• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:24
CEST 06:24
KST 13:24
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League32Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.164Rollback Netcode in Brood War1295.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202624Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0
StarCraft 2
General
No more sc2 streamers on team liquid? Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.16 Server Blocker SCII needs to put more weight on strategy and tact Terran AddOns placement
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) $3,500 WardiTV Not-Summer Championship
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
[Megathread] Daily Funny Videos BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Rollback Netcode in Brood War Hands of Pluto Mineral gathering rate (boosted) for each patch
Tourneys
[ASL22] Grand Finals [$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread The Chess Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
The Link Between Gaming and …
TrAiDoS
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9741 users

please fix Scrap Station imbalance

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 9 10 11 Next All
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-26 00:01:33
September 22 2010 22:44 GMT
#1
the left position is so much better than the right for zerg, because the creep extends right up to the ramp while the other position is considerably further (enough that spine crawlers on the right cant effectively cover the ramp

Left starting base:

[image loading]

Right starting base:

[image loading]

in zvz especially this is a big deal, as the left side has a much much easier time defending/killing banelings that try to sneak by, while the right side is quite vulnerable to banelings sneaking around. And in general it's just much better/easier for defending your ramp.

also another better effect the left base has is that it only takes 1 creep tumor spread to get down the ramp, while on the right you have to make an extra tumor, just so you can scooch over a couple hexes as it cannot reach down below the ramp

On September 23 2010 08:03 GoSu] wrote:
Also on Scrap Station, the choke leading to the third expansion has issues.
The top left player's choke is much larger than the bottom right player's. Certain FE strategies cannot be done if you spawn top left.

apparently you can easily wall off your choke with 2 buildings at the bottom choke but not the top one. and apparently these sorts of imbalances are a common occurrence in the ladder maps

So please fix it so that theyre equally as close as the left or as far as the right, either one i dont care as long as it's even.
___________________

A map issue posted long ago in beta regarding the imbalance of gas geyser positioning:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=123692
Every time i make my first geyser in every game i always try to pick the one closest to horizontal/vertical from my hatch, unfortunately not all starting locations have balanced gas geysers. i remember one time i forgot and made a diagonally located gas kulas ravine and my gas was noticeably lower/slower
___________________

as someone kindly reminded me, this imbalance also exists on Xel'Naga Caverns (most annoyingly the creep tumor spreading)

Note the radius indicators:
Top starting base:

[image loading]

Bottom starting base:

[image loading]

as you can see by the radius indicator, the top base is guaranteed to get at least 1 shot off no matter how close they hug the wall, while the bottom base you can hug the wall and not get hit fairly comfortably.

you may think, what does that tiny bit matter? well when running pairs of banelings into enemy base (you dont want to have them all clumped or 2 enemy banelings can blow them all up).. 1 crawler constantly poking them as they walk in and the other not being able to reach any at all.. it matters.

And once again the creep tumor imbalance exists here too, it's really annoying. The top base you can spread a tumor below the ramp(both to the west and to the north) with the first spread, but the bottom base is too far so you have to make a tumor just a few hexes over, just so you can spread it down the ramp..making it take at least 30 seconds longer just to spread to about the same place the top base can get to with 1 tumor spread

_____________

On September 23 2010 08:36 Alsn wrote:
There are a bunch of team maps where the spawn locations are bugged as well(ie, your main building is one hex too far away from your starting minerals). The 2v2 map Tempest has the top-mid leftmost spawn misplaced one hex to the east. As well as the 3v3 map Colony 426 where the bottom spawn location is misplaced one hex to the north.

ModeratorBlame yourself or God
birdkicker
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States752 Posts
September 22 2010 22:46 GMT
#2
wow blizzard fails... they should seriously start using iCCup maps.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
September 22 2010 22:48 GMT
#3
This is something that we should really be ramming down Blizzards throats on their own forums.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Moa
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States790 Posts
September 22 2010 22:49 GMT
#4
That is quite a big deal, I'm surprised that is in the game. It seems like a massive oversight by Blizzard to release a game with this large of a map imbalance let alone leave it in.
^O^
Hadraziel
Profile Joined May 2010
Russian Federation114 Posts
September 22 2010 22:49 GMT
#5
I think Xel'Naga Caverns has the same issue of creep spreading.
blabber
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4448 Posts
September 22 2010 22:49 GMT
#6
There was also an issue where one side had to use one more creep tumor to get creep to the bottom of the ramp
blabberrrrr
Dionyseus
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States2068 Posts
September 22 2010 22:50 GMT
#7
The base layout in this map is so different, don't know why it has to be so different. I haven't vetoed this map yet but I constantly think about doing it, the only other map i've vetoed is Desert Oasis.
9/5/10 P acct: NA D 10,683 651pts 69w56L http://sc2ranks.com/char/us/290365/LetoAtreides T acct: NA D 16,137 553pts 70w67L http://sc2ranks.com/char/us/1560008/Khrone Z: NA G 16,058 465pts 28w26L http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/1997354/Omnius
yoplate
Profile Joined August 2010
United States332 Posts
September 22 2010 22:51 GMT
#8
Wow, blizzards map-makers goofed. They really should use those iCCup maps (they look pretty cool)
Foreplay
Profile Joined May 2008
United States1154 Posts
September 22 2010 22:51 GMT
#9
god this has pissed me off for so long. I die inside everytime i have to make a second tumour on top of my ramp like 2 inches from the original.
Better than Pokebunny
Aylear
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Norway3988 Posts
September 22 2010 22:53 GMT
#10
That's a pretty ridiculous map flaw right there.

Remind me again why Blizzard won't let skilled map makers create SC2 maps for ladder?
TL+ Member
dybydx
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Canada1764 Posts
September 22 2010 22:53 GMT
#11
i agree that the difference significant, especially in ZvZ as the OP claims.

i always thought that blizz maps were symmetrical. guess not.
...from the land of imba
Polar_Nada
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States1548 Posts
September 22 2010 22:53 GMT
#12
blizzard needs to make iccup makes official...
[ReD]NaDa and fnaticMSI.SEn fighting~! ::POlar @ UC Irvine::
TheAngelofDeath
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2033 Posts
September 22 2010 22:55 GMT
#13
Wow......just wow.
"Infestors are the suck" - LzGamer
SiguR
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Canada2039 Posts
September 22 2010 22:55 GMT
#14
My only worry is that instead of fixing the imbalance, they will just take scrap station out of the map pool and replace it with something else.
Gecko
Profile Joined August 2010
United States519 Posts
September 22 2010 22:57 GMT
#15
I like scrap station it is a interesting map and leads to macro games. I hope they fix this though, it would suck if i won a match because zerg could not properly defend his ramp from a 4gate
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
September 22 2010 22:57 GMT
#16
Yeah Raelcun has been telling me about this for awhile.

Soon people will realize these maps have no business in tournaments.
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
Kare
Profile Joined March 2009
Norway786 Posts
September 22 2010 22:59 GMT
#17
The same problem is on steppes of war with the hills on the natural.
In life you can obtain all sorts of material wealth, but the real treasure is the epic feelings you get while doing something you love.
LimeNade
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2125 Posts
September 22 2010 23:00 GMT
#18
this is exactly the reason y as a zerg player i never play this map cuz it is a joke in zvz or ZvP when u have to spend extra time gettin an extra tumor on the right to get ur spine placements up, and yes that is valuable time that it takes the creep to spread vs a timing 4 gate push ><
JD, need I say more? :D
Mastermind
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada7096 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-22 23:02:39
September 22 2010 23:01 GMT
#19
You would think Blizzard would measure distances out and make sure all starting locations are symmetrical. Kind of embarrassing for them if you ask me.
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
September 22 2010 23:03 GMT
#20
On September 23 2010 08:01 Mastermind wrote:
You would think Blizzard would measure distances out and make sure all starting locations or symmetrical. Kind of embarrassing for them if you ask me.


Blizzard has made a damn good game but let's be honest, good mapmakers they never have been.
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
1 2 3 4 5 9 10 11 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
08:00
Continental Nation League S1
Liquipedia
BSL Open Qualifier
04:00
Pro & Gosu - Last Chance #2
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
NeuroSwarm 186
Nina 0
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2963
GuemChi 1591
ProTech111
Aegong 60
HiyA 43
Icarus 6
League of Legends
JimRising 764
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox841
Other Games
summit1g8099
WinterStarcraft480
PiGStarcraft286
Livibee188
RuFF_SC241
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick703
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH218
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota236
League of Legends
• Scarra1191
• Rush1080
• Lourlo924
• Stunt237
Other Games
• Shiphtur693
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Weekly
6h 37m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 6h
PiGosaur Cup
1d 19h
The PondCast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
FEL
5 days
FEL
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 22
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
IPSL Winter 2026-27
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.