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[G] The ultimate TvP all in - 11/11 rax metagame exploitat…

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Adonminus
Profile Joined January 2012
Israel543 Posts
April 26 2012 09:55 GMT
#41
I think that if you chrono 2-3 early sentries, you can forcefield the ramp long enough until the warp gate is done and then use the warp gate to get enough units to defend.
thepeonwhocould
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia334 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-26 10:19:04
April 26 2012 09:57 GMT
#42
The thing is, there is actually a very similar build which has become extremely popular on korean GM ladder in the last month. The difference is, the korean version is not all in. The korean version is 11 in base rax, 12 proxy rax (edit: actually its 14 supply for the second rax. At 12 supply set your CC rally to proxy location). Normal SCV production, bunker at your natural at 24 supply. You push out with about 6 marines and 5 scvs, rallying more marines. (makes Protoss think it is a 1 rax gasless expand). You build the proxy rax somewhere near your main, so it can be floated home after you execute the rush. It is impossible to tell the difference between this build and a 1 rax gasless expand unless you scout the proxy barracks, or suicide a unit past the bunker (even so, maybe your CC is in your base?). You move out at 24 supply, and build a command centre at your natural at 27 supply, then 2 gas and transition.

Here is that build being executed in GSL a few days ago;

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls2/vod/67145 (first game in set so no sub required I believe). NB; he transitions in to a tank attack but that's not necessary, you can transition into a normal 3 rax 1 starport build.

I do believe this build will have a big impact on the metagame, as it means that a 1 rax expand is no longer a safe build for Protoss. I think this build will result in terran getting an earlier expansion than protoss, but previously many protoss could get their natural expansion the same time or earlier than the terran. The key to the success of this build is the fact that it cannot be distinguished from a 1 rax gasless expand. In a best of 5 series, you could alternate between 1 rax gasless, and 11 inbase/12 proxy rax, and the Protoss will never get an expansion earlier than you.

I have been using the build in this video for the last week and it does kill most early protoss expands while securing your own expansion. I recommend players learn the non-all in version of this build as it will help you improve much more.
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
April 26 2012 10:02 GMT
#43
^ You mean, Alives TvP build which he does basically every game on daybreak?
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Chubz
Profile Joined March 2011
France119 Posts
April 26 2012 10:04 GMT
#44
I wonder why i'm all the time in replaypack / guidereplay. w/e i don't think it's a good build if the protoss micro is good enough ( and he is not unlucky like me cf replay :D )
Douillos
Profile Joined May 2010
France3195 Posts
April 26 2012 10:08 GMT
#45
You got day9 with Lastshadows CC into 6 rax, and this..; Man i love terran diversity
Look a giraffe! Look a fist!!
Douillos
Profile Joined May 2010
France3195 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-26 10:13:50
April 26 2012 10:12 GMT
#46
On April 26 2012 18:57 thepeonwhocould wrote:
The thing is, there is actually a very similar build which has become extremely popular on korean GM ladder in the last month. The difference is, the korean version is not all in. The korean version is 11 in base rax, 12 proxy rax. Normal SCV production, bunker at your natural at 24 supply. You push out with about 6 marines and 5 scvs, rallying more marines. (makes Protoss think it is a 1 rax gasless expand). You build the proxy rax somewhere near your main, so it can be floated home after you execute the rush. It is impossible to tell the difference between this build and a 1 rax gasless expand unless you scout the proxy barracks, or suicide a unit past the bunker (even so, maybe your CC is in your base?). You move out at 24 supply, and build a command centre at your natural at 27 supply, then 2 gas and transition.

Here is that build being executed in GSL a few days ago;

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls2/vod/67145 (first game in set so no sub required I believe). NB; he transitions in to a tank attack but that's not necessary, you can transition into a normal 3 rax 1 starport build.

I do believe this build will have a big impact on the metagame, as it means that a 1 rax expand is no longer a safe build for Protoss. I think this build will result in terran getting an earlier expansion than protoss, but previously many protoss could get their natural expansion the same time or earlier than the terran. The key to the success of this build is the fact that it cannot be distinguished from a 1 rax gasless expand. In a best of 5 series, you could alternate between 1 rax gasless, and 11 inbase/12 proxy rax, and the Protoss will never get an expansion earlier than you.

I have been using the build in this video for the last week and it does kill most early protoss expands while securing your own expansion. I recommend players learn the non-all in version of this build as it will help you improve much more.


Thank you, that seems interesting, do you know how much the 12 rax is delayed compared to a normal 12 rax?

EDIT sorry i didnt read properly -_- Do they supply depot scout?
Look a giraffe! Look a fist!!
thepeonwhocould
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia334 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-26 10:18:07
April 26 2012 10:17 GMT
#47
On April 26 2012 19:12 Douillos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2012 18:57 thepeonwhocould wrote:
The thing is, there is actually a very similar build which has become extremely popular on korean GM ladder in the last month. The difference is, the korean version is not all in. The korean version is 11 in base rax, 12 proxy rax. Normal SCV production, bunker at your natural at 24 supply. You push out with about 6 marines and 5 scvs, rallying more marines. (makes Protoss think it is a 1 rax gasless expand). You build the proxy rax somewhere near your main, so it can be floated home after you execute the rush. It is impossible to tell the difference between this build and a 1 rax gasless expand unless you scout the proxy barracks, or suicide a unit past the bunker (even so, maybe your CC is in your base?). You move out at 24 supply, and build a command centre at your natural at 27 supply, then 2 gas and transition.

Here is that build being executed in GSL a few days ago;

http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls2/vod/67145 (first game in set so no sub required I believe). NB; he transitions in to a tank attack but that's not necessary, you can transition into a normal 3 rax 1 starport build.

I do believe this build will have a big impact on the metagame, as it means that a 1 rax expand is no longer a safe build for Protoss. I think this build will result in terran getting an earlier expansion than protoss, but previously many protoss could get their natural expansion the same time or earlier than the terran. The key to the success of this build is the fact that it cannot be distinguished from a 1 rax gasless expand. In a best of 5 series, you could alternate between 1 rax gasless, and 11 inbase/12 proxy rax, and the Protoss will never get an expansion earlier than you.

I have been using the build in this video for the last week and it does kill most early protoss expands while securing your own expansion. I recommend players learn the non-all in version of this build as it will help you improve much more.


Thank you, that seems interesting, do you know how much the 12 rax is delayed compared to a normal 12 rax?

EDIT sorry i didnt read properly -_- Do they supply depot scout?


Sorry I made a mistake when I said 12 rax. What I meant to say was, at 12 supply you set the rally on your command centre to the proxy location. You build the second rax as soon as you have 150 minerals while maintaining normal scv produciton, which is generally at 14 supply. Scout using the scv that builds your first barracks. The scv that builds the second rax should wait until the attack before moving.
Doganaws
Profile Joined February 2011
Italy52 Posts
April 26 2012 11:58 GMT
#48
Hi. Just to know... what happened if P build 1-2 sentries?
-_-
bLah.
Profile Joined July 2009
Croatia497 Posts
April 26 2012 16:07 GMT
#49
small off topic but do you remember the proxy 7rax marine scv build in beta? :'( god I miss these builds

gj with OP, will try this tactics tonight
Breach_hu
Profile Joined August 2009
Hungary2431 Posts
April 26 2012 16:17 GMT
#50
any toss who can count scvs can see that something is going on~
Give thanks and praise!
Qntc.YuMe
Profile Joined January 2011
United States792 Posts
April 26 2012 16:25 GMT
#51
change the title to add 11/11 proxy rax all in please. completely misreading.
bLah.
Profile Joined July 2009
Croatia497 Posts
April 26 2012 16:31 GMT
#52
On April 27 2012 01:17 Breach_hu wrote:
any toss who can count scvs can see that something is going on~


any toss that can use obs can see your build, any toss that know how to micro can beat you, any toss that has good macro can beat you, any toss that knows how to storm/feedback can beat you, boo hoo, that's not the point.

Builds like this are pretty good to have up your sleeve in tournament play and it's good if people refine them (small things like where to put them, what to do in which situation) and explain them on forums
Grampz
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2147 Posts
April 26 2012 16:31 GMT
#53
you make me sick
Breach_hu
Profile Joined August 2009
Hungary2431 Posts
April 26 2012 16:40 GMT
#54
On April 27 2012 01:31 bLah. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2012 01:17 Breach_hu wrote:
any toss who can count scvs can see that something is going on~


any toss that can use obs can see your build, any toss that know how to micro can beat you, any toss that has good macro can beat you, any toss that knows how to storm/feedback can beat you, boo hoo, that's not the point.

Builds like this are pretty good to have up your sleeve in tournament play and it's good if people refine them (small things like where to put them, what to do in which situation) and explain them on forums


i just wanted to say, that the economy variation of this (like mentioned before, Tree vs Brown, Alive using it very often) is better to fake out a 1rax expand, because with 11-11 the toss will know that you are doing this, if he can see your mineral line and counting your SCVs.
Give thanks and praise!
Rider517
Profile Joined June 2011
70 Posts
April 26 2012 22:20 GMT
#55


Hi TL !

I’m here to present you a build that made me enter the Grand Master League at season 2, and kept me at a Top master level so far. This BO is EASY to execute, extremely POWERFUL, UNEXPECTED, provides QUICK WINS and will make you reach an UNREAL WIN RATIO in TvP once you master it.

It works on any map, on any position and beats any Protoss opening. All you need is to execute it perfectly, respect the timing and follow the thought process.



bravo, thank you!
InVerno
Profile Joined May 2011
258 Posts
April 26 2012 22:21 GMT
#56
Bravo Bravo, very insightfull guide, never seen before!
pimsc2
Profile Joined January 2012
France73 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-26 22:31:40
April 26 2012 22:30 GMT
#57
Change that damn title, it's so untrue.
You don't win money for your topic views you know, no need to advertise like that…
NoisyNinja
Profile Joined February 2011
United States991 Posts
April 26 2012 23:14 GMT
#58
Yes, lets all in our way to Grandmasters. Any protoss with a brain and good micro will beat this. The barracks and scv count and timing will tip them off.
storkman
Profile Joined June 2011
United States157 Posts
April 27 2012 01:27 GMT
#59
Terran really is becoming such a sad race
OH YEAH
LiLSighKoh
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States588 Posts
April 27 2012 01:42 GMT
#60
On April 26 2012 15:07 TechSc2 wrote:
so standard marine scv all in....

I really applaud the way you wrote the guide, and you put alot of effort into making it, but...

It's still an marine scv all in that is easy to scout since you make a 11 rax, and the only reason terrans makes an 11 rax is to do 11/11 marine scv all in.

So if a marine pops out before 3:20, you know it's an 11 rax and you can almost 100% sure say there is a second 11, or 13 rax incoming, go 3 stalker rush with chrono spend on gateways instead of warpgate and block ramp with gateways/pylons and start picking off marines.

A standard 12 rax marine could come out around 3:09, not 3:20.
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