• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 10:25
CET 16:25
KST 00:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !8Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
When will we find out if there are more tournament ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump
Tourneys
Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings Anyone remember me from 2000s Bnet EAST server? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum PC Games Sales Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1711 users

The Gas Issue, second edition

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-05 20:15:04
May 05 2010 20:14 GMT
#1
Did you notice how a few years ago suddenly all SCBW maps had all the geysirs in main bases either to the top or to the right of the main building? The Gas Issue had been discovered: Other geysir placements would result in less gas per minute if you always used three workers.
SC2 doesn't suffer as much from the gas issue. However, there are a few things worth mentioning.

[image loading]
Without a picture at this spot I'd lose half of my readers.



The Test


I fought a fierce battle with the new Map Editor. The result isn't pretty. But it works (if you know how). I tested 56 geysir positions for all 3 races over 300 game seconds and wrote down the remaining gas for each position. A few calculations later I designed a bunch of fancy pictures in MSPaint.


The Results


The first result is that all three races mine gas at the same speed. This was not the case in SCBW.

The other results will be supported by pictures. The big blue square is your townhall. The light blue area around it is the area that cannot have any resources in it. The small colorful squares each represent the center of a geysir. A full geysir would cover an area of 3x3 squares.

[image loading]
Relative mining rates with 3 workers.


This picture displays the the mining rate for three workers per geysir relative to the absolute maximum mining rate. As you can see there are barely any differences. Geysirs in diagonal positions already look a bit suspicious though.

[image loading]
Relative mining rates with 2 workers.


Who says that you have to put three workers on gas all the time? As you can see, you can harvest with up to 79% of the maximum mining rate with only two workers. You have to be careful though, because the mining rates of some positions are much worse than others.

[image loading]
Mining rates with 2 workers, relative to the mining rates with 3 workers.


If we compare the mining rates with two workers to the mining rates with three workers, the results are not as bad. And in fact this is all that counts when you have to decide if you put two or three workers on a geysir. Unless you are considering using a fourth worker.


Ladder Maps

[image loading]
Indexing the positions.


Before I can talk about the maps, I need a way to reference geysir positions. We start from the red square with the number 1 and go clockwise around the townhall until we reach number 56.

+ Show Spoiler [Blistering Sands] +

Top right:
52 (top), a bad position
19 (bottom), bad for two workers

Bottom left:
47 (top), bad for two workers
24 (bottom), bad for two workers


+ Show Spoiler [Desert Oasis] +

Top:
45 (top), a good position
41 (bottom), a good position

Bottom:
13 (top), a good position
17 (bottom), a good position


+ Show Spoiler [Incineration Zone] +

Left:
1 (top), a good position
30 (bottom), a good position

Bottom:
43 (left), a good position
15 (right), a good position


+ Show Spoiler [Kulas Ravine] +

Top left:
43 (top), a good position
36 (bottom), bad for two workers

Top right:
15 (top), a good position
22 (bottom), a bad position

Bottom left:
50 (top), a bad position
43 (bottom), a good position

Bottom right:
8 (top), bad for two workers
15 (bottom), a good position


+ Show Spoiler [Lost Temple] +

Left:
55 (top), a good position
31 (bottom), a good position

Top:
45 (left), a good position
13 (right), a good position

Right:
3 (top), a good position
27 (bottom), a good position

Bottom:
41 (left), a good position
17 (right), a good position


+ Show Spoiler [Metalopolis] +

Left:
38 (top), a bad position
32 (bottom), a good position

Top:
8 (top), bad for two workers
13 (bottom), a good position

Right:
4 (top), a good position
10 (bottom), a bad position

Bottom:
41 (top), a good position
36 (bottom), bad for two workers


+ Show Spoiler [Scrap Station] +

Top:
54 (top), a good position
19 (right), bad for two workers

Right:
53 (top), bad for two workers
18 (right), a good position


+ Show Spoiler [Steppes of War] +

Top:
53 (top), bad for two workers
18 (right), a good position

Bottom:
46 (left), a good position
25 (bottom), bad for two workers



Conclusion


In SC2 the Gas Issue is much less problematic than in SCBW. It still is something you might want to keep in mind, especially if you consider using less than three workers on gas. Which was my main motivation for this research; it will come in handy for a build I am currently working on.
SC2 map makers should also be aware of these results. You only have to avoid a few positions in SC2, in SCBW you had to avoid all positions except for two.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
ilovejonn
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Canada2548 Posts
May 05 2010 20:21 GMT
#2
Woah thanks.
Snowflakes in January, Heart warm like February, I wouldn't ordinarily..
Erucious
Profile Joined March 2010
Norway393 Posts
May 05 2010 20:26 GMT
#3
Great work! Not sure what i personally would do with this info, but good work nonetheless!
I'm Norwegian/Dutch. Just the awesome parts of them though :D
Grhym
Profile Joined April 2010
177 Posts
May 05 2010 20:27 GMT
#4
Woah I'd never know if it weren't for this, great post
あ
MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
May 05 2010 20:30 GMT
#5
great post, proven that the ai is very strong and all that matters is the distance and not some stupid "on top of cc or left side of cc" which u had to think of in sc1
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
zealing
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada806 Posts
May 05 2010 20:30 GMT
#6
"Without a picture at this spot I'd lose half of my readers."

YOU SIR........ARE A GENNIUS!!!

but serious dude man nice work this must have taken like a while or something.

gg ty
Think you got lag? It took Jesus 3 days to respawn.
Bensio
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom621 Posts
May 05 2010 20:31 GMT
#7
Very nice work!
Thamoo
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada234 Posts
May 05 2010 20:31 GMT
#8
Never place 2 workers on gaz on blistering sand!
wat?
Jarvs
Profile Joined December 2009
Australia639 Posts
May 05 2010 20:32 GMT
#9
Wow, this is so incredibly indepth and useful. To find out that not all spawns were created equal in SC2 did surprise me.
ZeroCartin
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Costa Rica2390 Posts
May 05 2010 20:33 GMT
#10
Awesome 1000th post Thanks alot!
"My sister is on vacation in Costa Rica right now. I hope she stays a while because she's a miserable cunt." -pubbanana
coltrane
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Chile988 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-05 20:35:57
May 05 2010 20:33 GMT
#11
This was surprisingly simple to follow. You did an excellent job. Thank you so much for your effort.


On May 06 2010 05:32 Jarvs wrote:
Wow, this is so incredibly indepth and useful. To find out that not all spawns were created equal in SC2 did surprise me.



Actually, I like it much, knowing for sure that the core of the game is in some sort not perfect, so we can discover many things designers never thought about. That only adds complexity and creativity to the game.
Jävla skit
Clearout
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway1060 Posts
May 05 2010 20:35 GMT
#12
"Without a picture at this spot i'd lose half my readers" Made me lol
really?
pyr0ma5ta
Profile Joined May 2010
United States458 Posts
May 05 2010 20:37 GMT
#13
Good to know.
"I made you a zergling, but I eated it." - Defiler
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25990 Posts
May 05 2010 20:39 GMT
#14
Wow this is really interesting. Thanks!
Moderator
Razamataz
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada135 Posts
May 05 2010 20:42 GMT
#15
I love threads like this. Thank you for taking the time!
tyCe
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia2542 Posts
May 05 2010 20:51 GMT
#16
Thanks for a great thread!
Betrayed by EG.BuK
Bob300
Profile Joined April 2010
United States505 Posts
May 05 2010 20:53 GMT
#17
The picture kept me from leaving. Great Work cause in some cases i only use 3 on 1 geyser and 2 on the other.
NYC Suburbs --- College Freshman --- Season 1 - Drone Whiskey
Slunk
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany768 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-05 20:54:37
May 05 2010 20:54 GMT
#18
Interesting topic, thank you.
kickinhead
Profile Joined December 2008
Switzerland2069 Posts
May 05 2010 20:55 GMT
#19
AWESOME - thx for the effort!
https://soundcloud.com/thesamplethief
Lao Xuin
Profile Joined March 2010
United States24 Posts
May 05 2010 20:57 GMT
#20
I thank you for the information you have shared us. Keep up the good work!
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
SC Evo League
12:30
#18
LiquipediaDiscussion
WardiTV 2025
11:00
Playoffs
Solar vs herOLIVE!
Classic vs TBD
TBD vs Clem
WardiTV1749
ComeBackTV 1294
TaKeTV 502
IndyStarCraft 274
Rex153
CosmosSc2 91
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko513
IndyStarCraft 274
Rex 153
CosmosSc2 91
ProTech3
StarCraft: Brood War
EffOrt 1224
Stork 839
firebathero 358
Leta 291
ggaemo 230
Last 156
Larva 126
Bonyth 83
ajuk12(nOOB) 46
Mong 40
[ Show more ]
ToSsGirL 33
zelot 33
Shinee 29
Yoon 22
Rock 16
yabsab 15
SilentControl 10
Shuttle 9
ivOry 9
Terrorterran 8
Stormgate
BeoMulf90
Dota 2
Gorgc6413
singsing4438
qojqva2134
XcaliburYe170
BananaSlamJamma116
syndereN95
LuMiX1
League of Legends
rGuardiaN78
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor389
Liquid`Hasu241
Other Games
B2W.Neo1661
Pyrionflax463
Hui .307
Liquid`VortiX147
crisheroes122
XaKoH 111
KnowMe84
QueenE64
Trikslyr23
Organizations
Other Games
PGL1292
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• C_a_k_e 1986
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki15
• Michael_bg 2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV381
League of Legends
• Jankos2032
• Nemesis1774
Upcoming Events
Ladder Legends
3h 35m
BSL 21
4h 35m
Sziky vs Dewalt
eOnzErG vs Cross
Sparkling Tuna Cup
18h 35m
Ladder Legends
1d 1h
BSL 21
1d 4h
StRyKeR vs TBD
Bonyth vs TBD
Replay Cast
1d 17h
Wardi Open
1d 20h
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 1
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.