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For people who are tired of fighting roaches with roaches?
Theoretically speaking, if I go Hydra/Baneling it should be able to counter roaches... but does it?
I guess you would have to go heavy on the melee upgrade to get the + 5 damage, use the banelings as mines by spreading them burrowed... then use creep to do hit and run tactics on roaches as they chase you back to your base and you detonate individual banelings 1 by 1 to get the most cost effecient use...
Also, imagine if he tried to burrow roaches and you used your overseer to blow mines as he crawled underground towards you...
Does that sound right?
But isn't splitting hydra and baneling too expensive?
I guess if I wanted to counter roaches with something other then roaches or mutas (Mutas just being too late of tech) I would have to go for.... Queens and Banelings....
So with this long attack range on the queen, I can pick off the overseers to protect my banelings...
So what am I suppose to do when I try to run with my queens, but I can't?
I guess I'm suppose to pick off the overseer with a group of queens and then burrow my queens to protect them....
and then when he comes at my base, I'm suppose to explode the banelings 1 by 1?
I'm just sick and tired of fighting roaches with roaches... and I do believe it's possible to fight roaches with something other then roaches.... infestors don't work or count.
Sometimes, I almost feel like the hydralisk den was suppose to unlock both hydras and banelings...
Do you ever feel that way?
So the queen range is suppose to make queen + bane the real root philosophy strength of zerg so that the queen can adequately pick off detectors like observers and overseers, which supposedly can buy you macro time?
Someone please tell me that this is a viable way to fight roaches with out having to make roaches and give me some advice on how to MAKE it work...
User was banned for this post.
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try ling infestor, you will shortly be served at the strategy forum
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Believe me, I've even tried infestor with CRACK lings man.
And you know you aren't getting the right units when even that doesn't work.
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This seems very hypothetical. But I kind of see your point.
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umm, banelings vs roaches? Only way to kill roaches is by getting infestors and roaches... hydras do a ton of damage but are too slow vs speed roaches and cant tank any damage.
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you can fight roaches with banelings, but the best way to do it is not with dispersed burrowed banelings, which is a huge gimmick move.
Excellent surrounds with multiple groups of ling baneling is the way to go.
It seems you are most scared of burrowed roach attacks, which are also gimmick at best.
If you really want to counter gimmick with gimmick then I guess it would be appropriate.
And as the poster above me said, ling infestor is a legitimate and accepted non-roach way to fight roach.
By the time you have cracklings you should also have ultra, which are neccesary to kill the roaches as upgraded lings vs upgraded roaches will still lose, you simply use the lings to get there.
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On September 09 2012 16:35 LgNKami wrote:
umm, banelings vs roaches? Only way to kill roaches is by getting infestors and roaches... hydras do a ton of damage but are too slow vs speed roaches and cant tank any damage.
So mirror match ups are literally mirror match ups?
Great...
Can someone please tell me what the counter for boredom is?
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what... is... this...?
is this a troll, a non-native speaker... or a crazy person?
banelings aren't good vs. roaches at all, i don't care what other unit they're with. Upgrade your lings or go muta if you don't want to play roach vs. roach.
Look up muta builds, I know you said they were to late in tech, but that's the only common practice. Even then, you switch back into roaches. I guess you could all in with ling/bane every game.
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ultralisks and fungal destroy roaches, so do broodlords :p
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TLADT24920 Posts
Roaches tank so much banelings, it's not even funny >< I think you have to stick to roach+infestors when fighting roach armies ...
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On September 09 2012 16:38 AtlasMech wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 16:35 LgNKami wrote:
umm, banelings vs roaches? Only way to kill roaches is by getting infestors and roaches... hydras do a ton of damage but are too slow vs speed roaches and cant tank any damage. So mirror match ups are literally mirror match ups? Great... Can someone please tell me what the counter for boredom is?
I mean, its the same thing in all mirror matchups...
You can go mass marauder vs mass marine but then what would be the result? marines would destroy. Only way to kill mass marines is to either go mass marines or have better mechanics. Same with all races. Roaches are such a meaty unit that the only real way to get rid of a roach army is roaches. Mirrors are more of a test of mechanics and positioning really, especially mid-late game zvz.
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On September 09 2012 16:38 Sepheren wrote:
what... is... this...?
is this a troll, a non-native speaker... or a crazy person?
banelings aren't good vs. roaches at all, i don't care what other unit they're with. Upgrade your lings or go muta if you don't want to play roach vs. roach.
Look up muta builds, I know you said they were to late in tech, but that's the only common practice. Even then, you switch back into roaches. I guess you could all in with ling/bane every game.
This game revolves around an immediate rock paper scissors design...
With the mutalisk not being an adequate way to react to roach in timing, it means there must be some other way to handle or counter roaches, with out going roaches.
Therefore, burrowed and spread banes with the +1 ups using queens to pick off overseer must be the ideal way to handle/counter roaches.
The queens are also support attack against roaches along the way, as they can also burrow...
Maybe the queen should be able to burrow and move underground?
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On September 09 2012 16:42 AtlasMech wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 16:38 Sepheren wrote:
what... is... this...?
is this a troll, a non-native speaker... or a crazy person?
banelings aren't good vs. roaches at all, i don't care what other unit they're with. Upgrade your lings or go muta if you don't want to play roach vs. roach.
Look up muta builds, I know you said they were to late in tech, but that's the only common practice. Even then, you switch back into roaches. I guess you could all in with ling/bane every game. This game revolves around an immediate rock paper scissors design... With the mutalisk not being an adequate way to react to roach in timing, it means there must be some other way to handle or counter roaches, with out going roaches. Therefore, burrowed and spread banes + queens must be the ideal way to handle/counter roaches.
On September 09 2012 16:41 nkr wrote:
ultralisks and fungal destroy roaches, so do broodlords :p
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LOL how does the queen range increase help kill overseer? its still has same anti air range no?
Heres how you fight roaches without roaches.
Ling infestor, ( upgrades). Ultralisks, mutaslisk ling spines, broodlords, hydra ling... hydra ling infestor...
Just ... wtf is that post anyways lmao O_O doesnt really make sense..
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On September 09 2012 16:43 Snake.69 wrote:
LOL how does the queen range increase helps kill overseer? its still has same anti air range no?
Oh... I was under the impression that it got + 2 range on both attacks....
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lol. Queens are fucking terrible vs roaches and cannot by any means pick off overseers in any viable manner. Amazing how you can say infestors don't count when infestors are a very good unit vs mass roach. Lings are good to abuse lack of mobility of roaches, but really there aren't that many units. You can use mutas as well. Sounds like you're being overly picky.
How the fuck you say mutas aren't viable vs roach timings but BURROWED BANELINGS ARE is beyond me. What you're even going on about picking off 200 hp overseers is just too much. I can't help but assume you're dicking around. And I'm usually fairly nice to out there theorycrafts.
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On September 09 2012 16:42 AtlasMech wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 16:38 Sepheren wrote:
what... is... this...?
is this a troll, a non-native speaker... or a crazy person?
banelings aren't good vs. roaches at all, i don't care what other unit they're with. Upgrade your lings or go muta if you don't want to play roach vs. roach.
Look up muta builds, I know you said they were to late in tech, but that's the only common practice. Even then, you switch back into roaches. I guess you could all in with ling/bane every game. This game revolves around an immediate rock paper scissors design... With the mutalisk not being an adequate way to react to roach in timing, it means there must be some other way to handle or counter roaches, with out going roaches. Therefore, burrowed and spread banes with the +1 ups using queens to pick off overseer must be the ideal way to handle/counter roaches.
Except not. It's a mirror match. Meaning if you're not using the most beneficial army combination in the game, you're doing it wrong. Ling bane will cost 10x more to minerals/gas to kill an equal supply of roaches, therefore you're doing it wrong. Sorry you're not going to randomly meta game ling bane against roaches after 2 years of people attempting different stuff. It's this way for a reason. It's the most cost efficient army in zvz.
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On September 09 2012 16:46 FabledIntegral wrote:
lol. Queens are fucking terrible vs roaches and cannot by any means pick off overseers in any viable manner. Amazing how you can say infestors don't count when infestors are a very good unit vs mass roach. Lings are good to abuse lack of mobility of roaches, but really there aren't that many units. You can use mutas as well. Sounds like you're being overly picky.
So your suggestion is... to go infestor + queen to kill roaches... because I've even tried infestor crackling and it doesn't work...
Hmm... maybe I will do that... thank you.
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On September 09 2012 16:46 FabledIntegral wrote:
How the fuck you say mutas aren't viable vs roach timings but BURROWED BANELINGS ARE is beyond me. What you're even going on about picking off 200 hp overseers is just too much. I can't help but assume you're dicking around. And I'm usually fairly nice to out there theorycrafts.
Not only does burrow come way before spire in timing...
There is also the proxied production which also shaves off a load of time.
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On September 09 2012 16:48 AtlasMech wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 16:46 FabledIntegral wrote:
lol. Queens are fucking terrible vs roaches and cannot by any means pick off overseers in any viable manner. Amazing how you can say infestors don't count when infestors are a very good unit vs mass roach. Lings are good to abuse lack of mobility of roaches, but really there aren't that many units. You can use mutas as well. Sounds like you're being overly picky. So your suggestion is... to go infestor + queen to kill roaches... because I've even tried infestor crackling and it doesn't work... Hmm... maybe I will do that... thank you.
Then you're a bad player or you did it wrong. Or you're just massively trolling. Which is most likely because you keep suggesting queens when they are awful for the roles you're suggesting.
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EPT
