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Active: 2165 users

The Gas Issue, second edition

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-05 20:15:04
May 05 2010 20:14 GMT
#1
Did you notice how a few years ago suddenly all SCBW maps had all the geysirs in main bases either to the top or to the right of the main building? The Gas Issue had been discovered: Other geysir placements would result in less gas per minute if you always used three workers.
SC2 doesn't suffer as much from the gas issue. However, there are a few things worth mentioning.

[image loading]
Without a picture at this spot I'd lose half of my readers.



The Test


I fought a fierce battle with the new Map Editor. The result isn't pretty. But it works (if you know how). I tested 56 geysir positions for all 3 races over 300 game seconds and wrote down the remaining gas for each position. A few calculations later I designed a bunch of fancy pictures in MSPaint.


The Results


The first result is that all three races mine gas at the same speed. This was not the case in SCBW.

The other results will be supported by pictures. The big blue square is your townhall. The light blue area around it is the area that cannot have any resources in it. The small colorful squares each represent the center of a geysir. A full geysir would cover an area of 3x3 squares.

[image loading]
Relative mining rates with 3 workers.


This picture displays the the mining rate for three workers per geysir relative to the absolute maximum mining rate. As you can see there are barely any differences. Geysirs in diagonal positions already look a bit suspicious though.

[image loading]
Relative mining rates with 2 workers.


Who says that you have to put three workers on gas all the time? As you can see, you can harvest with up to 79% of the maximum mining rate with only two workers. You have to be careful though, because the mining rates of some positions are much worse than others.

[image loading]
Mining rates with 2 workers, relative to the mining rates with 3 workers.


If we compare the mining rates with two workers to the mining rates with three workers, the results are not as bad. And in fact this is all that counts when you have to decide if you put two or three workers on a geysir. Unless you are considering using a fourth worker.


Ladder Maps

[image loading]
Indexing the positions.


Before I can talk about the maps, I need a way to reference geysir positions. We start from the red square with the number 1 and go clockwise around the townhall until we reach number 56.

+ Show Spoiler [Blistering Sands] +

Top right:
52 (top), a bad position
19 (bottom), bad for two workers

Bottom left:
47 (top), bad for two workers
24 (bottom), bad for two workers


+ Show Spoiler [Desert Oasis] +

Top:
45 (top), a good position
41 (bottom), a good position

Bottom:
13 (top), a good position
17 (bottom), a good position


+ Show Spoiler [Incineration Zone] +

Left:
1 (top), a good position
30 (bottom), a good position

Bottom:
43 (left), a good position
15 (right), a good position


+ Show Spoiler [Kulas Ravine] +

Top left:
43 (top), a good position
36 (bottom), bad for two workers

Top right:
15 (top), a good position
22 (bottom), a bad position

Bottom left:
50 (top), a bad position
43 (bottom), a good position

Bottom right:
8 (top), bad for two workers
15 (bottom), a good position


+ Show Spoiler [Lost Temple] +

Left:
55 (top), a good position
31 (bottom), a good position

Top:
45 (left), a good position
13 (right), a good position

Right:
3 (top), a good position
27 (bottom), a good position

Bottom:
41 (left), a good position
17 (right), a good position


+ Show Spoiler [Metalopolis] +

Left:
38 (top), a bad position
32 (bottom), a good position

Top:
8 (top), bad for two workers
13 (bottom), a good position

Right:
4 (top), a good position
10 (bottom), a bad position

Bottom:
41 (top), a good position
36 (bottom), bad for two workers


+ Show Spoiler [Scrap Station] +

Top:
54 (top), a good position
19 (right), bad for two workers

Right:
53 (top), bad for two workers
18 (right), a good position


+ Show Spoiler [Steppes of War] +

Top:
53 (top), bad for two workers
18 (right), a good position

Bottom:
46 (left), a good position
25 (bottom), bad for two workers



Conclusion


In SC2 the Gas Issue is much less problematic than in SCBW. It still is something you might want to keep in mind, especially if you consider using less than three workers on gas. Which was my main motivation for this research; it will come in handy for a build I am currently working on.
SC2 map makers should also be aware of these results. You only have to avoid a few positions in SC2, in SCBW you had to avoid all positions except for two.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
ilovejonn
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Canada2548 Posts
May 05 2010 20:21 GMT
#2
Woah thanks.
Snowflakes in January, Heart warm like February, I wouldn't ordinarily..
Erucious
Profile Joined March 2010
Norway393 Posts
May 05 2010 20:26 GMT
#3
Great work! Not sure what i personally would do with this info, but good work nonetheless!
I'm Norwegian/Dutch. Just the awesome parts of them though :D
Grhym
Profile Joined April 2010
177 Posts
May 05 2010 20:27 GMT
#4
Woah I'd never know if it weren't for this, great post
あ
MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
May 05 2010 20:30 GMT
#5
great post, proven that the ai is very strong and all that matters is the distance and not some stupid "on top of cc or left side of cc" which u had to think of in sc1
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
zealing
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada806 Posts
May 05 2010 20:30 GMT
#6
"Without a picture at this spot I'd lose half of my readers."

YOU SIR........ARE A GENNIUS!!!

but serious dude man nice work this must have taken like a while or something.

gg ty
Think you got lag? It took Jesus 3 days to respawn.
Bensio
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom621 Posts
May 05 2010 20:31 GMT
#7
Very nice work!
Thamoo
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada234 Posts
May 05 2010 20:31 GMT
#8
Never place 2 workers on gaz on blistering sand!
wat?
Jarvs
Profile Joined December 2009
Australia639 Posts
May 05 2010 20:32 GMT
#9
Wow, this is so incredibly indepth and useful. To find out that not all spawns were created equal in SC2 did surprise me.
ZeroCartin
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Costa Rica2390 Posts
May 05 2010 20:33 GMT
#10
Awesome 1000th post Thanks alot!
"My sister is on vacation in Costa Rica right now. I hope she stays a while because she's a miserable cunt." -pubbanana
coltrane
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Chile988 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-05 20:35:57
May 05 2010 20:33 GMT
#11
This was surprisingly simple to follow. You did an excellent job. Thank you so much for your effort.


On May 06 2010 05:32 Jarvs wrote:
Wow, this is so incredibly indepth and useful. To find out that not all spawns were created equal in SC2 did surprise me.



Actually, I like it much, knowing for sure that the core of the game is in some sort not perfect, so we can discover many things designers never thought about. That only adds complexity and creativity to the game.
Jävla skit
Clearout
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway1060 Posts
May 05 2010 20:35 GMT
#12
"Without a picture at this spot i'd lose half my readers" Made me lol
really?
pyr0ma5ta
Profile Joined May 2010
United States458 Posts
May 05 2010 20:37 GMT
#13
Good to know.
"I made you a zergling, but I eated it." - Defiler
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25988 Posts
May 05 2010 20:39 GMT
#14
Wow this is really interesting. Thanks!
Moderator
Razamataz
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada135 Posts
May 05 2010 20:42 GMT
#15
I love threads like this. Thank you for taking the time!
tyCe
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia2542 Posts
May 05 2010 20:51 GMT
#16
Thanks for a great thread!
Betrayed by EG.BuK
Bob300
Profile Joined April 2010
United States505 Posts
May 05 2010 20:53 GMT
#17
The picture kept me from leaving. Great Work cause in some cases i only use 3 on 1 geyser and 2 on the other.
NYC Suburbs --- College Freshman --- Season 1 - Drone Whiskey
Slunk
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany768 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-05 20:54:37
May 05 2010 20:54 GMT
#18
Interesting topic, thank you.
kickinhead
Profile Joined December 2008
Switzerland2069 Posts
May 05 2010 20:55 GMT
#19
AWESOME - thx for the effort!
https://soundcloud.com/thesamplethief
Lao Xuin
Profile Joined March 2010
United States24 Posts
May 05 2010 20:57 GMT
#20
I thank you for the information you have shared us. Keep up the good work!
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