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[G] The ultimate TvP all in - 11/11 rax metagame exploitat…

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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offal
Profile Joined February 2011
6 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-28 13:18:51
April 26 2012 02:27 GMT
#1

The ultimate TvP all in - metagame exploitation


[image loading]


Hi TL !

I’m here to present you a build that made me enter the Grand Master League at season 2, and kept me at a Top master level so far. This BO is EASY to execute, extremely POWERFUL, UNEXPECTED, provides QUICK WINS and will make you reach an UNREAL WIN RATIO in TvP once you master it.

It works on any map, on any position and beats any Protoss opening. All you need is to execute it perfectly, respect the timing and follow the thought process.

Build order :

+ Show Spoiler +
Build in the case you don't trap his scouting probe

10 supply depot
1min10/20 - take one scv to build the proxy raxx
11 raxx
Stop scv production
1min55 - 11 proxy raxx
Build two more scv
Build one marine
14 Orbital Command
3min 10 - 16 supply depot
4min10 - Leave your base with everything
Make one more scv


Build in the case you trap his scouting probe

10 supply depot
1min10/20 - take one scv to build the proxy raxx
11 raxx
Stop scv production
1min55 - 11 proxy raxx
Build two more scvs
Build the second supply depot once his probe enters your base
Build one marine
14 Orbital Command (slightly delayed)
4min10 - Leave your base with everything
Build one more scv

Overall, you only build 2 supply depots and 2 raxxs.

The build order being explained, let’s go to the thought process and the game scenario..


1. My overall winrate

+ Show Spoiler +
Since season 2, I made this build 84 times and got so far 77 wins and only 7 loses, that is to say a 91,7% win ratio. I’ve beaten the best of the best with this build, and I can assure you that this build will, in the next days, dramatically change the TvP metagame.

I was known as “YaA” until season 5 when I renamed into “offal”. Sc2gear here shows the performance of this build when well executed.

[image loading]


My win rate was a little higher with my former name because maps were quite smaller and raxx building time was not nerfed (-5 seconds at that time).

I had to make two bunkers from time to time to prevent any base trade scenario. I just built a bunker in my base to prevent his stalkers from going into my base.


2. The maps you’ve to veto

+ Show Spoiler +
The smaller the map is, the better it is for you. Bigger maps may give time to Protoss players to adapt their build to your attack. Therefore, you have to veto the following maps :
- Korhal Compound
- Entombed Valley
- Tal’darim Altar


3. Building your proxy raxx

+ Show Spoiler +
You need to build your proxy raxx in areas that won’t be scouted by his scouting probe. You also need to make sure your scv going to build the proxy raxx won’t be seen by his scouting probe. Usually, you need to make this scv leave your base and go to the proxy raxx area once the first supply depot is half way done. You have 150 minerals at the desired time, once your scv reaches the area of the proxy.

With the following pictures, you’ll see where you have to build the proxy raxx. The red arrow shows the path of your scv building the proxy raxx.

Cloud Kingdom LE

[image loading]


Daybreak LE

[image loading]


Ohana LE

[image loading]


Antiga Shipyard

When you are located at the top of the map, you can build your proxy raxx where the yellow arrow shows you can. When the Protoss scouts and goes from one base to another, he doesn’t see your proxy raxx (cf second picture). However, on other spots, you can’t since the scouting probe is able to see your raxx.

[image loading]


[image loading]


Metalopolis

Make sure your scv goes through the Xel Naga Tower, you could see his scouting probe and therefore avoid it. When you build your proxy raxx here, the Protoss can’t see it with the Xel Naga Towers.

[image loading]


Shakuras Plateau

Same. Go to the Xel Naga Tower first to avoid his probe and guess where his base is located.

[image loading]


4. Killing his scouting probe

+ Show Spoiler +
This part is one of the most crucial one in the thought process. Your main objective here : he must see you didn’t take gas and then you kill his scouting probe.

a. Why do Protoss players need to scout a Terran base ?

Because with the actual metagame, there are mostly 3 builds in TvP :
- 1/1/1
- 2 raxx (reactor/techlab) early pressure into expand
- 1 raxx expand

The first two builds are highly aggressive and require gas. The third one is defensive, does not require gas and provides very little information to Terran players. When Protoss players face one raxx expand, they tend to play greedy (more chronoboosts on probes) and get a fast expansion.

Actually, with today’s metagame, most Protoss players want to check you didn’t take gas to convince themselves they can go for 1 gate expand safely. A Protoss who sees 1 raxx expand is also very far away from thinking you may be the aggressor in very early game. This is exactly what you want them to think : feel confident enough to fast expand and then punish them.

b. However, to insure your win, you need to kill his scouting probe.

Why ? Because if his scouting probe leaves your base, he gets control of Xel Naga towers. He’ll see your attack coming, cancel his nexus, build 2 or 3 gates and defend. As a result, your % of attack success decreases.

How do you kill his scouting probe ? You know he wants to see whether you took your gas or not. He’ll therefore enter your base. This is why you need to build your supply depot and your raxx at your ramp. Once he has enters your base, take one scv in the mineral line, or the one building the raxx, to complete the wall with another supply depot. Don’t finish the construction of the supply depot, do it few seconds later.

[image loading]


His scouting probe will be blocked into your base and killed by the incoming marine. The Protoss player will therefore play in the dark, but with the conviction you’re going for one raxx expand.

As a former Random player, I’ve also learnt that from a Protoss point of view, losing your scouting probe is very frustrating. That’s a good point for you.


5. What about if you don’t kill his scouting probe ?

+ Show Spoiler +
There are mostly 2 cases when you don’t kill his scouting probe :
- He scouted pretty late. He doesn’t enter your base because your marine would kill the probe.
- You didn’t manage to block his probe into your base.

Consequences : he’s got control of the Xel Naga Tower or his probe is waiting close to the mineral of your natural to know when you land your expected expansion. With your second marine, you need to check if his probe is at your natural to chase it. If the probe is not there, then go to the Xel Naga Tower with this marine. You now have the control of the Xel Naga Tower. However, he’ll certainly want to control it back with his stalker because if you’ve got a marine there, it is quite suspiscious: with 1 raxx expand, you should be building a bunker in front of your natural and play defensive. From now on, he’ll certainly spend more chronoboosts on his cybernetic core or his gate because you’re acting suspiscious.

Don’t forget to scout his base with the scv that built the proxy raxx. Stay as long as possible in his base (check energy on nexus and on which buildings he uses chronoboosts) and leave some seconds after his cybernetic core is made. You don’t want to have this scv killed by the incoming stalker.


6. What about if he didn’t go for 1 gate expand ?

+ Show Spoiler +
He’ll have more units to defend your push. However, that won’t make him win the game as soon as you follow the build order and the timing push.
Basically, your win ratio, given his build order, is :
- Nexus first => 100%
- Any cheese that requires 2 gas => 100%
- 1 gate expand => 95%
- 3/4 gates => 90%
- 2 gates early attack with stalkers (hit and run) => 75%

Why such a high % ? Because you leave your base at 4min10, and reach his base at 5 min. His warp cannot be ready at that time. He can’t reinforce his army as fast as he would want to.


7. The attack

+ Show Spoiler +
When you reach his base (or his expand that he’ll cancel), you have 14/15 scvs and 7 marines, without taking into account the reinforcements. He’ll usually have 1 zealot and 1 stalker. Or 2 stalkers. Or 3 stalkers if he made a very aggressive opening. You’ll undoubtedly win the fight for two reasons : marines’ dps > his army and because scv have +5 hp compared with probes.

Nevertheless, to insure the win, you need to do 6 things :
- Rally point your raxxs to his base
- Build a bunker close enough to his nexus, his gates and cybernetic core.
- Try to surround his stalkers with your scvs.
- Use from time to time, and when necessary, “hold position” on your scvs to make his probes and zealot bug. And therefore be totally useless in the fight.
- Position your marines in areas that maximize their damage and minimize their damage taken (between buildings, behind the mineral line)
- Build a bunker in your base and rally point the marines from your first raxx into it if you feel any trade base scenario is incoming (ie. he left his base with his stalkers).

Example of positionning + "holding position" with scvs :

[image loading]


What you should never do :
- Put your marines inside his mineral line : with mineral trick, his probes surround your marines. You can’t hit and run anymore.
- Let your marines close to his ramp : his probes can once again surround your marines with the mineral trick if he clicks on the minerals at his natural.

What about if he made one or two sentries (totally unexpected) ?
- Against one raxx expand, going for sentries is totally dumb. When Terran players go for one raxx expand, Protoss players have free map control. This is why they go for stalkers in early game. Therefore, you’ll almost never see sentries against your build. One sentry max.
- Sentry is anyway the worst thing to do against this build. They deal almost no damage. The building time of a sentry (37 seconds, 27 with chronoboost) lasts more time than one force field (15 seconds). That’s wasted time on a gate. Stalker is a much preferred unit (more damage, faster).


8. Why share this build today ?

+ Show Spoiler +
I've always had the idea to share this build with TL community. However, I didn’t do it until now because I wanted to keep it secret, providing me with a very high % TvP wins in ladder.

Today, I’m totally inactive. No problem to share it.


9. Replays

+ Show Spoiler +
offal vs Nightend - Metalopolis :

[image loading]

offal vs mTwUnderdark - Metalopolis :

[image loading]

offal vs RotterdaM - Scrap Station :

[image loading]

offal vs BabyKnight - Shattered Temple :

[image loading]

offal vs RatZLoogicc - Metalopolis :

[image loading]

offal vs kAra - Xel'Naga Caverns :

[image loading]

offal vs SG-Waze - Antiga Shipyard :

[image loading]

offal vs Blast-Kami - Shakuras Plateau :

[image loading]

offal vs Griffith - Shakuras Plateau :

[image loading]

offal vs VGChubz - Shakuras Plateau :

[image loading]


10. Conclusion

+ Show Spoiler +
Just go for it and get freewins.
Have fun !
IMNotMvp
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)530 Posts
April 26 2012 02:33 GMT
#2
i do this only on shakuras, because good players don't lose to those cheesy builds... or not that often
s15sLiDER
Profile Joined January 2011
United States112 Posts
April 26 2012 02:35 GMT
#3
You just wrote a guide on a 11/11 rax all in. Hardly guide worthy to be honest.
cydial
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States750 Posts
April 26 2012 02:37 GMT
#4
Have you done this on any map besides Shakuras?
-Exalt-
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States972 Posts
April 26 2012 02:39 GMT
#5
this is like writing a guide for proxy 2 gate. completely pointless and a pain for every protoss player on ladder t_t
ChoboDane
Profile Joined January 2012
Denmark98 Posts
April 26 2012 02:39 GMT
#6
Any half-decent Protoss would notice your SCV count and Rax timing, but still if scouted a little mismicro and P is dead
Ambre
Profile Joined July 2011
France416 Posts
April 26 2012 02:39 GMT
#7
I love how you post this when so many protoss are getting influenced by Parting fast Nexus Cannon play craziness :D

Thx a lot.
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self." - Aldous Huxley
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8476 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-26 02:44:13
April 26 2012 02:41 GMT
#8
This is a nice, detailed guide. I have a few questions/concerns.

What do you do when a protoss walls off his main with 2 gateways?
You also don't take into account the very popular Nexus into forge build that's been popping up lately.
Also, I don't like the misleading ambiguous title.
Moderator
marcmad
Profile Joined April 2012
Canada2 Posts
April 26 2012 03:05 GMT
#9
I am not a pro But what if the protoss wall off his ramp then use his stalkers to focus your marines while your scv attack the wall?
BioTech
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia264 Posts
April 26 2012 03:08 GMT
#10
On April 26 2012 11:35 s15sLiDER wrote:
You just wrote a guide on a 11/11 rax all in. Hardly guide worthy to be honest.


Yo, the guy is a master T (or ex) and Im sure plenty of T of varying levels of skill could find this guide handy to follow.
I actually played the original WarCraft - Orcs v Humans back in 1995!
4Relic
Profile Joined January 2012
24 Posts
April 26 2012 03:20 GMT
#11
Nice guide considering fast nexus play is coming more popular now.

Thank you
4Relic
Profile Joined January 2012
24 Posts
April 26 2012 03:21 GMT
#12
On April 26 2012 12:05 marcmad wrote:
I am not a pro But what if the protoss wall off his ramp then use his stalkers to focus your marines while your scv attack the wall?



I think this is the counter to the build, how could the Terran possibly get around it?
SgtCoDFish
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United Kingdom1520 Posts
April 26 2012 03:28 GMT
#13
I'm not going to comment on the effectiveness of the build, I don't play much TvP.

But the whole CAPITALISING words to SELL your GUIDE thing is really annoying at the begging. Makes your guide sound like a cheap advertisement for viagra or something. The rest is pretty well written, though
LighT.
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada4501 Posts
April 26 2012 03:28 GMT
#14
Hmm...if toss sees low scv count wouldnt he automatically assume some cheese is coming?
VoirDire
Profile Joined February 2009
Sweden1923 Posts
April 26 2012 03:30 GMT
#15
It's very similar to geikos 3 racks cheese, except geikos hits with 9 marines and 12 scvs and hits at 4:30 instead of 7 marines and 14/15 SCVs at 4:10.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=223517
aBstractx
Profile Joined May 2010
United States287 Posts
April 26 2012 03:49 GMT
#16
scv > probe but you dont use probes to attack the scvs, you attack the marines
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10366 Posts
April 26 2012 03:57 GMT
#17
On April 26 2012 12:30 VoirDire wrote:
It's very similar to geikos 3 racks cheese, except geikos hits with 9 marines and 12 scvs and hits at 4:30 instead of 7 marines and 14/15 SCVs at 4:10.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=223517


When you're talking about a cheese/all-in in which you must pay attention to such small details, they are not quite similar at all. Only in that they are both marine/SCV rushes.


Great guide OP! Thanks for sharing. Only problem I have is with flaunty titles like "metagame revolution" or stuff like that.
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
TechSc2
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Netherlands554 Posts
April 26 2012 06:07 GMT
#18
so standard marine scv all in....

I really applaud the way you wrote the guide, and you put alot of effort into making it, but...

It's still an marine scv all in that is easy to scout since you make a 11 rax, and the only reason terrans makes an 11 rax is to do 11/11 marine scv all in.

So if a marine pops out before 3:20, you know it's an 11 rax and you can almost 100% sure say there is a second 11, or 13 rax incoming, go 3 stalker rush with chrono spend on gateways instead of warpgate and block ramp with gateways/pylons and start picking off marines.
Twitch.tv/TechGTV / Twitter.com/TechGTV
wichenks
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada153 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-26 06:16:48
April 26 2012 06:16 GMT
#19
the ultimate tvp build? come on dude. 11/11 proxy rax. the title should read "tvp cheese" not a guide. thanks.
Sometimes Artosis and I like to have Hot 6ix with each other - Tasteless
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10366 Posts
April 26 2012 06:19 GMT
#20
You edited your post but you still didn't edit the 2nd part? It's a TvP Build. Cheeses are builds. Even if he called it TvP guide, this is a guide to a cheese build. So it's still both a guide and a build.

Cheeses are legit strats too... if it works at GM, then that should be good enough for most TLers.
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
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