EPTPvZ is just a mind game. Zerg should always have one more exp than toss. If you're really good toss, you'll keep zerg to two bases at most.
PvZ: The Main-Line - Page 4
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worst.player
625 Posts
PvZ is just a mind game. Zerg should always have one more exp than toss. If you're really good toss, you'll keep zerg to two bases at most. | ||
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ahk-gosu
Korea (South)2099 Posts
and as for the thing i said about the edit tool look on the top of the page 3 look at shadows posts. what i meant was that you should edit your original post instead of posting 3 times. | ||
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maleorderbride
United States2916 Posts
way to be constructive and pick on minor things when someone is actually attempting to get SOUND advice out to newbs like you. <3 mora | ||
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maleorderbride
United States2916 Posts
On October 24 2004 17:11 ahk-gosu wrote: the thing is if you got mainly a hydra force and you dont spend your gas on lurkers, get queens. ensnare owns on zlots which makes their leg upgrades nearly worthless and the broodlings kills templars. also if you parasite templars they will have to waste them or keep them with their army so you can see where they advance. queens are nice. so. im assuming that your doing all this of how much gas? Mostly hydra (75%+?). queens nest. then queens and the cost for reasearch. Then wait for them to get enough energy to actually ensnare and broodling. Thats all well and cute, but there is a reason why queens are seldom used. They have very nice spells, but thats a fair contriubtion of gas and there is no guarantee that you are even going to live long enough to get a return on it. Personally, I think ensnare can be VERY good when used with mass hydra. However, if you are doing this off 2 gas early game then you will some problems getting enough hydras that a few storms wont just kill your pitiful army. Please dont say your going to ensnare and broodling all the hydras. This strat could work if toss 1 gates into sair then expo. Get a third geyser, run in with a few lings in front and 8 or so hydras to pick off templar and keep his count low. Stall into an ok econ with 3 gas and +1 hydras with queeens and upgrades. It would take superb micro and picking off templar constantly to really pull off. Your words have some merit ahk. But your tone leaves something to be desired. You say things about strategy that are eiher simply unfeasible, or extremely difficult to set up the situation where it is an acceptable or desirable move. I think you need to stop pretending that your really good at this game and just preface your comments with "It would be cool if you played a shitty toss player and..." | ||
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maleorderbride
United States2916 Posts
On October 24 2004 16:56 NonY wrote: Here is some more support of my reaver theory that I was talking about... http://www.duke.edu/~tjw4/PvZreavers.rep The game shows the awesome utility of reavers on offense and defense. Also, watch the game before you look at it in bwchart. Take note of my micro, macro, and multitask, and try to guess my APM :O Thanks for providing the reps nony. It makes strategies quite a bit more substantial when you see them actually work vs a skilled player who didnt make major mistakes or horible judgement calls. shadowmaster I think instead of simply a description of each strat you should also link a replay that is a sterling example of the relavant strategy. If someone really wants to do a BO or new strat this would help quite a bit more than blind text. Great job so far though. It takes alot of time and initiative to type out and categorize as much as you have, even with the help youve recieved from the community. ahk-gosu. before you say anything, the reason I didnt use the edit tool is because half of the people in this forum are illiterate. They skip over any post that is too long out of fear that it will use up all of their IQ allotment for the day. Also, I was responding to different people or questions which each post and wanted to make sure that they were distinct from one another. I dont care about my post count at all and I've been here since a few months after the site started. | ||
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ShadowMaster
United States238 Posts
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maleorderbride
United States2916 Posts
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rednob
Korea (South)210 Posts
On October 23 2004 08:16 gg_hertzz wrote: Since we're on this topic, i just recently downloaded a (p@6) kingdom vs (z@)12) scandal (think that was his name) where kingdom makes dramatic use of speed zeals against 3 hatch hydra/lurk build. Kingdom pressured the zerg really well, often sending small groups of 6-7 zealots into battle. I wonder if it's better to sacrifice zeals and force zergs to make static defense and zerglings, humbling the zerg economy, or to just build and confront zerg later on. After a Private discussion with gg_hertzz I am lead to believe that the replay he is talking about is at http://act.it.sohu.com/war3/report.php?id=242 for those that are interested. :-) Update: The link does not work. See below. | ||
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ShadowMaster
United States238 Posts
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rednob
Korea (South)210 Posts
On October 25 2004 11:51 ShadowMaster wrote: The link doesn't work I am sorry for not testing it. I cannot find where to click to download the replay. It supposedly is "KingDom vs sCanDal[NaMe].1" at http://act.it.sohu.com/war3/search_do.php?gametype=2&keyword=kingdom . I cannot find how to download the correct replay so please post if you get it. | ||
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ahk-gosu
Korea (South)2099 Posts
On October 24 2004 21:07 maleorderbride wrote: wow your a fag ahk-gosu way to be constructive and pick on minor things when someone is actually attempting to get SOUND advice out to newbs like you. <3 mora fuck your mother <3 the flames o btw you stupid tard he was asking me what i was referring to. | ||
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ahk-gosu
Korea (South)2099 Posts
On October 24 2004 21:17 maleorderbride wrote: so. im assuming that your doing all this of how much gas? Mostly hydra (75%+?). queens nest. then queens and the cost for reasearch. Then wait for them to get enough energy to actually ensnare and broodling. Thats all well and cute, but there is a reason why queens are seldom used. They have very nice spells, but thats a fair contriubtion of gas and there is no guarantee that you are even going to live long enough to get a return on it. Personally, I think ensnare can be VERY good when used with mass hydra. However, if you are doing this off 2 gas early game then you will some problems getting enough hydras that a few storms wont just kill your pitiful army. Please dont say your going to ensnare and broodling all the hydras. This strat could work if toss 1 gates into sair then expo. Get a third geyser, run in with a few lings in front and 8 or so hydras to pick off templar and keep his count low. Stall into an ok econ with 3 gas and +1 hydras with queeens and upgrades. It would take superb micro and picking off templar constantly to really pull off. Your words have some merit ahk. But your tone leaves something to be desired. You say things about strategy that are eiher simply unfeasible, or extremely difficult to set up the situation where it is an acceptable or desirable move. I think you need to stop pretending that your really good at this game and just preface your comments with "It would be cool if you played a shitty toss player and..." read you stupid prick i said ensnare the zlots not the hydras.. and btw it can work because some zergs dont get lurkers and just mass hydras. and ensnare only cost 75 mana. you should be able to use it as much as the protoss can use storms. | ||
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ShadowMaster
United States238 Posts
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maleorderbride
United States2916 Posts
[QUOTE]On October 24 2004 21:17 maleorderbride wrote: [QUOTE]On October 24 2004 17:11 ahk-gosu wrote: the thing is if you got mainly a hydra force and you dont spend your gas on lurkers, get queens. ensnare owns on zlots which makes their leg upgrades nearly worthless and the broodlings kills templars. also if you parasite templars they will have to waste them or keep them with their army so you can see where they advance. queens are nice.[/QUOTE] so. im assuming that your doing all this of how much gas? Mostly hydra (75%+?). queens nest. then queens and the cost for reasearch. Then wait for them to get enough energy to actually ensnare and broodling. Thats all well and cute, but there is a reason why queens are seldom used. They have very nice spells, but thats a fair contriubtion of gas and there is no guarantee that you are even going to live long enough to get a return on it. Personally, I think ensnare can be VERY good when used with mass hydra. However, if you are doing this off 2 gas early game then you will some problems getting enough hydras that a few storms wont just kill your pitiful army. Please dont say your going to ensnare and broodling all the temps. This strat could work if toss 1 gates into sair then expo. Get a third geyser, run in with a few lings in front and 8 or so hydras to pick off templar and keep his count low. Stall into an ok econ with 3 gas and +1 hydras with queeens and upgrades. It would take superb micro and picking off templar constantly to really pull off. Your words have some merit ahk. But your tone leaves something to be desired. You say things about strategy that are eiher simply unfeasible, or extremely difficult to set up the situation where it is an acceptable or desirable move. I think you need to stop pretending that your really good at this game and just preface your comments with "It would be cool if you played a shitty toss player and..."[/QUOTE] Your response is. [QUOTE][B] read you stupid prick i said ensnare the zlots not the hydras..[/QUOTE] I am at a loss for how this has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING that i said. I think instead, you should re-read my post and think about what I actually said. [QUOTE][B] and btw it can work because some zergs dont get lurkers and just mass hydras. and ensnare only cost 75 mana. you should be able to use it as much as the protoss can use storms.[/QUOTE] Provided that you get as many queens as they get hydras. Yes that would be true. However, you getting 6 queens in the first 10 minutes of the game+mass hydra+ups. Would be a horrible horrible idea, unless, like I said before you had an early advantage that allowed you to get a very stong econ going with preferably 3 gysers. Otherwise, its just fucking stupid. When you re-read my post and are prepared to actually defend or comment on the logic and the reasons why the strat might be applicable instead of simply ignoring/misreading everything I posted please respond. Until then, your a waste of bandwidth.[/B][/B] | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
) obvious what you meant :DAnd ehm, fast queens are good actually.. But I'm not sure you'd have the gas to really do anything useful with them unless you went lings (then you can actually afford dual chambers) but then sairs are really annoying ;o And ehm, you will be hard pressed to stop drops with this as you have no scourges. Island expansions will suck for you as well. + This leaves VERY little room for failure as you can't just take an island if you feel weaker on the ground. And what opening would you do this from? A pure hydra start? How fast do you get your queens? If too fast it means you get raped by reaver goon. If too slow it means he has a window + even if you do ensare him, that's not gonna affect his goon/templar army.. whatsoever. And you just have less hydras etc so less of a problem -.- | ||
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maleorderbride
United States2916 Posts
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ahk-gosu
Korea (South)2099 Posts
also if your hydra micro sux there is no point in doing this strategy at all. also why the hell would get iget " as many queens as they get hydras"? they are support units not freaken battle tanks. you dont need a lot of them to cover an army. AND READ MY FREAKEN POST YOU IDIOT. IM TALKING ABOUT PROTOSS VERSUS ZERG. I AM TALKING ABOUT ZERGS ENSNARING ZEALOTS AND BROODING TEMPLARS NOT ENSNARING HYDRAS OMFG. | ||
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maleorderbride
United States2916 Posts
You said youd get as many ensnares as toss gets storms. You said that, not me. That obviously means that you must have as many queens as I have temps. Plus you wanted to broodling, So yell at yourself for saying dumb things, not me. ANyway, I think you should read FAs post. He makes several good points. Provide a rep of BO and play by play of game you think this will work in. Ive already provided when I think it will work. Why not actually attempt to contribute something other than bad theorycraft to the community? PS stop wasting bandwidth | ||
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Hautamaki
Canada1311 Posts
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NonYold
United States2814 Posts
Comparing the cost of units to the cost of other units is a waste of time. What about the situation in which you can get the units? Yes, I can make 10 zealots and some HT's for the cost of a shuttle and 2 reavers, but what's the point when I'm lurker contained? Why should I get zealots/temps when the zerg is spread out over the map, and I'll never be able to move a ground army across the map for the life of me? If you are restricting yourself to "if the zerg has a spire I can't do drops anymore", then your problem isn't strategy.. you just need more control/speed. The expansion doesnt even have to be undefended to drop it, I'll drop 2 reavers in the range of a sunken and micro to kill it with minimal damage to myself.. I'll put reavers in a corner and fight 6-10 hydra. My point is, if you're at the level where you can't even use the reavers for what they're worth, then of course you shouldnt get them... but it doesn't make the strategy less valid for the person with the means to use it. | ||
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