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I just composed this as an email to State of the Game. Hope they address it, but I'd like to hear what the always level-headed and polite TL community has to say on the issue.
I am a father of 2 boys (12 and 8) and we love watching Starcraft casts and tournaments. We watch most of NASL, TSL, IPL and occasionally GSL as well as lots of independent casts and streams. My oldest son and I have attended both MLG Dallas 2010 & 2011.
My question is about maturity level of the casting. Using MPAA ratings for comparison some casters I can count on to use PG language and jokes and some go all the way up to R level (or beyond). I try to learn the various styles and "ratings" for each caster and tournament and filter appropriately. If I know a caster is likely to drop F-bombs I will listen solo or maybe watch it on mute with the kids. Then there are casts that are mostly clean but occasionally use some harsher language or sexually oriented jokes (looking at you Gretorp). Another situation is during post game interviews with the players. 5 seconds into the TSL3 championship post game interview, the F-bomb emerges after a pretty clean cast. I reached for the mute button very quickly. Glad my wife didn't hear it.
I'm not trying to complain or say there should be any censorship, but I would like to hear your discussion on some sort of mechanism for determining what the age appropriateness of specific tournament casts will be. Would it be possible to have some sort of rating system so that when tuning in to watch a tournament I can know that the casters will or will not be using certain types of language?
Another idea is a PG edited version where someone has taken the time to bleep out parts of the cast (like the TV version of an R movie). I'd love to have this for something like the Day9 Daily but I know such things take time and money. Can you imagine an edited version of SOTG?
As esports continues to grow I think this may be a barrier to entry for some like myself who are trying to protect the minds and ears of our little children at least for a few more years. I realize my standards are quite different from many but there are established standards for the major TV networks. Would a model like this help or hurt esports development?
Love to hear your thoughts.
Warsinger
Bronze Division Braxis Zeta
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Calgary25996 Posts
I agree with this and I think it's something all casters should take into account when commentating. More and more these days parents are getting their children involved in watching Starcraft. I think any major broadcast should keep things more or less PG. I still feel like user livestreams and streamed shows should be expected to have mature content.
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I am a father of 2 boys (12 and 8) and we love watching Starcraft casts and tournaments. We watch most of NASL, TSL, IPL and occasionally GSL as well as lots of independent casts and streams. My oldest son and I have attended both MLG Dallas 2010 & 2011.
As a fellow StarCraft 2 fan, I only have one thing to say: Good job - you have my blessings!
To everything else:
I don't know to be honest. On one hand, I'd love to have a more professional approach to the whole casting theme, but on the other hand I also love it the way it is. I definitely follow some of the questions, you raise and agree with them to an extent. I don't live in the United States where everything is filtered and censored, so I don't feel the same way that you do, nor am I as afraid to have my upcoming/potential children to here F-bombs or some stupid jokes, they don't really understand.
On May 25 2011 01:09 Chill wrote:
I agree with this and I think it's something all casters should take into account when commentating. More and more these days parents are getting their children involved in watching Starcraft. I think any major broadcast should keep things more or less PG. I still feel like user livestreams and streamed shows should be expected to have mature content.
First let me say, that I'm not a fan of Gretorps weird and inapproriate jokes, but me not being American and live by your standards, what worries me is how afraid people are of your 12-year-old kid hearing the word 'fuck' or something similar.
An example could easily be Tastosis. I don't think they are inapproriate at all and most times they are often bringing very kid-friendly jokes to the table, but they overstep boundaries as well. But that just makes it more fun to some extent, if you ask me.
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I find it hard to believe anyone will really have an issue with that you have brought up. Knowing beforehand what kind of language is used and them sticking to it I think is the first step. Having edited versions I think might happen but I find it more likely casters should just work on cleaning up the language.
The biggest issue I think is that different places have different standards. Since this is a global thing it is hard to really get a standard of casting or even standard medium of judging the language level of the casts. I assume the only way to do it is take the most sensitive demographic and have that as a "rating" system. So people know exactly what kind of language will be used within the casts.
That being said most casters are very passionate people and certain things might slip during a cast. So it's a hard thing to implement properly for now. I think in time it's a good thing to work towards. I doubt it really has any effect on esports development though. Esports will develop because people are passionate and enjoy it. If people give up on it because of language used within casts then I don't really think they would have helped the growth anyway.
EDIT:
On May 25 2011 01:09 Chill wrote:
I agree with this and I think it's something all casters should take into account when commentating. More and more these days parents are getting their children involved in watching Starcraft. I think any major broadcast should keep things more or less PG. I still feel like user livestreams and streamed shows should be expected to have mature content.
I could be wrong but from what I heard certain demographics take language quite liberally. For instance what jinro and others have said about swearing in Sweden it sounds like a non-issue for children and/or parents. However certain jokes and imagery would most likely be inappropriate so how exactly do you rate something? Personally I find swearing a non-issue but other mature things as an issue but others might be different.
I do agree with you, just wondering what you would call "PG" etc.
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I think you bring up some valid points. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my guess is you're not as much worried about your children hearing certain words as repeating them? In which case maybe you can punish them for using language by not letting them watch certain shows?
The other thing, and this is a huge pet peeve of mine: Violent language vs "offensive" language. There doesn't seem to be much in the complaints about violent or aggressive language used by casters, and I don't personally take offense to it, but it seems much more offensive than various non-aggressive sexual terms that casters used ("The player is getting raped." is both sexual and violent), but I think a lot of the language people get offended by is mostly words that are either sexual words or sexual ideas which is a little silly. I don't plan on ripping someone's arms off at any time in the future, but I'm less so planning on having children by immaculate conception.
Edit:
I also want to briefly touch on ratings. They're never going to be reliable and are mostly a form of censorship. I would much prefer it just have a warning about language used potentially offensive than have an R / PG-13 / PG / G rating system as the former inherently is a form of content control. I guess as long as it isn't legally enforced in anyway and is just a guidance I could be ok with it.
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United States2284 Posts
On May 25 2011 01:09 Chill wrote:
I agree with this and I think it's something all casters should take into account when commentating. More and more these days parents are getting their children involved in watching Starcraft. I think any major broadcast should keep things more or less PG. I still feel like user livestreams and streamed shows should be expected to have mature content.
Pretty much agree with this. The big tournaments(GSL, NASL, IPL, TSL) should try and keep it PG. It's a good thing that parents are starting to watch with their kids, getting a whole new generation into e-sports is always good and casters should accommodate as best as they can.
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I think for something like the Day9 Daily or user streams it would be pretty difficult to censor things. Not only does a user stream have a pretty targeted audience that may prefer harsh language, but more importantly those people are working within the confines of the site they use for streaming. Censoring mid-broadcast on Justin.tv is likely completely impossible.
For large scale productions like MLG or GSL etc I agree that stuff should be kept PG though. I also agree that NASL hasn't tried as hard to achieve a PG rating as they probably could!
I <3 Gretorp and Incontrol, but you guys know it's true 
It is something that is likely to get better over time rather than worse as the game becomes more popular, so I don't think you need to worry too much.
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Gretorp's sexual language should only be picked up by an adult minds filter of what is inappropriate. I doubt that at 12 or 8 years old I would of deciphered or did anything other than giggle when Gretorp keeps these sexual innuendos going.
I'd just stick to watching the big tournaments that are dry, clean and professional. SOTG, Day 9 and any other show like Inside the Game are suppose to be unfiltered and raw/fun/mature.
Just keep watching what you think is safe for your children and if you don't like what you are hearing, send the league and/or sponsors an e-mail telling them about the problem.
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hooly crap guys. he's not asking for parenting advice.
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I think casters should aim for something along the lines of old (old!) episodes of The Simpsons. 'LOL', right? Let me explain:
When I was a kid, I watched The Simpsons. I laughed when Bart made jokes, or when Homer acted like a buffoon. However nowadays when I watch those older episodes, there is just so much subtle, adult oriented humour that I can still find funny.
If you wanna make 'mature' jokes, find ways to slip them in covertly, imo!
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I think most livestreams are going to be caveat emptor type of scenarios but for pre-recorded streams or broadcasts, when the post-production knows the content already, maybe it is sensible to slap a warning before the broadcast or something.
I know Penny Arcade (when they used to do their DND podcasts) used to have "mature language" warnings before the podcasts. Something similar, I imagine, can't be that difficult, no?
From my recollection, I feel like 90% of content out there is PG or PG-13. SOTG, a few streamers/casters (Destiny comes to mind), and a few others are /maybe/ R because of a few f-bombs?
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I think this is probably going to be a NA vs EU issue as it seems Americans and Canadians are more sensitive to these kinds of things. One of the things I like the most is the humor of certain people, and it really detracts from their style if they're forced to sort of put a filter on what they talk about. On the other hand I can understand that a father who enjoys this game doesn't want his kids to be exposed to this kind of stuff, but to be honest starcraft is designed with a slightly more mature audience, it is rated for over 16's (at least in the UK) and most of the audience is in their late teens to mid twenties.
I'd really hate for show hosts to be filtered out because I feel like we lost a major part of their personality.
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I don't care if people swear or make crass sexual jokes or innuendos when I watch anything. If your children are on the internet, they have access to so much fucked up shit that some swearing and smutty innuendo on a SC2 cast or YouTube video is practically harmless.
But if the caster is aiming for a more mainstream audience then you definitely have to mind your language because you're reaching out to an audience of all ages. But I like a solo caster who sticks to his personality more than someone who conforms to etiquette just because people think that some swearing and innuendo means the terrorists have won.
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I really agree with you in the fact that the commentators need to be absolutely professional when casting live events. The NASL seems to be lacking this sometimes when the casters ( sometimes ) go off on a tangent. Although I don't have specific examples I'm sure people know what I'm talking about.
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On May 25 2011 01:16 Demonace34 wrote:
Gretorp's sexual language should only be picked up by an adult minds filter of what is inappropriate. I doubt that at 12 or 8 years old I would of deciphered or did anything other than giggle when Gretorp keeps these sexual innuendos going.
I'd just stick to watching the big tournaments that are dry, clean and professional. SOTG, Day 9 and any other show like Inside the Game are suppose to be unfiltered and raw/fun/mature.
Just keep watching what you think is safe for your children and if you don't like what you are hearing, send the league and/or sponsors an e-mail telling them about the problem.
This. Why don't parents realize this?
Kids don't understand subtext. kthxbai.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Yes, most of the streams ive ever seen or even most of the GOMtv casts of GSL i watched (mainly VODs thought so mybe they edited out any swearing i missed) i havent seen any huge bad language. Ive heard 1/2 swears from tasteless before but nothing bad.
However i do remember a certain jinro in GSL season 3 swrore several times in his interviews lol, was funny though!
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Many casters already seem to be watching themselves when they cast, especially the casters doing the big tournies such as the plott bros, artosis, incontrol and the like.
I think this is a great step for e-sports, and other casters should follow suit. As much as free speech is great, there should be a standard for casters that should allow them to be appropriate for all ages since this is a video game. The days where SC was a cult following is over... now it's mainstream. It's time for the professionals in the business to take notice of who they're talking to and entertaining. =]
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What about an 'explicit' tag like iTunes or something? I agree, although "mature" language doesn't turn me off, If i was watching with my little brother or cousin I'd be grateful knowing a caster wouldn't 'go there'.
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What's wrong with just wearing headphones? or simply not watching it with younger children.
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It is an interesting topic. But i would rather be outside kicking/throwing a ball with my kids.
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EPT
