EPTCasting Language Standards - Page 2
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Aristodemus
England1993 Posts
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MusiK
United States302 Posts
On May 25 2011 01:23 Scrubington wrote: This. Why don't parents realize this? Kids don't understand subtext. kthxbai. This is valid point. Back in the old days when I watched Friends as a 12 year old, I did not understand half the dirty jokes going around, but I was still entertained. Albeit it was also b/c my parents knew no english so I'm sure they didn't pick up on the subtext as well.... hahaha =] But as much as I hate to say it, kids are getting smarter these days. In the near future (or even now) they will pick up on those things much easier due to the mildly censored mainstream entertainment out there. However, if Starcraft 2 wants to provide a medium that is much more traditionally acceptable for families, that would be a huge step in appeasing to the greater portion of the parents who desire to raise their kids in a safer/wholesome environment. I know that plenty of people will argue times are changing and we should get over it... but all I'm saying is that this is my opinion. =] | ||
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TheConquereer
Spain183 Posts
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Derez
Netherlands6068 Posts
On May 25 2011 01:12 MoreFaSho wrote: I think you bring up some valid points. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my guess is you're not as much worried about your children hearing certain words as repeating them? In which case maybe you can punish them for using language by not letting them watch certain shows? The other thing, and this is a huge pet peeve of mine: Violent language vs "offensive" language. There doesn't seem to be much in the complaints about violent or aggressive language used by casters, and I don't personally take offense to it, but it seems much more offensive than various non-aggressive sexual terms that casters used ("The player is getting raped." is both sexual and violent), but I think a lot of the language people get offended by is mostly words that are either sexual words or sexual ideas which is a little silly. I don't plan on ripping someone's arms off at any time in the future, but I'm less so planning on having children by immaculate conception. Isn't the 'violent' aspect just simply the result of watching a wargame tho? All over the screen units, resembling humans, are pretty much getting blown to bits, and I don't see how a 'violent' description of what essentially is over-the-top violence makes any of it any worse. The same goes for offensive language, I mean, you have a problem with someone saying the word 'fuck' in front of your children, but stuff dying is suddenly 'cool'? Casting is as much a game as the actual game, get over it. I think certain casters are more/less prone to use certain words (Tastosis being pretty much the least bad-mouthed of the major ones) and you should be able to trust that, but you can't expect to control what people say in an interview right after a victory. Especially with young players, celebrating a win, anything goes imo. | ||
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Tryxtira
Sweden572 Posts
A very good topic and something that should really be something for every caster out there, heck every communitymember to read! | ||
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Gingerninja
United Kingdom1339 Posts
On May 25 2011 01:23 Scrubington wrote: This. Why don't parents realize this? Kids don't understand subtext. kthxbai. This is true to a point, I mean the simpsons have been using this type of thing for years, that's why its so popular. On one level the kids get it, and on another there's another whole level of Joke the parents can appreciate. I do think keeping bad language ie F-words and the like, kept out of casts can never be considered a bad thing. I think for the most part Day[9] is a lot more PG now than he used to be, occasionally something will slip, but for the most part his dailies are swear word free. Unless used for dramatic effect ie Just go+ Show Spoiler + Fucking | ||
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Rasun
United States787 Posts
It's not just a personal wish either, I absolutely love the idea of parents and their kids watching SC2 together, or maybe the opposite, kids bringing their parents into SC2, and I think keeping tournaments PG makes that way easier. Day9 for instance, he says whatever the hell he wants during the daily and thats totally cool, id be upset if he did censor himself during the daily, but I have never heard him ever use any curse words in a tournament cast (at least as far as I can remember). I think this is how casters should compose themselves. I don't want to call out any casters at all, up until now this would never have been considered an issue in E-sports broadcasting, not in a million years. But I guess things are changing a bit so adjustments need to be made to help facilitate the growth. | ||
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Bergys
Sweden337 Posts
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scur2d2
Canada104 Posts
People doing live streams can do whatever they want | ||
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jamssi
Finland36 Posts
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warsinger
United States17 Posts
I remember a few weeks ago when SirScoots and others were campaigning on twitter to remove the term "rape" from the vocabulary in regards to gaming. I totally can get behind that. We filter our kids' internet usage quite vigorously for obvious reasons. Once something gets into their heads, it stays there for a long time. As they get older, they get better equipped to deal with such things (if I've done my job right) and the sheltering gets less and less. But then this isn't a "How To Parent" thread  "The More You Know..." thx for the discussions | ||
Chill
Calgary25981 Posts
On May 25 2011 01:11 Numy wrote: I find it hard to believe anyone will really have an issue with that you have brought up. Knowing beforehand what kind of language is used and them sticking to it I think is the first step. Having edited versions I think might happen but I find it more likely casters should just work on cleaning up the language. The biggest issue I think is that different places have different standards. Since this is a global thing it is hard to really get a standard of casting or even standard medium of judging the language level of the casts. I assume the only way to do it is take the most sensitive demographic and have that as a "rating" system. So people know exactly what kind of language will be used within the casts. That being said most casters are very passionate people and certain things might slip during a cast. So it's a hard thing to implement properly for now. I think in time it's a good thing to work towards. I doubt it really has any effect on esports development though. Esports will develop because people are passionate and enjoy it. If people give up on it because of language used within casts then I don't really think they would have helped the growth anyway. EDIT: I could be wrong but from what I heard certain demographics take language quite liberally. For instance what jinro and others have said about swearing in Sweden it sounds like a non-issue for children and/or parents. However certain jokes and imagery would most likely be inappropriate so how exactly do you rate something? Personally I find swearing a non-issue but other mature things as an issue but others might be different. I do agree with you, just wondering what you would call "PG" etc. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask casters not to drop f-bombs or other similar words. Outside of that I think almost anything is fine. | ||
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mahrgell
Germany3943 Posts
Why does the language on a stream about 12+ content need to be adjusted for 8 years old? | ||
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Cajun2k1
Netherlands399 Posts
So, those are safe to watch with your children. And it's a great thing you're doing with your kids, it's better then letting them game by themselves. | ||
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
On May 25 2011 01:34 Chill wrote: I don't think it's unreasonable to ask casters not to drop f-bombs or other similar words. Outside of that I think almost anything is fine. It depends on what the caster is doing I think. If its working for a professional tournament (or one that has a broad viewer base and sponsors funding it and whatnot) like DreamHack, MLG, GSL, NASL, TSL then yes they should be expected to uphold professional standards and conduct. If we're just talking about independent casters working on their own projects like Day9 daily, youtube commentary, State of the Game, etc then I think its ridiculous to expect them to censor their language. | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
I guess it's a cultural thing but get worked up over some f-words while watching marines splatter all over the place seems odd to me. | ||
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gun.slinger
Canada258 Posts
If they're too young to understand, they won't, and if they are old enough, they're old enough to understand. | ||
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zasda
381 Posts
On May 25 2011 01:30 TheConquereer wrote: Starcraft 2 is PEGI +16. Haha indeed, such a good point. I personally can't watch a dry "pg" cast except in official stuff like MLG however something like the swedish wcg qualifiers few days ago was so much more entertaining than most of the "ok we official and professional" stuff so meh. | ||
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BlueLanterna
291 Posts
On May 25 2011 01:04 warsinger wrote: I just composed this as an email to State of the Game. Hope they address it, but I'd like to hear what the always level-headed and polite TL community has to say on the issue. I am a father of 2 boys (12 and 8) and we love watching Starcraft casts and tournaments. We watch most of NASL, TSL, IPL and occasionally GSL as well as lots of independent casts and streams. My oldest son and I have attended both MLG Dallas 2010 & 2011. My question is about maturity level of the casting. Using MPAA ratings for comparison some casters I can count on to use PG language and jokes and some go all the way up to R level (or beyond). I try to learn the various styles and "ratings" for each caster and tournament and filter appropriately. If I know a caster is likely to drop F-bombs I will listen solo or maybe watch it on mute with the kids. Then there are casts that are mostly clean but occasionally use some harsher language or sexually oriented jokes (looking at you Gretorp). Another situation is during post game interviews with the players. 5 seconds into the TSL3 championship post game interview, the F-bomb emerges after a pretty clean cast. I reached for the mute button very quickly. Glad my wife didn't hear it. I'm not trying to complain or say there should be any censorship, but I would like to hear your discussion on some sort of mechanism for determining what the age appropriateness of specific tournament casts will be. Would it be possible to have some sort of rating system so that when tuning in to watch a tournament I can know that the casters will or will not be using certain types of language? Another idea is a PG edited version where someone has taken the time to bleep out parts of the cast (like the TV version of an R movie). I'd love to have this for something like the Day9 Daily but I know such things take time and money. Can you imagine an edited version of SOTG? As esports continues to grow I think this may be a barrier to entry for some like myself who are trying to protect the minds and ears of our little children at least for a few more years. I realize my standards are quite different from many but there are established standards for the major TV networks. Would a model like this help or hurt esports development? Love to hear your thoughts. Warsinger Bronze Division Braxis Zeta I'm sorry OP, but I don't see why when the rating system for SC2 determines the game to be appropriate for a "Teen", along with Language as one of the features that prompted that rating, that commentaries need to be separately rated for the "children" who are watching them. This comes with the territory, and if you get your children involved in anything internet-related, they are going to see and hear things that you both know and don't know about. Anyway, they are going to hear this language in a year or two anyway at school, and what is more important than trying to get them to never hear it at all (good luck with that one) is to make sure they understand what it means and why it is not acceptable for them to use swear words themselves. | ||
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emythrel
United Kingdom2599 Posts
I remember when the simpsons was shown after the watershed in the UK, now its shown on saturday mornings, along with Frasier, Friends and a whole bunch of other stuff that would have been considered adult when I was growing up. I've rarely heard swearing in SC2 casts for MLG, NASL and GSL and anything that doesn't fall into that category is not considered to be adult material and doesn't fall under watershed rules. The NASL et al cater to an audience of mainly late teens and adults, its not for children. Anyone from the UK will be familiar with panto jokes like the following: Ugly sister 1: Do you like my new perfume? Ugly Sister 2: ooh, what's it called? Ugly sister 1: It's called "Come to me" Ugly Sister 2: Doesn't smell like come to me, smells more like wee wee The kids laugh at wee wee, the adults laugh at the actual joke. This is the kind of stuff you hear on casts most of the time, if your kids understand the real joke then I would be worried about other things than them watching SC2 | ||
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