EPTCasting Language Standards - Page 34
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Rah
United States973 Posts
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
On June 24 2011 05:08 Rah wrote: Is swearing really what you should be worrying about? It's not smart to spend your quality time with the kids watching pro starcraft 2 anyways. If a dad Always had his kids watch NFL games with him for quality time I'd think it would be just as irresponsible. There's more important things you could be encouraging and teaching them. Being a professional gamer is a difficult and risky job. Why would you want to expose your kids to it like it's something they should admire? I enjoy watching pros myself, but I made that decision on my own. Parents pushing it on their kids I think is unnecessary at that age. You should encourage more useful ways to earn Dad's approval. they are kids man, wtf, you act like thats all he does because thats all he said. | ||
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GrimReefer
United States442 Posts
yes sometimes an athlete will curse during a post-game interview, but it's always bleeped and they get fined for it. often times that have to make some sort of public apology. it's time to uphold some standards for SC2. tournament casts should always be PG, and a worry free source of entertainment for parents with young children. | ||
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Charon1979
Austria317 Posts
Its ok for my 8 years old son to watch tiny humans getting torn apart in red explosions of gore, melting down in acid or getting incinerated but its not ok that he could possibly hear the f-word. | ||
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Zironic
Sweden341 Posts
The word used for emphasis doesn't really have any meaning by itself other then the emphasis. While we know that the word 'fuck' means 'having sex' when used straight, we also know that it just means 'emphasis' in all other contexts. "That was fucking awesome" and "That was fragaliciously awesome" (Cursing by proxy) are the same sentence with slightly different sounds. If enough people keep using the same word for emphasis, then eventually it'll just enter the litany of curse words. Because that's what curse words are, words you curse with. Another example to explain how weird this 'curse word' avoidance is from a Swedish perspective is that our two most common curse words are 'Djävlar" (Devils) and "Fan" (The Devil). Now consider that something along the lines of 85% of the population are atheist, these two curse words have -no- meaning whatsoever beyond cursing and emphasis, they are effectively equivalent to "Cursing by proxy". The only thing to keep in mind in my opinion is that regardless of what word you're using for emphasis, overdoing it makes the word lose a lot of its punch. It doesn't really matter if you're saying "That fucking game was so fucking fucked up" or "That fragging game was so fragging fragged up" either way it's a silly sentence. | ||
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Pragmalice
United States7 Posts
In fairness, there are plenty of non-vulgarities that exhibit the same property, but since they don't share the same shock value as vulgarities do they can be honestly addressed in classrooms. The shock value aspect is just the thing that lamentably makes broaching the subject of their improper use anathema in an educational setting. In an ironic twist of fate, proper education cannot take an appropriate place in "correcting" the "foul" language simply because it considers it to be "too foul" to mention. Sheltering (or not) a kid from vulgarities or violence or sex or drugs will all have different underpinnings for their reasoning. To wrap them all up under the same umbrella as being "bad" things for children in general doesn't make it hypocritical for different people to evaluate each one's validity or importance differently. Consider that some people believe that exposure to a bad thing to some degree or another is altogether a good thing in the long run. Keeping a kid locked up in a completely sterile environment diminishes their immune system to the point that they risk serious illness or death if they ever leave that sterile environment, and that theme extends beyond the body's physical immune system to determine the whole range of tolerances exhibited in an individual's behavior. It all boils down to which tolerances a parent (right or wrong) wants to instill in their child; the composite of which determines an entire society's generalized outlook on such things. | ||
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Zironic
Sweden341 Posts
Honestly, the whole basis for shielding kids from vulgarity stems off the belief that it stifles their education in language. Is there a shock factor component? Sure. There are definitely some prudish attitudes that will actually experience physical revulsion upon hearing a vulgarity uttered, and that mindset definitely has it's part to play in "protecting the kids". But the more harmful aspect of many vulgarities, in regards to a child's development, lies in their amorphous and/or ambiguous nature. There are tons of ways to replace or modify a sentence to be riddled with vulgarities and ultimately be unable to actually convey the explicit idea that the speaker/writer is trying to get across.... merely a general sentiment. Does there exist any actual studies on that or is that a post-facto explanation for the puritan behaviour? I have a hard time imagining vulgarities having much of an impact on a childs language development, but I'm not a child psychologist so *shrug* | ||
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Pragmalice
United States7 Posts
There are also studies that stem from a more behavioral aspect, where exposure to vulgarities leads to more emotion-based exposition over fact-based exposition... neither of which is "bad" exposition, however education systems generally prioritize fact-based exposition unless you're doing a specific "arts" lesson like in poetry or story composition. Since this is the case, someone inclined to write/speak based on facts will generally score higher than one who favors emotion... coloring the other study's evaluation on aptitudes to be biased towards non-vulgarity. Aside from the shock factor, it's not that vulgarities are in and of themselves bad things... only that our society, in general, creates an atmosphere where their use is sub-optimal for the education of the child. | ||
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Zironic
Sweden341 Posts
Regardless if you're saying "That's fucking awesome" or "That's super awesome" or "That's fragaliciously awesome" you're still using emotion-based exposition and that's presumably what your child will learn, it'll just be using another word for it. I feel reasonably sure that there are vastly more important factors in determining whether someone will grow up favouring fact-based or emotional-based exposition then whether the emotional exposition is done with curse words or not and ideally aren't most people supposed to learn 'context' and use whatever is the most appropriate for the current situation? You curse when you drop something heavy on your foot or someone particularly mean manages to sneak reapers into your mineral line, you don't curse in your Curriculum Vitae or your research reports. | ||
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Samuel Neptune
United States95 Posts
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Pragmalice
United States7 Posts
On June 25 2011 00:18 Zironic wrote: Though for those purposes it doesn't really matter if you're cussing or not does it? Regardless if you're saying "That's fucking awesome" or "That's super awesome" or "That's fragaliciously awesome" you're still using emotion-based exposition and that's presumably what your child will learn, it'll just be using another word for it. I feel reasonably sure that there are vastly more important factors in determining whether someone will grow up favouring fact-based or emotional-based exposition then whether the emotional exposition is done with curse words or not and ideally aren't most people supposed to learn 'context' and use whatever is the most appropriate for the current situation? You curse when you drop something heavy on your foot or someone particularly mean manages to sneak reapers into your mineral line, you don't curse in your Curriculum Vitae or your research reports. The difference between the 2nd phrase and the other two is that, even though "super" is not a strictly precise word, it is a word that is formally associated with magnitude. "Fucking" and "Fragaliciously" *may* indicate magnitude given the appropriate context, but aren't by definition related to magnitude. "Fucking" could similarly just be equating the awesomeness to that of having sex which is subjective in itself... or it could mean it's a whole lot of awesome.... or it could mean that the complement of something being awesome is merely conciliatory or even derisive. In other words, it is an intrinsically poor word choice because of it's ambiguity. The same could be said for "Fragaliciously" as it is a contrived word that even within the context of a gamer audience could still be misconstrued in different ways. And that really goes for any word that relies upon context that isn't conveyed a priori to the audience. And perhaps the words emotion-based and fact-based are poorly chosen terms, and we should rather phrase them in terms of the pure-ly emotive (i.e. requiring emotive context to decipher meaning) and formal (i.e. leaning on pre-defined formal definitions). One also shouldn't read into it that people that are around vulgarity can't context switch when needed and write equisite formal exposition... only that when you're looking at works from the two extremes one is going to tend to use more formal language than the other more often than not. As it stands, the education system is biased to favor formal communication over emotive for any kind of work outside purposefully artistic bodies (perhaps a failing of our education systems... definitely debateable). And for the record... I don't curse when bad things happen as you assert, though neither do I pass judgement upon those who do as I totally understand it. I do admit to having "fake" cursed on occasion (replacing vulgar colloquialisms with "safe" approximations such as "gosh durn'it!" or "sassafras!"), and know many who ascribe to it as the "proper" alternative to cursing, but more often than not I just react with grunts, groans, or an otherwise contorted, but silent, face. Ya... I know... I'm just weird like that. | ||
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TheGreenBee
64 Posts
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kirdie
Germany221 Posts
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imbecile
563 Posts
Maybe because the swearing culture around here is completely different. Our classics like Goehte and Schiller used swearwords in their writing. And at times when we still had an Emperor revered variety comedians like Karl Valentin could be as foul mouthed as it gets if they wanted to. There are no real language restrictions and banned words on German telvision. That doesn't mean everyone swears all the time. It also doesn't mean there is outrage if anyone does swear. Some channels opt to beep more than others. Some channels don't beep at all. Also the swearing itself is different. The standards are mostly of shit/ass nature. But also a good swearer is not considered someone who can utter the top 7 swearwords as often and with as much emphasis as possible, but usually the one who can create the best and most uniquely fitting and disgusting compounds for which our language lends itself so easily and fruitfully. Little kids often make a real contest out of that. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
Sure, swearing is funny and a quick attention-getter, but if we hold our casters to the standard "be funny and knowledgeable while being safe for cable television", we'll get a lot of improvement in our casting. That said, I don't want mature streams to go away entirely - I'd support some kind of rating system implemented by TL (or even beyond if we wanted to set a standard for all of SC2). Maybe E for casts that are safe for everyone (GSL, most dailies, etc.), T for casts that are mostly clean but contain a few more sexual innuendos/maybe the occasional swear(most streams, TL Attack, NASL, etc.), and then M for the streams that are completely uncensored (Destiny). | ||
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SaYyId
Portugal277 Posts
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On May 25 2011 01:33 jamssi wrote: Only in America would this be an issue. No only in Europe wouldn't this be an issue. You can't publicly have a potty mouth in Korea, Asia, Middle East or anywhere else I've been and I've been all over the world. | ||
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applejuice
307 Posts
but then europeans learn english and don't really understand english swear words, and listen to gangsta rap and hollywood movies, and think it's normal. but it's not really. | ||
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