EPTCan I get some opinions on Milton? I really feel like I've got some solid stuff to go on, but so far 3 people have kind of disregarded it completely. If you disagree with my read, please at least say so.
Newbie Mini XIV - Page 6
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
Can I get some opinions on Milton? I really feel like I've got some solid stuff to go on, but so far 3 people have kind of disregarded it completely. If you disagree with my read, please at least say so. | ||
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
Since it is Day1 pretty much everyone's postcount is relatively low (although Mufaa really stands out here), your second argument on piling suspicion on you, while being wishy washy about it seems like a typical day 1 accusation/FOS to me. There simply is not enough material for solid cases against others. I believe solid ones will only appear well into the 2nd half of day 1 when there is more information. Not sticking someone's neck out is in my opinion understandable. Although it may be a scum trait it could also be a blue role. In terms of getting people's attention, nobody besides you, has really done something to get everyone on it. So in regards to that everyone would be suspicious. All in all I think that your case is just not "solid" enough without further information. Let's just wait for Milton's response, as that is something that will give us more info. | ||
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hegeo
Germany194 Posts
On May 23 2012 03:00 ShiaoPi wrote: @Sciberbia: The main thing about your suspicions on Milton is that nothing of the tidbits you gathered really struck me as: "well that's scummy" Since it is Day1 pretty much everyone's postcount is relatively low ... In terms of getting people's attention, nobody besides you, has really done something to get everyone on it. So in regards to that everyone would be suspicious. Well ShiaoPI, I wouldn't say so. On May 22 2012 18:47 ShiaoPi wrote: First of all we should definetly go for a lynch, no-lynch is (at least in my opinion) utter nonsense. Regarding Lurkers, I believe that they should be put under suspicion especially in a 9 player setup. I was in the same game as mufaa and lurking screwed us over pretty badly in a 13 player game. You only stated what several people before you agreed on, also regarding lurkers being a bad thing (I give you the benefit of the doubt here, since it is the first post and my first post was hard for me also). Several hours later, you also repeat what you said before, focusing Mufaa again. + Show Spoiler + (The point is not that you focus on Mufaa, I agree on that, it's the way you do it) On May 23 2012 02:43 ShiaoPi wrote: Since we all agree on lurkers being suspicious,... I would suggest taking a closer look on Mufaa. Although we are still in Day and the amount of posts is therefore pretty limited, his filter contains an amazing single post. I am not sure about his timezone but still a single post only? Maybe I am also biased as he was one of the lurking scum in Newbie Mafia XIII, but he really reminds me of his play in the last game right now... Why wouldn't you say "I said it before, and since he didn't post till now,..."? No, you repeat "what others agreed on". On May 23 2012 00:21 ShiaoPi wrote: + Show Spoiler + On May 23 2012 00:15 s0Lstice wrote: ---snipped--- ShiaoPi has a small filter as well. You just like that back off your suspicions on sciberbia? Scum post fluffy quasi-useful posts all the time. They want to appear to be contributing without actually saying anything incriminating. If you reread my first post on sciberbia I would have assumed that it was easily visible that I had a bit of concern regarding him but not really a suspicion. Regarding my small filter, yes I did not post much until now, but how come that you with the exact same amount of posts (since the daypost) can claim that my filter is small. This strikes me as odd. Why complain about my filter if yours is not that much as well? This post is practically without any new content but a defense. You could have said "I had no time/Wanted to see how things go", whatever... But you chose to say "You're not better than me". This seems like only searching for an excuse once other people target you. Zero content is also valid for this post here: On May 22 2012 23:22 ShiaoPi wrote: Maybe I should have rephrased my post on the suspicions towards you Sciberbia: I was not that much concerned about your absence but just on the amount of seemingly "useless" things within the post. Don't see anything wrong with your elaborations on it now. You also say that you ... On May 22 2012 18:47 ShiaoPi wrote: Just came back from university. but didn't add something with original content for almost 8 hours ?? (18:47-2:43 KST) To me, your attitude seem to be of an overall "maybe there is something, maybe not, who knows... there is not enough information... let's wait" nature. This sounded a little different in your post where you stated: On May 22 2012 18:47 ShiaoPi wrote: [...]we won't get anything worthwhile from just being nice to each other. Pressuring is a great way to get some more information and should be utilizied. What do you think about my points, ShiaoPI? What do others think? Synopsis: ShiaoPi has low content post, states obvious stuff and has vague opinions on others | ||
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hegeo
Germany194 Posts
On May 23 2012 02:46 sciberbia wrote: Yea, I'd love to hear Mufaa's opinion on anything. Can I get some opinions on Milton? I really feel like I've got some solid stuff to go on, but so far 3 people have kind of disregarded it completely. If you disagree with my read, please at least say so. Well, at least I agree that I have no great town read on him. The "Hi I'm here why haven't XYZ posted yet" wasn't really helping. Let's see what he produces in the next hours. His "accusations" against you were imo also possible merely due to the fact that you were the first one to post long stuff, it is obvious that you were a nice target for so-so posting players. As ShiaoPi said, not sticking your head out protects you from such stuff, but I'm really happy that you started a real analysis of people's posts. What is your second scum read (if you don't want to share it yet, np)? | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
Hegeo has been very suspicious. To restate what I've already said, he did not post in the first 5 hours (in and of itself harmless), but then posted 5 minutes after someone called him out for not posting. He offered an excuse, but the most obvious explanation is that he was watching the thread, and had a knee-jerk reaction to being called out. To believe he began writing before he was called out, and posted after a few minutes is, frankly, well, let's just say its not a very high order of probability. The next question is why he would watch the thread without posting. I can think of no reason a Townie would do this. Then he posts this + Show Spoiler + On May 22 2012 19:54 hegeo wrote: Do you know more than the rest of us? Why couldn't Golden be mafia (and you)? I kind of agree on the fact that activity creates information, but walls of text (I take it you exaggerated to make your point) don't help automatically. But this was already said earlier, so I wont elaborate on that. Admittedly, it is. But if I really wanted to defend myself at that time (against what I might add?), I would have mentioned the post. Truth is I read Miltonkram's post after I posted mine, from now on I will always refresh the thread before I post then. Then he posts this gem: + Show Spoiler + On May 23 2012 01:29 hegeo wrote: Sciberbia bringing the heat via analysis, I like it. Hey Release, some thoughts about your posts, and why I think you're not always helping town with them: a) Even though I understand where you're coming from, this is kind of pseudo-pressuring people, which is futile in the beginning of the game. This makes for an anti-town-atmosphere, since posting should be encouraged. b) It's not the best case to lynch lurkers, but if they don't contribute to town then it is at least good riddance. c) You are posting at least a considerable amount of non-productive posts right now, e.g. to this post... ... your answer was this: You consistently do this "#FOS"-stuff and then, you FOS Sciberibia... ..before even un##FOSing Mordanis: To answer in your own words: Even though there are many players that have a way shorter filter than you, what you do is generating "noise" (not always, you have your points that I can agree with and you definitely contribute). It seems as though you either just want to stir up anything you can (because both of these #FOSes came to nothing, which would make you a little scummy) or I read it as an overly motivated try to get information. On May 23 2012 01:35 hegeo wrote: EBWOP: I forgot to say that I added the a),b) etc in italics and Mordanis already said that this kind of aggressiveness is not helping + Show Spoiler + (I was merely rephrasing this and putting it into my context). I'm very willing to change my mind, as we aren't even halfway through the first day. That being said, we need to have more and better analysis if we're going to find scum. I think it is wrong to assume that everyone is innocent just as it is wrong to assume everyone is innocent. We need to cultivate a healthy distrust of everyone, but at the same time we need to be able to work together to hunt scum. We need balance. We began too distrustful, we are now too trusting. We must find a middle ground to be successful. | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
Mordanis, what are your thoughts on hegeo's last two posts? | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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Release
United States4397 Posts
On May 23 2012 01:29 hegeo wrote: Sciberbia bringing the heat via analysis, I like it. Hey Release, some thoughts about your posts, and why I think you're not always helping town with them: a) Even though I understand where you're coming from, this is kind of pseudo-pressuring people, which is futile in the beginning of the game. This makes for an anti-town-atmosphere, since posting should be encouraged. b) It's not the best case to lynch lurkers, but if they don't contribute to town then it is at least good riddance. c) You are posting at least a considerable amount of non-productive posts right now, e.g. to this post... ... your answer was this: You consistently do this "#FOS"-stuff and then, you FOS Sciberibia... ..before even un##FOSing Mordanis: To answer in your own words: Even though there are many players that have a way shorter filter than you, what you do is generating "noise" (not always, you have your points that I can agree with and you definitely contribute). It seems as though you either just want to stir up anything you can (because both of these #FOSes came to nothing, which would make you a little scummy) or I read it as an overly motivated try to get information. Response to a) my point was that contributing useless information is worse than having no contribution at all. My example was Sciberia's asking the same question twice, which has since, been given some clarification. b) Lynching a lurker is not "good riddance". I don't see why a townie should feel that way. Lynching a lurker (if there are more than one) is random to a townie, but clear to the mafia. The mafia will obviously choose the lurker whom is a townie, therefore causing us to mislynch. Advocating a lurker lynch instead of focusing on those who are suspicious is a Mafia's way of thinking. In fact, you don't even list some alternative, despite it not being a best case scenario. c)my answer was this: "My point is that Townies can make mistakes, but townies don't make slips. Mafia make can make mistakes; usually their mistake is to make a slip. I want to make that very clear. We shouldn't end up lynching for a mistake. We should lynch someone who makes a slip." From Newbie II game + Show Spoiler + Probulous got a AKCT lynched. That was a mistake. He was clearly contributing so even though he made a mistake, he shouldn't get lynched. (he didn't) Sheth however, does slip in trying to save his scumbuddy and got lynched for that. this was in support of the above point i made. Your c) and reasoning behind are Blatant Lies; you intentionally leave out my actual point to make it seem like i am posting filler. If i didn't know better, you know that i am town, and see that i am dangerous to your scum motives. You are targeting me with a weak case based on incomplete evidence. In regard to the FOS before unFOS, i did it to show that i was putting both of them under suspicion. There are 3 mafia. I only had 2. Are you seriously trying to convince to to avoid the larger picture and completely ignore anyone (other than the person who i am targeting at the moment) who might be Mafia? The FOS's got people talking. Talking is good for the town. Again, this is an example of where you completely ignore the larger picture. "overly motivated try to get information." All townies want information. After all, we don't know much. You however, seem perfectly content to let this day slip by without extracting a lot of information from it (presumably because you already have the information because you are scum). I see no other option as of yet (or until you reply) but to: ##Vote: Hegeo | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
On May 15 2012 06:28 VisceraEyes wrote: Player List 1.) Release 2.) Miltonkram 3.) Mordanis 4.) Mufaa 5.) s0Lstice 6.) sciberbia 7.) O.Golden_ne 8.) hegeo 9.) ShiaoPi Replacements
2.) Inigmaticalism 3.) austinmcc 4.) 2/2 Mafia Remaining Mafia KP currently equals 1 7/7 Town PM me for the observer QT, or if you wish to be listed as an official coach only two mafia :D | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
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Release
United States4397 Posts
For now, he is focusing on less important aspects of ShaoPi's play than scum/town. This is not to say i completely disagree and ShaoPi is above suspicion, but Hegeo is far more scummy than ShaoPi is right now. | ||
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Release
United States4397 Posts
Reading too much Newbie Mafia II. They used a 9-3 setup. Still my point remains. 2=2. And more people will appear suspicious than will flip scum. I don't see why this would be a scummy idea. | ||
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hegeo
Germany194 Posts
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
Your primary accusation and most tangible peace of evidence is that hegeo's first post was 10 minutes after Milton called out the three people left to post. I don't find this very inciminating. If hegeo was mafia and worried about looking like a lurker, he'd just have posted a fluffy sorta "hi all" first post, similar to Milton, solstice etc. If he's mafia and not that worried about looking like a lurker, why would he panic so much? It just doesn't make much sense to me. If you were mafia, would you watch the thread, wait until someone calls you out as lurking, and then post 10 minutes later? Seems dumb. I see where you're coming from, and I agree it's a bit fishy, but I guess I'm just more willing to believe it's a coincadence than you are. And I liked the actual content of his first post. Mordanis, your statement about working with Golden struck me strangely as well. I was expecting someone to comment on it. And it makes sense that he would criticize you because you had just accused him. Doesn't seem odd to me. His defense is a litte weird, but I don't find it particularly scummy. I'm really not quite sure what to make of his post about Release. I could see him posting it as either town or mafia. Also, you say that he isn't helping scumhunt, but he just assembled some evidence against shiaopi. Personally, I would be willing to vote for hegeo if it was between that and no-lynch, but I think we have better options. I don't really have a read on hegeo. I'll think about it more tomorrow if he's still in contention for lynching. I encourage everyone to weigh in as we have have quite a few accusations. | ||
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
So you see me as scummy/suspicious? Let's take a look at your reasoning: I'll follow the chronological order of your post. So first off you scrutinize my first post and come to the conclusion that I am just repeating stuff, which has been said by others already. I actually see nothing wrong in joining a discussion that has already started. To me it seemed as they were asking for everyone's opinion, so I gave my opinion. If stating somebody's stance on something is scummy, well cannot help you then. In your 2nd snippet you take a closer look on my suspicions of Mufaa. I really do not think an issue of semantics is scummy. I also do not phrase it as "What others said" I posted "since we all agree..." If you really want to go into semantics please take note that I am using the plural with myself included, so it is just another way of saying since I and others agree on...." Going on to the 3rd excerpt: You state the following: + Show Spoiler + This post is practically without any new content but a defense. You could have said "I had no time/Wanted to see how things go", whatever... But you chose to say "You're not better than me". This seems like only searching for an excuse once other people target you. I was being put under suspicion so I defended myself, sounds pretty reasonable? You can interpret text in many ways, if we assume that I said "had no time/wanted to see how things go", you can also claim that it looks scummy, it really is a matter of interpretation. I see nothing wrong with my defense, firstly I clarified my stance on sciberbia, then I point out a flaw in his 2nd argument. Next snippet is me repsonding to sciberbia regarding my stance on him and as you take it out of context it looks useless. I believe it to have served it's purpose of further clarifying my opinion. Your suspicions regarding the time I came online and the time I posted "something original" are not understandable to me. I am simply not playing as aggressive as Release is and therefore I naturally lack "original" content, as you already pointed out my playstyle might seem as you phrased it: "maybe there is something, maybe not, who knows... there is not enough information... let's wait" Seems to me like a not too shabby way to play on Day 1. Not much yet you can base reads off and still quite some time to the deadline, whose approach always brings out the more mattering posts (at least in my opinion). I do not see it contradicting with the usage of pressure to gain information, which you seem to see. I pressured sciberbia very lightly, before now focusing on Mufaa, as he strikes me as most scummiest right now. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
IDK how many games you've played, but this is not a very high level game. It is not even remotely inconceivable that an inexperienced mafia could panic, and then make an excuse for why he acted that way. I also included a fair amount of analysis of his posts, which seemed scummy to me. Compare my post to Hegeo's accusation of ShiaoPi. I have one solid fact and a lot of solid analysis. Hegeo just points out that ShiaoPi has a lot of filler content. Usefull information, but not very deep analysis. Also, I was posting that as much to generate discussion as much as to gather support for a lynch. It's early on in the game, but if we don't start throwing some accusations around then we'll be mired in inactivity, while the mafia picks us off one by one. And I don't see anyone you are considering lynching in your post. About Golden, I played with him in our last game. It's nice to see a familiar face. That's the only reason why. Basic human needs and such. The last four lines are jumbled between what I said and what other people said. I didn't understand them. If you'd clarify I'd love to comment on them as well. One final thing: I think the whole passive-aggressive thing needs to end. I understand that you don't want to be lynched (neither do I), but just being angry at one person for the sake of being angry doesn't help anything. | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
You don't have to jump all over me just because I don't 100% agree with your accusation (which you don't even seem completely convinced of yourself, saying that you were "very willing" to change your mind, and that you accused him for the purpose of generating discussion as much as anything.) I didn't accuse you of anything.. I merely stated my thoughts on hegeo. On May 23 2012 05:29 Mordanis wrote: About Golden, I played with him in our last game. It's nice to see a familiar face. That's the only reason why. Basic human needs and such. I thought about your sentence about Golden a lot and concluded that it means nothing except that you are probably not mafia with Golden. I'm just saying it caught my attention as well. On May 23 2012 05:29 Mordanis wrote: The last four lines are jumbled between what I said and what other people said. I didn't understand them. If you'd clarify I'd love to comment on them as well. - you stated in your post that hegeo was not helping to scumhunt, but he had just accused shiaopi. Was just pointing that out. - i'm not convinced hegeo is mafia, nor am i convinced he is town. So, I'd be willing to vote for him, but I think we have better options - I encourage other people to post On May 23 2012 05:29 Mordanis wrote: One final thing: I think the whole passive-aggressive thing needs to end. I understand that you don't want to be lynched (neither do I), but just being angry at one person for the sake of being angry doesn't help anything. I don't see how I was being passive-agressive, unless you mean the fact that I'm undecided about hegeo. I'm not angry at anybody. Maybe you weren't talking to me? And I don't see what being angry at one person has to do with being passive-aggressive. On May 23 2012 05:29 Mordanis wrote: And I don't see anyone you are considering lynching in your post. You don't have to be so defensive. Just because I don't agree with you on hegeo doesn't mean I think you're mafia. I've already accused milton and I have one other scum suspect that I'll probably not bring up until tomorrow. What does everyone else think about hegeo??? So far, the three people that are going for his throat are the three people that he has criticized: Mordanis (at the beginning), Release (a few hours ago), and Shiaopi (just now). Personally, I'm not convinced, and I think these three might be a bit biased. I think we need everyone else (solstice, mufaa, milton, golden) to give their opinion's on hegeo. I also wouldn't mind comments on milton or shiaopi. | ||
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O.Golden_ne
Australia204 Posts
@Mordanis: RE: Hegeo. You raise some good points, but like i said earlier i can't base a vote on just a single incriminating post. Sometime people only have a short amount of time to zip into the thread and post. and in my experience ALL rushed posts come off with a scum vibe. So i for one am going to let the "coincidence" debate slide on this one, and try read a little further into other statements today before casting my vote. One final thing: I think the whole passive-aggressive thing needs to end. I understand that you don't want to be lynched (neither do I), but just being angry at one person for the sake of being angry doesn't help anything. This is very important to establish early on also, for everyone. If you're town, you've got nothing to worry about other than posting as much info as you can before you die. We all don't want to be lynched because playing is fun, however its more important to play WELL than to play for a LONG TIME. Play for the team, not for yourself as thats how scum play. @Hegeo. I'd love to see your response to Releases accusation. As his is the most tangible accusation to date. Because he's acctually got a vote behind it! Please rebut. I'll be posting more in my lunch break in 5 hours. c u soon | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
With the discussion generated I think there is finally enough info for me to start making cases. I'm currently reading through people's filters and making notes on them. I'll post again soon with my scum reads. I'm getting more and more confident that I have a couple solid cases to make. | ||
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
I am going for hegeo's throat? Where? I merely defended myself. I am still intent on getting something out off Mufaa for now, as his lurkiness is just intolerable. | ||
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