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Pick Your Poison Mafia - Page 35

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prplhz
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Denmark8045 Posts
June 08 2012 11:05 GMT
#681
@Kurumi Why do you think that Sbrubbles is a good lynch?
http://i.imgur.com/M7t7egx.png
Kurumi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland6130 Posts
June 08 2012 11:20 GMT
#682
##### Encrypted: decrypt with http://www.fourmilab.ch/javascrypt/
ZZZZZ GPMKA HWRAD AFMCL JVBIU QELRU HVDEK MVDCM CQNGW NIOUN WOGQC
QFSVL IHAKI QOFEP KHNFO EKOGG RTNSO FWLVE CBNER XQXDO NCUAR UVVVW
NODAM DCJFL DBOLF ROBBM PPLGS BGUPL DWPAB HKIUR GHIXK MHUOS GIFLN
GULRG GQDMS SMPHO IHORU HWWDW PFRUI FBBVA QIGQQ WDEQG HDQIC SGEJV
OQHLA VBNTQ QHWTW VBXQU KNKTU TBQKS TCRMN HLBKO GJABD KTOKI OUVLE
FFWXM ABWUK OESAB PWBMI RRWGJ UACQB RDAGG SIULP WHOFX UASQV WMAHL
SBSRJ CWSNB LJOIM UIUQR SPWIT RVISI XESQW BCHPH LPROI XHHPG BQITD
TPXBK FXAIU HQIGV WXFFJ FVXSF MEAAL XITFX RILQT OPWGL QUIWV HSETO
FGSQD AGGWM KMOOO UKUCU FXUAU RISRJ SJHFF IHXXK XCELU PKETL DCISC
GHOCA KKHAI XUXKT MVJKE OCURQ RFFRK WCOFD LFXJB MSMTX MQIVB IIKJF
OVOLS TIVGD UXLKG ALPQN LKHMH VSVLU OTKVQ RXOBB OXQJQ MPLBL BGTIQ
MELGJ RAUGW KUOHT JBMPF ATTHI APWTM ICCMM PCMTS FPUVE OLBSE ECSIW
GUOLF MBHDS BMBEI GKGNC QJEDB MVJCV OWSHA CAANO LPPVO JPHMR KKRDI
FVXXL UIXSX GEFDJ GOVXJ QQQMJ FNOXV ROJQP NFNFK AXXLL TBSUG OHUWI
HESLM ETTNR OCXOM QJMBO PQFNA HURWX CDCWT GSBOU JWLAC WFVMA SVHHP
NLSPM WUFLF USILW LAVOK WVAMD ACJRA EIWGL VOXLJ NRJPL LIOMM IRMLI
DNLUA UEPKT HVKXW VHBAD EGCWT NSGGK COSBJ ALMLK COHTT NAEAN HKPNR
DMNKQ EOOBC LFOWJ JNQPI QMRIJ REULH ASCVL VVRFG SLQJF JHRPM RJCBK
RMKAB WNATN AMNGE WGIRK NPTEA OLGPK AOXWE RWHJA QNUOX EMOXU NMKWB
MEEFB GSSUD OWADJ ABPJC PXUPM CJUVS DDVTD RGBJT FFHPE DQSAK DOBNW
PXJXS UMKWA KLRUJ RQRNO LLWAO TWUPP ANTRB XBMSG SPLCT NVDOR BALGE
AKADF TBAWU DWJXW FMXQX RBHUA KKGAV VPGNB FKECG NENHR DSCND MAFHS
LOQSD TCFIH UITLD JIWXW IEXON PALXS TFGOQ JMTPU SLQAX DQDHK TTNJF
BJMUW JFWVV BJDDO UAWFQ KPFMF TWXAF SIPXN KNPUC VLUBU DGIBI RKUME
VCAMD BSVLL HAUBC NTJOW DNJKM PPORA NCIOC HRIFF TUVMS RWSVA XORXO
HALLM AFGCH TMWAD TGEXJ OVCNH LMXTD DSCON ILJRV TXREE KGCJL IXASC
HIDLK MWIHH TQJXF XKDCC DVKDF ISVUN CVRKV NRJED NAHDX XRQGI OSQGU
FMQIX NUNQS LKTPE HETRW JHMMW PJSVM PEBOQ MFMWS INJKX PHPBU IUAOW
UAGIH MWSQR VOFQF IVIOA FUJFU UMMOA GBJBR GRITR MSTVD FUSGM GFXVU
GSQXW XFUWJ JUKOW BRITG FEDUF RKPFQ VHPBJ LFTDL AGHBT PACVF XHXWP
VKESA AADRN MXWCW NAHSA TIUIL MJQDV LVRDM IBWTW BSOHO HFSXR DEBGF
OEDJO BHGGE GQRWH BFPCL VOQPJ IGCNO MHFUA UFUPD VPHIH PWHSL CBDRE
NUODH LECLS LDALP PDPHE VPKVU WCHXT XJVHE SVFHH HTWCG FDWGH UVXCP
BXRPP NJTNR WLCSA LDORP SCWID NSLDX FNWSC SLWXU VGXPD VJNFE GOAHM
HOHUO QRVFW RFOJM NGKLU RTNSU BIHCU VDJCD LMSTI TOPEX LBUSI OASRM
UHKVG WDISJ OVRLO MEAQK KEWXH SXVNP MBMRN NJIBJ GUOJI TSVFS SKRLU
LOCFX JVTAB JBFME LIHKU VFTEG SQJRM FIRPR KBQSL JWFLE OOOFR TGFHP
UJIHI QBRMT OUJNT AOFLB RFIDT EFEGM APDMM BCHTQ IKGXM TRBQK PDOSA
LIECC UFCDW DINJE HNKSV GOWEX FXELU MOVKT REMDF WUCCH CCHKU GVQAA
XXJVA KBNEG RABEP GCSDD VJOFS HMUDN BVTCN MMXUX GNXDA MLUOP PXLBQ
DJANX EREOH JTASL WXOGH MBKHW JGNEF TJTWQ KUIEL CAOPK YYYYY
##### End encrypted message
I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum!
Kurumi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland6130 Posts
June 08 2012 11:24 GMT
#683
On June 08 2012 20:05 prplhz wrote:
@Kurumi Why do you think that Sbrubbles is a good lynch?

Easy elimination off my reads.
Add a short filter, no cases pushed, no mention of Toad or Talismania in the entire game
NEVER VOTED TOAD, HE ACTUALLY NEVER VOTED ANYONE THAT DAY WHAT THE FUCK WHY HE IS ALIVE

On June 02 2012 10:16 Toadesstern wrote:
got ninja'ed
About sbrubbles: I'll tell you once d2 has started for obvious reasons, sry.

never delivered
this
I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum!
Kurumi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland6130 Posts
June 08 2012 11:26 GMT
#684
rawrwarawrawrawrawrrrawwrwawrawrawrawra
I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum!
Kurumi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland6130 Posts
June 08 2012 11:26 GMT
#685
I SMASH
I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum!
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 08 2012 16:41 GMT
#686
Guh what a mess ...
Well we know that risk.nuke is town, and therefore the D2 lynch looks much more clear cut.
Toad was getting lynched and there was a good amount of resistance and people trying to deflect it onto risk.
People should reread from Radfield's case with that perspective. Along with that:

Roleblocker
Navillus
talismania
toadesstern
radfield
risk.nuke
prplhz [null-vote]

Framer
Sbrubbles
Kurumi
Zephirdd
wherebugsgo
sloosh

GF
HiroPro

Unless one or both talismania and HiroPro are scum (I doubt it), mafia have the roleblocker, which means that tracker's results are valid. Most likely they have been withholding their action to cast possible doubt on any claims. There is a good chance that they might start using roleblock since this is out, or even claim to be roleblocked.

In any case after rereading thread with risk's town flip, I find myself agreeing with risk's reads on Kurumi and Sbrubbles to the degree that I would post their names in bold red. If I was tracker (start WIFOMing you smelly scum) I would track them.

Will post a full case before deadline.
Kurumi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland6130 Posts
June 08 2012 16:49 GMT
#687
I find it funny you haven't coloured your name.
then, risk.nuke's read was just blabbering I am scum.
I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum!
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 08 2012 16:54 GMT
#688
Yea I wish he fleshed out his read with analysis and such but whatever, he's dead and I'm not so here's to a case at the eleventh hour.

Didn't colour in my name so everyone else can use it. I'm thoughtful like that.

Kurumi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland6130 Posts
June 08 2012 23:37 GMT
#689
On June 08 2012 20:20 Kurumi wrote:
##### Encrypted: decrypt with http://www.fourmilab.ch/javascrypt/
ZZZZZ GPMKA HWRAD AFMCL JVBIU QELRU HVDEK MVDCM CQNGW NIOUN WOGQC
QFSVL IHAKI QOFEP KHNFO EKOGG RTNSO FWLVE CBNER XQXDO NCUAR UVVVW
NODAM DCJFL DBOLF ROBBM PPLGS BGUPL DWPAB HKIUR GHIXK MHUOS GIFLN
GULRG GQDMS SMPHO IHORU HWWDW PFRUI FBBVA QIGQQ WDEQG HDQIC SGEJV
OQHLA VBNTQ QHWTW VBXQU KNKTU TBQKS TCRMN HLBKO GJABD KTOKI OUVLE
FFWXM ABWUK OESAB PWBMI RRWGJ UACQB RDAGG SIULP WHOFX UASQV WMAHL
SBSRJ CWSNB LJOIM UIUQR SPWIT RVISI XESQW BCHPH LPROI XHHPG BQITD
TPXBK FXAIU HQIGV WXFFJ FVXSF MEAAL XITFX RILQT OPWGL QUIWV HSETO
FGSQD AGGWM KMOOO UKUCU FXUAU RISRJ SJHFF IHXXK XCELU PKETL DCISC
GHOCA KKHAI XUXKT MVJKE OCURQ RFFRK WCOFD LFXJB MSMTX MQIVB IIKJF
OVOLS TIVGD UXLKG ALPQN LKHMH VSVLU OTKVQ RXOBB OXQJQ MPLBL BGTIQ
MELGJ RAUGW KUOHT JBMPF ATTHI APWTM ICCMM PCMTS FPUVE OLBSE ECSIW
GUOLF MBHDS BMBEI GKGNC QJEDB MVJCV OWSHA CAANO LPPVO JPHMR KKRDI
FVXXL UIXSX GEFDJ GOVXJ QQQMJ FNOXV ROJQP NFNFK AXXLL TBSUG OHUWI
HESLM ETTNR OCXOM QJMBO PQFNA HURWX CDCWT GSBOU JWLAC WFVMA SVHHP
NLSPM WUFLF USILW LAVOK WVAMD ACJRA EIWGL VOXLJ NRJPL LIOMM IRMLI
DNLUA UEPKT HVKXW VHBAD EGCWT NSGGK COSBJ ALMLK COHTT NAEAN HKPNR
DMNKQ EOOBC LFOWJ JNQPI QMRIJ REULH ASCVL VVRFG SLQJF JHRPM RJCBK
RMKAB WNATN AMNGE WGIRK NPTEA OLGPK AOXWE RWHJA QNUOX EMOXU NMKWB
MEEFB GSSUD OWADJ ABPJC PXUPM CJUVS DDVTD RGBJT FFHPE DQSAK DOBNW
PXJXS UMKWA KLRUJ RQRNO LLWAO TWUPP ANTRB XBMSG SPLCT NVDOR BALGE
AKADF TBAWU DWJXW FMXQX RBHUA KKGAV VPGNB FKECG NENHR DSCND MAFHS
LOQSD TCFIH UITLD JIWXW IEXON PALXS TFGOQ JMTPU SLQAX DQDHK TTNJF
BJMUW JFWVV BJDDO UAWFQ KPFMF TWXAF SIPXN KNPUC VLUBU DGIBI RKUME
VCAMD BSVLL HAUBC NTJOW DNJKM PPORA NCIOC HRIFF TUVMS RWSVA XORXO
HALLM AFGCH TMWAD TGEXJ OVCNH LMXTD DSCON ILJRV TXREE KGCJL IXASC
HIDLK MWIHH TQJXF XKDCC DVKDF ISVUN CVRKV NRJED NAHDX XRQGI OSQGU
FMQIX NUNQS LKTPE HETRW JHMMW PJSVM PEBOQ MFMWS INJKX PHPBU IUAOW
UAGIH MWSQR VOFQF IVIOA FUJFU UMMOA GBJBR GRITR MSTVD FUSGM GFXVU
GSQXW XFUWJ JUKOW BRITG FEDUF RKPFQ VHPBJ LFTDL AGHBT PACVF XHXWP
VKESA AADRN MXWCW NAHSA TIUIL MJQDV LVRDM IBWTW BSOHO HFSXR DEBGF
OEDJO BHGGE GQRWH BFPCL VOQPJ IGCNO MHFUA UFUPD VPHIH PWHSL CBDRE
NUODH LECLS LDALP PDPHE VPKVU WCHXT XJVHE SVFHH HTWCG FDWGH UVXCP
BXRPP NJTNR WLCSA LDORP SCWID NSLDX FNWSC SLWXU VGXPD VJNFE GOAHM
HOHUO QRVFW RFOJM NGKLU RTNSU BIHCU VDJCD LMSTI TOPEX LBUSI OASRM
UHKVG WDISJ OVRLO MEAQK KEWXH SXVNP MBMRN NJIBJ GUOJI TSVFS SKRLU
LOCFX JVTAB JBFME LIHKU VFTEG SQJRM FIRPR KBQSL JWFLE OOOFR TGFHP
UJIHI QBRMT OUJNT AOFLB RFIDT EFEGM APDMM BCHTQ IKGXM TRBQK PDOSA
LIECC UFCDW DINJE HNKSV GOWEX FXELU MOVKT REMDF WUCCH CCHKU GVQAA
XXJVA KBNEG RABEP GCSDD VJOFS HMUDN BVTCN MMXUX GNXDA MLUOP PXLBQ
DJANX EREOH JTASL WXOGH MBKHW JGNEF TJTWQ KUIEL CAOPK YYYYY
##### End encrypted message

texanstyle
I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum!
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
June 08 2012 23:39 GMT
#690
I get an error. Can you just post the original thing.
prplhz
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Denmark8045 Posts
June 09 2012 01:01 GMT
#691
Since it's LYLO tomorrow, innocent child should claim right away so we can focus on nailing scum.
http://i.imgur.com/M7t7egx.png
talismania
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States2364 Posts
June 09 2012 01:29 GMT
#692
If I die tonight, lynch into sbrubbles and zephirdd.

-Both put some pressure on hiro (sbrubbles more so D1) as did toad.
-Both said toad was scummy but that risk.nuke was a better alternative. Their posts are strikingly similar.
-Toad never commented on sbrubbles like he said he would; toad also openly stated he thought lynching zephirdd was a bad idea, but gave no reason why (on D1).
-Zeph's fake blue claim and retraction makes little sense at first but given that innocent child + tracker is likely it actually makes a lot of sense. He couldn't keep the blue claim up or it would come back to bite him later.
-Sbrubbles has simply done nothing the whole game, aside from pushing hiropro. Everyone else has either contributed or been at the wrong end of toad's finger.

Relevant quotes:
+ Show Spoiler +


HiroPro

On June 01 2012 04:39 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2012 03:36 HiroPro wrote:
Key: KWUIR-KMBIV-QPGAY-CZTNK-BZSVT-ERHIS-YFULP-ZUYOK-GOKYP-TLBON-PIDIC-AAFXW

Choose Godfather, I did.


On May 31 2012 21:56 Sbrubbles wrote:
The mafia already know the voting results, fyi.

On May 29 2012 03:32 kitaman27 wrote:
The game will begin with a 24 hour selection phase. During this phase, the mafia team will select two roles for town. Additionally, the town will privately vote via PM on a single role for the mafia. If there is a tie, a random role from the tied roles will be selected. The selected roles will not be revealed, however the mafia team will be provided with the voting results.


Meh, I guess the encryption wasn't really that useful then. I thought it'd make it so that mafia have to guess on what votes to fake.


Kurumi: So what I get from your Radfield case is that you think he is scum because he tells everyone to pick Roleblocker even though it's a good role for scum? But I don't really follow that; while I think roleblocker is a strong role for mafia also, Radfield's argument was not bad. And I don't see this contradiction that you are talking about.


That's got to be a joke. Godfather? Why?!?! It was clear the decision would be either RB or framer at some point and you chose to pick Godfather and completly wasted your vote?
Someone explained (I think risk?) d0 that the only solution to not screw up as mafia is to pick 1-1-1. 1 guy votes RB, one guy votes framer, one guy picks GF because that way they add 1 to each thing and don't change a thing.

So wtf?


On June 01 2012 05:29 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2012 05:03 HiroPro wrote:
On June 01 2012 04:32 Sbrubbles wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

On June 01 2012 04:02 HiroPro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2012 03:59 Zephirdd wrote:
On June 01 2012 03:54 HiroPro wrote:
Because I felt that it's the weakest role, as it's only really effective against tracker (since gf can send kills himself). GF is immune to cop, but it doesn't protect the other members of the team and it can't introduce false positives. And since cop in this setup only has 1 shot, they will most likely be using it on someone who feel has a strong chance of being scum and a positive result is pretty much a confirmation then without framer. And of course it does nothing to any of the other roles.


Great, and why didn't you provide these arguments during the day we had to actually choose GF? Why did you just let the framers/roleblockers go and not fight for your argument? Why keep it down and suddenly pop out with this?



Show nested quote +
On May 30 2012 11:52 HiroPro wrote:
All of the mafia roles are "anti-blue" roles and pretty useless otherwise. Now out of the three mafia roles, roleblocker looks to be the most powerful to me, as it is effective against all of the blue roles (except for innocent child, against which nothing is really good). Yes, the shots get refunded for vig and cop but in a game of this size, if you get roleblocked it's likely you won't even live the next night. For that reason, I think everyone should only vote for either godfather or framer and should not consider roleblocker.

Also, I don't think anyone should share exactly what role they are voting for, as mafia can than pick the blue roles that are worst against that role. So instead, when discussing what role to give mafia, I think everyone should just say the role that they don't want people to vote for (as it's too strong), still leaving open the possibility of two roles that they might choose between.


A lot of mafia's power in this setup comes from them being able to pick roles for town that are easily countered by the role they receive. If they don't know exactly what role they are getting, they can't do this.


I'm not buying this, Hiro. It was pretty clear from the thread that it was a discussion between framer and roleblocker. If you thought it was better to give mafia the framer, instead of roleblocker, why would you vote for the 3rd option? Also, why did/what made you change your mind about about your vote partway through D0?


On June 01 2012 04:39 Toadesstern wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

On June 01 2012 03:36 HiroPro wrote:
Key: KWUIR-KMBIV-QPGAY-CZTNK-BZSVT-ERHIS-YFULP-ZUYOK-GOKYP-TLBON-PIDIC-AAFXW

Choose Godfather, I did.


Show nested quote +
On May 31 2012 21:56 Sbrubbles wrote:
The mafia already know the voting results, fyi.

On May 29 2012 03:32 kitaman27 wrote:
The game will begin with a 24 hour selection phase. During this phase, the mafia team will select two roles for town. Additionally, the town will privately vote via PM on a single role for the mafia. If there is a tie, a random role from the tied roles will be selected. The selected roles will not be revealed, however the mafia team will be provided with the voting results.


Meh, I guess the encryption wasn't really that useful then. I thought it'd make it so that mafia have to guess on what votes to fake.


Kurumi: So what I get from your Radfield case is that you think he is scum because he tells everyone to pick Roleblocker even though it's a good role for scum? But I don't really follow that; while I think roleblocker is a strong role for mafia also, Radfield's argument was not bad. And I don't see this contradiction that you are talking about.


That's got to be a joke. Godfather? Why?!?! It was clear the decision would be either RB or framer at some point and you chose to pick Godfather and completly wasted your vote?
Someone explained (I think risk?) d0 that the only solution to not screw up as mafia is to pick 1-1-1. 1 guy votes RB, one guy votes framer, one guy picks GF because that way they add 1 to each thing and don't change a thing.

So wtf?


Maybe it was clear to you that the votes would only be between Framer and Roleblocker. It wasn't to me; not when the majority of people had not said what they were going to vote for. After Radfield made his argument on why Roleblocker was the best choice, I voted for roleblocker as I felt that Radfield made a good point on town gaining an advantage from knowing exactly what role mafia would get. I realized a little later though, that mafia would derive the exact same benefit if I followed Radfield's plan, so I changed my vote to the role that was worst for mafia in my opinion (godfather).

Well you've got to agree that it's looking weird that you are apparently the only one who voted GF when we talked about how 1-1-1 is the only way for mafia to not screw up and all the talk d0 was either about RB > framer or about framer > RB.
Why didn't you talk about this? This is essentially the same thing I was talking about in PYP when talking with risk.
I have no problem with people telling me they think otherwise and that we should change a "plan" but I do have a problem with people ninja-voting without telling us screwing us over.
If what you said is reasonable (and I don't think it is) you should have tried to explain to us why what you said is reasonable. Yet here you stand, voting GF and it's apparently not important enough to you what role mafia gets because you haven't told us so and you still voted GF and not, like everyone else either RB or framer. That's really odd.




On June 01 2012 03:45 Zephirdd wrote:
Hiro, why would you pick Godfather, aka the NULL vote?


On June 01 2012 03:59 Zephirdd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2012 03:54 HiroPro wrote:
Because I felt that it's the weakest role, as it's only really effective against tracker (since gf can send kills himself). GF is immune to cop, but it doesn't protect the other members of the team and it can't introduce false positives. And since cop in this setup only has 1 shot, they will most likely be using it on someone who feel has a strong chance of being scum and a positive result is pretty much a confirmation then without framer. And of course it does nothing to any of the other roles.


Great, and why didn't you provide these arguments during the day we had to actually choose GF? Why did you just let the framers/roleblockers go and not fight for your argument? Why keep it down and suddenly pop out with this?


On June 01 2012 04:32 Sbrubbles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2012 04:02 HiroPro wrote:
On June 01 2012 03:59 Zephirdd wrote:
On June 01 2012 03:54 HiroPro wrote:
Because I felt that it's the weakest role, as it's only really effective against tracker (since gf can send kills himself). GF is immune to cop, but it doesn't protect the other members of the team and it can't introduce false positives. And since cop in this setup only has 1 shot, they will most likely be using it on someone who feel has a strong chance of being scum and a positive result is pretty much a confirmation then without framer. And of course it does nothing to any of the other roles.


Great, and why didn't you provide these arguments during the day we had to actually choose GF? Why did you just let the framers/roleblockers go and not fight for your argument? Why keep it down and suddenly pop out with this?



On May 30 2012 11:52 HiroPro wrote:
All of the mafia roles are "anti-blue" roles and pretty useless otherwise. Now out of the three mafia roles, roleblocker looks to be the most powerful to me, as it is effective against all of the blue roles (except for innocent child, against which nothing is really good). Yes, the shots get refunded for vig and cop but in a game of this size, if you get roleblocked it's likely you won't even live the next night. For that reason, I think everyone should only vote for either godfather or framer and should not consider roleblocker.

Also, I don't think anyone should share exactly what role they are voting for, as mafia can than pick the blue roles that are worst against that role. So instead, when discussing what role to give mafia, I think everyone should just say the role that they don't want people to vote for (as it's too strong), still leaving open the possibility of two roles that they might choose between.


A lot of mafia's power in this setup comes from them being able to pick roles for town that are easily countered by the role they receive. If they don't know exactly what role they are getting, they can't do this.


I'm not buying this, Hiro. It was pretty clear from the thread that it was a discussion between framer and roleblocker. If you thought it was better to give mafia the framer, instead of roleblocker, why would you vote for the 3rd option? Also, why did/what made you change your mind about about your vote partway through D0?


On June 02 2012 07:00 Sbrubbles wrote:
First of all, one thing we've got to remember is that we can only afford 1 NL, and it's better that we use it up later and not sooner. If worse comes to worse, with no NL and no doc saves, we may reach a day 5 mylo, which should be NL followed by lylo day 6 (with the plus side that we can pick and waste whatever poison we want day 5, since it will be NL).

Lynching Nautillus would be going for a lurker lynch and I don't think we have to resort to that yet. Also, between lurkers, I'd rather lynch risk.nuke, whose only contribution was to throw dirt and dissapear without any explanation:

+ Show Spoiler +
On June 01 2012 22:02 risk.nuke wrote:
I am pleased with radfield and I no longer want to make radpie.
On the other hand I believe we could vastly benefit from shortening hiro by a head, turning sloosh into slush and murdering zepphird.


Hiro simply hasn't posted anything since back then. His behaviour was reasonably active on D0, so I don't buy that it wasn't clear to him "that the votes would only be between Framer and Roleblocker". His case on Zephirdd was that Zephirdd hadn't contributed to the discussion, though Zephirdd was asking questions, like Sloosh was doing, which is a reasonable way to get discussion going early on. Hiro's filter before that case, though, consisted of just as little discussion, except for mechanics talk, which mafia can also do. He is playing scummy and we should lynch him today.

##Vote: HiroPro

@Sloosh: The point is not that he voted GF, but that he voted GF while saying that he preferred framer over roleblocker (and changed his vote from roleblocker not to framer, but to GF).


Defending zephirdd:

On June 02 2012 10:38 Sbrubbles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2012 10:24 HiroPro wrote:
Navillus: I think most of the points that Radfield talks about in his case on Navillus are correct. Navillus did not contribute much during the setup phase and he has barely said anything on day 1. In the post where he votes, Navillus's behavior is really strange. He votes for Zephirdd but yet at the same time expresses concern that Zephirdd's behavior may be indicative of a newer player. Not only is Navillus unwilling to go through Zephirdd's profile and check out his game history, but he is also voting for someone who he seems to be personally unsure of....

Sbrubbles: If his reasons for voting for me are what he really believes (which appears true for me), then he looks town to me. He contributed thoughts of his own during setup and seemed generally straightforward and open today. I am not willing to vote for him right now.

I would like you to answer this question, though Sbrubbles. I can understand why you did not vote for Zephirdd based on my case (You think I am scum), but why is it that you completely ignored the case that talismania brought? I pointed this out before along with my feelings on the flaws in your reasoning regarding Zephirdd, but you ignored it.


If what prplhz and Radfield say regarding Zephirdd's status as a blue is correct, then he is not a good lynch for today. I will expect more from him tomorrow, though. Radfield's case on Navillus is solid - I am voting for Navillus.

Vote: Navillus


Of talis' case on Zephirdd, I just didn't see it. First and third parts are just Zephirdd attacking using meta-accusations (which 9 times out of 10 I ignore) and second part was pressuring you (who I also wanted to pressure). He was attacking everyone, but at least it looked like he was trying to get the ball rolling.

+ Show Spoiler +
On June 01 2012 13:01 talismania wrote:
If both truly are red herrings, they're likely good things for scum to try and latch onto and drive momentum towards. With that in mind, consider zepphird:

First he kind of fishes around on Radfield:

Show nested quote +
On May 31 2012 11:25 Zephirdd wrote:
errr there is more to say, actually. First,
On May 30 2012 20:16 Zephirdd wrote:
##### Encrypted: decrypt with http://www.fourmilab.ch/javascrypt/
?b644rKEia/eqd8/fjaSJjh8ft+Ga2gbCDQcJnm8znA4gWzcXOVmbpSKHpLLxCLj
ZCIAhqK1EmupAZoQfMKGr/kI1rDlO2chS6Vn8sr52uJtCPk=?64b
##### End encrypted message

I'll release the key after the deadline. This is the role I voted for mafia.

I suggest that everyone do this, so we know which role mafia has after the deadline.


The key is "zephirdd" and when using it to decrypt, the phrase is "I picked Framer for the mafia". Kurumi's reasonings convinced me much more than Radfield's.

Also, I don't like that Radfield was initially against registering votes pre-deadline. The Rad I know doesn't just "skim" by what people say.

Still, his town meta is "too town to be town", and here is just... normal town. Or rather, near null. That makes him red in my eyes.

Discuss.



Then he drives the HiroPro story a bit:

Show nested quote +
On June 01 2012 03:45 Zephirdd wrote:
Hiro, why would you pick Godfather, aka the NULL vote?



Show nested quote +
On June 01 2012 03:59 Zephirdd wrote:
On June 01 2012 03:54 HiroPro wrote:
Because I felt that it's the weakest role, as it's only really effective against tracker (since gf can send kills himself). GF is immune to cop, but it doesn't protect the other members of the team and it can't introduce false positives. And since cop in this setup only has 1 shot, they will most likely be using it on someone who feel has a strong chance of being scum and a positive result is pretty much a confirmation then without framer. And of course it does nothing to any of the other roles.


Great, and why didn't you provide these arguments during the day we had to actually choose GF? Why did you just let the framers/roleblockers go and not fight for your argument? Why keep it down and suddenly pop out with this?


Then, after no one else is jumping on Radfield, he jumps off and hints at looking at Kurumi (who made the Radfield case):

Show nested quote +
On June 01 2012 10:36 Zephirdd wrote:
Hm, looking at Holy Roman, Kurumi seems to be much more careful on this game(ie. serious). Like wbg said, (if we take Holy Roman as Kurumi's town meta) his town meta is to troll. Anyone has more town games from Kurumi to analyze, and possibly scum games as well?

I also retract any "accusation" I may have had about Radfield. He seems clean enough for me atm.

Why are you guys not posting more? I hate lynching lurkers.


There's almost too much of it to be true but on first blow, to me, it is indicative of scum trying to get a feel for the way winds are blowing in the town, hence the FoS.





On June 02 2012 08:09 Toadesstern wrote:
Ok we need to get people in here. It's 1 am for me and I don't know how long I'll be awake.

A zephird lynch still looks awful for me. Hiros voting him, risk is voting him, navillus is voting him. There's bound to be a mafia within those 3 and Kurumi and talis are nulls for me. That's really not as convincing as people make it look and we have 3 hours left...



On toad and risk.nuke:

On June 04 2012 10:53 Zephirdd wrote:
Hey guys I'm back. skimmed through the thread but I grasped the idea.

First of all, I love Toad's AtE. I used that on Sleeper Cell II and we ended up in a draw(when it should have been an obvious scum win T_T). AtE = Appeal to Emotion

Different games are different; If Radfield finds reasons to push Toadesstern every game, he is right to push Toadesstern every game. However I disagree on the "scumslip": Saying "see you on day2" isn't indicative of alignment at all in my opinion. It's not a slip, it's not "knowing you will live". It's just saying it.

However, other points still stand: Toadesstern's cases aren't good. They fit the scumagenda. Saying HiroPro had "basically claimed mafia", the wbg case, etc.



I don't think Toad is the right lynch target right now though. Have you guys seen risk.nuke?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=340727&user=76576
^his amazing filter.

1. Read it(it's short guys, you probably would read it faster than you could read Radfield's case on prplhz)
2. Search for anything that makes sense from a town perspective
3. Laugh at it
4. Vote him

In case it's not obvious, what you find in this filter is blatant sheeping, lack of substance and terrible logic for pushing a mislynch(which would be my lynch). Besides, his lack of activity is gigantic; Not only that, but he is not showing his overconfidence of his town self. I mean, he usually just does whatever the f* he wants, throws accusations at people and show confidence. Here he is sheeping people and pointing fingers at everyone(look at his hiro/sloosh/zephirdd post).

Lynch risk!



On June 04 2012 20:25 Sbrubbles wrote:
Hey guys, I'm here. Weekend was a bit crazy for me. Lemme comment on the current topics:

On prplhz's case, I dissagree that his argument, on making sure mafia knew they were getting roleblocker so that we'd be sure of what they have, was scummy. I still think it is wrong, but I saw merit in Rad's case for it.
Prplhz posting D1 (pre-Nav switch) was null to me (he pressured wbg based on meta and voted for me without much of an argument). Not the best way to conduct discussion by far, but it didn't feel like he was actively trying to mislead.
I do think his Nav switch was funky though. His argument boils down to "I want a lynch. I didn't want to before because the last game he lurked, came back saying he was sorry and was town. Now he doesn't look like he's sorry".
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 02 2012 09:02 prplhz wrote:
Blues always say stuff like "It's really not a good idea to lynch me." and "Trust me on this one." and "Town shouldn't lynch me."

I don't know how I manage to miss it all the time.

I'm most likely joining a Navilus lynch because I want a lynch Before, he was just being afk and his day0 actions didn't look too different from everybody else. I played with him before when he was town and afk, and when he came back he was really sorry about it (and wrote a huge post explaining exactly why he was afk). He doesn't look remorseful at all here, that post looks like he wants any sort of heat off of him and hopes that I'll just keep defending him 'cause that's what I did before.

Well I'm not gonna. I'm not all convinced about this but it's the best we can realistically achieve today I think.

##Unvote Sbrubbles
##Vote Navilus


Thinking on Toad, I agree with most of Rad's case. It was strange him suddenly calling wbg scum D1 (without an explanation, after treating him as null) and that it was odd for him to be focusing so much on the fact that prplhz defended Nav. I don't see "see you D2" as a scumslip.

Right now I'm leaning more scum on Toad than on prplhz, but, that said, I think risk.nuke is our best lynch for today:

1) His D1 is comprised of accusing a total of 4 people, without explanations,
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 01 2012 22:02 risk.nuke wrote:
I am pleased with radfield and I no longer want to make radpie.
On the other hand I believe we could vastly benefit from shortening hiro by a head, turning sloosh into slush and murdering zepphird.

+ Show Spoiler +
On May 31 2012 02:54 risk.nuke wrote:
Dearest Kurumi, I am Mr. Lovett. lets make some Radpie.

2) Followed by him pushing Zeph during N1. This smells of a scum push because 1) his reasons aren't clear (he poses the Zeph lynch as both an information lynch and a scum lynch) and 2) uses the mafia kill, which is a minefield of wifom, as his primary argument (using it as an additional argument is doable, but this is not the case), which, actually, is the only argument he chooses to discuss.
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 03 2012 23:50 risk.nuke wrote:
I think we should lynch zephirdd for two reasons.
1. It will shed light on the voteswitch. It is infact very important that we learn zephirdds aligntment or we'll just stab ourselves in the foot if he turns out to be town.
2. Wbg was for lynching 3 people. Myself, Navillus and Zephirdd (And kurumi who he might not have pushed for because he didn't think he could get him lynched). Wbg was killed which indicates that the mafia believed he was on to something. Knowing that I am town, Navillus is town that leaves Zephirdd (and Kurumi).


Also, @Radfield,

Show nested quote +
On June 04 2012 05:19 Radfield wrote:
Sbrubbles, you mentioned that Hiropro preferred framer to godfather on D0, but I don't see it. Care to help me out?


I mentioned he preferred framer to roleblocker, not to godfather.










HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
June 09 2012 01:59 GMT
#693
I am fairly sure that Sbrubbles is mafia. Please read my case if you didn't already do so. And the fact that risk.nuke agreed only bolsters my belief. In terms of my other reads, I'm confident in sloOsh being town. Toad made such a hard push on prplhz and I was leaning town from his play before that in general, so I think he is town.


Roleblocker
Nav
Radfield
risk.nuke



Framer
wherebugsgo



in question:
sbrubbles - framer
kurumi - framer
zephirdd - framer
talismania - RB
sloosh - framer


2 people from the above group are mafia and thus their votes do not count. If it's 2 framers who are lying, then we should definitely have a roleblocker. Thing is, no one has been roleblocked. If that is the case tomorrow also, then we probably have a framer. If we have a framer, that means talismania is mafia, as it is impossible for there to be a framer if talismania is telling the truth. Thing is I don't think he's mafia at all. Mafia might be hiding the fact that they have a roleblocker as they don't feel it's valuable to use. Probably best to trust Radfield's read, there's nothing except the vote count that makes me think talismania is scum, and I had a slight town read on him early on.

Kurumi and Zephirdd are kind of hard for me to read. I think last scum is between them. Oh, I think Zephirdd's reasons for thinking slOosh is scum are bad, btw. Leaning towards Zephirdd as scum.

If I die, I think the best course of action is to: everyone roleclaim, use whatever info you get from that, and lynch sbrubbles.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 09 2012 02:01 GMT
#694
P.s. I got no written out case on Kurumi, it was a hunch. I just wanted to see where the night hit went. I still think Sbrubbles is scum (since D1).
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9244 Posts
June 09 2012 02:01 GMT
#695
Day post incoming shortly
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9244 Posts
June 09 2012 02:18 GMT
#696
Day 4

[image loading]


Following the death of risk.nuke, the town was full of despair. Their numbers became fewer and fewer as the mafia team picked them off one by one. Zephirdd was the latest victim in a series of brutal murders. Hope was nearly lost, when a child's laughter broke the silence. Everyone looked upon slOosh's face and became inspired to fight for a better tomorrow.

zephirdd the vanilla townie has been killed.

slOosh the innocent child has appeared.

A mayoral election has been announced for the next cycle. You have 48 hours.
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 09 2012 02:20 GMT
#697
Hey guys I'm the Innocent Child. I breadcrumbed my role here
On June 09 2012 11:18 kitaman27 wrote:
slOosh the innocent child has appeared.

Vote for me and I will lynch Sbrubbles and we can spend the rest of this day finding last scum.
Barbiero
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Brazil5259 Posts
June 09 2012 02:21 GMT
#698
go town :p
♥ The world needs more hearts! ♥
slOosh
Profile Joined October 2009
3291 Posts
June 09 2012 02:33 GMT
#699
On June 09 2012 08:39 HiroPro wrote:
I get an error. Can you just post the original thing.

It translates to
+ Show Spoiler +
Zephirdd is vigilante. Sloosh is tracker. Prplhz played quite good town game. Hiro too. Sbrubbles and talismania are scum. Talismania is much more likely to hold the role though. Yeah I know I basically stopped playing after N1... Sorry about this guys. I've read the thread but couldn't get any thoughts grouped together. Talismania is a really good player, in Space Station I got him as Town really fast D1, I was so sure in my read (which was correct, obviously) I gave him my vet power. This game... He never pushes a lynch himself. He is in the backstage of this game. If you are still thinking this balance vet thing, there you go. Talismania+Toad = 2 good players for scum and Sbrubbles as an add. Rad and WBG for Town. I am not good, just lucky sometimes and I have plenty of pebbles to throw around. Scum were setting up my lynch from the very beginning and wbg was only helping them for some reason. Probably bored too. Sloosh talks a little too much about Tracker and he slips about his existence in his last post. Tomorrow it's 3v2, your last chance. Win Town.

While I don't agree about the vet balance thing (in the sense that I will never consider it a legitimate analytical tool), I do agree that talismania is worth a really good look into (like I consider him a top candidate for 3rd scum material).
HiroPro
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2624 Posts
June 09 2012 02:42 GMT
#700
Hm, I'm not sure about that breadcrumb. It looks a bit fishy. And there's no way slOosh looks like that picture

So we obviously elect slOosh. I agree with lynching Sbrubbles today.

Zephirdd is obviously not scum now lol. But I'm not sure about Kurumi being scum tbh. I was expecting a prplhz kill today, and it kind of looks to me like Zephirdd being killed just sets up a Kurumi lynch. I need to go over talismania's filter again and look at his previous games. I do remember noticing that he didn't make any real cases or reads - he spent most of his time doing connection stuff.

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