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PvZ on LT and similar land maps is one of the deepest, most theorized matchups with the most nuances and tricks. Still, it has certain patterns that show through in 80% or more of the good games. After all the rushing, the early harrassments, and the initial thrusts are over, those games that go on see a stabilization as the players secure an expansion or three and build up. I've noticed that the path the game takes has changed over the years.
The Old Mainline: Zealots + Templar vs. Mass Hydra
In the old days, this is what the game would ALWAYS boil down to. You would see the Zerg massing loads of hydras as he expanded and tried to contain the Protoss, until the Protoss is able to finally break out with speedy Zealots and upgraded Templar. The winner of these games was usually the one still standing after the Storm Dance, in which the Protoss attempts to net dozens of hydras with storm and trap them with the speedy zeals, while the Zerg dodges storms and wujins just out of distance time and again with his Hydras, depleting the Protoss Zealots and draining the energy from the Templar.
Resources:
Here is an example of this strategy in an old, pre-replay game between Tillerman and OrkyPriest in this classic battlereport.
A highly entertaining BR demonstrating the power of storm vs. mismanaged hydras, and what not to do vs. 1-base mass hydras.
Trends: The strategy of massing hydras fell into relative disuse shortly following the release of patch 1.09, the +20 HP of the Zealots dramatically increasing their use against Hydralisks. (Thanks Monsen).
However, this strategy is still viable; although the fact that Mass Hydras isn't as effective as it used to be is a definite turn-off for Zerg users, it is still close enough that something like Queens with Ensnare or other slight improvements could make it a force to be reckoned with again. (Thanks Ahk-Gosu)
The Newer Main Line: Lurker Containment. With the weakening of storm to take two hits instead of one against a Lurker, along with Zealots becoming more effective vs. Hydralisks, Zerg began to use those buried devils more often. Soon we began to see even newbies containing the Protoss with lurks. Zergs would then take all the expansions on the map or, especially against weaker players, would actually put a hatch outside the 'toss base and set up a containment of Terran quality with Sunks, Hydras, Zerglings and Lurkers.
The theory of this strategy developed quickly as Zerg began employing Scourge for anti-observer duty and many Protoss players, pro and fan alike, fell to this choking strategy; here, the Protoss would seem to be at an immediate disadvantage due to the containment and the map control of the Zerg.
Reacting to pure Lurker Containment:
fOru vs. Yellow, KPGA 2002.
The Execution: Ultra/Ling. I remember the old days when no one even considered using Ultralisk against Protoss. It was considered useless; you just couldn't win efficiently in a melee fight against 'Toss Zealots, Archons, and Dark Templar. Then someone -- anyone know who/when? -- discovered Ultra/ling. This strategy uses the massive economy advantage which Zerg would so often acquire to crank out fully upgraded Zerglings and Ultralisk and overwhelm the Protoss -- for it was found that these two together could deal out massive amounts of damage and that, while both nearly useless on their own, together they magically created an unstoppable juggernaut. The Ultralisks would easily soak-up and shrug off the Storm's that formerly laid waste to fields of Zerglings and the Zerglings would deal the damage to tear down the Archons and Zealots that would beat the Ultras before.
This "strategy" is in the same category with Protoss mass Carriers: usually an instant win. However, there is a significant difference: Ultra/Ling is both faster and cheaper and, while Carriers leaves the Protoss vulnerable while he still only has a few, any weakness in Ultra/Ling is much less obvious. The only requirement is that the Zerg gets his three working gas bases (and these days, Zerg has been pushing it to even less!).
Countering Ultra/Crackling
First off, everyone should familiarize themselves with Giyom's famous game against LeeChangHoon, one of SC Legacy's Pimpest Plays 2003. He counters beautifully, primarily with Archons and Maelstrom.
Bets, anyone? What are the next up-and-coming trends and strategic "fashions" in the PvZ matchup on regular maps? What are you beginning to see more?
Personally, I think that Reaver + Goon is a definite candidate for up-and-comer. Check it out:
One instructive game.
The official TL.net thread on the matter 
The Point: Post here the tactics and tricks that are required to play these matchups, for both sides. Post the nuances that can turn the tides of a game. Post your questions and problems in these situations.
But, most importantly, post replays that demonstrate what to do, what to watch out for, and what not to do. I have access to webspace, so you only need to send me the replays. You can contact me via PM. I request that the replays meet these criteria:
- High-Level Games (well known players)
- Demonstrate high-level execution of the strategy by the Zerg.
- Demonstrate high-level defense by the Protoss
Replays that also illustrate a key mistake, such as getting storm too late, or going ultra/ling too soon, etc, are also valuable to me.
I will update this post with information and links when possible.
Here is an excellent discussion on the value of units, applicable to all matchups.
General PvZ Tips:
BigBalls Tips
FrozenArbiters Tips
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i am making fries
fries are good
i like to eat fries
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Ah I have been graced with a post from the great Casper...!
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i like fries too
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This old post is unavailable due to an encoding issue. Please contact an admin if you would like this post restored for historical reasons.
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MassHydra disappeared after the Zeals got +20 armor -20 shield... should still work to some extend (ensnare gogogo)
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On October 22 2004 09:45 ShadowMaster wrote:
Finally, a little question: why has mass hydra become so much less common? Is it just because Lurker containment seems to promise more?
i find that whenever i go mass hydra, those hydra just get raped by speedlot and storm and dont accomplish anything..
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Pretty neat thread. Aesthetically very pleasing.
Lurker containment has been in use for a long time too; Nazul beat Grrr... (4-0?) by lurker containing every game, and that was in 2001.
http://www.battlereports.com/viewreplays.php?replaynum=3371
But I have noticed, like you have, that lurkers are almost always seen in any zvp lately. I guess the reason is that, on LT at least, it very rarely loses, while the increasing skill of toss players was destroying mass hydra. Players like IntoTheRain with his perfect storms probably contributed. The Kwakka vs Jju game is a decent example, i guess.
This is what I think.
That is all.
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Thankyou Monsen. I'd forgotten that the patch affected the Zealot vs. Hydra matchup so much. Also thanks to Choader for those references; that's exactly what I'm looking for!
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im seeing less contain zergs. and mostly of they contain its pretty ez to break out with good storm obs use
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On October 22 2004 11:17 SW)Surv wrote:
im seeing less contain zergs. and mostly of they contain its pretty ez to break out with good storm obs use
At what level of competition are you seeing this, and do you have any good replays of "easy" breakouts?
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Sweden33719 Posts
All levels I would assume, the pros do, others follow :O
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On October 22 2004 11:26 FrozenArbiter wrote:
All levels I would assume, the pros do, others follow :O
My question was directed at whether he was observing this in his own games, or watching the pros. Since I don't yet seem to have VOD priveleges here, I'm a bit out of the pro loop. Also, I haven't seen any main-line PvZ games in a long time -- Protoss have been going out of their way to play bizarre openings and otherwise they play strange maps that don't allow "normal" games. I guess it's better for the observers. Any examples of modern "main line"?
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On October 22 2004 11:17 SW)Surv wrote:
im seeing less contain zergs. and mostly of they contain its pretty ez to break out with good storm obs use
That's true too. I've noticed that much more often these days the zerg will just set up a token contain to buy him sometime to secure his min only and another main or islands or (at 12) a second min only. Since it's hard for toss to expand to another main anyway, this is at least as effective.
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On October 22 2004 12:20 choader wrote: Show nested quote +On October 22 2004 11:17 SW)Surv wrote:
im seeing less contain zergs. and mostly of they contain its pretty ez to break out with good storm obs use That's true too. I've noticed that much more often these days the zerg will just set up a token contain to buy him sometime to secure his min only and another main or islands or (at 12) a second min only. Since it's hard for toss to expand to another main anyway, this is at least as effective.
Excellent I would love it if someone had a few pro replays of Protoss easily breaking out. Thanks.
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I think what he means by less contain is. They get only 4 lurks or so. Just enough to hold the choke. Then tech of to hive and have mass lings. Possibly mutts or muta, but normally just lings.
Then they mass expo and get a few scourge. They just slow you with the minimal input and force you to get obs, goon range, etc. This places the added burden on the toss player to figure out exactly how many goons/whatever is necessary. If the toss gets too much anti-lurk stuff he will die vs the mass lings, probably cracks with 1/1 and 2/2 on the way. On a side note, vs ling/lurk, mass archon and zeals and just a few temps is the way to go
Your from old time BR.com arent you shadowmaster? The name seems almost familiar, plus you take time and effort in your posts. Something thats rare now 
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Game Analysis: fOru vs Yellow, River of Flames, KPGA 2002 (1.09).
Category: Defense against Lurker Containment
Replay: http://yaoyuan.com/show.php?SID=11590
Particular Points of Interest:
- Pressure-expanded, an important tactic. He made a point of attacking before/during his expansion attempts, keeping Yellow busy and covering himself. Notice that he lost more zealots than needed with his first attempt, which delayed his initial expansion.
- Sparing use of Cannons. He did not make "cannon grids"; he would only use single cannons, for detection and delay purposes.
- Did not attempt to expand against the Lurkers until he had observers, which he started as soon as he saw the first lurk eggs.
- Made sparing use of Psi storm. He usually only had a single Templar.
- his typical attack force was 1 templar, 1 archon, and zealgoon.
- Once he scouted lurker his zeal-goon was a 1:1 ratio (after he bungled the 4 zealots on his first failed attack).
- He completely breaks out at ~10 goons, 10 zeals, and expands IMMEDIATELY while applying pressure.
- He plays the first half of the game great and the second half awfully (not that I could do better).
fOru employs an excellent, solid templar-tech build against Yellow's 2 hatch in-base, 3 exp lurker build. Notice that he hides his probe and is aware of the Zerg tech choice (i.e- no spire).
Places 1 cannon at minerals, more for emergency detection or delay than actual defense.
Prepares to expand at 10 zealots (48 psi), first placing a cannon near his expansion;
NOTICE: As he is preparing to expand, he moves out with attack force (10 zeal, 1 goon),
psychologically covering his expansion by pressuring the Zerg and "distracting" him.
From an economical standpoint the attack fails miserably as he loses 4 zealots
with no damage done. However, it reveals several lurker eggs hatching and this prompts
him to immediately start a Robo Fac and delay his expansion. He also places down another
gateway. Notice that he doesn't begin the storm upgrade until after the Robo, and he makes
an archon before storm.
1 DT for scout/defence, 4 gateways BEFORE exp in light of the containment,
delaying his exp anyway.
Finally gets exp going at 56 psi, when his observer is finished. Clears it with his force of
6 zeals, 1 goon, 1 templar, 1 DT.
Keeps 1 Archon with his attack force at all times and switches to zeal production until
second gas is up.
Notice very sparing use of Cannons.
Once 2nd gas is up and has ~10 zealots, 1 archon, 1 temp, he switches to pure goons.
Keeps 2-3 observers with his attack force, even in base.
Breaks out at 10-12 dragoons. Expands (3rd base) immediately upon breaking out, while applying
pressure with his goon force.
Does NOT scout well; Zerg expansion at 11:00 was vulnerable.
Once he has broken the containment and his attack force has been reduced, he resumes
zealot production, keeping only 6 dragoons and 3 templar, 2 of which he quicky makes into
an archon after they have stormed.
As fOru seems want to do (I've seen it several times), he really slacks off at the end and the game goes on much longer than it should have.
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Next up -- to you Zerg players: what is required before you can go Ultra/Ling on a normal Lost Temple-esque map and what can the Protoss do to prevent and/or counter it?
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EPT
