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Just made an account here precisely for this reason as well.
I have watched Dragon stream for a long time. He is always a very good natured and open caster. He doesn't just seem like a very good, creative and entertaining player to watch, but also like a very good person.
I am aware of what happened after he left Slayers, but he has been working hard to rebuild that trust. He streams all his games now so everyone can see what he sees. My personal feeling is that he is afraid of losing and can get nervous in tournaments, and this was maybe why he did what he did. It is not an excuse, but maybe a reason why a decent player made the wrong choice at one point.
I feel at this point that making 10 jokes about it during a tournament is a cheap kick to the groin. I am also disappointed that the "apology" was just "I am surprised and sorry that you all became so angry when I was trolling you". Maybe another apology came after that, I left the stream.
That said, since there should be room for forgiving, I think we should also be able to forgive Katu.
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Also, I don't think calling for Katu to kill himself, or to be killed, etc. is the proper way to go about solving this issue. Something this event has proven is that Dragon has a huge portion of very immature fans (something I think to be brought about by the nature of his play). Furthermore, Playhem is currently streaming another show which is being completely derailed by Dragon's fans. If you want to accuse someone of unprofessional-ism, try to do it in a professional way.
Fair enough but... I'm not entirely sure how this get's turned around and becomes the viewers fault. The whole issue wouldn't have existed without his behavior in the first place. It's not his place to ref the match or manage lag but it is his place to cast in a responsible professional manner, which is not something he did. I'm not even one of dragons fans and I took issue with his comments, as did some of your own casters. Overall I think most of the community would take issue. Some would say pointing fingers back is just as immature, I guess this discussion is done though.
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On February 28 2012 14:59 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 14:25 deathgod6 wrote:
These casters are so unprofessional. On Dragon's stream, he was clearly lagging badly. However, he did not ask for pause or say anything and tried to calm himself saying it was okay. He was just making the best of the situation and was too proud or maybe unclear whether it was okay to ask for spectators to leave or whatever. Viewers of Dragon's stream then were saying on Playhem's chat that Dragon was lagging.
Upon reading this, Katu says "Yah, he lost apparently because of lag, not because of building three CC's against a roach all-in. *snickers* Even if he did lag, and I'm not implying stream cheating, what are reasons he would lag?" Katu later goes on and just blatantly implies that Dragon was stream cheating and using his past history as evidence, even though the build Dragon did during the game wouldn't make any sense if he was. I don't want to say any specific names, but there are other professional SC2 players currently who have a history with cheating but have fixed their ways and are revered players.
Katu then forgets about actually casting the second game and reads the chat instead, laughing at how angry people are at how he trashed Dragon. Then he mockingly says that he might as well officially state that Dragon is stream cheating. He then laughs during the cast and types in the Playhem.tv chat strings of "HAHAHAHA". He finds that his ego is more important than acting like a professional caster.
As a long time member of TL, I find that this episode of casting is extremely disrespectful and childish. When a player is suffering from lag while streaming their play, why is it the caster's responsibility to glance at chat (a common place for people to state facts such as "Day[9] Died") and then pause the game? In any other tournament environment (the standard everyone is currently upholding Katu to) it is the player's responsibility to request pauses. Also, I don't think calling for Katu to kill himself, or to be killed, etc. is the proper way to go about solving this issue. Something this event has proven is that Dragon has a huge portion of very immature fans (something I think to be brought about by the nature of his play). Furthermore, Playhem is currently streaming another show which is being completely derailed by Dragon's fans. If you want to accuse someone of unprofessional-ism, try to do it in a professional way. As someone who employs Katu for multiple events, I have spoken to him and warned him that anything like that is completely unacceptable in my events. However, I will not be suspending his casting for any of my events as he is, despite one moment of rash behavior, one of the best casters around. I think something people need to realize that everyone makes mistakes and overall, Katu is still a great caster.
Okay, let's break down your response.
When a player is suffering from lag while streaming their play, why is it the caster's responsibility to glance at chat (a common place for people to state facts such as "Day[9] Died") and then pause the game? In any other tournament environment (the standard everyone is currently upholding Katu to) it is the player's responsibility to request pauses.
I never blamed Katu nor the casters that it was their fault that Dragon was lagging. I never called that they should replay game 1. I was merely providing background on the events that I would be discussing.
Also, I don't think calling for Katu to kill himself, or to be killed, etc. is the proper way to go about solving this issue. Something this event has proven is that Dragon has a huge portion of very immature fans (something I think to be brought about by the nature of his play). Furthermore, Playhem is currently streaming another show which is being completely derailed by Dragon's fans. If you want to accuse someone of unprofessional-ism, try to do it in a professional way.
Okay, did you even read my message? I never said anything about "Katu killing himself" nor said anything that should be done to him, although personally I think he should be suspended at least. Dragon may have immature fans, but I am not one of them. I am not watching your other show so I would not know anything about that chat being derailed. How was my post of the series of events not written in a professional way? On the contrary, you accusing me of things I did not say is very unprofessional. You are generalizing me and my statement in your broad view of "Dragon fans" and I think you have failed to read my post correctly.
As someone who employs Katu for multiple events, I have spoken to him and warned him that anything like that is completely unacceptable in my events. However, I will not be suspending his casting for any of my events as he is, despite one moment of rash behavior, one of the best casters around. I think something people need to realize that everyone makes mistakes and overall, Katu is still a great caster.
As I stated before, I personally think that Katu should be punished but that is not up to me. I also failed the mention that Katu falsely stated as he was legitimately trying to explain his side that Dragon got kicked out of Slayers and is banned from events for cheating. What does that say about Playhem then, that it allows blatant and known stream cheaters in their events? Obviously not, but that shows the logic of one of "the best casters around."
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VirgilSC2, Katu was obviously in the wrong and you trying to justify it by saying that Dragon's fans are immature and rabid is just laughable. You not even reading my post and accusing me of being unprofessional about my statement also reflects on your judgment.
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I was one of the ones asking for a pause during game 1 as well. But not really expecting one, because I know that is the responsibility of the player himself.
Let's all try to forgive. 
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On February 28 2012 15:14 deathgod6 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 14:59 VirgilSC2 wrote:On February 28 2012 14:25 deathgod6 wrote:
These casters are so unprofessional. On Dragon's stream, he was clearly lagging badly. However, he did not ask for pause or say anything and tried to calm himself saying it was okay. He was just making the best of the situation and was too proud or maybe unclear whether it was okay to ask for spectators to leave or whatever. Viewers of Dragon's stream then were saying on Playhem's chat that Dragon was lagging.
Upon reading this, Katu says "Yah, he lost apparently because of lag, not because of building three CC's against a roach all-in. *snickers* Even if he did lag, and I'm not implying stream cheating, what are reasons he would lag?" Katu later goes on and just blatantly implies that Dragon was stream cheating and using his past history as evidence, even though the build Dragon did during the game wouldn't make any sense if he was. I don't want to say any specific names, but there are other professional SC2 players currently who have a history with cheating but have fixed their ways and are revered players.
Katu then forgets about actually casting the second game and reads the chat instead, laughing at how angry people are at how he trashed Dragon. Then he mockingly says that he might as well officially state that Dragon is stream cheating. He then laughs during the cast and types in the Playhem.tv chat strings of "HAHAHAHA". He finds that his ego is more important than acting like a professional caster.
As a long time member of TL, I find that this episode of casting is extremely disrespectful and childish. When a player is suffering from lag while streaming their play, why is it the caster's responsibility to glance at chat (a common place for people to state facts such as "Day[9] Died") and then pause the game? In any other tournament environment (the standard everyone is currently upholding Katu to) it is the player's responsibility to request pauses. Also, I don't think calling for Katu to kill himself, or to be killed, etc. is the proper way to go about solving this issue. Something this event has proven is that Dragon has a huge portion of very immature fans (something I think to be brought about by the nature of his play). Furthermore, Playhem is currently streaming another show which is being completely derailed by Dragon's fans. If you want to accuse someone of unprofessional-ism, try to do it in a professional way. As someone who employs Katu for multiple events, I have spoken to him and warned him that anything like that is completely unacceptable in my events. However, I will not be suspending his casting for any of my events as he is, despite one moment of rash behavior, one of the best casters around. I think something people need to realize that everyone makes mistakes and overall, Katu is still a great caster. Okay, let's break down your response. Show nested quote + When a player is suffering from lag while streaming their play, why is it the caster's responsibility to glance at chat (a common place for people to state facts such as "Day[9] Died") and then pause the game? In any other tournament environment (the standard everyone is currently upholding Katu to) it is the player's responsibility to request pauses. I never blamed Katu nor the casters that it was their fault that Dragon was lagging. I never called that they should replay game 1. I was merely providing background on the events that I would be discussing. Show nested quote +
Also, I don't think calling for Katu to kill himself, or to be killed, etc. is the proper way to go about solving this issue. Something this event has proven is that Dragon has a huge portion of very immature fans (something I think to be brought about by the nature of his play). Furthermore, Playhem is currently streaming another show which is being completely derailed by Dragon's fans. If you want to accuse someone of unprofessional-ism, try to do it in a professional way. Okay, did you even read what I typed? I never said anything like that about Katu nor said anything that should be done to him, although personally I think he should be suspended at least. Dragon may have immature fans, but I am not one of them. I am not watching your other show so I would not know anything about that chat being derailed. How was my post of the series of events not written in a professional way? On the contrary, you accusing me of things I did not say is very unprofessional. Show nested quote +As someone who employs Katu for multiple events, I have spoken to him and warned him that anything like that is completely unacceptable in my events. However, I will not be suspending his casting for any of my events as he is, despite one moment of rash behavior, one of the best casters around. I think something people need to realize that everyone makes mistakes and overall, Katu is still a great caster. As I stated before, I personally think that Katu should be punished but that is not up to me. I also failed the mention that Katu falsely stated as he was legitimately trying to explain his side that Dragon got kicked out of Slayers and is banned from events for cheating. What does that say about Playhem then, that it allows blatant and known stream cheaters in their events? Obviously not, but that shows the logic of one of "the best casters around."
A majority of the comments in my post were not directed at you, but the situation in general. I had thought that the fact I was referring to things that occurred, but were not part of your post would have been clear enough to state that. I did not accuse you of anything.
Yes, Katu did incorrectly cite Dragon's past history as a stream-cheater as the reason for his separation from the SlayerS clan, which was very unprofessional, and potentially very damaging. However, something I've noticed that many Dragon fans seem to be unaware of, is his past offenses. I think the reaction this situation is generating is entirely uncalled for, as the situation has been addressed and is being dealt with by the parties involved.
Furthermore, as it might be necessary to state with this fanbase, I do not share any affiliations with Playhem.
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Lots of 1-10 post accounts in the last couple of pages. Is there any Vod's of this incident that I can see this seems like quite the witch-hunt.
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Katu made a mistake, we get it. Calm down. He didn't realize people would misinterpret his trolling and that his audience had expanded to a ton of Dragon fans who would get on his case about it. He also probably took the trolling a little too far. His words were clearly not ill-intentioned or meant to be taken seriously in any way, so stop overreacting.
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On February 28 2012 14:32 Psylence wrote:
As a caster for the Playhem Daily, I can say that everyone at Playhem treats each player with the utmost respect. Katu had an oversight with his comments and it was unfortunate.
We do not disrepect players at all
Unfortunately Katu just took it a little too far this time.
Please do not let this reflect on the rest of us casters and please forgive Katu for his obvious misstep.
This is idiotic. Katu clearly disproved this. Katu's idiocy doesn't reflect on the rest of you, but stating "[Katu] treats each player with the utmost respect" and "[Katu does] not disrespect players at all" is demonstrably false, and does reflect on you. As a viewer of the Playhem Daily, I can say that with respect to Katu's cast tonight, you're clearly wrong. And assuming that you've actually viewed the cast, you're lying as well.
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@VirgilSC2, if you're going to speak to the general public, that is fine. However, if you are going to quote someone's statement then speak about that statement itself and not a generalization because your response seemed addressed particularly towards me.
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stop calling what katu did "trolling", he was beeing straight up ignorant and BM. not what u expect of a caster of any sort. the community should all embrace the idea of spreading esports out to the people, and therefore demand people representing this lovely scene in a proper professional way. in no other scene would this behavior be suitable and the sc2 community should not defend this behavior as "trolling"
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On February 28 2012 15:25 Rainling wrote:
Katu made a mistake, we get it. Calm down. He didn't realize people would misinterpret his trolling and that his audience had expanded to a ton of Dragon fans who would get on his case about it. He also probably took the trolling a little too far. His words were clearly not ill-intentioned or meant to be taken seriously in any way, so stop overreacting.
Not clearly enough, apparently, so stop underreacting. Would you prefer that he not get called out on it?
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Yikes that is pretty bad, he doesnt even sound like he is joking, I can understand the outrage.
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On February 28 2012 15:31 deathgod6 wrote:
@VirgilSC2, if you're going to speak to the general public, that is fine. However, if you are going to quote someone's statement then speak about that statement itself and not a generalization because your response seemed addressed particularly towards me.
The immediate portion following the post was in direct response to your post, the rest was not. I'm honestly not quite sure how to make it much clearer without explicitly stating it.
It's not the first time someone has misread something I've posted and jumped to conclusions, don't worry.
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On February 28 2012 15:32 nilotto wrote:
stop calling what katu did "trolling", he was beeing straight up ignorant and BM. not what u expect of a caster of any sort. the community should all embrace the idea of spreading esports out to the people, and therefore demand people representing this lovely scene in a proper professional way. in no other scene would this behavior be suitable and the sc2 community should not defend this behavior as "trolling"
According to Wikipedia:
"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."
What he was doing was the definition of trolling. It was intended to provoke an emotional response from the chat. AKA feigning ignorance for the purpose of being bad mannered. Basically, he made mistakes in terms of the quantity and manner of his trolling.
This was clearly not respectful to Dragon or his fans, but my point is it was an honest mistake. He never intended to imply that anything that he was saying was actually true.
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get called out by angry fans, try to say you were just trolling to fix things lol
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So he purposely said comments that he knew would infuriate the viewers and then followed that up by laughing at their rage. That is trolling and sounds like a totally legitimate thing that a professional caster should be doing.
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lol, watch the stream, at around 4:06:00 he says something about dragon dont go to events because of "something" and thats why he aint in slayers no more, he then continues to say that fans should go on living in their fantasy world, cause all he saying is the truth. so he obviously belives this, but i would prefer he dont say things like that without checking that his story match up with what actually happened.
sorry if my point has a hard time going through, english is not my primary language
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EPT
