March 26 2013 10:35 vBr wrote:On March 25 2013 04:30 Garmer wrote:On February 02 2013 04:39 avilo wrote:On February 02 2013 04:20 aksfjh wrote:On February 02 2013 03:36 Everlong wrote:
Ok, cool, you can add following...
Here are players I know that regularly play mech at gm/m level, definitely go check them if you want to learn how to mech in HotS:
Supernova- sick 2base TvP mech push, often mechs in TvT, TvZ
Beastyqt - He is playing mech TvP (there are some cool Vods on his stream) often, TvT mostly, rarely TvZ
avilo - Always mechs TvT, TvZ, never TvP (facepalm), hope he can overcome his issues in TvP
Also, check out Strelok, Trimaster, ForGG (recently started streaming), they also play mech often...
If anyone is interested, I'm willing to start discussion on any topic regarding mech in all matchups as I've been playing and watching a lot of mech games through whole beta.. For avilo, you really shouldn't "facepalm" at the lack of TvP mech. There are some really notable clips and legitimate complaints he's had with TvP mech. Mech is far from the amazing "goto" strat many BW enthusiasts and non-terrans claim it is. I had another one of those mech TvP games yesterday. Killed about 50 probes, had a "stronger" army than Protoss, 20 tanks pre-sieged with battle hellions in front. Protoss opened 1 base blink stalker all-in, did zero damage. Went into DTS afterwards, did minimal damage. Then he 1A's immortal's, archons, and chargelots into 20 pre-sieged tanks and he ended up winning the game. Mech TvP is terrible. It makes you wanna punch kittens, and that is not fun! TvT/TvZ it can be good though. you should trie tank, mine , instead of battle hellion tank there also some pretty strong build with double factory into mine tank push mine are a beast, i always open with mine, they protect you from every stupid rush of any kinda, truly amazing Vs Immortals you'd prefer have a ton of hellbats rather than mines. 20 sieged tanks alone will easily be broken, you'd need a good walloff to be able to survive that. To beat Protoss you need a healthy mix of everything really, 20 tanks alone is bad. i think mine are better hellebat and mine have basically the same cost, but a mines can do 160 damage(plus splash) vs protoss before dying, a hellbat can never do that, also the two range is bad vs everything but zealot another think that i want, is to build a composition of 2-3 units for the entire game, not adding every units at terran disposal, i don't find it funny...i want to play like in BW with only 2-3 units and master them perfectly On March 28 2013 18:17 ThisisRaider wrote:
What do widow mines and ravens HSM's do to immortal shields? Just curious, I tried looking in my replays but, too much pew pew to be sure what did what. xD they treat it as a normal shield, so no reduction to 10 i think that mines become really strong, with Drilling upgrade, that upgrade it's so important that u need it asap Been having huge success with hellbat + medivac vs pretty much any immortal based army. My experience with widowmines is that they grow less and less useful the later in the game it becomes. Storms and Colossus do counter them fairly well. your are correct, after having tried it properly, i can say that hellbat are better, but without ghost it's still almost impossibile to beat a good toss with mass immortal(they are the real problem of mech, now that zealot have a counter)
You'd be surprised how good tank/hellbat is against mass immortal as long as you've got enough hellbats to keep them away from your tanks for ages.
Then again if they're going mass immortal you should easily be getting ghosts anyway, there's no reason not to get ghosts against protoss imo, get 'em on 3 bases.
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On March 29 2013 20:58 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2013 20:51 Garmer wrote:On March 29 2013 18:44 vBr wrote:On March 28 2013 18:24 Garmer wrote:On March 26 2013 10:35 vBr wrote:On March 25 2013 04:30 Garmer wrote:On February 02 2013 04:39 avilo wrote:On February 02 2013 04:20 aksfjh wrote:On February 02 2013 03:36 Everlong wrote:
Ok, cool, you can add following...
Here are players I know that regularly play mech at gm/m level, definitely go check them if you want to learn how to mech in HotS:
Supernova- sick 2base TvP mech push, often mechs in TvT, TvZ
Beastyqt - He is playing mech TvP (there are some cool Vods on his stream) often, TvT mostly, rarely TvZ
avilo - Always mechs TvT, TvZ, never TvP (facepalm), hope he can overcome his issues in TvP
Also, check out Strelok, Trimaster, ForGG (recently started streaming), they also play mech often...
If anyone is interested, I'm willing to start discussion on any topic regarding mech in all matchups as I've been playing and watching a lot of mech games through whole beta.. For avilo, you really shouldn't "facepalm" at the lack of TvP mech. There are some really notable clips and legitimate complaints he's had with TvP mech. Mech is far from the amazing "goto" strat many BW enthusiasts and non-terrans claim it is. I had another one of those mech TvP games yesterday. Killed about 50 probes, had a "stronger" army than Protoss, 20 tanks pre-sieged with battle hellions in front. Protoss opened 1 base blink stalker all-in, did zero damage. Went into DTS afterwards, did minimal damage. Then he 1A's immortal's, archons, and chargelots into 20 pre-sieged tanks and he ended up winning the game. Mech TvP is terrible. It makes you wanna punch kittens, and that is not fun! TvT/TvZ it can be good though. you should trie tank, mine , instead of battle hellion tank there also some pretty strong build with double factory into mine tank push mine are a beast, i always open with mine, they protect you from every stupid rush of any kinda, truly amazing Vs Immortals you'd prefer have a ton of hellbats rather than mines. 20 sieged tanks alone will easily be broken, you'd need a good walloff to be able to survive that. To beat Protoss you need a healthy mix of everything really, 20 tanks alone is bad. i think mine are better hellebat and mine have basically the same cost, but a mines can do 160 damage(plus splash) vs protoss before dying, a hellbat can never do that, also the two range is bad vs everything but zealot another think that i want, is to build a composition of 2-3 units for the entire game, not adding every units at terran disposal, i don't find it funny...i want to play like in BW with only 2-3 units and master them perfectly On March 28 2013 18:17 ThisisRaider wrote:
What do widow mines and ravens HSM's do to immortal shields? Just curious, I tried looking in my replays but, too much pew pew to be sure what did what. xD they treat it as a normal shield, so no reduction to 10 i think that mines become really strong, with Drilling upgrade, that upgrade it's so important that u need it asap Been having huge success with hellbat + medivac vs pretty much any immortal based army. My experience with widowmines is that they grow less and less useful the later in the game it becomes. Storms and Colossus do counter them fairly well. your are correct, after having tried it properly, i can say that hellbat are better, but without ghost it's still almost impossibile to beat a good toss with mass immortal(they are the real problem of mech, now that zealot have a counter) You'd be surprised how good tank/hellbat is against mass immortal as long as you've got enough hellbats to keep them away from your tanks for ages. Then again if they're going mass immortal you should easily be getting ghosts anyway, there's no reason not to get ghosts against protoss imo, get 'em on 3 bases.
Banshees work well too, but yeah, a fair amount of tanks/thors with a BUTTLOAD of hellbats in front sure get the job done most of the time. I play rather aggressive so not sure I've ever met someone who manages to get 10+ immortals.
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United Kingdom12025 Posts
Byong went mech against Stork in todays Special matches. He lost due to bad upgrades and a carrier switch from Stork (yay!), but he still could have won with the proper upgrades/reactions.
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United Kingdom12025 Posts
I can't find it on eSports TV's youtube channel yet. T_T
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Nevermind, I worked something out.
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Game between Stork(T.B.L.S) vs Bbyong(Masters).
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On March 31 2013 18:00 Sapphire.lux wrote:Game between Stork(T.B.L.S) vs Bbyong(Masters).
If I remember this correctly Bbyong gets owned by carriers 
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Actually I LOVE to mech in TvZ; I very rarely go bio in that matchup :D
But with that being said, I'm quite lost with regard to how to mech properly in TvT. I would love to try out some builds and learn though.
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On March 31 2013 18:26 Clazziquai10 wrote:
Actually I LOVE to mech in TvZ; I very rarely go bio in that matchup :D
But with that being said, I'm quite lost with regard to how to mech properly in TvT. I would love to try out some builds and learn though.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=405574
This build was used the other day in the GSTL to great effect, and it's very strong at the moment. Can lead into a good mech game by just expanding and throwing down a couple more factories; you already have an armory as well.
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On March 31 2013 18:43 LardMaster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2013 18:26 Clazziquai10 wrote:
Actually I LOVE to mech in TvZ; I very rarely go bio in that matchup :D
But with that being said, I'm quite lost with regard to how to mech properly in TvT. I would love to try out some builds and learn though. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=405574This build was used the other day in the GSTL to great effect, and it's very strong at the moment. Can lead into a good mech game by just expanding and throwing down a couple more factories; you already have an armory as well.
You can also do a gas first marine mine drop, into delayed cloak banshees. This is strong because it is extremely safe and has the potential to end the game immediately. Your opponent is forced to use scans on the mines, and therefore will not have scans to use for the banshees.
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EPT
