[G] The ultimate TvP all in - 11/11 rax metagame exploitat…

coriamon

244 Posts

April 27 2012 02:05 GMT

#61

I don't understand what all the hate is about; the same thing happened when Tang posted his Rushing Relentlessly guide.

A build is a build. It may not be as revolutionary as he thinks it is, but this build does help punish the early nexus builds that Protoss are using nowadays. While it might not be considered "standard play" and might even be considered "cheese," it is nessesary to have ways to counter the greedier players.

Thanks for an insightful guide. Any comments on how to deal with stalkers? Should I try to surround with SCVs or just attack with them? Thanks!

aBstractx

United States287 Posts

April 27 2012 02:26 GMT

#62

its probably scdpride smurfing

Rivkeh

United States58 Posts

April 27 2012 02:30 GMT

#63

First off, everyone's irritated due to the bombastic claim of the title and intro, combined with the language of a ShamWow! commercial and the fact that losing to cheese rubs some people the wrong way. Revolutionizing the metagame, sorry but I doubt it, (its a proxy telegraphed by worker count, not the most impossible thing to spot, and gives you time to cancel that nexus, it'd be more interesting if you kept up worker production until the probe died, imo) but if enough people start doing it we may have to tighten our play up during that first 5 minutes.

As a protoss player, what I find the most fascinating is the win %. Clearly people need to learn to suck it up and pylon scout with every build (other than a wonky 2 gate, I'm looking at you Adelscott), it costs you like 20 minerals compared to gate scout, plus you get to zap scvs for fun and profit. How many games do you lose to cheese because you couldn't react in time? now how many games do you lose cause you're 20 minerals short? and worker count, which I will admit being guilty of. Anyways, it was a surprisingly well written build for an effective strategy, I certainly enjoyed it! I object a bit to the initial claims of revolutionizing the game, but who knows maybe we will see a resurgence of 11 gate builds, but that doesn't undermine the fact that this is a quality bit of cheese.

Warzilla

Czech Republic311 Posts

April 27 2012 03:03 GMT

#64

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN prepare for kiting..... AGAIN

Nice guide btw but it is not rly metagame revolution its just cheesy bullshit(ehm build) reminding me why not to do kcds 1gate fe and rather go for mcs two quick stalkers.

FataLe

New Zealand4528 Posts

April 27 2012 03:10 GMT

#65

On April 27 2012 11:26 aBstractx wrote:
its probably scdpride smurfing

this,
haha by looking at the replays i can confidently say that this build will not revolutionize anything.

dUTtrOACh

Canada2339 Posts

April 27 2012 03:14 GMT

#66

Give this build to someone who doesn't have good enough unit control to make GM, and it could just be a silly all-in where they get crushed horribly. On the flip-side, we all know an 11/11 with a proxy where you pull all SCVs and mine only with MULEs slams a lot of the greedy builds a GM probably runs into; it's truly a deadly timing in the right hands.

As a guide for an 11/11 all-in, this is pretty top-notch, but the "revolution" claim... Not exactly a new build. With respect to OPer's rank, I'm allowing myself to believe, only I'm incapable of using the same build every TvP and thus I will never have a 93% winrate in said MU.

tuestresfat

2555 Posts

April 27 2012 03:48 GMT

#67

On April 26 2012 18:55 Adonminus wrote:
I think that if you chrono 2-3 early sentries, you can forcefield the ramp long enough until the warp gate is done and then use the warp gate to get enough units to defend.

On April 26 2012 20:58 Doganaws wrote:
Hi. Just to know... what happened if P build 1-2 sentries?
-_-

lol you guys think sentries will stop this -.-'

edit:

On April 27 2012 11:30 Rivkeh wrote:
As a protoss player, what I find the most fascinating is the win %. Clearly people need to learn to suck it up and pylon scout with every build (other than a wonky 2 gate, I'm looking at you Adelscott), it costs you like 20 minerals compared to gate scout, plus you get to zap scvs for fun and profit. How many games do you lose to cheese because you couldn't react in time? now how many games do you lose cause you're 20 minerals short? and worker count, which I will admit being guilty of. Anyways, it was a surprisingly well written build for an effective strategy, I certainly enjoyed it! I object a bit to the initial claims of revolutionizing the game, but who knows maybe we will see a resurgence of 11 gate builds, but that doesn't undermine the fact that this is a quality bit of cheese.

The only problem is that will never happen. If anything it's trending towards scouting even later, like on 2nd pylon or cybernetics core.

ColterTV

Argentina163 Posts

April 27 2012 04:11 GMT

#68

I wouldnt be happy even reaching GM with cheesy builds, I want to learn to play the real game.
Thank you anyway, nice detailed guide

kmillz

United States1548 Posts

April 27 2012 04:39 GMT

#69

"
The ultimate TvP build - metagame revolution"

Seriously? I believe it is a very effective cheese but I think it should have been labeled as:

"The ultimate TvP Cheese - Easy wins with marine/scv all-in"

Aelfric

Turkey1496 Posts

April 27 2012 04:52 GMT

#70

On April 27 2012 11:05 coriamon wrote:
I don't understand what all the hate is about; the same thing happened when Tang posted his Rushing Relentlessly guide.

People hate because when they see the "revolution" title they were expecting something about tvp late game solution. Instead they find out it's just another detailed cheese which is ok but doesn't fit the title.

Stoopid0boi

Australia48 Posts

April 27 2012 05:05 GMT

#71

On April 27 2012 12:48 tuestresfat wrote:

Show nested quote +

lol you guys think sentries will stop this -.-'

edit:

Show nested quote +

The only problem is that will never happen. If anything it's trending towards scouting even later, like on 2nd pylon or cybernetics core.

Don't understand what u mean by lol u think sentries beat this... What do you do if they ff the ramp? In the scenario where the toss went zealot sentry sentry, wouldn't it make your attack useless?

Secondly, just want to say one thing about "all in cheesy builds". There was once a time where people played a game for enjoyment. I agree that winning makes the game more enjoyable, but I also say that I like playing the game more than just making workers for more than half the game. I agree this build would be great for a best of x tournament, but how many ppl on tl actually plays in tournaments that don't have a 11/11 build in their arsenal?

oMNY.SEA

Australia47 Posts

April 27 2012 07:15 GMT

#72

On April 27 2012 01:31 bLah. wrote:

Show nested quote +

boo hoo, that's not the point.

Builds like this are pretty good to have up your sleeve in tournament play and it's good if people refine them (small things like where to put them, what to do in which situation) and explain them on forums

So next time your at a tournament and you try the OP's build and your Protoss opponent counts your SCVs upon entering your base and immediately reacts to your cheese and owns you, im sure it will be a great day.

Personally i agree with the idea of talking about/refining builds, but to be honest i dont think the OP really did an awesome job of filling us in on all the intricate details, nor did he even look at current "metagame" (or do any research) to see if there was anything like his current build out there (A detailed guide on the build Alive uses would have actually been great, including -all- the intricacies of worker/marine and bunker micro, etc. Not just the ideas one guy came up with on his own). It also seems like he has no intention whatsoever of even coming back to discuss the build/edit the OP with insights, it seems like more of an attempt at a last ego hit after quitting sc2 than anything else.

Meh, Just Meh.

Rimak

Denmark434 Posts

April 27 2012 08:31 GMT

#73

I think i saw a guide on this build some time ago, it was written by some of our Toss-awesome-guide-writing folks (sorry don't [Remember who).
Tried it, won a couple of time.
It is an all-in, a simple, stupid and pretty much defendable by toss, who knows what he is doing.
I saw a stream of (P)

mTwUnderdark where he defended it with a no-scout 1gateFE.
Also i am not quite sure that this build will make you a overall better player and it doesn't get you to understanding of TvP at all.

But anyway thx OP for your time and effort.