EPT[G] The ultimate TvP all in - 11/11 rax metagame exploitat…
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CryMore
United States497 Posts
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FredYuanme
United States30 Posts
Also any protoss should know that a marine pops out earliest at 3:10, so any marine before that is very suspicious. | ||
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gaymon
Germany1023 Posts
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clownfish
Angola25 Posts
On May 01 2012 04:49 Amoment wrote: Its not that Terran is OP already, but this guide is the biggest garbage I´ve ever seen, sorry to say, very nice guide you have there, but you won´t be a better player with this. You might learn some micro, but you don´t learn any macro. Teaching cheese is exactly the wrong way. I am glad that you quit SC2. how are you not improving at the game when you are adapting to weaknesses in your opponents build? | ||
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Genome852
United States979 Posts
On May 02 2012 04:28 Thylacine wrote: It's a tactic that relies on secrecy, and if revealed usually fails. Like this baddie-bomtastic-build. Sorry to burst your bubble, big boy. I know that... the person I quoted had his definitions mixed up. "lol there is a big difference between cheese and an all-in... all-ins are only good for catching people by surprise" | ||
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NoBanMeAgain
United States194 Posts
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Supah
708 Posts
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
On May 02 2012 20:19 clownfish wrote: how are you not improving at the game when you are adapting to weaknesses in your opponents build? Weakness??? This is a totally blind build. When you use this, you don't care a shit about what your opponent is doing. | ||
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oMNY.SEA
Australia47 Posts
On April 28 2012 14:38 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: All-ins are part of the game If your opponents focus too much on lategame playing the "real way", then if you are a serious player (and assuming you're not an idiot), you will take advantage of that by all-in'ing or cheesing. How can you not understand this? By training opponents to learn how to deal with this, it makes them better players as well. As the one performing it, you get a nice cheese you can throw out once in a while, especially if you expect him to be going nexus first or such. Playing the "real way" isnt necessarily playing always with the "lategame" in mind, its simply playing safely to rely on your skills rather than a huge risk to reward scale. Some risk to reward is fine also, why do you think i promote the idea of trying the Alive/Brown version.. with the expo. And yes, training to be able to beat this stuff is great, because people still use it and all sorts of other cheeses - being able to throw it out isnt that great, especially in terms of long term training benefits its much better for a newer player to be practicing macro fundamentals and a standard build order (even if its just for instance 3rax to start). And in terms of having cheese up your sleeve thats fine, but seriously.. you could atleast give yourself a leg to stand on by doing the expo version (sure, this build has high win ratio now but wait till its been around the block a few times). And there are other fine one base plays and all ins that are excellent to have up your sleeve. In TvP i myself used Iechoics Hellion drop into 2Port Banshee for quite awhile to quite good effect, the difference being that it atleast teaches you to properly max out a one base economy while scouting and reacting to your opponent. | ||
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krylon
38 Posts
Most people her are thinking far to much about the specific (garnering quick wins) but not about the general (forcing P as a race to change their early game mindset). Sure if you knonw this build is coming then you have a much higher chance of defending it, lowering the tangible win rate of a T using the build. But the real cost is seen when P are worrying about this build and delaying expanisions, upgrades, or other hits to their macro when the build isn't coming. Sometimes it is the threat of a build, not the build it self that changes the meta game. | ||
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Warzilla
Czech Republic311 Posts
On May 04 2012 00:39 krylon wrote: For everyone complaining about it being mislabeled as a meta game revolution, maybe you don't quite understand. If by reading this guide a certain percentage of Terrans on the ladder begin to use this build with great frequency Protoss in general as a race will have to start playing less greedy. The meta game for P is EXTREME greed because of the strength of getting warpgate JUST in time to start warping reinforcments against pressure builds like 2 rax. Just the potential of an earlier timing attack by T will eventually shift the meta game towards a more defensive protoss early game. Most people her are thinking far to much about the specific (garnering quick wins) but not about the general (forcing P as a race to change their early game mindset). Sure if you knonw this build is coming then you have a much higher chance of defending it, lowering the tangible win rate of a T using the build. But the real cost is seen when P are worrying about this build and delaying expanisions, upgrades, or other hits to their macro when the build isn't coming. Sometimes it is the threat of a build, not the build it self that changes the meta game. Oh yeah extreme greed its not like we are doing 3 nexuses before additional production building and hold fine with it right ? | ||
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n3ac3y
United States108 Posts
On May 04 2012 00:57 YosHGo wrote: Oh yeah extreme greed its not like we are doing 3 nexuses before additional production building and hold fine with it right ? Useless statement. The guy who you tried to mock basically just won the thread and the argument against yourself and the low leaguers. The concept of a build occuring is what shapes a matchup. Scout timings, build orders and responses are all tailored to the fact that these types of builds exist. If your intent is to get up that 2nd nexus you simply shouldn't auto win if someone pot commits themselves to attacking you at that point. There isn't a cheese in starcraft that can kill a well prepared macro-oriented player. Think about for example, the stupid 3-move checkmate in Chess. In SC2, moving pieces isn't accomplished just by thinking, that's why this game is an E-SPORT. You will have to earn a win if a player has a crisp timing dedicated to killing your specific build. That's what makes holding cheeses so exciting on the ladder. The first time you hold a powerfully executed protoss 3 gate void for example, you will truly feel proud of yourself. That, to me is one of the most awesome experiences in my SC2 history: defeating all ins with superior awareness and management, while the other player is simply relying on your failure. It's a good guide, and a good contribution and should not be dismissed because it is a "cheese" build. | ||
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sieksdekciw
240 Posts
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AirbladeOrange
United States2574 Posts
On May 04 2012 01:59 sieksdekciw wrote: This guide is just in time for the changes that come with the next patch. I guess cheese nowadays is the only reliable option to beat toss and zerg. Good guide, I stopped playing forever today because of Blizzards decision to remove terran players from the game for good, but its nice to know that there are still some terrans that try to adapt their game to the screaming imbalance that is toss. However, seeing how things are progressing, this build will soon be outdated cause Blizzard plan for next patch to make barracks build time 120 secs and requiring engi bay. Hahaha. I didn't yet read about Blizzard taking out Terrans from the game. Link please? | ||
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Severedevil
United States4839 Posts
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
On May 04 2012 01:59 sieksdekciw wrote: This guide is just in time for the changes that come with the next patch. I guess cheese nowadays is the only reliable option to beat toss and zerg. Good guide, I stopped playing forever today because of Blizzards decision to remove terran players from the game for good, but its nice to know that there are still some terrans that try to adapt their game to the screaming imbalance that is toss. However, seeing how things are progressing, this build will soon be outdated cause Blizzard plan for next patch to make barracks build time 120 secs and requiring engi bay. I think it effectively removes terran QQ's players cuz my terran master friend is smashing face right now without any cheese and doesnt feel these new changes will do that much | ||
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zezamer
Finland5701 Posts
On May 04 2012 02:18 Severedevil wrote: In my experience, you can do a similar build which is not all-in and is even harder to scout, by going 12/14 rax and only pulling half your SCvs with the attack. That way, you never have to cut SCVs. Isn't half of your scv.s all in. I don't see how you could go back to normal game after loosing that much. | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
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sieksdekciw
240 Posts
On May 04 2012 02:25 SuperYo1000 wrote: I think it effectively removes terran QQ's players cuz my terran master friend is smashing face right now without any cheese and doesnt feel these new changes will do that much I have 2 master terran accounts, both in EU, not in NA, which is kinda different. And I feel that the game is heavily imbalanced in favor of zerg and toss. | ||
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Surili
United Kingdom1141 Posts
On May 04 2012 02:58 sieksdekciw wrote: I have 2 master terran accounts, both in EU, not in NA, which is kinda different. And I feel that the game is heavily imbalanced in favor of zerg and toss. I feel like less QQ would be good for you. If you have stopped playing forever maybe you could stop posting forever too, if that is your mindset :/ Anyway, this build looks hugely annoying, gonna have to start checking my proxy locations again in PvT  | ||
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