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I know this is a slightly silly thread but I could use a bit of advice.
That fear of the 'Quick Match' button in Bronze keeps being re-enforced in this kind of unpleasant way. Literally every on of the last four games I've played on the ladder have devolved to smacking down someone who cheesed or some variety of super-dicey worker combat.
It's gotten to where I'm actually scared of pressing the Quick Match. The most common response is 'Cheese is part of the game. Learn to deal with it.' That's not an answer. That's someone stating something I already know and I know how to deal with cheese. It's simply a very rude and rather nasty way of playing the game which I am altogether hoping that Blizzard fixes.
I don't know. It's gotten to a place where I simply feel silly playing because I'm not improving. Do I have to just keep banging my head against the Bronze wall until I'm into Gold? It's a real grind.
Should I play peak hours to get some weaker opponents? Cheese until I'm out of Bronze? Wait on the obvious patches which will hopefully fix these kinds of things?
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Cheese is part of the game. Learn to deal with it.
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You say you know how to deal with cheese, then why are you afraid to play? And leaving bronze behind doesn't mean you'll never have to deal with it again, you can get proxy-rushed in diamond as well.
If it's a grind and you're scared to play, then just don't do it. Take a break or stop laddering alltogether if it's such an issue for you. Noone forces you to play.
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i think the best way to get out of bronze is to learn how do deal with cheese (or just cheesing yourself untill your out of bronze but i dont recomment that)^^
if you want to play against non-cheese opponents play custom games or play against friends
and by the way: there are also a lot of high diamont players who cheese and im always happy to meet one of them, since they are easy points,since i know how to deal with them
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Aside from the advice given, you just need to make sure you make friends with the people who do give you good games  that way you can keep gaming them later!
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The obvious answer are above; however, an alternative solution could be to find some practice partners and just play a lot of customs to improve. You could you the same practice partners to find out some solid openings that don't die to cheese easily so you can rank up out of Bronze.
If you care solely about improving your game, just find practice partners! ;-)
EDIT: What Plexa said, pretty much... -__-;
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United Kingdom3685 Posts
On December 23 2010 23:21 chessiecat wrote:
It's simply a very rude and rather nasty way of playing the game which I am altogether hoping that Blizzard fixes.
And what would you suggest they do to fix it? Require 2 depots before barracks?
It sounds like you know how to beat cheese but just don't like facing it? In which case, it's a simple matter of beating every cheeser you encounter and moving up the ladder...
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if you think cheese doesn't exist higher up, you're wrong
it's way more refined at higher levels, and probably just as prevalent
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You now need 5 pylons to power a gateway.
Please no, :<
And to solve the issue, I am too quite afraid to press that button, Not because of cheese or anyways. But afraid to lose.
But i think the best way to deal with it, Don't think about it, Just press that damn button and see the outcome of the match as you play it.
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First of all, I don't think blizzard will do anything to fix all those nasty cheesy techniques, but it might even be better like that ^^
Personnally, I hate chesses. I'll tell you something: this days (i'm in silver), I face 2 kinds of people:
-Cheesers (about 50%). I usually lose to those.
-Standard-players (the other 50%) which u enjoy playing with. I win 99% of those.
I've got platinum friends and I beat them all 3-0 mostly in best of three, but if i'm still in silver, it is because of those cheesy players (which I consider noobs because they are afraid to be facing someone better and try to end the game right away).
So, after a lot of thinking, i think that we standard-players (best matches lol) have to practice a lot against all kind of rushes to make them uselees, to bust down nasty cheesers.
Lately I've been breaking down most rushes (6pool, 8pool, voidrays...) but I still lack of defense against some nasty techniques.
Hope you will fight hard against it, good luck and keep playing no-cheese nice games ^^
GL HF mate ^^
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Cheese becomes FUN to deal with when you get the micromanagement skills to deal with it safely, especially in lower leagues, I remember when I was in gold i'd laugh when I got cannon rushed and just use some nice micro, deal with it, and win.
The reason why you're in bronze league is because you're not skilled enough to be in silver, just work at it, the game can't hurt you, cheese is just another strategy. I wouldn't call it rude or nasty, I respect my oponents, if I 6 pool them, it's not my way of flipping them off, it's just a strategy that's a bit of a roll of the dice.
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seriously, why would blizz "FIX" cheese? that's ridiculous. if you don't like laddering anymore, get yourself a practice partner in the bronze-gold area and mass game with him/her to actually get better. that's actually the better way to improve anyways.
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You will never get rid of cheesy play. While you get higher, the cheesy play will be replaced by players who simply seem to overwhelm you with superior economy and units. I think there was already threads about how to deal withthis fear, but here goes anyway.. oh wait, first:
It's simply a very rude and rather nasty way of playing the game which I am altogether hoping that Blizzard fixes.
No it isn't. Why is it rude to attack at 3 minute mark instead of 7 minute mark? When is it "polite" to attack someone? Cheeses are not "rude". They are part of the game and Blizzard said that they want cheeses and rushes to be "shomewhat viable in order to keep the game exciting from the very first moments".
Anyway, about the fear of quick match button:
It seems you are afraid of losing. Why? Losing is learning. After every loss go trough the replay and think to yourself what you should have done differently. If you can't think of what you could have done differently it is because of two reasons:
1)You are blind to your mistake
2)You have a misunderstanding of something. For example: I thought that photon cannons suck and should not be used. Oh boy I was wrong.
To me "tactic X is rude/unfair" or "things Y is imbalanced" are very dangerous thought patterns. They block you from improving "because you are doing everything right, it's that other things fault". No, it is your fault, you are doing something wrong and you should imprive.
No, cheese is not rude. Cheese is risky (for the cheeser), but not rude. Improve. Learn. Don't be afraid to lose, because they are chances to learn. Every loss you can solve brings you closer to a perfect game. You can't even imagine the joy when you finally, FINALLY solve the issue that has been bothering you for so long.
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Well on the bright side facing a lot of cheesers will eventually make you play better under pressure and you'll be able to easier deal with other sorts of harassment that later on will inevitably come your way. Even though it's lame as hell to face proxygaters every second game it will profit you in the end. Other than that you'll unfortunately be forced to suck it up until you reach a level where cheese is more rare. Try to get some practice partners you can practice the later stages of the game with as well =) I'm sure you'll get out of bronze in no time, just play through the cheesers man!
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You shouldn't do any risky buildorders and try to use some safer ones. If you're in the bronze league, you won't get much behind at all if you play a lil bit extra more defensive in the early early game
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Maybe I am strange but I do enjoy playing against cheese (although I never cheese on the ladder). These are usualy the most exciting and challenging micro intensive games. Every little decision counts I can feel the adrenaline pumping .
Sometimes I win and sometimes I lose. If I manage to win I am more happy than winning the standard mid/late game.
Maybe instead of thinkng about cheese as something noobish and bad try to find sometihing good about it.
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I'm slightly afraid of the Quick Match button not because I'll lose or I'm afraid of learning, merely because I'm working long hours this month and I don't play well when I'm tired. I've no desire to play multi if I can't give my all. Last time I went laddering I played a mere two game. The first one I didn't get any early pressure and went two-port cloaked Banshee; destroyed his whole base because he was late on the OC and EB and I killed the EB just as it finished; with the OC he got off one scan which I evaded while decloaking to save energy then came back and murdered it.
Here's where I got stupid: he GG'd and typed "[NAME] has left the game" and I quit out, surprised but quite happy with a win then being very confused when I saw a loss on the score screen. Cue rage. I wouldn't have fallen for that if I'd had my wits about me. The second game I played I just... I was just dumb; I built gas too early, built my OC too late, made nothing but Mariners out of tech labbed Barracks' and didn't get stim or combat shield from the aforementioned tech labs. I rallied my guys to block his natural then knowing he had three sieged tanks I ran straight at his ramp with completely unupgraded and unsupported Mariners. The first Volley went off and I knew it was time to quit playing Multi because I wasn't going to learn anything just being dumb: I know I'm better than that and if my opponents don't have to try to win against me I won't learn from watching them either.
tl;dr Don't play RTS when you're tired
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Learn how to properly identify and defend the following, and you will bounce out of bronze really fast;
vs Zerg;
-5 Roach Rush and 7 Roach Rush (One base, pool then gass then roach warren - all scoutable)
-Speedling Rush (One base, gas then pool - very scoutable)
vs Teran;
-Marine heavy push (Poke the front, you'll see lots of marines)
-Marauder heavy push (Poke the front, you'll see lots of marauders)
-Banshees (Poke the front, you'll see a bunker with little infantry units)
vs Toss;
-Cannon rush (Forge before gateway, pylon near your base)
-Zealot rush (Saved chrono early on, two gates and no gas)
-4 Gate (Stays on one base, chrono used on warpgate tech)
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Every time you lose, you should immediately watch the replay and think to yourself: "next time that I see this, what should I do differently?" Come to a conclusion and then make sure to execute it when you see that cheese again. I often write a sentence or two about why I lost. Right before I play again the next day, I look at what I wrote about my last few games.
The worst thing that you can do after a loss is to blame it on "a noob cheesing" and immediately start another match.
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There are already some good answers here but for my 2c:
Firstly, yes, cheese is a (legit) part of the game.
Second, yes, some people use cheese to climb the leagues cheaply. Whatever.
Third, cheese, definitionally, can be beaten. To do this you need two things. One, you need to have seen it. Two, you need to know what works against it.
You can actually learn these things. Unfortunately, watching pro games won't help you so much with this, because pros don't tend to cheese in bronze/silver level ways. But the fact remains, for every cheese, there is a (sometimes more than one) way of dealing with it. Some hurt more, some hurt less. But they all have effective counter strategies.
Being cheesed can hurt sometimes. Especially in the lower leagues where let's face it it can be pretty common some days.
But think of it as training. Every cheese play you face is a chance to practice your cheese management skills.
Cheese especially in z v z games used to really upset me. Then I got some ideas about how to handle it. Now, I won't say a pray for z cheese - but I do feel I know how to deal with it when I see it, and to be honest most of the time I can win against it now. I expect I will reach that point with the other races standard cheesy plays as well.
So don't give in just because you lose a game or two here or there to a sneaky play. Just think of each as a chance to improve your game.
The frustration is hard sometimes. But honestly, it's just a skill/experience thing. It really is. The more cheese you face, the more practice you get. Eventually you get the hang of it. Sure, any player, even a pro, can sometimes lose to cheese. It's no great thing. But mostly, as I say, once you've seen it enough times, it's not hard to defeat.
So just keep trying! Don't let one game dissuade you! Frankly half of sc2 is just resilience.
GL!
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EPT
