PlayhemTV, the official stream and channel for all things Playhem related. We're committed to providing nothing but the highest level of games and production quality to the eSports scene, and set our standards for excellence just as high when we have 200 viewers as when we have 10,000.
Our open tournament, unlike the rest of our daily tournaments, is not restricted for lower leagues. The games we stream daily are mostly high level masters, grand masters, and pro players from our EU and NA daily tournaments as well as show matches, special events, and other SC2 related content. We put out an average of 8 hours of live stream every single day, 7 days a week. All of our casters are carefully picked and auditioned before ever getting the chance to go on stream, so you can be assured a LAN-quality stream and commentary at every single game.
Caster's expected airing dates will be shown here so you can follow your favorites and know when to tune in! (these may change last minute without notice when the need arises, but we'll try not to!)
Once a week on Sundays, Playhem holds a Best of 7 show match between 2 amazing players from the Starcraft II community, chosen by us based on fan suggestions and current standings/popularity among eSports events. Links to our past show matches will be listed here:
Contacting Playhem(TV): E-mail: ben@playhem.com Starcraft II: Ben.477 US | Ben.1125 EU Battle.net channels: Playhem, Playhem1, Playhem2 or Playhem3 (channels fill up fast)
Current Caster Roster: Frodan Dan Chou Kibbelz Andrew Dunne Lyrlian Kaj Landman Katu Kevin Albert Robin Tim Frazier NerdSwagger Spencer Thompson Bonk Michael Egolf StarcraftAlaska Shane Rideout Psylence Braiden Watling JoRoSaR John Sargent
PlayhemTV is the official streaming channel for www.playhem.com. We organize daily tournaments for NA & EU, Show matches, and other events and PlayhemTV is the channel we live cast the games on.
When are the tournaments played, and what can I win?
Anything that has to do with our live streaming channel on twitch.tv. Examples:
-Quality of our stream (sound&video) -Maps we use -Casters -Music or graphics we use during our stream
Highlight Videos: Highlight videos uploaded either to our YouTube or twitch channel will be posted here. These will be either exceptional games from our daily tournaments, show matches, or just exciting or interesting 1-2 minute clips from any of our streams. The games posted will only be the ones we find to be outstanding and worth watching, while all the full VODs of our tournaments will be available in our Twitch video history.
Epic Archon Toilet - roxkisSlivko (Z) vs EGAxslav (P) Ace Match + Show Spoiler +
Playhem $75 Daily: Tarra (P) vs InCuserstupi (Z) Super Drop Play + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOv3yQgMCJU
Playhem $75 Daily: EGStrifeCro (Z) vs coLDrewbie (T) + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THWP_BjPID0
EGAxslav's Amazing Force Fields against EGMachine + Show Spoiler +
Playhem $75 Daily: viOlet (Z) vs coLMVPTAiLS (P) semi-finals Daybreak + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb4Oy_UoAYw
Playhem $75 Daily: viOlet (Z) vs coLMVPTAiLS (P) Base Race + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3CwOWroOAg
Playhem $75 Daily: EGAxslav (P) vs EGMachine (Z) Antiga Shipyard + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WWr5hDZ_M8
Playhem $75 Daily: GoSuHwangSin (P) vs ClashPresto (Z) Metalopolis + Show Spoiler +
Playhem $75 Daily: VTgiX (Z) vs GoSuHwangSin (P) Antiga Shipyard + Show Spoiler +
Playhem $75 Daily: EGAxslav (P) vs iSMentalist (P) Shakuras Plateau + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StDnlrMFWIo
Playhem $75 Daily: CoreaProS (P) vs iSMentalist (P) Bo3 Finals + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb9GGW_gzwo
Playhem $75 Daily: ePiBingO (P) vs ZeNEXAvenge (P) Best of 3 + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bDQW4R4Rv0
More coming soon..
Color Mod - Yay or Nay? Information about the mod:+ Show Spoiler +
The color mod makes player colors more noticeable so it's easier to tell units apart in close battles such as ling/bane zvz, here is a link to the thread and a sample screenshot comparison: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216725 Before After
Frodan and Robin are amazing. Coming from a Halo and console/competitive gaming background, I feel a connection to them every time they reference the good ol' days
Great SC2 casters and they both have a ton of knowledge of eSports history
On November 11 2011 13:32 CJAfrO wrote: Well, nothing different to say... this guys are AWESOME, amazing stream...they have alot of humor, they are committed with what they do and they definitely deserve a greater number of audience!!
that's it, i hope the people continue with the support and GREAT JOB GUYS!
nothing more to say... REGARDS FROM CHILE!!!
Srsly - What else is there to say^^? [a bunch of synonyms for "awesome"] - So - with that, yeah, I can think of about a million nice things to say - but they all boil down to the same thing:
I LOVE StarCraft, and I LOVE the surrounding community(ies). There are 'okay' streams, good streams, great... etc... and I tend to gravitate toward the ones with the most personable personalities and quality streams. Playhem = those star qualities :D
Usually I'm long-winded with feedback posts, but I'd just be repeating myself here. It's great that there are so many open tournaments - stream looks great and doesn't lag - casters are excellent, and constantly listening to the community and improving -
Keep up the great work, good people of Playhem. <3 what you're doing.
wow, every time I fillow the Dailys I struggle trying to find the bracketts, wheather I watch it on Axslav's stream or on Playhem's stream
I hope this thread gets used everyday from now on to talk about any daily, or showmatch or whatever, so ppl don't get lost between so many Playhem thingies . And I hope this gets updated always too
The thing that i enjoy about playhem and its casters is they way they interact with the community, all the casters communicate with the audience, the barrier that usually exists between the audience and the casters/streamers is gone on playhem.
I like to put up the PlayhemTV stream 10-20 mins before the cast (and after during our periodic post-tournament shenanigans!) to play some music. If you would like to request a song, post it on this thread
PlayhemTV is pretty great stream to watch. Especially the 75$ daily get to see some camio of some great players like EGaxslav and machine. The casters are straightforward, entertaining and create a lot of intensity for these daily tournaments.
Well, nothing different to say... this guys are AWESOME, amazing stream...they have alot of humor, they are committed with what they do and they definitely deserve a greater number of audience!!
that's it, i hope the people continue with the support and GREAT JOB GUYS!
On November 14 2011 12:45 Shaok wrote: Moderators in the chat are ridiculous. Talking trash about the players in the showmatch as well as casters...
Just a heads up, don't talk about the game or you'll get timed out in their chat.
Keep it up Frodan, remember you from way back at MLG forums.
Not sure which stream you were watching, but "don't disrespect any player" is the rule we uphold above all others in stream chat. Besides spamming / links / disrespect we pretty much never issue time-outs let alone bans. If one of the other moderators in the chat was abusing the ban or time out functions please PM me and let me know what was going on.
I time-out players for making any comments along the lines of "so and so is bad" or "is X bronze league?", but any legitimate criticisms and pointing out mistakes and flaws about the players or casters are never removed by myself or any of the other Playhem staff.
I'm just going to post here again and again: I often have the luxury of being able to listen to Playhem tourneys while I'm working, which makes for a fun-filled day. I really appreciate the hard work that goes into these games/casts. /short-post
"Robin" Tim Frazier needs more air time. The guy is passionate about the game, takes constructive criticism to heart and is an active member of the community.
im getting a very annoying flicker at 1080p, it seems like the screen is trying to refresh as the observer is repeatedly selecting hotkeys quickly and it's extremely annoying. at 720 it is much less noticeable.
i would have stopped watching had destiny not been doing so well!
I think you two have been doing just fine. I thought your caster spell-off has been pretty seamless, and I appreciate you two keeping yours eyes on different parts of the game so we get info that we may not see on the main screen. I also appreciate the casual conversation, even in the middle of the game. The tournament feels accessible, as a result, and super friendly. It keeps me coming back, boys.
Hey Playhem, Been listening today and yesterday during the One Thousand Dollar Open. These are my firsts impressions of the show and the casters. So far I've only listened to MrNerdSwagger, Lyrlian and Robin.
Hell, I've been looking for streams like this! I like the idea of daily tournaments that are free to participate in - I'm a EU platinum player myself and I would give a playhem cup a go if it was arranged on EU. As for the stream I think that you casters have good knowledge of the game and I appreciate your in depth-analysis. You focus a lot on strategy and different builds, which is interesting. I also like how you mix personal stories and experiences from laddering. It's gives the cast a personal touch to it. You (especially Lyrlian) have a very casual tone, which is great for the level your casting on. Other casters tend to over-dramatize and scream for everything (or just being loud and speaking fast in general), which can be a pain if you use speakers since the volume tends to go up. You also have decent voices for shoutcasting so keep up the good work! Also awesome that you interract with us viewers, either asking us questions or let us ask the casters questions. Really cool to hear someone outside the US casting games as well. We need a lot more people from EU doing it.
However, sometimes you guys seem to goof around a little too much, forgetting to keep it on a sort of professional level, making it sound like a dialogue between two friends rather than a show/game. It also sounds like you at times are searching for words due to the way you speak, sort of mechanical. Try to relax instead of adding this "I'm a caster in my casting voice mode"-thing. =)
Might be too early for me to give feedback, and my vocabulary is not the best, but I'll try to follow the stream as often as possible from now on. Keep it up. I'm enjoying it a bunch =)
Post#3 (or something) of mine: I'm going to have to say - There are a few streams going on throughout the day, which I follow, and I just keep coming back to Playhem's. I blame Robin- one of the hardest-working, and lolz-inducing casters of all time. Hey hey now - everyone else does a great job as well, but his commentary makes my cheeks hurt <--the ones on my face, people - from smiling/laughing so hard.
Everyone, besides the 'lay people' in chat O.o, keeps the cast pretty clean-humored and on the more professional side, keeps up the intensity of the intense games, and makes even the 'boring' games more exciting.
----
On another note:
The no-name "$1000 Tournament" was great fun as well, and I'm delighted that it happened. I knew a few people competing in it, and I believe they will again - if it happens again - which it should - (and it should never have a name :D )
Watching the 11/28/11 Daily and want to say that the casters Kibbelz and Katu were great, good chemistry, knowledge, and have a very friendly tone which gives you a comfortable feeling. The only thing I think they should work on his when they hype things up, they will hype up very little common things, it isn't bad thing just something they could work on The production value was great and its really cool to have this daily tournament for the "newcomers" to play in and practice their nerve issues and give them a chance to play against pros, I will definitely be watching more often, please keep this up
PS I would love to see these two apply for the MLG community casters program if possible, they could plug playhem while they are there also, these two are way better then most casters in some really big tournaments.
These Playhem tournaments are awesome! They're very well casted and covered, and it's great to watch some lesser known players fight their way through the tournament; especially with the influx of talent we saw at the last one. I watched a lot of the $1000 tournament, following along in Playhem chat channel and on stream, and haven't regret at all tuning in to watch some more today. Keep up the awesome work dudes.
Shout out to Robin, really loved your beta stream casts at MLG. Good luck with your GSL app!
On November 29 2011 07:17 nightshade85 wrote: Hey Playhem, Been listening today and yesterday during the One Thousand Dollar Open. These are my firsts impressions of the show and the casters. So far I've only listened to MrNerdSwagger, Lyrlian and Robin.
Hell, I've been looking for streams like this! I like the idea of daily tournaments that are free to participate in - I'm a EU platinum player myself and I would give a playhem cup a go if it was arranged on EU. As for the stream I think that you casters have good knowledge of the game and I appreciate your in depth-analysis. You focus a lot on strategy and different builds, which is interesting. I also like how you mix personal stories and experiences from laddering. It's gives the cast a personal touch to it. You (especially Lyrlian) have a very casual tone, which is great for the level your casting on. Other casters tend to over-dramatize and scream for everything (or just being loud and speaking fast in general), which can be a pain if you use speakers since the volume tends to go up. You also have decent voices for shoutcasting so keep up the good work! Also awesome that you interract with us viewers, either asking us questions or let us ask the casters questions. Really cool to hear someone outside the US casting games as well. We need a lot more people from EU doing it.
However, sometimes you guys seem to goof around a little too much, forgetting to keep it on a sort of professional level, making it sound like a dialogue between two friends rather than a show/game. It also sounds like you at times are searching for words due to the way you speak, sort of mechanical. Try to relax instead of adding this "I'm a caster in my casting voice mode"-thing. =)
Might be too early for me to give feedback, and my vocabulary is not the best, but I'll try to follow the stream as often as possible from now on. Keep it up. I'm enjoying it a bunch =)
You are Sooo right! Sometimes I am looking for words to express myself since I am not a native english speaking person. But I am definitely working on that, it used to be alot worse haha. The reason why I do this, is because I don't want to be saying, "he is now doing this and that", all the time. Instead I would say "He is now making/attempting/thinking this & that" , this obviously isn't the best example but should give you an idea of how these situations occur. I am a little afraid to be using the same words very often.
On the not-so-serious part, I think that is very much OK to do, especially if you're casting without breaks for 7 hours straight. Have you ever checked out Tastosis in the GSL? They talk about movies and games a ton, because it can get a little boring pointing out the same things in the early-game over and over again when casting for a long period straight.
Other than that, this is easily the best contructive feedback I have had in a long time :D
Now that i have the correct thread (cause robin is a doody-head.) I have no complaints really. Playhem provides a good daily influx of games, without having to resort to player-streams or watching games on youtube (I don't even play sc2 yet i watch playhem. Srsly.) But yeah, i geniunely have nothing critical to say about it.
p.s more robin though. p.p.s less robin, he's a doody-head who raped me in an e-hug.
Playhem is absolutely crazy they have very good casters and have a great community. I respect and think that Playhem is very underrated and i post this to publicly support them ! They give alot of prize money away and in total they are giving more the MLG a year. It is free to join plus there are daily tournaments everyday ! Playhem daily fan
I just wanna say: I LOVE PLAYHEM TV! Its good stuff. I watch everyday its on. Awesome casters, quality game play and just all around amazing league. Again, if you wanna know what I think of playhem....well I LOVE IT!
Watching playhem.tv right now, gotta say, it's a real treat to have such a great tournament to watch ALMOST EVERY DAY with such high-level play and well known pros. These casters are the bomb, I once watched all day on a Sunday, and Katu gave shoutouts to everyone in the chat (hundreds of people). Needless to say the shoutouts took like 20 minutes lol. They are dedicated to the game, providing great entertainment for the SC2 nerds, and very grateful for our support. Please support these casters like Katu, NerdSwagger, Frodan and Robin, Playhem website, and SC2 e-sports!
Playhem is good. I do have a few issues though, Robin promised me a PC when he gets famous. Now there's all these super posts on playhem feedback and such... do you think he's famous enough now to buy me that PC?
I have to say, at first i was skeptical about watching playhem.tv since i didn't know what the tournament was about, but since it does have many korean players compete against each other in the tournament i'm accustomed to watch playhem more and more. I appreciate the fun casting on playhem but i would hope that they update the tournament bracket more often since i'd like to see who is playing against who =).
I just moved house and have had no internet for 5 weeks TT sad face :'( but i have gone back to my old place for a week and loving it again. I have discovered PlayhemTV even though im from england and yesterday instead of sleeping i watched the epic tourney! and today had to do 8 hours of christmas shopping and still havent slept... to watch it again!
Its great loads of fun and im learning alot from it!
Personally I love the daily schedule, I know that at around 11pm est I can tune in and catch some high quality games and pretty decent casting. Keep it up, it really is a really good stream ^.-
I just moved house and have had no internet for 5 weeks TT sad face :'( but i have gone back to my old place for a week and loving it again. I have discovered PlayhemTV even though im from england and yesterday instead of sleeping i watched the epic tourney! and today had to do 8 hours of christmas shopping and still havent slept... to watch it again!
Its great loads of fun and im learning alot from it!
On November 30 2011 13:23 Geo424 wrote: Playhem is good. I do have a few issues though, Robin promised me a PC when he gets famous. Now there's all these super posts on playhem feedback and such... do you think he's famous enough now to buy me that PC?
Anyway Playhem doth rocketh.
I told you I would give you my old PC. I am nowhere near close to being famous though. Playhem is famous and I am riding those coat tails son. =)
The level of professionalism for the casters today has been unprecedented relative to what I'm used to seeing on playhem dailies. It's darn near impossible to watch one of these without the casters insulting or critiquing the viewers or chat. Regardless of how rude or immature the chat may be, it really adds a lot of credibility to the show when the casters can stay focused on entertaining. One thing that also did not occur this time is casters going off on an irrelevant tangent for 5 minutes DURING the game. Thank you for that as well. So kudos to bonk and katu, you guys are doing a great job in entertaining both during and between games. Hopefully you guys are elected to do these more often.
Don't really have interest in playing 4v4, but felt you guys deserved a compliment.
Note: I've watched maybe 10 to 15 playhem events and am not saying every caster here is doing these things, just the impression I've been left with from those times.
I watch the playhem daily almost everyday and I have to say, Katu you are a natural commentator. Very enjoyable to listen to, full of knowledge, and I look forward to listening to your commentating every night. Keep up the good work.
Epic show tonight guys. Good teamup from Kibbelz and Robin, even though Robin had technical difficulties, I think this tournament is rapidly gaining street cred what with EG sans Idra showing up and getting knocked out really early.
Okay - so here's some more of my feedback - I heard some music tonight on the stream, I LOVE it when there's music (because I love music) - but I know that it's tough because of copyright issues, so - I'm going to ask for some feedback from you guys: What kind of music do you like? (I will see what permissions I can get from various artists) <-They'll usually be on the smaller scale - no big names plz.
I've gotten permission from Venus Hum already for ALL twitch.tv streamers to use their works, but that's just music I personally like - (they are kind of techno-pop ish) and I know not everyone has the same taste SO - If someone(s) comes up with a few suggestions /genres - I will see who all I can contact for permission.
My only complaint is that Frodan is missing. When he is gone my heart sinks and I cannot live. Hopefully he can come back and be the amazing leader that he is.
Wow wow wow, you guys need to advertise somehow when you have such a high profile finals! Almost missed it if I didn't check the playhem site. Gj guys. Thorazin vs HasuObs, this could have been a NASL finals.
I know some of these tournaments can get very long and tiresome to cast, but, making finals BO5 would be pretty nice.
On December 09 2011 06:42 MrCash wrote: Wow wow wow, you guys need to advertise somehow when you have such a high profile finals! Almost missed it if I didn't check the playhem site. Gj guys. Thorazin vs HasuObs, this could have been a NASL finals.
I know some of these tournaments can get very long and tiresome to cast, but, making finals BO5 would be pretty nice.
We actually used to have BO5 finals, but players weren't too positive about that. I agree BO5 could be more fun, maybe something to consider when we up the prizepool (if we ever do).
The casters are amazing. They make watching these dailies even better, because of how they make each game fun to watch with their knowledge and commentary, along with the occasional funny / smart remarks either about what is happening during the game or about something on chat. Besides the commentators, the players and the level of skill during each of these dailies is awesome. From watching these dailies I have actually learn ways to improve my game play during ladder matches as Protoss. Over the commentators and players in all of the NA dailies are awesome, and I absolutely enjoy watching them every night.
I love you guys so much! Watching the stream everytime it's up! You should really consider getting the color mod for SC2, it'll make the stream so pretty.
Color Mod - Yay or Nay? Information about the mod:+ Show Spoiler +
The color mod makes player colors more noticeable so it's easier to tell units apart in close battles such as ling/bane zvz, here is a link to the thread and a sample screenshot comparison: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216725 Before After
I love the community that Playhem has gathered. It represent the common players of Starcraft as well as the Pros that play. I love the casters, with being quite bias to Kibbelz since he introduced me to it through his stream. Improvements for the SC Stream would be, I would love to more collaborative efforts with the pro teams. It feels as though the pro players participating are doing it out of randomness. Maybe impossible, but it would be cool if they could do some events like IPL fight club or some invitationals. I love the voting poll that was added, genius and awesome.
As far as improvements for Playhem, I think the other games that Playhem offers should find a time to be streamed. The community for Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom is very big and can draw attention to Playhem further. I wouldnt mind casting/hosting this tournaments. I've done research on this and can back up how effective this would be. Hope this get's taking into great consideration.
kashbryant@gmail.com to talk things over. Let's make something amazing happen and keep up the great work!!
On December 13 2011 12:59 KashBryant wrote: I love the community that Playhem has gathered. It represent the common players of Starcraft as well as the Pros that play. I love the casters, with being quite bias to Kibbelz since he introduced me to it through his stream.
I really appreciate reading detailed comments like this one, and feel the same way about this community. Huge hearts to EVERYONE who participates, whether you are a player, organizer, caster, silent lurker, or person typing in the chat (keep that chat-interaction going guys, because (and I know I've said it before) it's wonderful for the audience to play a part).
Improvements for the SC Stream would be, I would love to more collaborative efforts with the pro teams. It feels as though the pro players participating are doing it out of randomness. Maybe impossible, but it would be cool if they could do some events like IPL fight club or some invitationals. I love the voting poll that was added, genius and awesome.
As far as improvements for Playhem, I think the other games that Playhem offers should find a time to be streamed. The community for Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom is very big and can draw attention to Playhem further. I wouldnt mind casting/hosting this tournaments. I've done research on this and can back up how effective this would be. Hope this get's taking into great consideration...
I will say that a big aspect which I LOVE about this particular community IS the more 'cozy' atmosphere of the daily tournaments, which demonstrate that even the pro players are people who wish to compete/practice at will. I'm absolutely not bashing the idea of collaborating with the teams on occasion to offer special events if at all possible, because obviously that would be a HUGE step for growth and exposure. I also agree that it would be awesome to see some of the other tournaments casted live if at all possible (maybe construct an additional channel for such events, if it's not in the works already :D)
You ALL are doing a wonderful job!
_________________________________________
Okay, I'm going to add two more cents to this same post:
Something that's becoming a more regularly occurring fan-favorite: The Afterparty.
As we know, all great events have a great afterparty, and Playhem Dailies are no exception. Whether the team games (recently dubbed "the afterparty") occur on the Playhem stream, or that of an individual host, fans LOVE it.
So here's just a quick idea to maybe keep people on stream, telling friends, and coming back: Make the afterparty a prize in itself (when a host is able to do it, of course): Trivia between games?? --at least n. viewers answer correctly before the next match, the chance of the afterparty increases?? <- just a thought - trivia is always a fun way to interact with chat, and who doesn't want to learn new stuff (or be right)?
As always, Thanks! And thanks for playing a bit more music as well :D ... Now, have some hovering party candy:
On December 09 2011 06:42 MrCash wrote: Wow wow wow, you guys need to advertise somehow when you have such a high profile finals! Almost missed it if I didn't check the playhem site. Gj guys. Thorazin vs HasuObs, this could have been a NASL finals.
I know some of these tournaments can get very long and tiresome to cast, but, making finals BO5 would be pretty nice.
We try to! Usually post on reddit and things like that. Casters tweet too .
For the Bo5 things, it's a problem to have that. These guys have had to play like 5-8 different MU's. Everything from the quarters-and on is bo3. So by the finals you have 2 bo3's and at least 3-4 bo1's they go through. That's a potential of 10 games before the finals. We already run till midnight some days(on the NA daily). The players prefer shorter games and they're not worth alot (75$).
If you haven't noticed, in our high prizepool tournaments we have bo5/bo7(Im not sure about bo7, but bo5 for sure.) This is due to the big prize pool and it's worth it to the players/us for them to get a more even series.
I was wondering if u guys could or intended to help promoting new maps, like amm, having the first map of every Bo3 to be one of the maps NASL used in their semi-open, or one of the maps TL is promoting too
On December 18 2011 14:25 sashamunguia wrote: nice work done as always
I was wondering if u guys could or intended to help promoting new maps, like amm, having the first map of every Bo3 to be one of the maps NASL used in their semi-open, or one of the maps TL is promoting too
We've already got some new community maps lined up for our pool soon, I think you'll enjoy them
Firstly, Robin and Kibbelz have silly face, and also Steisjo - what a major silly face I know he can't help it, he was born that way but it is very silly.
Secondly, Playhem is f00000000shing amazing. I tune in as much as I can when I get home from work, and it keeps me entertained - the Playhem community is also pretty fantastic (chat / tournaments / etc.)
The casters need to stop showing us the sharks on lost temple, or the random overlord placements while the fights are happening - god damn you guys.
Also, STOP GOD DAMN COMPLAINING ABOUT BLUE VS TEAL. Click the RvB hand shake icon thing! (DEFAULT IS ALT+F NEEB - I promise!) Jeez!
On December 18 2011 14:25 sashamunguia wrote: nice work done as always
I was wondering if u guys could or intended to help promoting new maps, like amm, having the first map of every Bo3 to be one of the maps NASL used in their semi-open, or one of the maps TL is promoting too
We've already got some new community maps lined up for our pool soon, I think you'll enjoy them
On December 23 2011 10:21 Cylluus wrote: Robin and Adebisi FIGHTING!
...
Wow. Just wow - These 2 casting- brings back memories of MLG faster than the smell of Dr. Pepper® - Seriously, outstanding, guys - Out-freaking-standing. :D
On December 18 2011 14:25 sashamunguia wrote: nice work done as always
I was wondering if u guys could or intended to help promoting new maps, like amm, having the first map of every Bo3 to be one of the maps NASL used in their semi-open, or one of the maps TL is promoting too
We've already got some new community maps lined up for our pool soon, I think you'll enjoy them
Besides some minor mistakes, like messing up the overlay or similar stuff, they do a very solid job. It is always very entertaining and I'm already looking forward to the next daily. They are close to the community and the fungames after the daily sometimes are great as well. Guys, your f***ing awesome !!
Just want to say that I really like your stream. However I would advise to not bash other games without knowing the game. A caster, Katu, Insulted league of legends saying, and I quote " League of Legends has horrible graphics and does not have a spectator mode", then admitted that it did have a spectator mode and then said he didn't care. Though his casting was excellent, please don't insult other games. It is not, in my view, professional. E-sports is more than Starcraft, it emcompasses alot of games, including LoL. I appreciate your dedication to Starcraft , just a warning, do not bash other games, because some fans might be insulted.
I just want to say that Robin is the most BADASS caster there is :D He just so good at his job. All of the other casters are great but Robin Sticks out The most to me in my opinion. :D
Really great stream. Sure there are a few mistakes here and there, but overall, it's very impressive and quite professional. They're on top of their game and they take it very seriously, but at the same time make it really fun.
I can tell Playhem takes care and picking and choosing their casters, and it sure does make a difference. Robin is a really good up-and-coming caster and is really good at interacting with the audiences.
In terms of my favorite caster though, i feel Katu is very knowledgeable about the game. When he's solo casting, he has a nice balance of talking about the game, but also lightening up the cast with occasional talks outside the game, which I feel is important for an engaging cast. Thanks a lot Katu, if there is anyone that keeps me tuned in the most it's you .
But really, Playhem is doing a great thing and all the caster's deserve some respect. Thanks a lot! <3
On December 27 2011 12:56 StinkyBoots wrote: Just want to say that I really like your stream. However I would advise to not bash other games without knowing the game. A caster, Katu, Insulted league of legends saying, and I quote " League of Legends has horrible graphics and does not have a spectator mode", then admitted that it did have a spectator mode and then said he didn't care. Though his casting was excellent, please don't insult other games. It is not, in my view, professional. E-sports is more than Starcraft, it emcompasses alot of games, including LoL. I appreciate your dedication to Starcraft , just a warning, do not bash other games, because some fans might be insulted.
To be fair, he also hated on runescape. You should provide some context though, he said it's not a game he likes and never said it was bad, he was talking about game designers in general should work on tailoring a game for spectating / casting and he admitted that LoL had a spectator mode once he was told he was wrong. Thanks for the feedback though, I'm sure he wasn't trying to insult anyone directly even if he does think the game sucks.
Hey guys, love Playhem! One comment I do have is that I would like to hear in-game music alongside the casting, kind of like how they do in GSL (also have the music fade / interruption turned off). I don't know how other people feel, but that is my personal opinion.
To be fair, he also hated on runescape. You should provide some context though, he said it's not a game he likes and never said it was bad, he was talking about game designers in general should work on tailoring a game for spectating / casting and he admitted that LoL had a spectator mode once he was told he was wrong. Thanks for the feedback though, I'm sure he wasn't trying to insult anyone directly even if he does think the game sucks.
Yeah context was lacking, my bad. I just felt attacked as a LoL fan and a SC 2 fan. I just felt like I wasn't allowed to be a LoL fan because he didn't like it. It's all good though. No harm done. Still love Katu, Still love Playhem.!!!!
Really nice streaming, its always entertaining and they always know what they are talking about. But the stream is always better when lyrlian has a co-streamer like nerdswagger he talks more and in such a way makes it all a better experience.
On December 28 2011 07:52 StabShot wrote: Really nice streaming, its always entertaining and they always know what they are talking about. But the stream is always better when lyrlian has a co-streamer like nerdswagger he talks more and in such a way makes it all a better experience.
Will be watching you guys more!
Jeah, I don't like solo-casting ): But sometimes it's a decision between solo-casting or not casting at all. Glad you enjoyed it :D
On December 28 2011 07:52 StabShot wrote: Really nice streaming, its always entertaining and they always know what they are talking about. But the stream is always better when lyrlian has a co-streamer like nerdswagger he talks more and in such a way makes it all a better experience.
Will be watching you guys more!
Jeah, I don't like solo-casting ): But sometimes it's a decision between solo-casting or not casting at all. Glad you enjoyed it :D
I remember when Lyrlian only wanted to solo-cast. Now he loves us. We are like a fungus, we grow on you Lyrlian
I really like Jorosar so far as a caster, he's doing a pretty good job thus far. As always Lyrlian is also doing a very good job, they did very well handling the 50 min delay.
Definitely want to hear more of JoRoSar. His insight is super beneficial and his explanations of reasons for player's actions, especially zerg knowledge, add so much to the casting of the Tournament. Please bring him on more often.
You are doing an awesome job! Just wanted to say that don't forget that not everyone gets a commercial So don't say stuff like 'commercial is still running so we can relax' .. keep going for the few that didn't get a commercial .. Apart from that, keep doing what you are doing .. it works and it's nice to hear :D
Hey, just finished watching the EU Playhem stream - you guys are really great, good synergy, commentary and excitement. I hope you guys will get to commentate in more stuff
Lyrlian are you from the Netherlands? Damn ... respect ^^ i don't hear your dutch accent at all =) (some casters from the netherlands have that typical dutch accent and it's a bit annoying sometimes) but damn how did you do it :D
On December 29 2011 06:51 Juice! wrote: Lyrlian are you from the Netherlands? Damn ... respect ^^ i don't hear your dutch accent at all =) (some casters from the netherlands have that typical dutch accent and it's a bit annoying sometimes) but damn how did you do it :D
Thanks man, YEARS OF NERDING Playing runescape since I was 12.
Lyrlian has now casted the EU Daily, then jumped in to cast the NA daily. It is now 4.34 AM in The Netherlands, so give this guy some love! Lyrlian ftw!
Love the stream. Only thing I can think to make it better is to get a app. I have a twitch.tv app on my iPhone but it doesn't allow for voting. With your own app you can have a vote page with live casting too. Have a schedule for the dailies and casters in there also.
Lyrlian was amazing today having to cast both the EU and NA Playhem dailies today, he was so great for doing both. A lot of dedication for doing that for the us viewers.
Lyrlian, i love your casting, its really good, but one thing that I noticed during the EU tournament today was that you called out "ggs" really early, it really breaks the magic, That is all!
Hey guys, first time I've heard your playhem cast, really enjoying your style. I love how quick the games come and the vibe of just sitting around talking about starcraft matches.
Hi, I would really like to hear in-game music during the casts, kind of like how they do it for the GSL. Also, Psylence is super-awesome and super-fun to listen to. But please, I would like to hear in-game music! I feel like this would add to production value!
Hello ladies and gentlemen. Today is Thursday, December 29th, 2011, and OMG Psylence and Robin. This just keeps getting better and better. Holy beejebuz my sides are hurting from the comedic awesomeness of this cast - have you seen Tastosis? Have you seen K9? Robin+Psylence=Epic Casting (No offense Alaska, cause you impressed me too, but you aren't here - and yes, everyone else, I <3 you too - but they were/are super impressive this evening)
Psylence- You've GOT to stay with Playhem!! Robin- You're the soul of Playhem<- don't be modest, you are SO loved by this audience. Take this tournament to the next level!!!
Together, I'm thinkin' you guys are the star-casters of Playhem. My. Goodness. I could easily see you guys as a duo up on the MLG / NASL / Dreamhack / IPL / (Playhem, when it becomes a main event) etc... MAINSTAGE.
I'm pretty blown away - can you tell? Even the Robin-vs-Starboard eff'ups add character to the cast.
I really love all of the variety all of the different casters bring to it. You guys are also very good at knowing whats going on in the game so you can help viewers understand whats happening in the matches.
On December 30 2011 13:53 BrightSideSC2 wrote: Regardless of the time TL says,
Hello ladies and gentlemen. Today is Thursday, December 29th, 2011, and OMG Psylence and Robin. This just keeps getting better and better. Holy beejebuz my sides are hurting from the comedic awesomeness of this cast - have you seen Tastosis? Have you seen K9? Robin+Psylence=Epic Casting (No offense Alaska, cause you impressed me too, but you aren't here - and yes, everyone else, I <3 you too - but they were/are super impressive this evening)
Psylence- You've GOT to stay with Playhem!! Robin- You're the soul of Playhem<- don't be modest, you are SO loved by this audience. Take this tournament to the next level!!!
Together, I'm thinkin' you guys are the star-casters of Playhem. My. Goodness. I could easily see you guys as a duo up on the MLG / NASL / Dreamhack / IPL / (Playhem, when it becomes a main event) etc... MAINSTAGE.
I'm pretty blown away - can you tell? Even the Robin-vs-Starboard eff'ups add character to the cast.
I agree on the part that Robin is the soul of Playhem. Although I'm just beginning to think that Brandi is just willing to pair any new person with Robin and call it ridiculous chemistry just because he's that amazing. Robin #1!
I'm really in love with the new score overlay guys. I expect any improvements to it in the future will be as good or even better. I really have to say how much I love playhem for doing these daily tournaments, it's always something to look forward to.
tonight's broadcast was awesome, it was kinda lagging but my internet was also kinda bad. But overall it was a great broadcast like always and it was really entertaining, and I enjoyed it a lot. Keep doing great!
Started watching this recently and I've gotta say it's already one of my favourite streams. I'll tune in every day confident in the fact that I'm going to be entertained. Keep up the great work, guys!
Lyrlian. I fing love you man. Number one EU caster. Any other casters can suck it and take it up with me. I <3 you and the hole you fill in my body can never be replaced. Even with Scarlett Johanson
Lyrlian, for being Dutch your accent is barely audible and your manner of speaking very pleasant to listen to. Even though you're obviously a bit tired at the moment I and about 1,3k other viewers are still very much enjoying your casting! Keep it up!
On January 04 2012 08:21 AgMaxHammer wrote: The mods ban people for making jokes, it's sort of stupid. I wouldn't recommend this product to a friend.
Mean old Maxhammer. To give context, tons of porn links were being posted in the chat and I mentioned anymore links would be auto timeout. I heart you maxhammer, you troll, you!
On January 04 2012 08:21 AgMaxHammer wrote: The mods ban people for making jokes, it's sort of stupid. I wouldn't recommend this product to a friend.
Mean old Maxhammer. To give context, tons of porn links were being posted in the chat and I mentioned anymore links would be auto timeout. I heart you maxhammer, you troll, you!
On January 04 2012 08:21 AgMaxHammer wrote: The mods ban people for making jokes, it's sort of stupid. I wouldn't recommend this product to a friend.
Mean old Maxhammer. To give context, tons of porn links were being posted in the chat and I mentioned anymore links would be auto timeout. I heart you maxhammer, you troll, you!
Since the rest of the heroes and Beatles characters are posting, I figured I may as well also.
But, In all seroiusness, I really enjoy tuning in to the playhem channel for the daily tournaments. All the casters are very good. It is nice to have live casted games going on all the time. I hope you guys get all the recognition you deserve because I think that this could really turn into something big.
Hey, just wanted to leave some feedback here... loving lyrlians casting, watching mostly cause of him (best together with MrNS i think).
Watching nearly every big tournament and every GSL and you are a new favourite besides Wolf and Tastosis for me . I guess if there is something to be a bit critical of, its that you dont notice some race specific things(noticed it for some Z things) the players are doing, but thats cause you play toss, i think that will come with time and does, but thats not something huge, just noticed it sometimes.
You are very good to listen to... no annoying voice, good solo casting.
Feedback for Robin, although i think you have heard it before, you are talking way to fast :D, slow down a bit, then it is easier to follow (watched you on MLG beta streams and noticed it there also).
Feedback for Robin, although i think you have heard it before, you are talking way to fast :D, slow down a bit, then it is easier to follow (watched you on MLG beta streams and noticed it there also).
Thanks and keep the work up
Thanks for the feedback. I have been working hard on it, but sometimes I need to be put back in place. Fast talking is encouraged at my job, so it comes naturally and takes a lot of energy for me to hold it back. I'll keep working on it. Again Thanks, Robin
On January 04 2012 06:58 TheWaldo wrote: Lyrlian, for being Dutch your accent is barely audible and your manner of speaking very pleasant to listen to. Even though you're obviously a bit tired at the moment I and about 1,3k other viewers are still very much enjoying your casting! Keep it up!
Maybe it is because I am Dutch myself, but right when I heard the first word ever from him, I knew he was Dutch. But I must say he speaks very clearly and he is a great caster!
On January 04 2012 06:58 TheWaldo wrote: Lyrlian, for being Dutch your accent is barely audible and your manner of speaking very pleasant to listen to. Even though you're obviously a bit tired at the moment I and about 1,3k other viewers are still very much enjoying your casting! Keep it up!
Maybe it is because I am Dutch myself, but right when I heard the first word ever from him, I knew he was Dutch. But I must say he speaks very clearly and he is a great caster!
It's comments like these that cheer me up when I'm down. And comments like these which motivate me to keep casting when tired :D thanks
Katu and Psylence, you guys are hilarious tonight. I love playhem because often I am entertained in ways beyond just the action of the game (ie your comedy)....only other casters besides playhem casters that make me laugh like you guys are tastosis and day9 :D
Keep Up all the good Work guys... Comed is funny and nice early game and there should be a ton of it, but make sure that late game most time should be focused on game actual casting not redic comments... we are trying to see a different perspective on games than the ones that we see... overall still i love Playhem and I watch every day
More than anything else, I love how all the playhem casters enjoy themselves day after day. makes it so much more enjoyable for the fans. As a noob I love seeing the analysis with the timings too...as if i could somehow attempt to replicate the builds/timings Always a fan of the fan games too.
Great cast guys and awesome matches (Rainbow rulz). Like xRoyyaL said before, it will be great if you provide some stats of the players, like their record against each race.
Shoutout to Playhem, you guys are awesome. Love that you actually interact with the fans by both talking to them at points during the daily and fan games afterwards. Keep it up, wish I had started watching earlier.
On January 16 2012 12:16 StarStrider wrote: I vote YES on proposition Give Luka His Own Talkshow on Playhem Dammit.
I doubt it'll ever happen. If it were I've been notified all things will crash and burn and I like working with everyone and Playhem in general. But who knows.
On January 13 2012 13:05 Khan47 wrote: Great cast guys and awesome matches (Rainbow rulz). Like xRoyyaL said before, it will be great if you provide some stats of the players, like their record against each race.
Keep up the good work !
Interesting, do you mean like stats within playhem or generally? Two big problems, one is getting the information delivered. Which is impossible since we can't account for matchups. Other one being getting the statistics. But you never know, playhem is always innovating and trying to better themselves!
On January 14 2012 12:12 Kreamer wrote: ps.. DAMMIT LUKA
I bear all the burders.
On January 16 2012 12:05 StarStrider wrote: Psylence makes all the caster combos hilarious.
He does have quite the unique and spicy personality doesn't he? I personally enjoy his SFX and accents/impressions. Playhem is half about the games and half about stand up comedy sometimes.
Hi! First of all I'd like to say that I love playhem and what you're doing is great! And second – I have a suggestion for you guys:
There should be an option to donate the prize money to organizations like Doctors without borders, green peace etc.
Especially the price sums which you may win in the lower tournaments (i.e. daily gold/plat) which is just a few dollars I'm pretty sure people would love to donate, I know i would, as most people only play these tournaments for fun and practice. And there's also alot of people who can't play for money due to various reasons.
So my suggestion is basicaly a button which says something like "DONATE PRIZE (5$) TO ___, and then you get your name on a daily/weekly list on the homepage of donors or something.
I reckon it would be great PR for Playhem and for Esports in general (and perhaps even to some players who may chose that option in the daily 75$), and who knows – it may attract new sponsons.
On January 19 2012 15:24 Scratchy! wrote: Hi! First of all I'd like to say that I love playhem and what you're doing is great! And second – I have a suggestion for you guys:
There should be an option to donate the prize money to organizations like Doctors without borders, green peace etc.
Especially the price sums which you may win in the lower tournaments (i.e. daily gold/plat) which is just a few dollars I'm pretty sure people would love to donate, I know i would, as most people only play these tournaments for fun and practice. And there's also alot of people who can't play for money due to various reasons.
So my suggestion is basicaly a button which says something like "DONATE PRIZE (5$) TO ___, and then you get your name on a daily/weekly list on the homepage of donors or something.
I reckon it would be great PR for Playhem and for Esports in general (and perhaps even to some players who may chose that option in the daily 75$), and who knows – it may attract new sponsons.
That's all. =)
We've actually done this for some users in the past, sometimes players don't want their prize or don't have a paypal account and ask us to forward their winnings to a charity instead. We'll honor those requests for any charity that can take donations by paypal
I like the addition of Trump, hopefully he'll be a permanent addition to your already very interesting casting crew. Good job Playhem, you are my nightly SC2 action.
I like how you guys had Trump on today, after watching his stream you will learn he is very well informed and a good addition the casters already on the team. Good work guys and keep up the good work!
I missed Luka. There were like no active mods in the chat today. When I got no feedback from pointing out the overlay mistakes, I felt like my voice was not being heard! Eventually the overlay was fixed, but casters did not address the issue and no mods responded in the chat. But this is the first time that this has ever happened, so you are forgiven Luka.
And also, the problem of overlays getting messed up - as someone else pointed out, this is happening all too often, and defeats the purpose of having a custom overlay if it's always incorrect (and might as well just use in-game overlay)
However, I understand that custom overlays allow for players with smurf accounts or foreign accounts to be identifiable. Another problem is that since the casters do not see the overlay, sometimes they are referring to player names in-game that differ from what the viewers see in the overlay, and this is confusing. I do like the custom overlays, and the fact that well-known players can be easily recognized while using a "smurf" account. But please inform the casters, or push the casters to call the players by their known names if that is what is being displayed to the viewers.
I hope these problems will be addressed. Also, it is deeply appreciated when casters publicly announce things they are trying to fix so that we know our feedback matters. Otherwise, keep up the good work! I will continue to watch PlayhemTV every night! (Oh also, this was all in reference to the NA Playhem Daily. I did not watch the EU Daily so no beef with them)
Generally the overlay is only fucked is something big is going on that requires my or ben's immediate attention. This being smurfs, site crashes, or anything under the sun that could go wrong. Adding in to this is stream lag so when I notice the problem to fixing it there is a big delay sometimes so even though to you it might be only seconds usually for me from the point where I see the overlay needs fixing to it being fixed can be anywhere between 20-30 seconds on 240p. USually im behind 10-15 seconds behind everyone.
But I will make a bigger attempt to make sure im flawless.
Keep in mind Ben was alone last night . On an average NA night admins that are dealing with the general day-to-day problems receive anywhere between 100-300 PM's. The stream must be run too. So things sometimes are a little hectic. He had to run the ingame stuff and the stream stuff so cut him some slack .
Oh, and thanks for the feedback ^^. We like hearing these sorts of things . We will improve!
Oh and about the casters. Sometimes it's really hard keeping up with the matchups and names. I usually tell them who is matched up but that's up to them to see. Sometimes they go for a drink/piss and they miss it so yeah =(.
Drop them bows on those kittens! But I do highly enjoy this tourney, hoping to play in some of them soon, but it is always a good amount of SC2 to be had with some good casters! Keep it up guys and go eSports!
I love your voice Robin, personally, I think you are made for being a sc2 caster and is delighted whenever I hear your voice. Psylence you are probably one of the best analyzers and I am happy that you are one of the casters of Playhem TV. I can't ask anything more and I hope I could play with you guys more often!
In all the time I spend on Twitch.TV I always know there will be a Playhem daily, and the second I see it on that is my queue to drop all other stream and watch dat playhem. You may wonder why this is eh? Well the reasoning behind this truth is you guys are awesome casters, very analytical helping my play, and you keep it interesting. Keep up the good work and stay classy, oh and TIME TO KICK @SS AND CHEW BUBBLE GUM.
enjoyed your casting tonight (psylence & robin), it was fun, BUT you did keep me up all night long. so i am right now (edit) on my 24th hour of being awake!! and still at work
Some feedback(hard to come up with): Robin, do some starstrikers, u gotta get MVP with that zergling! i know its hard when iam an opponent but yeah man <3
and that you let some ppl on skype on fangames makes it extra special and fun, even tho you make fun of my accent :D
Well hello :D I've been slacking on my feedbacks, so here are several short ones:
•2 Showmatches happened, and were awesome. What happened to the 3rd week, and so on? If they happen again though, can we still begin at the normal time with the daily tourn 'till about 30 mins or so until the showmatch happens?
•JoRoSaR does quite well with Lyrlian as part of the Accent-Archon (I remember his first time was a little rocky because of technical difficulties with the brackets - no fault of his own, but then proved his casting in subsequent dailies)
•SchAmToo was amazing (for his 'trial') and totally fits Playhem's fun atmosphere :D
•Still loving the Robin/Psylence combo (lol, Frodan too), and wish Alaska was around more often, but I know he's busy with about a million things.
•I miss Nerdian (NerdSwagger + Lyrlian), but realize they've been busy as well with school.
•Love that the fangames afterparty has become a part of Playhem daily(ies).
•I think it's fun that Katu posted the drinking game.
•"Playhem" is a name that really fits the channel/tourn - fun, kind of casual, atmosphere with welcomed antics by fans and casters - the chat etc...
•Some casters interact with fans more than others (Alaska, Robin, Frodan, Katu, and Kibbelz are prob the 'best' with that type of multitasking - imho)
•I miss Neeb's presence, but Ben - doing a lovely job keeping everything together - That's dedication, so thank you for your dedication to the players and fans - I do hope you find help if you are in need! I like Playhembot's appearances as well.
•Also, I want to mention Steisjo. He's a such a dedicated part of this community - if there are no casters for the day, he casts games on his own stream, and he's told me "it's for the viewers- they deserve it" -- I hope the caster roster does get straightened out soon though, because it's no fun to see ppl in the chat who were expecting a stream... NOT get a stream.
•One last bit for now - the original post on this thread is in srs need of updating (more specifically, the showmatch section and contacts are out of date)
Okay - I did it :D Thanks, as always - <3 Playhem, and I tell ppl about it all the time.
On January 23 2012 14:43 BrightSideSC2 wrote: Well hello :D I've been slacking on my feedbacks, so here are several short ones:
•2 Showmatches happened, and were awesome. What happened to the 3rd week, and so on? If they happen again though, can we still begin at the normal time with the daily tourn 'till about 30 mins or so until the showmatch happens?
We had to skip a bit due to some unfortunate issues with our paypal account (now resolved, sorry for the inconvenience guys!) and losing Neeb, we're back on track now with some great matches planned.
•I miss Neeb's presence, but Ben - doing a lovely job keeping everything together - That's dedication, so thank you for your dedication to the players and fans - I do hope you find help if you are in need! I like Playhembot's appearances as well.
<3
•Also, I want to mention Steisjo. He's a such a dedicated part of this community - if there are no casters for the day, he casts games on his own stream, and he's told me "it's for the viewers- they deserve it" -- I hope the caster roster does get straightened out soon though, because it's no fun to see ppl in the chat who were expecting a stream... NOT get a stream.
Working on that (see: caster auditions :D)! Our goal will always be 100% attendance for every single tournament and stream day. I think we've had to cancel the tournament twice due to technical difficulties out of the last 5 months. Now it's time to get the stream in shape.
•One last bit for now - the original post on this thread is in srs need of updating (more specifically, the showmatch section and contacts are out of date)
Also on the big to do list, right after two of every animal.
I just want to thank Katonka tonk for giving me space shark's blessing, it help me win my first playhem tournament! But on a slightly more serious note, I really want to thank all of the casters for always interacting with the players day after day. They always seem so happy to be casting for us and it really improves the experience as a whole. A special thanks for Luka for taking all of the burders for everyone else! (damnit luka)
Omg JoroSar I have never heard you before and I think you are an excellent caster! Robin always with his smooth moves and slick analysis! I love you guys and I still remember SpacesHARK HEHE.
On January 25 2012 04:10 Finrod1 wrote: would be cool if it would be easier to find the brackets. or am i blind? dont find them on the site or the tl calendar or op. :/
If you sign up for an account (it's free) at playhem.com, ALL of the brackets are readily available under the 'tournaments' link at the top.
OR - you can always just ask in the chat and someone will link the current bracket.
This is the second time I've heard Jorosar cast, and he is much, much better than I remembered. His accent and sharp articulation kind of reminds me of Klazart from SC2GG. His speech has a good pace and very good flow. I don't know if he does only EU, but I'd like to hear him cast more for the NA playhem as well (if he doesn't already)!
Love Playhem, and love how you guys not only listen to but also request for feedback! Keep up the good work!
Usually I have nothing bad to say about Playhem and their casters, I come here only to leave rave reviews! But now there are a ton of new 'test run' casters and they haven't quite gotten comfortable yet. Understandable. But I just thought I'd throw out some constructive criticism to help out.
NEW CASTER CRITIQUES:
>> SchamToo is a great caster, a little inexperience, but interesting to listen to, and I think will fit right in with the Playhem family given time and practice.
>> I absolutely would not keep TrumpSC. Sorry, you can say it's just my opinion, but he is probably one of the most uninteresting casters I've ever heard, definitely the worst on Playhem, and I watch HOURS of SC2 casts every day. There is just too much wrong with his casting that I can't even begin to critique it other than to say he needs to go. (Trump, if you need specific points though just ask me and I will share to try to help). He casted with Kibbz the other night and I was just shaking my head and felt so bad for Kibbelz having to carry the whole evening in awkwardness.
>> The new guy Zaio is really good overall. My only criticism is he needs to stop saying "we" and "our" when referring to the players. Neither he nor I are 7 harvesters behind, the player is. So say that and not "we". It is so distracting.
>> And JOROSAR is amazing! He is one of the best new casters I've heard. When I watched his BO31 with QXC and CatZ, I loved him, but was afraid I wouldn't hear much more of him, but then he started casting Playhem and I was super stoked! Go Joro!
And much love to the amazing casters in Frodan, Kibbelz, Katu, Alaska, NerdSwagger, Lyrilian, and my new favorite The Psylence. And of course who can forget the amazing Robin_Wonders :D
On January 28 2012 14:08 ilolwhat wrote: Little to no competitive insight.
edit: they have no respect for community, they say they do but they are just bm
We just assumed you did not accept your pending request to join the game. Apologies. Like I told the other viewer, make sure you are on for NA Fan games on Sunday.
I will personally get you two into my game. But honestly, a lot of people want to play in the Playhem Fan games, there are only so many slots....
I was really excited to hear about the random prize of an hour of coaching from Zoia for voting in the assorted polls. It's really nice to see that people like him are so willing to give up EVEN MORE time to the fans, and it brings awareness to some of the neat features such as the poll in the overlay. While I may not have won that opportunity (sadface,) its just awesome that the opportunity even existed. Hope you guys do similar things in the future and thanks as always.
I love the idea of a fan appreciation day. I feel like it should include all types of fan games, ranging from star strikers to raynor party to photon cycles to even LOL (even though i don't play it derp). Though it would put a lot on the casters, I would love if caster coaching were somehow involved in the random prizes (like how 1 hr zoia coaching was a random poll prize.) Other realistic prizes could include appearances in playhem after hours, face time with space shark, or the option to ban luka for the day (as if people would decline) :D
Playhem has been my favorite Starcraft 2 stream to watch since I first tuned in a little over a month ago. I enjoy all of the casters, especially Frodan ( ♥ ), Robin, Katu, and Kibbelz. The thing I like the most about the Playhem dailies is that the casters talk to their viewers and to each other, instead of just talking about the game. It gives a relaxed feel to the games, and it makes the community feel a bit more involved.
The fan games I feel are also a big and important part to the Playhem dailies. Robin was talking about the possibility of a Fan-Game Day, which I think has the opportunity to be quite interesting. Perhaps we could get a little less Star Strikers though, . A Fan Game calendar where you guys decide which custom game to play before hand might be nice.
Looking forward to the Dragon vs Cella show match. ♥ ♥ ♥
I find Livinpink's cast very enjoyable, it is kinda refreshing to hear a girls laugh on a stream. I wonder If she will ever cast solo, it would be the cutest Playhem ever. :D
Ellions, igh templars, and idras, ohmy! That Quebec accent on Livinpink just makes this cast fun as fun can be - People in chat seem quite receptive as well, since she obviously knows what she is talking about - Pink and Robin make a nice duo, both very fun to listen to - even though Pink stumbles over some English words on occasion (because she speaks French, guh) she is sure to poke fun at herself rather than just pretending nothing happened - does not happen often, but when it does happen - it's funny. Exciting games too, of course. Maybe I'm biased, but I think she's a keeper - at least once a week :D
**I was asked to leave feedback by a mod, so I decided to do so**
So I've been watching the EU Playhem $75 Daily with the casters Robin and Livinpink, and I think Robin is doing an amazing job. Livinpink, unfortunately doesn't seem to have the same game knowledge as Robin. She, to me, seems to be bringing the commentating down a notch. I find her commentating bugs me a little bit, and what she is saying doesn't seem to have much relevance to the game-play.
I liked having Livinpink casting today, I think she did an awesome job and I love the diversity of casters Playhem provides (love all the accents). She may need a better mic, but generally I really enjoyed having her.
That was a great casting job. It was really nice to have Livinpink as a co-caster. I was watching live, and came back later to finish the vod. gogo! again =)
You really need to turn down your outbound volume, it's so high the sound distorts, moreso when you get excited. The sound is very much in the treble area, low bass. My twitch TV volume is at 15-20% windows volume is at 50% and the sound quality is still poor because the outbound volume is to high. It's no problem for you to turn down, the viewers can always turn up. It's getting so annoying I have to find other streams. And thats to bad because I like the casters.
Edit: For reference, when watching IPL my twitch TV volume is at 60%
Sigh, Today the IPL stream of Jjakji Vs Hero had very poor quality sound(DOA/CatsPJ) Maybe it's just a general thing in streams that the quality of sound isn't important.
Maybe only Day[9] has consistent good sound quality?
E D I T : Need to actually throw some feedback every now and then.
So yeah, I am really glad that Robin and Frodan have their love hate relationship. Never understood why Robin is sooooooo shy about video, subreddits, etc. even though he is HAWT <3.
P.S. Fans are fans. they participate in chat, follow the stream, post in feedback thread, and do it consistently. We support esports in so many way, especially through playhem. Playhem itself is the focus of my support through teamliquid, reddit, playhem itself, twitch, and justintv. I do not feel the need to make a twitter or any other form of social media to directly support the casters; as such, the encouragement of such indirect support of esports seeeeeeeeeeeemmmmsss a tad bit much. DOUBLE EDIT: I should really propose alternatives instead of just making statements, so here we go. "Fromps: They should ask a question then a make that's the answer, whoever joins the room gets invites. You: exactly. PhantomSkiez: that's what SCalaska does fromps Fromps: really? You: and the question should be something during the cast, rather than an arbitrary question ik alaska does that PhantomSkiez: yeah really Fromps: If they did a calculus question I'd ask laugh^"
On February 06 2012 13:00 Ps2 Xtreme wrote: E D I T : Need to actually throw some feedback every now and then.
So yeah, I am really glad that Robin and Frodan have their love hate relationship. Never understood why Robin is sooooooo shy about video, subreddits, etc. even though he is HAWT <3.
P.S. Fans are fans. they participate in chat, follow the stream, post in feedback thread, and do it consistently. We support esports in so many way, especially through playhem. Playhem itself is the focus of my support through teamliquid, reddit, playhem itself, twitch, and justintv. I do not feel the need to make a twitter or any other form of social media to directly support the casters; as such, the encouragement of such indirect support of esports seeeeeeeeeeeemmmmsss a tad bit much. DOUBLE EDIT: I should really propose alternatives instead of just making statements, so here we go. "Fromps: They should ask a question then a make that's the answer, whoever joins the room gets invites. You: exactly. PhantomSkiez: that's what SCalaska does fromps Fromps: really? You: and the question should be something during the cast, rather than an arbitrary question ik alaska does that PhantomSkiez: yeah really Fromps: If they did a calculus question I'd ask laugh^"
TRIPLE EDIT: make calamue a caster
Noted. When I host I will do it through Playhemfun. I truly recommend you get a twitter though :p
Katu, come on... The maps for the EWM are pre-set. The info is right here on TL for all to see. Seriously, you're the designated caster, you need to know these things.
I'd like to say, since I made posts about bad sound, it turns out, to my mega embarresment!, that my soundcard had issues, I installed a new card and sound is much better, so taking my foot out of my mouth here That said sometimes the mouth is just plain to close to microphone, when you can hear heavy breathing and the likes
Noted. When I host I will do it through Playhemfun. I truly recommend you get a twitter though :p
I probably will end up getting one, though I'm sure many guys have a similar issue with surprising lack of twitters in the playhem fan base (after seeing others with ingame responses to the twitter.) Thank you very much for responding, and I'm sorry if I came off as a pissed off asshole when I posted (mainly because I was previously pissed off from earlier and was attempting to be an asshole at the time since I was pissed off )
Noted. When I host I will do it through Playhemfun. I truly recommend you get a twitter though :p
I probably will end up getting one, though I'm sure many guys have a similar issue with surprising lack of twitters in the playhem fan base (after seeing others with ingame responses to the twitter.) Thank you very much for responding, and I'm sorry if I came off as a pissed off asshole when I posted (mainly because I was previously pissed off from earlier and was attempting to be an asshole at the time since I was pissed off )
On February 09 2012 12:42 Scratchmane wrote: Hi seeing as you didn't really answer on stream: Is there a reason any of the casters is not using the mod "Stronger team color"? if so what?
guys. just saw my first EU playhem. I watched it for TLO playing but Ill come back for your guys' casting. Sick casting really enjoyed it a lot!! MLG/IEM/Dreamhack needs to give you guys a call immediately!
Recommend putting a "commercials in progress" (or something similar) overlay during commercials, during which casters can get a drink, go to bathroom, or anything else incidental to the rigors of the cast without revealing the actions to viewers without commercials. "Explaining yourself" to the viewers seems to detract from the cast and draw the attention away from sc2. It may also provide a measure of relief for the casters, who cast for hours on end.
Just wanted to give you guys some feedback as per requested by mod.
Currently watching QxGDestiny (Z) vs EGiNcontroL (P) Bo7 for $150 | Casters: Lyrlian & Frodan
I have no lag. The caster duo works well together, are very pleasant to listen to whilst keeping a comfortable focus on the actual game being played without too much banter (banter is funny and engaging too but very often gets out of hand on some streams - as do attempts to over hype unimportant events in a game to add fake drama).
I thnk some of the casters just need to look at the minimap a little more often to make sure they catch everything...and to comment on the things in the production tab
Currently watching QxGDestiny (Z) vs EGiNcontroL (P) Bo7 for $150 | Casters: Lyrlian & Frodan
Feedback: Casters are good & no lagg w/good quality...but I would REALLY like to see the APM tab (Maybe like a few seconds for each stage of the game. Early, mid, etc.) ^^
hey guys, thanks for bringing us the Incontrol/Destiny show match, only suggestion is that you not constantly point out that the players are playing "nonstandard" and/or dragging things out. it may be true, but if you say the game is boring, the viewers will think its boring too. play it up playa.
The percentages on each side of the scoreboard are a tally of which player the viewers think will win. Before each game the Playhembot in chat links a poll where you can go to vote for your favorite of each matchup, and then it shows a live feed of those results as a percentage at the top of the screen.
Just saw new casters shamtoo and pokebunni. Not bad, but one thing that really got annoying was that they occasionally wouldn't let each other finish sentences. The problem was persistent throughout the cast, at times that were not "game critical."
If someone is always cutting me off before I finish my sentence, I make it a point to ask them to respect me enough to grant that what I have to say, all of it, is important. Otherwise I wouldnt say it.
On February 11 2012 13:36 CaB wrote: Recommend putting a "commercials in progress" (or something similar) overlay during commercials, during which casters can get a drink, go to bathroom, or anything else incidental to the rigors of the cast without revealing the actions to viewers without commercials. "Explaining yourself" to the viewers seems to detract from the cast and draw the attention away from sc2. It may also provide a measure of relief for the casters, who cast for hours on end.
Thanks for the feedback about that, our current overlay does have a small note on it that says commercials may be in progress but I was just considering making a full scene the other day for use during commercials to make it more clear.
Tip on the overlay. How about making a tab on the top side (like there is on the bottom which says "Quarter Finals - Bo3" for example), which says the website where to vote for the player support/percentages. I personally find it burdensome finding the link all the time. Or maybe at least put it in the Description section under the stream in the TeamLiquid portal.
On February 20 2012 05:50 MrCash wrote: Tip on the overlay. How about making a tab on the top side (like there is on the bottom which says "Quarter Finals - Bo3" for example), which says the website where to vote for the player support/percentages. I personally find it burdensome finding the link all the time. Or maybe at least put it in the Description section under the stream in the TeamLiquid portal.
Still best overlay in the business.
gosu.ws/poll Our chat bot posts it at the start of / during games as well, but we'll be adding the address to it on screen some time in the future to make it easier. Thanks for the compliments and feedback!
On February 20 2012 13:04 creamer wrote: im sorry but get pokebunny off no offence to pokebunny. he has great insight but his voice is just not there it irritates me and many others.
i love this show i watch almost every night but i just cannot handle the voice sorry. he has a future in casting maybe in ~4 years
I'm working on it :p just not used to talking with a casting voice, and I also sound a lot worse on low quality mics than in real life.
The only critisism I have is with the bracket page. It looks nice and does display all the correct information but, and I'm not sure if I'm the only one that gets this but, it often glitches and requires a page refresh to fix it and it's doesn't take long for it to break again. Maybe, if it's possible, you could give the option to view the bracket in a simple table?
On February 20 2012 13:04 creamer wrote: im sorry but get pokebunny off no offence to pokebunny. he has great insight but his voice is just not there it irritates me and many others.
i love this show i watch almost every night but i just cannot handle the voice sorry. he has a future in casting maybe in ~4 years
I'm working on it :p just not used to talking with a casting voice, and I also sound a lot worse on low quality mics than in real life.
Could be. I've heard you before in interviews but it just sounded different and scratchy last night. The thing is, you have in depth analysis which is very insightful and informative for fans but it hurt my ears! no hard feelings though man seriously!
Tonight (feb 20) was amazing, casting was great, I like the idea of the webcams. I like that they took a shot of whiskey haha made us feel at home in the stream not to sound like a douche or anything!
The addition of the webcams is really cool. Because it gives us viewers, the added feeling of each broadcast feeling like a sporting event broadcast on tv because we can see the casters. Overall i like the addition of the webcams.
On February 21 2012 14:31 Tameris wrote: The addition of the webcams is really cool. Because it gives us viewers, the added feeling of each broadcast feeling like a sporting event broadcast on tv because we can see the casters. Overall i like the addition of the webcams.
Pretty much what Tameris said, and it gives us something to look at in between games ^^
All the casting is surprisingly professional and very enjoyable! Webcam makes it much better, too, because it makes it feel more personal and less like NASL where it's just a replay...
Well I'll say tonights casting is defiantly original. Scrutinizing one player way too harshly calling his play "obnoxious", "mindless" & "silly" while being far more positive with the other player. Can't say I'm a fan of openly biased commentating.
Katu from playhem wrongly accused Dragon in the finals for stream cheating and constantly bmed him for making fast third command centers. His basis for his accusation was because he put a tech lab on his factory when roaches were coming and that he put a third cc..... LOL
"Original" to say the last ... Katu is just a troll, he's been slandering Dragon only to make the chat rage (and openly joking about it). That's pretty ridiculous and not what I expect from a caster.
I can't blame Playhem themselves for the unprofessional behavior of Katu this evening, but I would be extremely disappointed if they allow him to continue casting.
I'm not even a casual Dragon fan. but this is just getting ridiculous after games of insulting dragon, you're now going to lie about dragon leaving slayers because of cheating. Not sure what the point of all this.
Katu is a terribly unprofessional caster and deliberately insulted players in the daily. If this is what Playhem supports, then Playhem shouldn't be supported.
I feel bad for Katu's cocaster cause he can't control the level of stupid Katu is bringing to the table with his constant accusations against Dragon. It's one thing to have something against dragon because of his past stream cheating, but that was forever ago and he hasn't done anything wrong since.
Katu trying to say Dragon was kicked out of SlayerS for stream cheating... he doesn't even know what happened. He is making himself look like an idiot. Please get this guy off these casts.
Very unprofessional and rude of the casters to accuse Dragon of stream cheating. They have been bashing Dragon match after match without any need to. Even if he is "trolling" that is very wrong of him as a caster and I hope proper action is taken against him.
katu saying dragon cheats cause hes lagging you gotta note hes in (KOREA) idiot..and who is katu where would he have been with out playhem NO WHERE! i am dissapointed in him dearly
Someone fire the idiot caster please. Seriously you accusing dragon of stream cheating? Then you just say, "HERP DERP GUYS UR ALL SO FUNNY, I WAS JUST TROLLIN."
You sounded dead serious and now you're just covering up for your ignorance and just flat out zero game awareness.
I love PlayhemTV, but they were completely out of line tonight. They accused Dragon of stream cheating and bringing up his past, due to his lag - he is playing cross-servers. Then they have the audacity to have completely biased commentary, constantly calling his playstyle "obnoxious", "mindless", etc...
I had a lot of respect for PlayhemTV, but this is just disgusting. I don't care if you they are trolling or not, this is not how you represent your tournament and yourselves in the SC2 community. I would suggest people not follow their ways.
Wow, Playhem casters just killed their reputation. They were so obnoxious and ignorant, they even laughed at Dragon. Wtf? They even laughed and us (the fans/chat). This is ridiculous, what happened to the professionalism. So disappointing.
I've watched this stream twice. First time, they were anti-semitic and laughing about gaybashing jokes. That's not acceptable in any way. Next time I watch it, they're accusing a Korean that's lagging cuz of cross-server lag of stream cheating without the slightest bit of evidence. I don't understand why people watch this stream, it's disgusting.
Dragon drops a super early third cc against unscouted roach all-in. Katu proceeds to accuse Dragon of stream cheating based on the fact that he didnt swap his factory to the reactor. Okay, mistakes happen. Rather than correct that mistake, digs in his heels. Goes on to insult the stream's viewers.
Katu, shame on you. It was immature and distasteful.
Seriously remove Katu. He's completely unprofessional and led to two THOUSAND people leaving the stream. He attacked Dragon, laughs at the chat because he's such a 'master troll', AND misses actual game content because he's clearing the chat constantly because everyone is pissed at what he said.
Katu is a terrible caster. He just told everyone air to f off if they don't like him, I will personally never watch another playhem stream again as long as he is a caster for playhem.
It actually sickens me that katu thinks its funny to slander someone like this when he even admitted himself that there was no proof. The casting was terrible and completely one sided. I will never watch a playhem stream again or go on there website.
Katu needs a suspension, or better yet just get rid of him. He said Dragon is no longer on SlayerS because he is a cheater, which is clearly not true. What an unprofessional caster. Then as soon as we complain in chat he just laughs and bm's the fans as well. I like Playhem, but Katu has got to go.
Katu, the current caster on the Playhem channel is making absurd suggestions that dragon is "stream cheating" because he started to lag. This was extremely unprofessional of Katu to accuse Dragon, a player of your tournament, of such things regardless of his past.
I believe the casters are completely out of line. No question about it. It seems like they think they are invincible, immune to the people on the internet. I can assure you, the internet is quite a nasty place, and one you do not wish to anger, at peril to yourself. I would like to see the removal of the caster(s) in question, and replaced with competent, informative, knowledgable people who actually know what they're talking about, and are not biased right from the start.
How is Katu's constant "I love that they're mad" acceptable? Is this the goal of Playhem? To make their viewers mad? Honestly don't understand wtf I was watching. Dragon was not stream cheating, he has his OWN STREAM UP. Everyone can see wtf he's doing. Totally unprofessional and absolutely ridiculous behaviour.
i used to enjoy watching playhem dailys. but srsly Katu just beeing BM and unproffesional, slanging lies about Dragon and obviously dont know the full story. People who don't know what happen might just belive him.
Seriously hope Playhem looks into this, cause Katu was straight up beeing a jerk.
Having watched Playhem regularly since inception, I have just witnessed something quite appalling - a caster accusing Dragon of stream cheating. Laughing as chat errupts with outrage. This is not the sort of organisation I can support any longer - and so I shall not. I urge you - the Playhem Boss's to watch the VoD of the final US games tonight. A statement from you addressing previously loyal supporters would be a start. Sacking Katu would be a second jesture. You'll need to work to regain community support after such unprofessional slander.
katu really needs to get suspended for this unbelievable behavior. Most importantly, none of the viewers think it's funny and I think it is very unprofessional of him to talk about a player being banned etc causally, and even mockingly laugh about it. The other co-caster Bonk told Katu to keep him out of it as well.
I'm never going to support Playhem again as long as it's a cast with Katu
Please read this before you keep on arguing. What he did was uncalled for but wasn't a complete lie as some of you are insisting. This crusade against Katu is sad and immature and it's a shame to see a community crumble over a few words.
"After speaking with TheStC and members of WeRRa, Dragon publicly apologized to TheStC, members of oGs and WeRRa. After Dragon was accused of maphacking, streamcheating and match fixing on PlayXP-forums[9], he then replied that "he was sorry for what he had done" but didn't go into detail which parts of the allegations were true. Furthermore he stated that he would “never dream of other tournaments, televised matches, or pursue a career as a pro-gamer.”[10]"
I just started watching playhem, and already i hate it, already i cannot stand it. A caster named katu, is destroying the cast. He ruined it. Accusing Dragon, of stream cheating and teasing, and insulting the VIEWERS. for raging. you need to kill this caster, You guys are losing all your viewers, and everyone is going to dragon's cast. getting katu to cast , is a horrible mistake, i will never listen to this ass hole, and neither will 4,000 or more people. Please fire him asap. He knows NOTHING about dragon and he says dragon is lieing about lagging, but 4k people + who are watching dragon's stream. Know that he is NOT LIEING. katu is just a horrible caster, erupting in laughter at our rage, then starting to troll dragon, saying how dragon is bad, and no terrans go for factory after barracks, He is just horrible. A troll, dont ever hire him agian.
On February 28 2012 14:22 Skiinz19 wrote: Please read this before you keep on arguing. What he did was uncalled for but wasn't a complete lie as some of you are insisting. This crusade against Katu is sad and immature and it's a shame to see a community crumble over a few words.
"After speaking with TheStC and members of WeRRa, Dragon publicly apologized to TheStC, members of oGs and WeRRa. After Dragon was accused of maphacking, streamcheating and match fixing on PlayXP-forums[9], he then replied that "he was sorry for what he had done" but didn't go into detail which parts of the allegations were true. Furthermore he stated that he would “never dream of other tournaments, televised matches, or pursue a career as a pro-gamer.”[10]"
We know his past, but doing what he did to purposely troll the chat. And then making up that he was kicked out of SlayerS due to cheating and banned from tournaments because of this, is completely untrue.
You are a caster, your job is to cast the games being presented, not slander players because of their past and definitely not make up lies.
These casters are so unprofessional. On Dragon's stream, he was clearly lagging badly. However, he did not ask for pause or say anything and tried to calm himself saying it was okay. He was just making the best of the situation and was too proud or maybe unclear whether it was okay to ask for spectators to leave or whatever. Viewers of Dragon's stream then were saying on Playhem's chat that Dragon was lagging.
Upon reading this, Katu says "Yah, he lost apparently because of lag, not because of building three CC's against a roach all-in. *snickers* Even if he did lag, and I'm not implying stream cheating, what are reasons he would lag?" Katu later goes on and just blatantly implies that Dragon was stream cheating and using his past history as evidence, even though the build Dragon did during the game wouldn't make any sense if he was. I don't want to say any specific names, but there are other professional SC2 players currently who have a history with cheating but have fixed their ways and are revered players.
Katu then forgets about actually casting the second game and reads the chat instead, laughing at how angry people are at how he trashed Dragon. Then he mockingly says that he might as well officially state that Dragon is stream cheating. He then laughs during the cast and types in the Playhem.tv chat strings of "HAHAHAHA". He finds that his ego is more important than acting like a professional caster.
As a long time member of TL, I find that this episode of casting is extremely disrespectful and childish.
On February 28 2012 14:22 Skiinz19 wrote: Please read this before you keep on arguing. What he did was uncalled for but wasn't a complete lie as some of you are insisting. This crusade against Katu is sad and immature and it's a shame to see a community crumble over a few words.
"After speaking with TheStC and members of WeRRa, Dragon publicly apologized to TheStC, members of oGs and WeRRa. After Dragon was accused of maphacking, streamcheating and match fixing on PlayXP-forums[9], he then replied that "he was sorry for what he had done" but didn't go into detail which parts of the allegations were true. Furthermore he stated that he would “never dream of other tournaments, televised matches, or pursue a career as a pro-gamer.”[10]"
You are aware of how long ago that was correct? Dragon joined Slayers AFTER this happened, obviously this event did not cause him to leave Slayers. Get your facts correct.
Cant believe how unprofessional those casters were. -Accusing Dragon of stream cheating when we can see him on cam looking at his own screen the whole time -"the chat is getting mad at us? eat it"
Why would you even say that? He wasnt stream cheating... also why would you insult your own viewers? Cant believe how stupid that one caster was...
On February 28 2012 14:25 deathgod6 wrote: These casters are so unprofessional. On Dragon's stream, he was clearly lagging badly. However, he did not ask for pause or say anything and tried to calm himself saying it was okay. He was just making the best of the situation and was too proud or maybe unclear whether it was okay to ask for spectators to leave or whatever. Viewers of Dragon's stream then were saying on Playhem's chat that Dragon was lagging.
Upon reading this, Katu says "Yah, he lost apparently because of lag, not because of building three CC's against a roach all-in. *snickers* Even if he did lag, and I'm not implying stream cheating, what are reasons he would lag?" Katu later goes on and just blatantly implies that Dragon was stream cheating and using his past history as evidence, even though the build Dragon did during the game wouldn't make any sense if he was. I don't want to say any specific names, but there are other professional SC2 players currently who have a history with cheating but have fixed their ways and are revered players.
Katu then forgets about actually casting the second game and reads the chat instead, laughing at how angry people are at how he trashed Dragon. Then he mockingly says that he might as well officially state that Dragon is stream cheating. He then laughs during the cast and types in the Playhem.tv chat strings of "HAHAHAHA". He finds that his ego is more important than acting like a professional caster.
As a long time member of TL, I find that this episode of casting is extremely disrespectful and childish.
He also went 3 CC because he had minerals banked and was planning for the mid-late game, which is what differentiates pros and amateurs such as the shitty casters. If Dragon had held that off, he would've been in good shape and would've rolled TSL HYUN like he did in game two.
Fire that retarded as **** caster Katu. So terrible. No professionalism, cares more about himself than what he's supposed to be doing. I feel sorry that Playhem and Dragon had to take hits for someone who's so egotistical about themselves.
On February 28 2012 14:22 Skiinz19 wrote: Please read this before you keep on arguing. What he did was uncalled for but wasn't a complete lie as some of you are insisting. This crusade against Katu is sad and immature and it's a shame to see a community crumble over a few words.
"After speaking with TheStC and members of WeRRa, Dragon publicly apologized to TheStC, members of oGs and WeRRa. After Dragon was accused of maphacking, streamcheating and match fixing on PlayXP-forums[9], he then replied that "he was sorry for what he had done" but didn't go into detail which parts of the allegations were true. Furthermore he stated that he would “never dream of other tournaments, televised matches, or pursue a career as a pro-gamer.”[10]"
You people won't be happy until hes crucified and fired from his job and SC2 all together...It's amazing how you people act attempt to ruin this man's life. What did he ACTUALLY do? Jokingly said a few lines towards Dragon who hasn't reacted in the slightest. He's been reading his stream and sees whats what.
he played with a reputation of a player who came trough previously bad reputation about stream cheating and dropped the bomb of him leaving slayers because stream cheating and be in fact cheating in that game i dont think thats the caster job and he should drop accusation like that in front of 2k people
On February 28 2012 14:26 BEASTMODE7 wrote: I made a Team Liquid account strictly to post on this thread and make a complaint on the caster - Katu. Thanks.
I did as well, Katu's comments were completely out of line regardless if he was "joking" or not
katu, again is bad mannered and as soon as he sees, so many complaints on playhem, he apologies, but please listen. When we were raging for the first 5 minutes. he laughed, he made fun of us. he just laughed at our rage, because he though we couldnt do anything, he didnt think we'd get his ass reported! and AS SOON AS HE sees our complaints are a threat, he apologies, I will not accept his apology. never. once, again. and then, ONCE Again he makes us mad after saying
"Oh sorry ragers, but looks like i will keep my job and i'll stay here for regulars" hes purposely making us pissed.
Please, I will NEVER support playhem, I will tell every friend i have that watch streams to not support playhem and to never watch it. until katu is banned.
I was so inraged. I made a team liquid account JUST to post this treat and make a complaint on the caster katu. Please kill him. i made it just for him.
I can't believe he was instigating the chat/viewers/dragon fans like that. Seriously uncalled for.What did he expect them to do? Not defend one of their favorite players getting bm'ed during a cast? Very very disappointed in Playhem today.
On February 28 2012 14:28 Skiinz19 wrote: You people won't be happy until hes crucified and fired from his job and SC2 all together...It's amazing how you people act attempt to ruin this man's life. What did he ACTUALLY do? Jokingly said a few lines towards Dragon who hasn't reacted in the slightest. He's been reading his stream and sees whats what.
exactly, Katu even stated as fact like he knew everything about Dragon stating that he "got kicked out of Slayers and is banned from events" because of his past. What is that saying then, Playhem allows cheaters in their tournaments? Katu's statement is just ignorant and makes no sense.
Katu is completely BM and doesn't have any right to start rumors about Dragon and say that hes stream cheating, hes being completely biased when it comes to his comments about Dragon and his opponents, saying Dragon is obnoxious and "silly" he needs to keep those comments to himself and just talk about whats going on and not be so biased against people favoring one player over another. PERIOD...
On February 28 2012 14:28 Skiinz19 wrote: You people won't be happy until hes crucified and fired from his job and SC2 all together...It's amazing how you people act attempt to ruin this man's life. What did he ACTUALLY do? Jokingly said a few lines towards Dragon who hasn't reacted in the slightest. He's been reading his stream and sees whats what.
As a caster for the Playhem Daily, I can say that everyone at Playhem treats each player with the utmost respect. Katu had an oversight with his comments and it was unfortunate.
We do not disrepect players at all
Unfortunately Katu just took it a little too far this time.
Please do not let this reflect on the rest of us casters and please forgive Katu for his obvious misstep.
On February 28 2012 14:32 Psylence wrote: As a caster for the Playhem Daily, I can say that everyone at Playhem treats each player with the utmost respect. Katu has disappointed me incredibly with his lack of respect. This is not what Playhem is about at all.
There is a certain point where you make a joke but continuing something so silly saddens me greatly. Unfortunately Katu just took it a little too far this time.
Please do not let this reflect on the rest of us casters and please forgive Katu for his obvious misstep.
On February 28 2012 14:32 Psylence wrote: As a caster for the Playhem Daily, I can say that everyone at Playhem treats each player with the utmost respect. Katu has disappointed me incredibly with his lack of respect. This is not what Playhem is about at all.
There is a certain point where you make a joke but continuing something so silly saddens me greatly. Unfortunately Katu just took it a little too far this time.
Please do not let this reflect on the rest of us casters and please forgive Katu for his obvious misstep.
On February 28 2012 14:32 Psylence wrote: As a caster for the Playhem Daily, I can say that everyone at Playhem treats each player with the utmost respect. Katu has disappointed me incredibly with his lack of respect. This is not what Playhem is about at all.
There is a certain point where you make a joke but continuing something so silly saddens me greatly. Unfortunately Katu just took it a little too far this time.
Please do not let this reflect on the rest of us casters and please forgive Katu for his obvious misstep.
i'm sure many of us would request a sincere apology from katu to dragon himself
On February 28 2012 14:28 Skiinz19 wrote: You people won't be happy until hes crucified and fired from his job and SC2 all together...It's amazing how you people act attempt to ruin this man's life. What did he ACTUALLY do? Jokingly said a few lines towards Dragon who hasn't reacted in the slightest. He's been reading his stream and sees whats what.
If this his job he should treat it like that, A JOB. If he's going to scrutinize players and then BM the fans, yea he should be fired from Playhem no doubt about it.
If he truly enjoyed what he's doing, he wouldn't have done it in the first place. He should of thought of his actions before saying the BS that came from his mouth.
Was watching the stream and decided to make an account here in response to Katu. First playhem I watched and probably the last. Unprofessional, saying dragon was stream cheating ? We could see that was 100% false since Dragon was streaming during the tournament. Then Katu starts laughing at the outraged chat rather than admitting he's wrong and apologizing? Seriously? I don't know where you found this guy but he is completely ridiculous. What a shame.
Not gonna watch anymore with him casting... Casters cannot pick sides and have bad manners towards players they are casting for.. I dont think this was trolling. Just being rude.
You can't just accuse someone of stream cheating publicly without some kind of proof. Especially with Dragon's past, that's the kind of thing that can cause durable damage to his reputation. Completely unacceptable in my opinion.
It is especially infuriating that after the chat started raging (for good reason), he went on to say he got a kick out of it and trolled some more to fuel the fire.
Viewership is a portion of PlayhemTV's income. When a caster (Katu) is taunting the viewers, it hurts the reputation of the PlayhemTV company. There are people who will now never watch PlayhemTV because of the taunting and disrespect.
It was pretty poor form. I haven't seen someone go off like that about someone on a stream before least of all a somewhat "professional" cast. Then trolling or hating on the viewers and laughing at them... Apology was quite insincere.
On February 28 2012 14:43 Antiks_ wrote: It was pretty poor form. I haven't seen someone go off like that about someone on a stream before least of all a somewhat "professional" cast. Then trolling or hating on the viewers and laughing at them... Apology was quite insincere.
Exactly it was never an apology, it was an "I'm sorry you guys took it this way" not "Im sorry for my actions."
On February 28 2012 14:25 deathgod6 wrote: These casters are so unprofessional. On Dragon's stream, he was clearly lagging badly. However, he did not ask for pause or say anything and tried to calm himself saying it was okay. He was just making the best of the situation and was too proud or maybe unclear whether it was okay to ask for spectators to leave or whatever. Viewers of Dragon's stream then were saying on Playhem's chat that Dragon was lagging.
Upon reading this, Katu says "Yah, he lost apparently because of lag, not because of building three CC's against a roach all-in. *snickers* Even if he did lag, and I'm not implying stream cheating, what are reasons he would lag?" Katu later goes on and just blatantly implies that Dragon was stream cheating and using his past history as evidence, even though the build Dragon did during the game wouldn't make any sense if he was. I don't want to say any specific names, but there are other professional SC2 players currently who have a history with cheating but have fixed their ways and are revered players.
Katu then forgets about actually casting the second game and reads the chat instead, laughing at how angry people are at how he trashed Dragon. Then he mockingly says that he might as well officially state that Dragon is stream cheating. He then laughs during the cast and types in the Playhem.tv chat strings of "HAHAHAHA". He finds that his ego is more important than acting like a professional caster.
As a long time member of TL, I find that this episode of casting is extremely disrespectful and childish.
This was the first and only time I will ever watch this stream. I pop into Dragon's stream every now and then and saw him competing in this tournament tonight. Watching any player compete in these tournaments from their point of view is always entertaining especially because of the amount of games they need to win to get 1st place. Once he reached the semi final and people in his chat said that the games were being cast I thought "oh cool I'll watch both". Right after the game starts one of the casters says the zerg is his teammate. The casters seemed fairly biased against Dragon. I was fine with it up until it started getting annoying to the point where I was thinking "Ok guys the zerg player is also making some mistakes and is actually behind right now.". Then one of the casters started laughing at the chat raging at him which is when I turned off the stream.
It's fine if he was biased for his teammate but poking fun at the chat players raging seemed uncalled for. I understand that it's not the most watched tournament but the casters have to know that dragon has a decent sized fan base (he had more viewers than the tournament stream) and shouldn't taunt his fans.
It wasn't really offensive or anything but it was just a "wtf" moment for me watching this stream and is why I wont watch it again.
On February 28 2012 14:25 deathgod6 wrote: These casters are so unprofessional. On Dragon's stream, he was clearly lagging badly. However, he did not ask for pause or say anything and tried to calm himself saying it was okay. He was just making the best of the situation and was too proud or maybe unclear whether it was okay to ask for spectators to leave or whatever. Viewers of Dragon's stream then were saying on Playhem's chat that Dragon was lagging.
Upon reading this, Katu says "Yah, he lost apparently because of lag, not because of building three CC's against a roach all-in. *snickers* Even if he did lag, and I'm not implying stream cheating, what are reasons he would lag?" Katu later goes on and just blatantly implies that Dragon was stream cheating and using his past history as evidence, even though the build Dragon did during the game wouldn't make any sense if he was. I don't want to say any specific names, but there are other professional SC2 players currently who have a history with cheating but have fixed their ways and are revered players.
Katu then forgets about actually casting the second game and reads the chat instead, laughing at how angry people are at how he trashed Dragon. Then he mockingly says that he might as well officially state that Dragon is stream cheating. He then laughs during the cast and types in the Playhem.tv chat strings of "HAHAHAHA". He finds that his ego is more important than acting like a professional caster.
As a long time member of TL, I find that this episode of casting is extremely disrespectful and childish.
When a player is suffering from lag while streaming their play, why is it the caster's responsibility to glance at chat (a common place for people to state facts such as "Day[9] Died") and then pause the game? In any other tournament environment (the standard everyone is currently upholding Katu to) it is the player's responsibility to request pauses.
Also, I don't think calling for Katu to kill himself, or to be killed, etc. is the proper way to go about solving this issue. Something this event has proven is that Dragon has a huge portion of very immature fans (something I think to be brought about by the nature of his play). Furthermore, Playhem is currently streaming another show which is being completely derailed by Dragon's fans. If you want to accuse someone of unprofessional-ism, try to do it in a professional way.
As someone who employs Katu for multiple events, I have spoken to him and warned him that anything like that is completely unacceptable in my events. However, I will not be suspending his casting for any of my events as he is, despite one moment of rash behavior, one of the best casters around. I think something people need to realize that everyone makes mistakes and overall, Katu is still a great caster.
Just made an account here precisely for this reason as well.
I have watched Dragon stream for a long time. He is always a very good natured and open caster. He doesn't just seem like a very good, creative and entertaining player to watch, but also like a very good person.
I am aware of what happened after he left Slayers, but he has been working hard to rebuild that trust. He streams all his games now so everyone can see what he sees. My personal feeling is that he is afraid of losing and can get nervous in tournaments, and this was maybe why he did what he did. It is not an excuse, but maybe a reason why a decent player made the wrong choice at one point.
I feel at this point that making 10 jokes about it during a tournament is a cheap kick to the groin. I am also disappointed that the "apology" was just "I am surprised and sorry that you all became so angry when I was trolling you". Maybe another apology came after that, I left the stream.
That said, since there should be room for forgiving, I think we should also be able to forgive Katu.
Also, I don't think calling for Katu to kill himself, or to be killed, etc. is the proper way to go about solving this issue. Something this event has proven is that Dragon has a huge portion of very immature fans (something I think to be brought about by the nature of his play). Furthermore, Playhem is currently streaming another show which is being completely derailed by Dragon's fans. If you want to accuse someone of unprofessional-ism, try to do it in a professional way.
Fair enough but... I'm not entirely sure how this get's turned around and becomes the viewers fault. The whole issue wouldn't have existed without his behavior in the first place. It's not his place to ref the match or manage lag but it is his place to cast in a responsible professional manner, which is not something he did. I'm not even one of dragons fans and I took issue with his comments, as did some of your own casters. Overall I think most of the community would take issue. Some would say pointing fingers back is just as immature, I guess this discussion is done though.
On February 28 2012 14:25 deathgod6 wrote: These casters are so unprofessional. On Dragon's stream, he was clearly lagging badly. However, he did not ask for pause or say anything and tried to calm himself saying it was okay. He was just making the best of the situation and was too proud or maybe unclear whether it was okay to ask for spectators to leave or whatever. Viewers of Dragon's stream then were saying on Playhem's chat that Dragon was lagging.
Upon reading this, Katu says "Yah, he lost apparently because of lag, not because of building three CC's against a roach all-in. *snickers* Even if he did lag, and I'm not implying stream cheating, what are reasons he would lag?" Katu later goes on and just blatantly implies that Dragon was stream cheating and using his past history as evidence, even though the build Dragon did during the game wouldn't make any sense if he was. I don't want to say any specific names, but there are other professional SC2 players currently who have a history with cheating but have fixed their ways and are revered players.
Katu then forgets about actually casting the second game and reads the chat instead, laughing at how angry people are at how he trashed Dragon. Then he mockingly says that he might as well officially state that Dragon is stream cheating. He then laughs during the cast and types in the Playhem.tv chat strings of "HAHAHAHA". He finds that his ego is more important than acting like a professional caster.
As a long time member of TL, I find that this episode of casting is extremely disrespectful and childish.
When a player is suffering from lag while streaming their play, why is it the caster's responsibility to glance at chat (a common place for people to state facts such as "Day[9] Died") and then pause the game? In any other tournament environment (the standard everyone is currently upholding Katu to) it is the player's responsibility to request pauses.
Also, I don't think calling for Katu to kill himself, or to be killed, etc. is the proper way to go about solving this issue. Something this event has proven is that Dragon has a huge portion of very immature fans (something I think to be brought about by the nature of his play). Furthermore, Playhem is currently streaming another show which is being completely derailed by Dragon's fans. If you want to accuse someone of unprofessional-ism, try to do it in a professional way.
As someone who employs Katu for multiple events, I have spoken to him and warned him that anything like that is completely unacceptable in my events. However, I will not be suspending his casting for any of my events as he is, despite one moment of rash behavior, one of the best casters around. I think something people need to realize that everyone makes mistakes and overall, Katu is still a great caster.
Okay, let's break down your response.
When a player is suffering from lag while streaming their play, why is it the caster's responsibility to glance at chat (a common place for people to state facts such as "Day[9] Died") and then pause the game? In any other tournament environment (the standard everyone is currently upholding Katu to) it is the player's responsibility to request pauses.
I never blamed Katu nor the casters that it was their fault that Dragon was lagging. I never called that they should replay game 1. I was merely providing background on the events that I would be discussing.
Also, I don't think calling for Katu to kill himself, or to be killed, etc. is the proper way to go about solving this issue. Something this event has proven is that Dragon has a huge portion of very immature fans (something I think to be brought about by the nature of his play). Furthermore, Playhem is currently streaming another show which is being completely derailed by Dragon's fans. If you want to accuse someone of unprofessional-ism, try to do it in a professional way.
Okay, did you even read my message? I never said anything about "Katu killing himself" nor said anything that should be done to him, although personally I think he should be suspended at least. Dragon may have immature fans, but I am not one of them. I am not watching your other show so I would not know anything about that chat being derailed. How was my post of the series of events not written in a professional way? On the contrary, you accusing me of things I did not say is very unprofessional. You are generalizing me and my statement in your broad view of "Dragon fans" and I think you have failed to read my post correctly.
As someone who employs Katu for multiple events, I have spoken to him and warned him that anything like that is completely unacceptable in my events. However, I will not be suspending his casting for any of my events as he is, despite one moment of rash behavior, one of the best casters around. I think something people need to realize that everyone makes mistakes and overall, Katu is still a great caster.
As I stated before, I personally think that Katu should be punished but that is not up to me. I also failed the mention that Katu falsely stated as he was legitimately trying to explain his side that Dragon got kicked out of Slayers and is banned from events for cheating. What does that say about Playhem then, that it allows blatant and known stream cheaters in their events? Obviously not, but that shows the logic of one of "the best casters around."
VirgilSC2, Katu was obviously in the wrong and you trying to justify it by saying that Dragon's fans are immature and rabid is just laughable. You not even reading my post and accusing me of being unprofessional about my statement also reflects on your judgment.
I was one of the ones asking for a pause during game 1 as well. But not really expecting one, because I know that is the responsibility of the player himself.
On February 28 2012 14:25 deathgod6 wrote: These casters are so unprofessional. On Dragon's stream, he was clearly lagging badly. However, he did not ask for pause or say anything and tried to calm himself saying it was okay. He was just making the best of the situation and was too proud or maybe unclear whether it was okay to ask for spectators to leave or whatever. Viewers of Dragon's stream then were saying on Playhem's chat that Dragon was lagging.
Upon reading this, Katu says "Yah, he lost apparently because of lag, not because of building three CC's against a roach all-in. *snickers* Even if he did lag, and I'm not implying stream cheating, what are reasons he would lag?" Katu later goes on and just blatantly implies that Dragon was stream cheating and using his past history as evidence, even though the build Dragon did during the game wouldn't make any sense if he was. I don't want to say any specific names, but there are other professional SC2 players currently who have a history with cheating but have fixed their ways and are revered players.
Katu then forgets about actually casting the second game and reads the chat instead, laughing at how angry people are at how he trashed Dragon. Then he mockingly says that he might as well officially state that Dragon is stream cheating. He then laughs during the cast and types in the Playhem.tv chat strings of "HAHAHAHA". He finds that his ego is more important than acting like a professional caster.
As a long time member of TL, I find that this episode of casting is extremely disrespectful and childish.
When a player is suffering from lag while streaming their play, why is it the caster's responsibility to glance at chat (a common place for people to state facts such as "Day[9] Died") and then pause the game? In any other tournament environment (the standard everyone is currently upholding Katu to) it is the player's responsibility to request pauses.
Also, I don't think calling for Katu to kill himself, or to be killed, etc. is the proper way to go about solving this issue. Something this event has proven is that Dragon has a huge portion of very immature fans (something I think to be brought about by the nature of his play). Furthermore, Playhem is currently streaming another show which is being completely derailed by Dragon's fans. If you want to accuse someone of unprofessional-ism, try to do it in a professional way.
As someone who employs Katu for multiple events, I have spoken to him and warned him that anything like that is completely unacceptable in my events. However, I will not be suspending his casting for any of my events as he is, despite one moment of rash behavior, one of the best casters around. I think something people need to realize that everyone makes mistakes and overall, Katu is still a great caster.
When a player is suffering from lag while streaming their play, why is it the caster's responsibility to glance at chat (a common place for people to state facts such as "Day[9] Died") and then pause the game? In any other tournament environment (the standard everyone is currently upholding Katu to) it is the player's responsibility to request pauses.
I never blamed Katu nor the casters that it was their fault that Dragon was lagging. I never called that they should replay game 1. I was merely providing background on the events that I would be discussing.
Also, I don't think calling for Katu to kill himself, or to be killed, etc. is the proper way to go about solving this issue. Something this event has proven is that Dragon has a huge portion of very immature fans (something I think to be brought about by the nature of his play). Furthermore, Playhem is currently streaming another show which is being completely derailed by Dragon's fans. If you want to accuse someone of unprofessional-ism, try to do it in a professional way.
Okay, did you even read what I typed? I never said anything like that about Katu nor said anything that should be done to him, although personally I think he should be suspended at least. Dragon may have immature fans, but I am not one of them. I am not watching your other show so I would not know anything about that chat being derailed. How was my post of the series of events not written in a professional way? On the contrary, you accusing me of things I did not say is very unprofessional.
As someone who employs Katu for multiple events, I have spoken to him and warned him that anything like that is completely unacceptable in my events. However, I will not be suspending his casting for any of my events as he is, despite one moment of rash behavior, one of the best casters around. I think something people need to realize that everyone makes mistakes and overall, Katu is still a great caster.
As I stated before, I personally think that Katu should be punished but that is not up to me. I also failed the mention that Katu falsely stated as he was legitimately trying to explain his side that Dragon got kicked out of Slayers and is banned from events for cheating. What does that say about Playhem then, that it allows blatant and known stream cheaters in their events? Obviously not, but that shows the logic of one of "the best casters around."
A majority of the comments in my post were not directed at you, but the situation in general. I had thought that the fact I was referring to things that occurred, but were not part of your post would have been clear enough to state that. I did not accuse you of anything.
Yes, Katu did incorrectly cite Dragon's past history as a stream-cheater as the reason for his separation from the SlayerS clan, which was very unprofessional, and potentially very damaging. However, something I've noticed that many Dragon fans seem to be unaware of, is his past offenses. I think the reaction this situation is generating is entirely uncalled for, as the situation has been addressed and is being dealt with by the parties involved.
Furthermore, as it might be necessary to state with this fanbase, I do not share any affiliations with Playhem.
Katu made a mistake, we get it. Calm down. He didn't realize people would misinterpret his trolling and that his audience had expanded to a ton of Dragon fans who would get on his case about it. He also probably took the trolling a little too far. His words were clearly not ill-intentioned or meant to be taken seriously in any way, so stop overreacting.
On February 28 2012 14:32 Psylence wrote: As a caster for the Playhem Daily, I can say that everyone at Playhem treats each player with the utmost respect. Katu had an oversight with his comments and it was unfortunate.
We do not disrepect players at all
Unfortunately Katu just took it a little too far this time.
Please do not let this reflect on the rest of us casters and please forgive Katu for his obvious misstep.
This is idiotic. Katu clearly disproved this. Katu's idiocy doesn't reflect on the rest of you, but stating "[Katu] treats each player with the utmost respect" and "[Katu does] not disrespect players at all" is demonstrably false, and does reflect on you. As a viewer of the Playhem Daily, I can say that with respect to Katu's cast tonight, you're clearly wrong. And assuming that you've actually viewed the cast, you're lying as well.
@VirgilSC2, if you're going to speak to the general public, that is fine. However, if you are going to quote someone's statement then speak about that statement itself and not a generalization because your response seemed addressed particularly towards me.
stop calling what katu did "trolling", he was beeing straight up ignorant and BM. not what u expect of a caster of any sort. the community should all embrace the idea of spreading esports out to the people, and therefore demand people representing this lovely scene in a proper professional way. in no other scene would this behavior be suitable and the sc2 community should not defend this behavior as "trolling"
On February 28 2012 15:25 Rainling wrote: Katu made a mistake, we get it. Calm down. He didn't realize people would misinterpret his trolling and that his audience had expanded to a ton of Dragon fans who would get on his case about it. He also probably took the trolling a little too far. His words were clearly not ill-intentioned or meant to be taken seriously in any way, so stop overreacting.
Not clearly enough, apparently, so stop underreacting. Would you prefer that he not get called out on it?
On February 28 2012 15:31 deathgod6 wrote: @VirgilSC2, if you're going to speak to the general public, that is fine. However, if you are going to quote someone's statement then speak about that statement itself and not a generalization because your response seemed addressed particularly towards me.
The immediate portion following the post was in direct response to your post, the rest was not. I'm honestly not quite sure how to make it much clearer without explicitly stating it.
It's not the first time someone has misread something I've posted and jumped to conclusions, don't worry.
On February 28 2012 15:32 nilotto wrote: stop calling what katu did "trolling", he was beeing straight up ignorant and BM. not what u expect of a caster of any sort. the community should all embrace the idea of spreading esports out to the people, and therefore demand people representing this lovely scene in a proper professional way. in no other scene would this behavior be suitable and the sc2 community should not defend this behavior as "trolling"
According to Wikipedia: "In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."
What he was doing was the definition of trolling. It was intended to provoke an emotional response from the chat. AKA feigning ignorance for the purpose of being bad mannered. Basically, he made mistakes in terms of the quantity and manner of his trolling.
This was clearly not respectful to Dragon or his fans, but my point is it was an honest mistake. He never intended to imply that anything that he was saying was actually true.
So he purposely said comments that he knew would infuriate the viewers and then followed that up by laughing at their rage. That is trolling and sounds like a totally legitimate thing that a professional caster should be doing.
lol, watch the stream, at around 4:06:00 he says something about dragon dont go to events because of "something" and thats why he aint in slayers no more, he then continues to say that fans should go on living in their fantasy world, cause all he saying is the truth. so he obviously belives this, but i would prefer he dont say things like that without checking that his story match up with what actually happened.
sorry if my point has a hard time going through, english is not my primary language
On February 28 2012 15:41 Rainling wrote: This was clearly not respectful to Dragon or his fans, but my point is it was an honest mistake. He never intended to imply that anything that he was saying was actually true.
See, here is where I think a lot of us would disagree. He firsts mentions stream watching during the attack while he's casting and doesn't really elaborate or explain the 'trolling'. He says something along the lines of "oh, Dragon must have seen the roaches on the stream", then just continues on with cast. Because he just put that out there so nonchalantly, it seems like he really does believe that Dragon is in fact a cheater. He then goes on to say something similar to "so, he just 'starts lagging' right then? You know what also makes you lag? Just saying, just saying, I'm not accusing, just saying x3" or something. This doesn't seem like an "honest mistake" but instead someone who really believes that Dragon is cheating. Katu even said himself "he cannot lift that barracks because the lings will run in", then proceeds to use the fact he didn't lift to support the cheating. Well no duh he didn't lift, lings would run in, as Katu noticed. It just doesn't add up as an honest mistake. Heck, Katu never claims it was a mistake, he just claims to be trolling. He is never sorry until it looks like people are really upset, and even then, I don't think he apologizes.
Either way, it's not professional in the slightest. There are other big name players out there who have cheated in the past, yet this is not mentioned by any casters (and it shouldn't be) and for Katu to call Dragon a cheater with absolutely zero evidence.
On February 28 2012 15:35 Grantiere wrote: Not clearly enough, apparently, so stop underreacting. Would you prefer that he not get called out on it?
I would prefer that people stop calling for him to be fired or heavily punished for making this mistake. I think people are overreacting, and that people actually believe that what he was saying was intended to be accusatory in some way, which is not true.
If you watch Playhem regularly, you'll notice that several different casters also often do this sort of over-the-top trolling in matches. The responses in this thread are, in my opinion, more reactionary than rational, and lack perspective in terms of the casting environment of Playhem as a whole. It's more difficult to understand that all of this trolling is not ill-intentioned in any way if you are not familiar with Playhem.
On February 28 2012 15:41 Rainling wrote: This was clearly not respectful to Dragon or his fans, but my point is it was an honest mistake. He never intended to imply that anything that he was saying was actually true.
See, here is where I think a lot of us would disagree. He firsts mentions stream watching during the attack while he's casting and doesn't really elaborate or explain the 'trolling'. He says something along the lines of "oh, Dragon must have seen the roaches on the stream", then just continues on with cast. Because he just put that out there so nonchalantly, it seems like he really does believe that Dragon is in fact a cheater. He then goes on to say something similar to "so, he just 'starts lagging' right then? You know what also makes you lag? Just saying, just saying, I'm not accusing, just saying x3" or something. This doesn't seem like an "honest mistake" but instead someone who really believes that Dragon is cheating. Katu even said himself "he cannot lift that barracks because the lings will run in", then proceeds to use the fact he didn't lift to support the cheating. Well no duh he didn't lift, lings would run in, as Katu noticed. It just doesn't add up as an honest mistake. Heck, Katu never claims it was a mistake, he just claims to be trolling. He is never sorry until it looks like people are really upset, and even then, I don't think he apologizes.
Either way, it's not professional in the slightest. There are other big name players out there who have cheated in the past, yet this is not mentioned by any casters (and it shouldn't be) and for Katu to call Dragon a cheater with absolutely zero evidence.
I don't think you understand, he legitimately was not implying that dragon was a cheater. Katu was just tired after a long day of casting and made some stupid, tasteless jokes about Dragon. He clarified later that he did not actually intend to accuse Dragon of stream cheating, but was "trolling." I agree it's not at all professional, but I think it's just an honest mistake on his part that should be forgiven.
On February 28 2012 15:32 nilotto wrote: stop calling what katu did "trolling", he was beeing straight up ignorant and BM. not what u expect of a caster of any sort. the community should all embrace the idea of spreading esports out to the people, and therefore demand people representing this lovely scene in a proper professional way. in no other scene would this behavior be suitable and the sc2 community should not defend this behavior as "trolling"
According to Wikipedia: "In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."
What he was doing was the definition of trolling. It was intended to provoke an emotional response from the chat. AKA feigning ignorance for the purpose of being bad mannered. Basically, he made mistakes in terms of the quantity and manner of his trolling.
This was clearly not respectful to Dragon or his fans, but my point is it was an honest mistake. He never intended to imply that anything that he was saying was actually true.
Whether or not you call it trolling is irrelevant. Regardless of what you want to call it, it was completely and blatantly unprofessional. Did you not listen to how he tried to rationalize it at the end by saying "if they don't agree with me, too bad?" It's really disingenuous to say it was an honest mistake.
And even if he did not, why on earth would deliberately defaming someone be acceptable as a "joke" in the first place? You don't tell lies about someone that could seriously harm their reputation and then just say "oh, it was a joke, I didn't mean it!" after the fact. In fact, there's a word for it in the court of law: slander.
It's even more ridiculous because everything Katu said about Dragon are things that could directly harm his livelihood as a gamer. Reputation and image is a huge thing in esports. But I guess it's alright cause it's just plain old "trolling". What a fucking joke.
Whether or not you call it trolling is irrelevant. Regardless of what you want to call it, it was completely and blatantly unprofessional. Did you not listen to how he tried to rationalize it at the end by saying "if they don't agree with me, too bad?" It's really disingenuous to say it was an honest mistake.
And even if he did not, why on earth would deliberately defaming someone be acceptable as a "joke" in the first place? You don't tell lies about someone that could seriously harm their reputation and then just say "oh, it was a joke, I didn't mean it!" after the fact. In fact, there's a word for it in the court of law: slander.
It's even more ridiculous because everything Katu said about Dragon are things that could directly harm his livelihood as a gamer. Reputation and image is a huge thing in esports. But I guess it's alright cause it's just plain old "trolling". What a fucking joke.
I think you're taking Katu out of context. He said "I've apologized, I've explained what happened, and I'm sorry if you disagree, and, you know, that's fine." What was intended to be conveyed by that statement was that
1) He was sorry. (He had already apologized several times previously.) 2) He had already explained that it was meant to be a joke, not a serious accusation. 3) If you don't accept his apology and explanation, that's your own choice and he has no problem with that.
Again, I agree that he made a very stupid mistake. I just think that people are blowing it out of proportion.
Whichever way you look at it, the fact remains that Dragon is a Lone (teamless) Sc2 player looking to join a foreign team. The last thing he needs is Tournament representatives laying false, unsubstantiated accusations. So the 'was this just trolling' debate - think about how tough it must be for a young man intent on breaking away from Korea and getting to experience the world of SC2 in the foreigner scene, to find that while he was trying his best in the final of the tournement, the caster was bandying about total untruths. Sickenning if you ask me.
I want to clear up a few things about what happened tonight, and explain the full details to those who may have missed some of it and only joined part way through.
Before I start, please be aware that I do not agree with the way Katu acted and we agree that he handled the situation badly, however I want to stress more than anything that Katu did not at any point actually believe Dragon was cheating. I want everyone to know this above all else because Dragon should not be dragged into this, he was not stream cheating and did nothing wrong.
What happened: Dragon ended up on our stream as he has many times in the past, his viewers often multi-view our stream with his and so we got a large influx of viewers entering chat. Dragon's fans began criticizing Katu and his co-caster heavily during the cast and this later escalated into insults and trolling to which Katu responded by "trolling" them back. The members in chat didn't take well to this and began taking what he was saying to heart and further insulting Katu, unfortunately Katu did not step away from the situation but got caught up trying to incite the viewers with intentionally ridiculous claims (eventually hinting at him stream cheating as a cause for what we already knew was just bad lag on Dragon's part) from which point chat digressed to name calling, death threats, and pitch forks; chat became entirely unmanageable and things went down hill fast.
I want to stress again, while what Katu said was disrespectful and unprofessional, and he handled the situation very poorly, he did not actually think Dragon was cheating, or sincerely mean the other remarks he was making, they were all directed at angering the people flaming him in chat.
It's extremely unfortunate that the games we saw tonight were tarnished with childish arguments and poor behavior on our part, but what's done is done and we can't undo what transpired. Normally, respect for the players is our highest rule and one of the few we enforce with time-outs in chat, and having an incident like this occur was very out of character for how our casts normally transpire. If you were a first time viewer tonight I cannot blame you if you don't return to our stream, however I want to ask that everyone can try to put this behind us and give us a chance to improve our mistakes in the future.
From everyone that works on the production behind the PlayhemTV stream to the viewers, followers, fans, and players in our tournaments: we hope you'll accept our sincerest apologies and know that we recognize the mistakes that we made and don't intend to let them happen again.
I'm sure you guys would like that to be true. I'm a level headed 40 year old with a background in law. Broadcasting firm statements that he's a stream cheat is disgraceful and he has a good case against your caster, and by extension your organisation. If I was Dragon, I would not take this abhorrent behavior laying down. His reputation is everything to him right now and incidents as serious as this - in your tournement Finals for goodness sakes, can't be brushed off with a casual 'he was only joking/trolling guys' - it certainly didn't sound that way as I viewed the stream. I'm no Dragon fanboy - but I recognise libel and slander when I happen upon it.
On February 28 2012 15:35 Grantiere wrote: Not clearly enough, apparently, so stop underreacting. Would you prefer that he not get called out on it?
I would prefer that people stop calling for him to be fired or heavily punished for making this mistake. I think people are overreacting, and that people actually believe that what he was saying was intended to be accusatory in some way, which is not true.
If you watch Playhem regularly, you'll notice that several different casters also often do this sort of over-the-top trolling in matches. The responses in this thread are, in my opinion, more reactionary than rational, and lack perspective in terms of the casting environment of Playhem as a whole. It's more difficult to understand that all of this trolling is not ill-intentioned in any way if you are not familiar with Playhem.
Why not? What evidence do people have that he didn't intend to be accusatory, other than a self serving half-assed apology, offset by what he actually said and the manner in which he said it? People are not so socially inept as to not recognize when someone means what they say.
People are well within their right to call for punishment. Clearly he won't be in any meaningful way, given that the casting environment of Playhem apparently condones trolling and unprofessionalism as you point out. Why then are you upset that people want to vent their frustration in a public way? Do you not see that as indication that perhaps Playhem should reconsider their approach? Or are you suggesting that Playhem's over-the-top trolling satisfies a niche target audience (which Dragon effectively doubled today), and that the problem with Katu's casting lies with the audience's reaction to it, like Virgil seems to suggest?
And let's be honest. Trolling is always ill-intentioned to some degree.
Are you kidding me? He was so serious, watch the video... damn. Once he saw the outrage from the viewers he instantly started to backpedal and play if off like a joke. Why couldn't he just apologize, instead he pretended that he was only "trolling," and then started to tell the fans to F off basically and leave the channel. This is an absolute PR disaster, I can't believe you are defending this moron.
On February 28 2012 16:30 PlayhemTV wrote: Hi everyone (and reddit),
I want to clear up a few things about what happened tonight, and explain the full details to those who may have missed some of it and only joined part way through.
Before I start, please be aware that I do not agree with the way Katu acted and we agree that he handled the situation badly, however I want to stress more than anything that Katu did not at any point actually believe Dragon was cheating. I want everyone to know this above all else because Dragon should not be dragged into this, he was not stream cheating and did nothing wrong.
What happened: Dragon ended up on our stream as he has many times in the past, his viewers often multi-view our stream with his and so we got a large influx of viewers entering chat. Dragon's fans began criticizing Katu and his co-caster heavily during the cast and this later escalated into insults and trolling to which Katu responded by "trolling" them back. The members in chat didn't take well to this and began taking what he was saying to heart and further insulting Katu, unfortunately Katu did not step away from the situation but got caught up trying to incite the viewers with intentionally ridiculous claims (eventually hinting at him stream cheating as a cause for what we already knew was just bad lag on Dragon's part) from which point chat digressed to name calling, death threats, and pitch forks; chat became entirely unmanageable and things went down hill fast.
I want to stress again, while what Katu said was disrespectful and unprofessional, and he handled the situation very poorly, he did not actually think Dragon was cheating, or sincerely mean the other remarks he was making, they were all directed at angering the people flaming him in chat.
It's extremely unfortunate that the games we saw tonight were tarnished with childish arguments and poor behavior on our part, but what's done is done and we can't undo what transpired. Normally, respect for the players is our highest rule and one of the few we enforce with time-outs in chat, and having an incident like this occur was very out of character for how our casts normally transpire. If you were a first time viewer tonight I cannot blame you if you don't return to our stream, however I want to ask that everyone can try to put this behind us and give us a chance to improve our mistakes in the future.
From everyone that works on the production behind the PlayhemTV stream to the viewers, followers, fans, and players in our tournaments: we hope you'll accept our sincerest apologies and know that we recognize the mistakes that we made and don't intend to let them happen again.
How will you handle this if it does happen again? And since others have pointed out that this isn't the first time your casters have been unprofessional, did you not care in the past, or did you just not do anything in the past?
Most of the viewers understand that Playhem never intended for things like this to happen. Is Playhem taking any steps to make sure that it does not happen again? Are you going to make sure casters understand what is unacceptable? Is the caster in question going to be punished?
Of course Playhem had no intent of something like this to happen tonight or any night. What I want as a viewer is some sort of assurance that it will not happen again.
How will you handle this if it does happen again? And since others have pointed out that this isn't the first time your casters have been unprofessional, did you not care in the past, or did you just not do anything in the past?
We are always trying to improve, we take all criticism to heart. We actively encourage all viewers to post their feedback (negative or positive) in this thread, and we work on those points. It's clear that tonight a very big line was crossed, one that previously wasn't an issue with minor incidents of trolling as nobody really brought it up to us, we recognize that and plan to make changes to improve our stream to best suit our viewers.
On February 28 2012 16:30 PlayhemTV wrote: Hi everyone (and reddit),
I want to clear up a few things about what happened tonight, and explain the full details to those who may have missed some of it and only joined part way through.
Before I start, please be aware that I do not agree with the way Katu acted and we agree that he handled the situation badly, however I want to stress more than anything that Katu did not at any point actually believe Dragon was cheating. I want everyone to know this above all else because Dragon should not be dragged into this, he was not stream cheating and did nothing wrong.
What happened: Dragon ended up on our stream as he has many times in the past, his viewers often multi-view our stream with his and so we got a large influx of viewers entering chat. Dragon's fans began criticizing Katu and his co-caster heavily during the cast and this later escalated into insults and trolling to which Katu responded by "trolling" them back. The members in chat didn't take well to this and began taking what he was saying to heart and further insulting Katu, unfortunately Katu did not step away from the situation but got caught up trying to incite the viewers with intentionally ridiculous claims (eventually hinting at him stream cheating as a cause for what we already knew was just bad lag on Dragon's part) from which point chat digressed to name calling, death threats, and pitch forks; chat became entirely unmanageable and things went down hill fast.
I want to stress again, while what Katu said was disrespectful and unprofessional, and he handled the situation very poorly, he did not actually think Dragon was cheating, or sincerely mean the other remarks he was making, they were all directed at angering the people flaming him in chat.
It's extremely unfortunate that the games we saw tonight were tarnished with childish arguments and poor behavior on our part, but what's done is done and we can't undo what transpired. Normally, respect for the players is our highest rule and one of the few we enforce with time-outs in chat, and having an incident like this occur was very out of character for how our casts normally transpire. If you were a first time viewer tonight I cannot blame you if you don't return to our stream, however I want to ask that everyone can try to put this behind us and give us a chance to improve our mistakes in the future.
From everyone that works on the production behind the PlayhemTV stream to the viewers, followers, fans, and players in our tournaments: we hope you'll accept our sincerest apologies and know that we recognize the mistakes that we made and don't intend to let them happen again.
Nonsense. I absolutely refuse to buy this. Katu wasn't trolling, it's fairly obvious he was just a misinformed, biased caster.
In the past playhem casters have had a history of being rude not only to the players, but viewers as well. Recently I've felt it has fallen off significantly, however today's events were a significant drop off in that respect. Casting should be treated as a job, not a pedestal to push their personal beliefs. You don't see Artosis complaining on how awful marauders are on GSL, despite his rather open opinion of this in youtube videos and Q&As. My point is it doesn't matter what Katu believed Dragon did, it matters if what he did was professional and acceptable way to behave as a caster.
It seems pretty clear that it was not. I think Katu has done enough work to be given some slack, but a public apology to Dragon and the community, along with a promise to improve in the future, would be appropriate. This is VERY negative PR towards Dragon, who is currently looking for a team. This definitely is not helping him, or anyone else for that matter, in any way.
On February 28 2012 16:30 PlayhemTV wrote: Hi everyone (and reddit),
I want to clear up a few things about what happened tonight, and explain the full details to those who may have missed some of it and only joined part way through.
Before I start, please be aware that I do not agree with the way Katu acted and we agree that he handled the situation badly, however I want to stress more than anything that Katu did not at any point actually believe Dragon was cheating. I want everyone to know this above all else because Dragon should not be dragged into this, he was not stream cheating and did nothing wrong.
What happened: Dragon ended up on our stream as he has many times in the past, his viewers often multi-view our stream with his and so we got a large influx of viewers entering chat. Dragon's fans began criticizing Katu and his co-caster heavily during the cast and this later escalated into insults and trolling to which Katu responded by "trolling" them back. The members in chat didn't take well to this and began taking what he was saying to heart and further insulting Katu, unfortunately Katu did not step away from the situation but got caught up trying to incite the viewers with intentionally ridiculous claims (eventually hinting at him stream cheating as a cause for what we already knew was just bad lag on Dragon's part) from which point chat digressed to name calling, death threats, and pitch forks; chat became entirely unmanageable and things went down hill fast.
I want to stress again, while what Katu said was disrespectful and unprofessional, and he handled the situation very poorly, he did not actually think Dragon was cheating, or sincerely mean the other remarks he was making, they were all directed at angering the people flaming him in chat.
It's extremely unfortunate that the games we saw tonight were tarnished with childish arguments and poor behavior on our part, but what's done is done and we can't undo what transpired. Normally, respect for the players is our highest rule and one of the few we enforce with time-outs in chat, and having an incident like this occur was very out of character for how our casts normally transpire. If you were a first time viewer tonight I cannot blame you if you don't return to our stream, however I want to ask that everyone can try to put this behind us and give us a chance to improve our mistakes in the future.
From everyone that works on the production behind the PlayhemTV stream to the viewers, followers, fans, and players in our tournaments: we hope you'll accept our sincerest apologies and know that we recognize the mistakes that we made and don't intend to let them happen again.
This is in somewhat of a contrast to what showed up in mod chat (an image that has been shared around on Reddit) Katu seemed to be upset for being reprimanded by the other mods, and did not seem to see that he did anything wrong. The rest of the mods and casters present seemed to come out strongly against what was said, but here you differ blame (which, though there is some on each side, is not the correct PR move). Because of all this, regardless of "what he meant" it doesn't seem like he fully understands the ramifications of what he said and should be at least in some manner held accountable. A properly formed official statement should include something besides the defense of the caster unless you want to vilify yourself further. What you've said here in a TLDR form is the following:
There was a back and forth between people who normally are in our chat, newcomers who are overzealous toward their enjoyment of Dragon, and a caster. The caster made unprofessional claims but didn't mean them and didn't (and possibly still does not) understand the ramifications of those claims. Therefore it is ok that it happened as long as you understand that it is not the norm. Lets move on.
What you should do is note what was wrong and explain the situation while minimizing the fault of others and taking near full responsibility (let others come forward and take their blame or not). Then state how you will rectify the situation and how the caster will play into that process, and then say we will move forward. You're missing key steps that from a PR perspective would negate some backlash, but here you leave yourself wide open for this to continue.
On February 28 2012 15:35 Grantiere wrote: Not clearly enough, apparently, so stop underreacting. Would you prefer that he not get called out on it?
I would prefer that people stop calling for him to be fired or heavily punished for making this mistake. I think people are overreacting, and that people actually believe that what he was saying was intended to be accusatory in some way, which is not true.
If you watch Playhem regularly, you'll notice that several different casters also often do this sort of over-the-top trolling in matches. The responses in this thread are, in my opinion, more reactionary than rational, and lack perspective in terms of the casting environment of Playhem as a whole. It's more difficult to understand that all of this trolling is not ill-intentioned in any way if you are not familiar with Playhem.
Why not? What evidence do people have that he didn't intend to be accusatory, other than a self serving half-assed apology, offset by what he actually said and the manner in which he said it? People are not so socially inept as to not recognize when someone means what they say.
People are well within their right to call for punishment. Clearly he won't be in any meaningful way, given that the casting environment of Playhem apparently condones trolling and unprofessionalism as you point out. Why then are you upset that people want to vent their frustration in a public way? Do you not see that as indication that perhaps Playhem should reconsider their approach? Or are you suggesting that Playhem's over-the-top trolling satisfies a niche target audience (which Dragon effectively doubled today), and that the problem with Katu's casting lies with the audience's reaction to it, like Virgil seems to suggest?
And let's be honest. Trolling is always ill-intentioned to some degree.
I probably didn't state that as clearly as I should have. Day[9] does a lot of what people could call "trolling" of players in his dailies that most people would agree is not ill-intentioned. The "trolling" I'm talking about that occurs sometimes in Playhem games is similar to that, poking fun at the players, which is much more professional and less irresponsible than what Katu did today.
What Katu did was disrespectful and uncalled for, and he probably deserves some kind of punishment. My main point was that he didn't intend it to be accusatory.
What I meant to say is that in Playhem casts, the casters sometimes joke about the players without intending their comments to be taken seriously. I'm fairly certain that this case is similar to other Playhem casts in that the comments Katu made were not intended to be accusations.
I would like to say I love watching Dragon and trying to play (albeit shittly *dunno if thats a word*) SC2, esports is relatively small and still trying to grow in the US. It is disheartening for these events to happen, even if your caster is getting "trolled" by chat previously, that is not an excuse. As many people who watch these events who have actual jobs, what happened is the equivalent of having a meeting, complaining your tired, and blurting out obscene comments because you don't like your co-worker. These acts are not acceptable for someone in a professional setting. I enjoy casters examining both players type of play and mechanics, not continually bashing a player due to his play style, I believe Dragon was called Greedy 20 times or something... that is not helpful during the cast. For companies who have the funds to have tournaments and cast them online it should be important they have employees who can expand esports in every-way possible. A half hearted apology about the trolls in chat and that "I was joking" after saying "I don't understand why fellow casters are yelling at me" is not acceptable. Please help SC2 and not create stupid rifts and controversies which lead to nothing.
On February 28 2012 16:50 MrCash wrote: In the past playhem casters have had a history of being rude not only to the players, but viewers as well. Recently I've felt it has fallen off significantly, however this is quite a big mistake. Casting should be treated as a job, not a pedestal to push their personal beliefs. You don't see Artosis complaining on how awful marauders are on GSL, despite his rather open opinion of this in youtube videos and Q&As. My point is it doesn't matter what Katu believed Dragon did, it matters if what he did was professional and acceptable way to behave as a caster.
It seems pretty clear that it was not. I think Katu has done enough work to be given some slack, but a public apology to Dragon and the community, along with a promise to improve in the future, would be appropriate.
I've had similar experiences lately, particularly with Katu. He often makes fun of players who don't play to the level of the high-grandmasters they face. I once said that I was done listening for the night because it sickened me that they treated players like that. Katu had said he didn't know "what the heck [I was] talking about."
Over the last maybe 4-6 months I've been watching almost DAILY (when its on), with fiascos such as getting banned by no one (there was a glitch that would ban me from chat but the ban log said no one did it), criticisms of Lyrlian, and even Steisjo getting mad at me for talking in Norwegian too him. But as much as Lyrlian is a little more obnoxious in style to me, I would watch the EU Daily 10x more often than the NA Daily just on the grounds of the casting for NA slowly sliding to the "fart jokes for laughs" style.
Pokebunny though. Pokebunny is a fantastic caster and I was glad when he joined up. I just worry about the path this may be going down if this is the norm.
As SC2 is pretty much the driving force of ESports currently, behavior such as this really just cannot be accepted. I don't care if he was "trolling" or "joking" this is the kind of stuff that just shouldn't be around if the ESports scene wants to be taken seriously by any means. This is the kind of stuff that will scare sponsors away because it is blatantly polarizing and just limits the availability of their product to be advertised.
Sorry Playhem this half-assed apology that pretty much blames the community for "trolling" the casters is just asinine. Time for ESports companies to grow up and realize that if they are to be taken as serious entities they cannot allow their employees to act like hide-behind-the-computer "trolls." This is not the kind of thing that will further your product and I don't think Katu realizes that by acting in such a way he effects the SC2 community as a whole.
On February 28 2012 16:30 PlayhemTV wrote: I want to stress again, while what Katu said was disrespectful and unprofessional, and he handled the situation very poorly, he did not actually think Dragon was cheating, or sincerely mean the other remarks he was making, they were all directed at angering the people flaming him in chat.
I'll post what posted I on reddit in response to your comment.
Did you watch the VOD? His initial accusations were spurred from his own "analytical" casting, not in response to chat. You may argue his further grave digging was solely in response to chat, however his initial remarks were not. It was his initial ignorant remarks that got people riled up, and it was his continual defense of those remarks that got people even more upset. What Katu said, in a live public broadcast was pure slander, whether he was joking or not is irrelevant. If these same type of slanderous comments were made during a mainstream sporting even the caster who made the remarks would be fired, and possibly face legal backlash from the person he was slandering. A caster making a joke about someone cheating in SC2 is like a commentator for baseball making a joke during a live broadcast about a player using steroids. He made accusations and stated them as fact, he should be removed from your casting roster.
On February 28 2012 16:30 PlayhemTV wrote: I want to stress again, while what Katu said was disrespectful and unprofessional, and he handled the situation very poorly, he did not actually think Dragon was cheating, or sincerely mean the other remarks he was making, they were all directed at angering the people flaming him in chat.
I'll post what posted I on reddit in response to your comment.
Did you watch the VOD? His initial accusations were spurred from his own "analytical" casting, not in response to chat. You may argue his further grave digging was solely in response to chat, however his initial remarks were not. It was his initial ignorant remarks that got people riled up, and it was his continual defense of those remarks that got people even more upset. What Katu said, in a live public broadcast was pure slander, whether he was joking or not is irrelevant. If these same type of slanderous comments were made during a mainstream sporting even the caster who made the remarks would be fired, and possibly face legal backlash from the person he was slandering. A caster making a joke about someone cheating in SC2 is like a commentator for baseball making a joke during a live broadcast about a player using steroids. He made accusations and stated them as fact, he should be removed from your casting roster.
Please understand I'm not defending Katu's position, I only want to make sure that the question of Dragon cheating stays out of this discussions.
Katu did not think he was cheating and the comments were baseless, we have no reason to believe he was cheating whether the remarks were inflammatory or not.
On February 28 2012 17:08 godulous wrote: Please understand I'm not defending Katu's position, I only want to make sure that the question of Dragon cheating stays out of this discussions.
Katu did not think he was cheating and the comments were baseless, we have no reason to believe he was cheating whether the remarks were inflammatory or not.
I am not talking about whether Dragon was cheating or not, so I am unsure why you even brought that up. I was trying to show you that it was not the chat that caused him to make the accusation like you claim.
Yeah, look I just want to say that I watch the Playhem regularly and I have become accustomed to Katu's humor. But he was completely out of line with his comments. He continually said, "I'm not even going to say or imply that he's stream cheated" after he'd implied it 10 times. To even say that Dragon was cheating because he lifted a factory and didn't lift his barracks could in any way at all mean that he was cheating. He seemed completely and totally serious. I don't hold it against Playhem, Bonk or any of the other casters, but I can assure you that I will NOT be watching the Playhem when Katu is casting unless he actually gives a sincere apology (his apology on stream was the most half hearted / false apology ever and he also starts going off on other Playhem employee that "weren't backing him up") . I agree that people need to let it go in the sense that they do not need to blame it on Playhem but Playhem needs to actually do something about this situation and not let it go. I don't think that Playhem needs to keep apologizing for Katu. As a community though, I think that we would like to know that there was some sort of consequence for Katu's actions (suspension possibly but not Katu being fired) because I don't care if he "didn't actually believe that Dragon was cheating" because it doesn't matter if he actually thought that..because he can say he didn't believe it all he wants but that doesn't change anything about what he said.
On February 28 2012 16:50 MrCash wrote: In the past playhem casters have had a history of being rude not only to the players, but viewers as well. Recently I've felt it has fallen off significantly, however today's events were a significant drop off in that respect. Casting should be treated as a job, not a pedestal to push their personal beliefs. You don't see Artosis complaining on how awful marauders are on GSL, despite his rather open opinion of this in youtube videos and Q&As. My point is it doesn't matter what Katu believed Dragon did, it matters if what he did was professional and acceptable way to behave as a caster.
It seems pretty clear that it was not. I think Katu has done enough work to be given some slack, but a public apology to Dragon and the community, along with a promise to improve in the future, would be appropriate. This is VERY negative PR towards Dragon, who is currently looking for a team. This definitely is not helping him, or anyone else for that matter, in any way.
One thing I'd like to add, that I feel that others can sympathize with, is that I am not really a Dragon fan. I personally don't like his style, I've watched his stream and I think he can be very funny and entertaining streamer, but not something that appeals to me. He does entertain many people and as any other hard working player, I still hope that he can be successful. Just being objective and fair, I can't imagine any player tolerating being casted in this manner. No one wants to be treated like this or have others treated in this manner, especially in such a public fashion.
On February 28 2012 17:13 mistaspoon wrote: I don't think that Playhem needs to keep apologizing for Katu. As a community though, I think that we would like to know that there was some sort of consequence for Katu's actions (suspension possibly but not Katu being fired).
We discussed it internally along with the other casters present and I think Katu recognized that he went too far, whether or not he wishes to make a statement on his own behalf is up to him. At the moment it's uncertain how this will affect his long term role as a caster for us but I'll leave an update when things have been settled.
Larrykins is right. The chat did not start what was going on, Katu did. Katu's extremely biased casting favoring his zerg teammate started everything. The chat, which hundreds of Dragon's fans just switched to, reacted to his biased commentary saying things like: "what's with the dragon hate?", "screw this caster", "why do they hate dragon?". Katu then took it way beyond the line of what is acceptable.
On February 28 2012 17:13 mistaspoon wrote: I don't think that Playhem needs to keep apologizing for Katu. As a community though, I think that we would like to know that there was some sort of consequence for Katu's actions (suspension possibly but not Katu being fired).
We discussed it internally along with the other casters present and I think Katu recognized that he went too far, whether or not he wishes to make a statement on his own behalf is up to him. At the moment it's uncertain how this will affect his long term role as a caster for us but I'll leave an update when things have been settled.
Thank you for this information Godulous. It should have been stated before, in the press release, so that we could have known from the start that at the very least the role he plays is up for discussion after the incident.
If Katu has anything to do with a Playhem stream again i'll stop participating in tourneys as well as stop watching the stream. Simple as that. He has no business being a caster.
On February 28 2012 17:14 MrCash wrote: One thing I'd like to add, that I feel that others can sympathize with, is that I am not really a Dragon fan. I personally don't like his style, I've watched his stream and I think he can be very funny and entertaining streamer, but not something that appeals to me. He does entertain many people and as any other hard working player, I still hope that he can be successful. Just being objective and fair, I can't imagine any player tolerating being casted in this manner. No one wants to be treated like this or have others treated in this manner, especially in such a public fashion.
I agree with you, and want to also note that Katu personally went and apologized to Dragon after the cast with the help of a translator. Hopefully Dragon will understand and there wont be any hard feelings between us as we love having him participate in the tournament and have had him on for a show match as well.
On February 28 2012 16:38 ColtSeavers wrote: I'm sure you guys would like that to be true. I'm a level headed 40 year old with a background in law. Broadcasting firm statements that he's a stream cheat is disgraceful and he has a good case against your caster, and by extension your organisation. If I was Dragon, I would not take this abhorrent behavior laying down. His reputation is everything to him right now and incidents as serious as this - in your tournement Finals for goodness sakes, can't be brushed off with a casual 'he was only joking/trolling guys' - it certainly didn't sound that way as I viewed the stream. I'm no Dragon fanboy - but I recognise libel and slander when I happen upon it.
I don't think there is any recourse for him legally. He would never be able to prove damages, as they would be minor if any. Yes the caster is an idiot, but I don't think it should be blown out of proportion.
On February 28 2012 17:26 Noktix wrote: If Katu has anything to do with a Playhem stream again i'll stop participating in tourneys as well as stop watching the stream. Simple as that. He has no business being a caster.
I'm not suggesting he issues proceedings. Just pointing out that he has every right to. I must confess, my expertise is in European Law, not US. However, I have litigated in the states many times (with the help of US legal teams) and in my experience, Punitive Damages (ie Payment to the affected party disproportionate to any real financial losses) for matters such as Slander or Bad Faith are commonplace. In the EU punitive damages are much less significant and rarely tolerated - not so in the US. Alot would turn on the terms and conditions (whether implied or specific) for competing in a Playhem tournement - and I have no idea what they entail.
I don't think this matter warrants legal proceedings by any means - but was just hypothesizing.
On February 28 2012 17:26 Noktix wrote: If Katu has anything to do with a Playhem stream again i'll stop participating in tourneys as well as stop watching the stream. Simple as that. He has no business being a caster.
On February 28 2012 17:43 TheBrofessor wrote: This might be the grossest community overreaction i've seen in a long time.
I don't know, how would you feel if someone at your job went to your boss or customers or someone who might hire you in the future and stated something along the lines of "I'm not saying that TheBrofessor is bad at his job, but look at how awful TheBrofessor's results are and have you heard what TheBrofessor did a few year ago and how bad TheBrofessor's looks, but I'm not saying or implying anything". This is Dragon's career right now, I feel this is rather serious. I don't know if the degree of reaction is completely appropriate, but after listening to the cast I most definitely can't say it's not justified.
This does not hurt Dragon or his career in any form at all.
The caster made a dumb comment, that's it. It was a single sentence in one of the hundreds of playhem dailies that have come and gone. The caster acknowledged it was a bad idea, and now people are calling for his head on a pike and boycotting playhem. The only way people are even going to remember that this even happened a week from now is because of all this ridiculous nonsense.
Yeah I'm not watching any tournament this guy is a part of anymore. You should never be able to be that big of a dick and get away with it. (watched the VOD)
On February 28 2012 18:05 TheBrofessor wrote: This does not hurt Dragon or his career in any form at all.
The caster made a dumb comment, that's it. It was a single sentence in one of the hundreds of playhem dailies that have come and gone. The caster acknowledged it was a bad idea, and now people are calling for his head on a pike and boycotting playhem. The only way people are even going to remember that this even happened a week from now is because of all this ridiculous nonsense.
Pretty juvenile way to look at this dude. If you want SC2 to be taken seriously in any sort of way as an ESport, then you understand the ramifications of the incident today. Katu made a stupid mistake, Playhem at least should publicly consider action against him for it. This negatively affects Playhem quite a bit, as is VERY apparent by the community reaction. Not a dumb reaction at all, in fact this is a very mature subject to take offense to as it is about professionalism on the job and not stupid probe rush drama.
Not giving playham any business anymore until a more appropriate apology is given. That apology given 3 pages back was the most pathetic explanation ever; it basically blamed the viewers for over reacting to the trolling by the caster (he was not trolling). It is OBVIOUS Katu was not joking. Anyone listened to the VOD can tell that. Katu was damaging someone's professional career and he shall be deem responsible for his wrong doings. What's the role of a CASTer? It's to CAST, not bash players joking or not.
Not watching playham stream anymore. ADBLOCK all playham ads and I recommend everyone to do that until Katu is punished and Playham gives a real apology.
Definitely not a Katu fan after this :\ My opinion of him was already treading on thin ice after a giant gay-bashing filled rant a couple months back. Wish casters would show more respect.
I will not watch anything this immature brat casts ever again. What kind of excuse is it anyway? "He said it but he didn't mean it"? Sorry, but you're doing the damage control completely wrong here.
On February 28 2012 18:05 TheBrofessor wrote: This does not hurt Dragon or his career in any form at all.
The caster made a dumb comment, that's it. It was a single sentence in one of the hundreds of playhem dailies that have come and gone. The caster acknowledged it was a bad idea, and now people are calling for his head on a pike and boycotting playhem. The only way people are even going to remember that this even happened a week from now is because of all this ridiculous nonsense.
Pretty juvenile way to look at this dude. If you want SC2 to be taken seriously in any sort of way as an ESport, then you understand the ramifications of the incident today. Katu made a stupid mistake, Playhem at least should publicly consider action against him for it. This negatively affects Playhem quite a bit, as is VERY apparent by the community reaction. Not a dumb reaction at all, in fact this is a very mature subject to take offense to as it is about professionalism on the job and not stupid probe rush drama.
All this "this is important if we want to be taken seriously" isn't true at all, there's plenty of immature shit, as well as actual cheating, that goes on in "real" sports. If i recall correctly, this Katu guy has done a countless number of casts for go4sc2 and playhem, and now he and playhem are being crucified for what is, again, just a dumb comment.
If, Djwheat or someone says while casting a game on the main stage at MLG "Oh he just switched tech i think he's looking at his opponents monitor", then yes, that should be taken very seriously with the scale and level its on, just like in other professional sports, a professional baseball team throwing a game for example. If a caster for a daily tournament with a couple hundred viewers makes a mistake, it does not need to be blown so horribly out of proportion that it leads to the boycotting of a company. Its the equivalent to minor league baseball player admitting to using steroids. The guy made a mistake. A single mistake. Ease the fuck up on him.
On February 28 2012 18:29 phar wrote: Definitely not a Katu fan after this :\ My opinion of him was already treading on thin ice after a giant gay-bashing filled rant a couple months back. Wish casters would show more respect.
@TheBrofessor, this was more than "A single mistake." Katu has been alienating the viewers and players for quite a while. This guy is doing a JOB. His job entails that he act professionally, which he has not done on multiple occasions. There is more to this than just some guy being an idiot on stream, if he wants to do that, fine, he should do that on HIS stream not one that he is paid to represent a company on.
weak ass excuse from PlayhemTV. it doesn't matter if Katu on a personal level thinks Dragon cheats or not. He as the caster should not utter the words, and actions needs to be taken. And it's not just that, he threw out this ridicoulus story about why dragon is not participating on events and why he is not with slayers anymore. furthermore continuing to respond to the chat saying something in the lines of: "if you dont belive me, continue living in your fantasy world, but what im saying is the truth" and it's so far from the truth. i feel i have so much to say, but my english is not steady enough to put my thoughts into words. i just feel really bad for dragon, and if Playhem tries to sweep this under the carpet by saying: "what he said was wrong and we understand that now, please lets all move on" its an outrage.
On February 28 2012 16:30 PlayhemTV wrote: Hi everyone (and reddit),
I want to clear up a few things about what happened tonight, and explain the full details to those who may have missed some of it and only joined part way through.
Before I start, please be aware that I do not agree with the way Katu acted and we agree that he handled the situation badly, however I want to stress more than anything that Katu did not at any point actually believe Dragon was cheating. I want everyone to know this above all else because Dragon should not be dragged into this, he was not stream cheating and did nothing wrong.
What happened: Dragon ended up on our stream as he has many times in the past, his viewers often multi-view our stream with his and so we got a large influx of viewers entering chat. Dragon's fans began criticizing Katu and his co-caster heavily during the cast and this later escalated into insults and trolling to which Katu responded by "trolling" them back. The members in chat didn't take well to this and began taking what he was saying to heart and further insulting Katu, unfortunately Katu did not step away from the situation but got caught up trying to incite the viewers with intentionally ridiculous claims (eventually hinting at him stream cheating as a cause for what we already knew was just bad lag on Dragon's part) from which point chat digressed to name calling, death threats, and pitch forks; chat became entirely unmanageable and things went down hill fast.
I want to stress again, while what Katu said was disrespectful and unprofessional, and he handled the situation very poorly, he did not actually think Dragon was cheating, or sincerely mean the other remarks he was making, they were all directed at angering the people flaming him in chat.
It's extremely unfortunate that the games we saw tonight were tarnished with childish arguments and poor behavior on our part, but what's done is done and we can't undo what transpired. Normally, respect for the players is our highest rule and one of the few we enforce with time-outs in chat, and having an incident like this occur was very out of character for how our casts normally transpire. If you were a first time viewer tonight I cannot blame you if you don't return to our stream, however I want to ask that everyone can try to put this behind us and give us a chance to improve our mistakes in the future.
From everyone that works on the production behind the PlayhemTV stream to the viewers, followers, fans, and players in our tournaments: we hope you'll accept our sincerest apologies and know that we recognize the mistakes that we made and don't intend to let them happen again.
It's a shame you're defending your caster here. Just get rid of him, because a lot of us just don't wanna hear about him ever again, tbh
watching the stream, i feel that Katu did not show a lot of professionalism within the games. Even though he may be troll in nature, When you cast games, there is an ounce of being professional. Although there is a disparity between say MLG and Playhem, i would say that in order for Playhem to really get on the same level they must have casters adhere to a standard that MLG, GSL, and other major tournaments has set. Katu is a troll, and that is fine but we can see in higher tier games, they do not joke about the players map hacking or doing some illegal behavior. Hopefully Playhem does something that can show Katu that he did in fact show a terrible way to cast, and he understands why all of us are so mad at what he has done.
On February 28 2012 16:30 PlayhemTV wrote: Hi everyone (and reddit),
I want to clear up a few things about what happened tonight, and explain the full details to those who may have missed some of it and only joined part way through.
Before I start, please be aware that I do not agree with the way Katu acted and we agree that he handled the situation badly, however I want to stress more than anything that Katu did not at any point actually believe Dragon was cheating. I want everyone to know this above all else because Dragon should not be dragged into this, he was not stream cheating and did nothing wrong.
What happened: Dragon ended up on our stream as he has many times in the past, his viewers often multi-view our stream with his and so we got a large influx of viewers entering chat. Dragon's fans began criticizing Katu and his co-caster heavily during the cast and this later escalated into insults and trolling to which Katu responded by "trolling" them back. The members in chat didn't take well to this and began taking what he was saying to heart and further insulting Katu, unfortunately Katu did not step away from the situation but got caught up trying to incite the viewers with intentionally ridiculous claims (eventually hinting at him stream cheating as a cause for what we already knew was just bad lag on Dragon's part) from which point chat digressed to name calling, death threats, and pitch forks; chat became entirely unmanageable and things went down hill fast.
I want to stress again, while what Katu said was disrespectful and unprofessional, and he handled the situation very poorly, he did not actually think Dragon was cheating, or sincerely mean the other remarks he was making, they were all directed at angering the people flaming him in chat.
It's extremely unfortunate that the games we saw tonight were tarnished with childish arguments and poor behavior on our part, but what's done is done and we can't undo what transpired. Normally, respect for the players is our highest rule and one of the few we enforce with time-outs in chat, and having an incident like this occur was very out of character for how our casts normally transpire. If you were a first time viewer tonight I cannot blame you if you don't return to our stream, however I want to ask that everyone can try to put this behind us and give us a chance to improve our mistakes in the future.
From everyone that works on the production behind the PlayhemTV stream to the viewers, followers, fans, and players in our tournaments: we hope you'll accept our sincerest apologies and know that we recognize the mistakes that we made and don't intend to let them happen again.
It's a shame you're defending your caster here. Just get rid of him, because a lot of us just don't wanna hear about him ever again, tbh
Okay guys, he messed up, and I've been very critical of the caster's statements in this thread, but don't overreact. If you got fired from your job or instantly failed a class because you were late once, it certainly would not be fair. I agree that this topic shouldn't be completely overlooked and ignored, but this is Katu's job as well and he clearly wants to do well, but made a mistake. I try to think of this from a different perspective too, like what happened to Coca. He didn't realize how serious his actions were during a tournament (throwing a match to a friend), where Coca couldn't gain anything from winning, but his friend would have a chance at a Code A seed. Coca was removed from Code S and temporarily left the team house. He was not fired, but he was punished. Coca didn't realize how serious it was what he was doing, but accepted a very steep punishment once understanding of the situation. He was not let go with a slap on the wrist either.
On February 28 2012 16:30 PlayhemTV wrote: Hi everyone (and reddit),
I want to clear up a few things about what happened tonight, and explain the full details to those who may have missed some of it and only joined part way through.
Before I start, please be aware that I do not agree with the way Katu acted and we agree that he handled the situation badly, however I want to stress more than anything that Katu did not at any point actually believe Dragon was cheating. I want everyone to know this above all else because Dragon should not be dragged into this, he was not stream cheating and did nothing wrong.
What happened: Dragon ended up on our stream as he has many times in the past, his viewers often multi-view our stream with his and so we got a large influx of viewers entering chat. Dragon's fans began criticizing Katu and his co-caster heavily during the cast and this later escalated into insults and trolling to which Katu responded by "trolling" them back. The members in chat didn't take well to this and began taking what he was saying to heart and further insulting Katu, unfortunately Katu did not step away from the situation but got caught up trying to incite the viewers with intentionally ridiculous claims (eventually hinting at him stream cheating as a cause for what we already knew was just bad lag on Dragon's part) from which point chat digressed to name calling, death threats, and pitch forks; chat became entirely unmanageable and things went down hill fast.
I want to stress again, while what Katu said was disrespectful and unprofessional, and he handled the situation very poorly, he did not actually think Dragon was cheating, or sincerely mean the other remarks he was making, they were all directed at angering the people flaming him in chat.
It's extremely unfortunate that the games we saw tonight were tarnished with childish arguments and poor behavior on our part, but what's done is done and we can't undo what transpired. Normally, respect for the players is our highest rule and one of the few we enforce with time-outs in chat, and having an incident like this occur was very out of character for how our casts normally transpire. If you were a first time viewer tonight I cannot blame you if you don't return to our stream, however I want to ask that everyone can try to put this behind us and give us a chance to improve our mistakes in the future.
From everyone that works on the production behind the PlayhemTV stream to the viewers, followers, fans, and players in our tournaments: we hope you'll accept our sincerest apologies and know that we recognize the mistakes that we made and don't intend to let them happen again.
So because the chat is maybe being negative about something with his cast, Katu goes apeshit and insults the player? Nobody thought he was trolling... seriously.
His co-caster was trying to get him to stop and distanced himself from what was going on.
There is a screenshot of the chat moderators saying they have been trying multiple times to stop him, but he that he wouldn't stop.
Sorry guys, the guy needs to sit in his mothers basement and be excluded from future casts, this just doesn't cut it!
On February 28 2012 19:31 MrCash wrote: Okay guys, he messed up, and I've been very critical of the caster's statements in this thread, but don't overreact. If you got fired from your job or instantly failed a class because you were late once, it certainly would not be fair. I agree that this topic shouldn't be completely overlooked and ignored, but this is Katu's job as well and he clearly wants to do well, but made a mistake. I try to think of this from a different perspective too, like what happened to Coca. He didn't realize how serious his actions were during a tournament (throwing a match to a friend), where Coca couldn't gain anything from winning, but his friend would have a chance at a Code A seed. Coca was removed from Code S and temporarily left the team house. He was not fired, but he was punished. Coca didn't realize how serious it was what he was doing, but accepted a very steep punishment once understanding of the situation. He was not let go with a slap on the wrist either.
Personally I think it's a massive insult to the intelligence to the SC2 community for playhem to try and brush off Katu's blatant disrespect and uninformed bias as trolling. It was very very obvious to anybody that it wasn't trolling. It was one of those obvious 'oh shit' moments where you realize you're a fucking idiot and try to brush it off, and that makes it even worse.
This clueless idiot needs to own up to it and maybe, just maybe then will the PR damage control be able to work, because right now I'm actively talking between a group of friends that watch have been regularly watching the playhem streams and we're gone until some maturity, ownership or punishment is dealt.
The cheating alagations are stupid comments made by katu. The thing is he got the chronology (sorry my speeling is terrible) completely wrong and thats the part i find most hurtfull. He claimed that the reason the Dragon left slayers was because he was found cheating and was banned from tournaments... Imagine if your a recruiter for a team (i dont know how this process works) and your watching playhem and you dont really know about dragon but you think hes playing well and then you hear that... your not going to go anywhere near him. The truth is Dragon left slayers of his own accord due to work commitments. The cheating alagations were made years ago before slayers even picked him up! so if they wernt a problem for slayers they shouldnt be a problem for anybody else. It enrages me to think that some ignorant retard can just spout completely wrong information to 3000 people and it be covered up as nothing.
Transcription of the dialog from 4:05:30 to 4:07:30 : Katu: Apparently Dragon is lagging like crazy and that's because he's lagging like crazy that he lost, not because he went for 3 command centers versus a roach all-in. Bonk: No ... no that's ... Katu: And you know what? Like, I'm not accusing him of stream cheating but I just want to put this out there all right, if he's just randomly starting to lag now, think about reasons why he'd start lagging. Just saying, just saying. I'm not even implying that all right, I don't want to say that he's stream cheating cause he might not be, but Dragon is known for this kind of stuff and I'm just saying, why would he lag all of a sudden, just saying. Bonk: You are making them so mad Katu: Dude, I hope they get mad, eat it. If they can't handle the truth then they can keep living in their fantasy world. [...] [Chat starts Raging] Bonk: Oh my god. Katu: This is awesome. Bonk: How am I getting dragged in your ... Katu: Dude, do these people know why Dragon doesn't go to a ? That's because the guy's banned cause he ch... Ok, it was never released what happened, but essentially this is the gist all right guys Bonk: Ohhh... wait. Katu: So something happened, we don't know what it is cause no one released what it was that happened, but he's now not allowed to play any more and that's why he's not on Slayers, all right. Bonk: I'd just like to separate my name from your name. Katu: No, fine, I don't care Bonk get away I don't care, I'm just stating the truth. [Chat rages some more] Katu: It's pretty good man, I'm pretty proud of myself I gotta say.
I'm Ryan, one of the founders of Playhem. I'm sorry if the following is sloppy and disorganized -- It's after 3am and was just woken up to my phone pinging with all of the complaint emails we've received due to this incident. However, I think its imperative that I address this immediately.
First and foremost, I must express my sincerest apologies to Dragon, his fans, and our stream viewers that were subject to the distaste apparent in our broadcast tonight. There are no excuses for such behavior, intentions included. However, being a strong believer in the adage, "actions speak louder than words," I'd like to extend an offer to Dragon, and indirectly to his fans, in an attempt to make amends. If his schedule permits, it would be our pleasure to sponsor Dragon at IPL 4 in Vegas -- player pass, hotel, and flight included. We would love for him to represent Playhem at the event, but understand if his preference is otherwise. The offer stands regardless. I can't read or write Korean, so if someone who does would be kind enough to help me contact and communicate with him, please email me at rdesanto@playhem.com.
Over the past year we have found our home in the Starcraft 2 community, for which we are proud and grateful. Without the daily support our players and fans, we would cease to exist. I will admit, this situation was handled improperly, and my apology probably too late. And so, I understand if you ignore my appeal, but please do not let the actions of an individual be representative of Playhem as a whole. All-in-all there are nearly 30 of us who wake up every morning and work into the hours of night with the singular goal of making Playhem something special. If everyone can take a step back from what transpired tonight, I think our true intentions are clear. We are committed to providing quality entertainment to the e-sports community, players of all skills and spectators alike. We <3 e-sports and all those involved, wanting nothing more than to continue showing our support in any way we can.
That said, I do not know what the fair punishment is, yet. I will ask, if a reformed player previously fallen from grace deserves redemption, should a caster not as well? I suppose Katu holds the answer to this question, but ultimately you, the community, will be the judge.
Unfortunately, my role in Playhem distances me from our day to day operations and an active involvement in the e-sports community. Between leading a team of 20 developers, heading up business development, fundraising, and everything else that comes with running a start-up, I'm left with little time to engage in a passion that was the catalyst for founding this company. What's even more unfortunate, is that an event of this nature is what brings me back. I'm truly sorry that any of this happened.
On February 28 2012 20:35 RyanDeSanto wrote: Hi everyone,
I'm Ryan, one of the founders of Playhem. I'm sorry if the following is sloppy and disorganized -- It's after 3am and was just woken up to my phone pinging with all of the complaint emails we've received due to this incident. However, I think its imperative that I address this immediately.
First and foremost, I must express my sincerest apologies to Dragon, his fans, and our stream viewers that were subject to the distaste apparent in our broadcast tonight. There are no excuses for such behavior, intentions included. However, being a strong believer in the adage, "actions speak louder than words," I'd like to extend an offer to Dragon, and indirectly to his fans, in an attempt to make amends. If his schedule permits, it would be our pleasure to sponsor Dragon at IPL 4 in Vegas -- player pass, hotel, and flight included. We would love for him to represent Playhem at the event, but understand if his preference is otherwise. The offer stands regardless. I can't read or write Korean, so if someone who does would be kind enough to help me contact and communicate with him, please email me at rdesanto@playhem.com.
Over the past year we have found our home in the Starcraft 2 community, for which we are proud and grateful. Without the daily support our players and fans, we would cease to exist. I will admit, this situation was handled improperly, and my apology probably too late. And so, I understand if you ignore my appeal, but please do not let the actions of an individual be representative of Playhem as a whole. All-in-all there are nearly 30 of us who wake up every morning and work into the hours of night with the singular goal of making Playhem something special. If everyone can take a step back from what transpired tonight, I think our true intentions are clear. We are committed to providing quality entertainment to the e-sports community, players of all skills and spectators alike. We <3 e-sports and all those involved, wanting nothing more than to continue showing our support in any way we can.
That said, I do not know what the fair punishment is, yet. I will ask, if a reformed player previously fallen from grace deserves redemption, should a caster not as well? I suppose Katu holds the answer to this question, but ultimately you, the community, will be the judge.
Unfortunately, my role in Playhem distances me from our day to day operations and an active involvement in the e-sports community. Between leading a team of 20 developers, heading up business development, fundraising, and everything else that comes with running a start-up, I'm left with little time to engage in a passion that was the catalyst for founding this company. What's even more unfortunate, is that an event of this nature is what brings me back. I'm truly sorry that any of this happened.
This part specifically is fucking amazing. I'm not even really a Dragon fan, Ive never watched his stream, but sending him to IPL4 would be pretty cool of you guys and I'm sure he'll appreciate the gesture even if he can't go. Thank you for taking your time to post (at 3am no less).
As for Katu, I believe its more your decision how you want to run a business. Having Katu cast and say those thing reflects very poorly on Playhem as a business, and people will hold it against you regardless of if it was just a one time mistake or not. Personally I would like to see Katu removed from any future casts, as even prior to this I was not a fan of his attitude, however I am just one person and I'm not part of your orginization. I hope that you guys at Playhem can sort things out, you're doing an excellent job for the most part.
On February 28 2012 20:35 RyanDeSanto wrote: Hi everyone,
I'm Ryan, one of the founders of Playhem. I'm sorry if the following is sloppy and disorganized -- It's after 3am and was just woken up to my phone pinging with all of the complaint emails we've received due to this incident. However, I think its imperative that I address this immediately.
First and foremost, I must express my sincerest apologies to Dragon, his fans, and our stream viewers that were subject to the distaste apparent in our broadcast tonight. There are no excuses for such behavior, intentions included. However, being a strong believer in the adage, "actions speak louder than words," I'd like to extend an offer to Dragon, and indirectly to his fans, in an attempt to make amends. If his schedule permits, it would be our pleasure to sponsor Dragon at IPL 4 in Vegas -- player pass, hotel, and flight included. We would love for him to represent Playhem at the event, but understand if his preference is otherwise. The offer stands regardless. I can't read or write Korean, so if someone who does would be kind enough to help me contact and communicate with him, please email me at rdesanto@playhem.com.
Over the past year we have found our home in the Starcraft 2 community, for which we are proud and grateful. Without the daily support our players and fans, we would cease to exist. I will admit, this situation was handled improperly, and my apology probably too late. And so, I understand if you ignore my appeal, but please do not let the actions of an individual be representative of Playhem as a whole. All-in-all there are nearly 30 of us who wake up every morning and work into the hours of night with the singular goal of making Playhem something special. If everyone can take a step back from what transpired tonight, I think our true intentions are clear. We are committed to providing quality entertainment to the e-sports community, players of all skills and spectators alike. We <3 e-sports and all those involved, wanting nothing more than to continue showing our support in any way we can.
That said, I do not know what the fair punishment is, yet. I will ask, if a reformed player previously fallen from grace deserves redemption, should a caster not as well? I suppose Katu holds the answer to this question, but ultimately you, the community, will be the judge.
Unfortunately, my role in Playhem distances me from our day to day operations and an active involvement in the e-sports community. Between leading a team of 20 developers, heading up business development, fundraising, and everything else that comes with running a start-up, I'm left with little time to engage in a passion that was the catalyst for founding this company. What's even more unfortunate, is that an event of this nature is what brings me back. I'm truly sorry that any of this happened.
Finally a sensible apology and one that has won at least one viewer back. The truth is though I have been avoiding playhem for over a month now precisely because of Katu. I guess it's a personal thing but I find his casting style immature and hard to stomach. Now with this fiasco, I doubt I will ever watch playhem unless he is removed. I'm not talking about morals or any of that stuff but simply about the impracticality of having Katu on as a caster. Maybe other people disagree and actually enjoy his casting but I find that difficult to believe.
I'm Ryan, one of the founders of Playhem. I'm sorry if the following is sloppy and disorganized -- It's after 3am and was just woken up to my phone pinging with all of the complaint emails we've received due to this incident. However, I think its imperative that I address this immediately.
First and foremost, I must express my sincerest apologies to Dragon, his fans, and our stream viewers that were subject to the distaste apparent in our broadcast tonight. There are no excuses for such behavior, intentions included. However, being a strong believer in the adage, "actions speak louder than words," I'd like to extend an offer to Dragon, and indirectly to his fans, in an attempt to make amends. If his schedule permits, it would be our pleasure to sponsor Dragon at IPL 4 in Vegas -- player pass, hotel, and flight included. We would love for him to represent Playhem at the event, but understand if his preference is otherwise. The offer stands regardless. I can't read or write Korean, so if someone who does would be kind enough to help me contact and communicate with him, please email me at rdesanto@playhem.com.
Over the past year we have found our home in the Starcraft 2 community, for which we are proud and grateful. Without the daily support our players and fans, we would cease to exist. I will admit, this situation was handled improperly, and my apology probably too late. And so, I understand if you ignore my appeal, but please do not let the actions of an individual be representative of Playhem as a whole. All-in-all there are nearly 30 of us who wake up every morning and work into the hours of night with the singular goal of making Playhem something special. If everyone can take a step back from what transpired tonight, I think our true intentions are clear. We are committed to providing quality entertainment to the e-sports community, players of all skills and spectators alike. We <3 e-sports and all those involved, wanting nothing more than to continue showing our support in any way we can.
That said, I do not know what the fair punishment is, yet. I will ask, if a reformed player previously fallen from grace deserves redemption, should a caster not as well? I suppose Katu holds the answer to this question, but ultimately you, the community, will be the judge.
Unfortunately, my role in Playhem distances me from our day to day operations and an active involvement in the e-sports community. Between leading a team of 20 developers, heading up business development, fundraising, and everything else that comes with running a start-up, I'm left with little time to engage in a passion that was the catalyst for founding this company. What's even more unfortunate, is that an event of this nature is what brings me back. I'm truly sorry that any of this happened.
The bolded part depends on if Katu actually apologizes, I still haven't seen one yet. Link me if I'm wrong please
This action is both extremely commendable and admirable. It shows Playhem's dedication to eSports and that they truly are doing their best to be a team. When one makes a mistake, everyone takes responsibility and vouches to correct it or make amends. Although I've seen some people come out and say to blame the caster and not the company, that seems like a simplistic way of management avoiding responsibility for their hiring decisions. Imagine if an employee in any business made a mistake due to lack of training and was fired or sued for it, rather than the company. I'm not saying that the blame is always on the business, but that everyone needs to take responsibility. In this instance, it could be argued that Katu was never formally warned of what is acceptable and not acceptable to be talked about. It could also be argued that it is rather common courtesy and common sense not to badmouth players. Either way, these arguments for placing blame are irrelevant when you are working as a team. They are however good to consider when attempting to improve for the future.
Playhem putting forth such a generous gesture, at least in my eyes, clears all ill slate. As long as Katu shows genuine remorse for his statements, no public punishment should be necessary. How he is treated internally at playhem however is completely up to the management.
On February 28 2012 16:30 PlayhemTV wrote: Hi everyone (and reddit),
I want to clear up a few things about what happened tonight, and explain the full details to those who may have missed some of it and only joined part way through.
Before I start, please be aware that I do not agree with the way Katu acted and we agree that he handled the situation badly, however I want to stress more than anything that Katu did not at any point actually believe Dragon was cheating. I want everyone to know this above all else because Dragon should not be dragged into this, he was not stream cheating and did nothing wrong.
What happened: Dragon ended up on our stream as he has many times in the past, his viewers often multi-view our stream with his and so we got a large influx of viewers entering chat. Dragon's fans began criticizing Katu and his co-caster heavily during the cast and this later escalated into insults and trolling to which Katu responded by "trolling" them back. The members in chat didn't take well to this and began taking what he was saying to heart and further insulting Katu, unfortunately Katu did not step away from the situation but got caught up trying to incite the viewers with intentionally ridiculous claims (eventually hinting at him stream cheating as a cause for what we already knew was just bad lag on Dragon's part) from which point chat digressed to name calling, death threats, and pitch forks; chat became entirely unmanageable and things went down hill fast.
I want to stress again, while what Katu said was disrespectful and unprofessional, and he handled the situation very poorly, he did not actually think Dragon was cheating, or sincerely mean the other remarks he was making, they were all directed at angering the people flaming him in chat.
It's extremely unfortunate that the games we saw tonight were tarnished with childish arguments and poor behavior on our part, but what's done is done and we can't undo what transpired. Normally, respect for the players is our highest rule and one of the few we enforce with time-outs in chat, and having an incident like this occur was very out of character for how our casts normally transpire. If you were a first time viewer tonight I cannot blame you if you don't return to our stream, however I want to ask that everyone can try to put this behind us and give us a chance to improve our mistakes in the future.
From everyone that works on the production behind the PlayhemTV stream to the viewers, followers, fans, and players in our tournaments: we hope you'll accept our sincerest apologies and know that we recognize the mistakes that we made and don't intend to let them happen again.
Are you serious? No way that this apology is accepted. Trolling or not, he was way out of line. This is who Katu is not just from this cast but from previous casts. You guys run a good event, but it is tarnished by him. Will not watch a Playhem stream until you realize that he is no good for you. :|
On February 28 2012 16:30 PlayhemTV wrote: Hi everyone (and reddit),
I want to clear up a few things about what happened tonight, and explain the full details to those who may have missed some of it and only joined part way through.
Before I start, please be aware that I do not agree with the way Katu acted and we agree that he handled the situation badly, however I want to stress more than anything that Katu did not at any point actually believe Dragon was cheating. I want everyone to know this above all else because Dragon should not be dragged into this, he was not stream cheating and did nothing wrong.
What happened: Dragon ended up on our stream as he has many times in the past, his viewers often multi-view our stream with his and so we got a large influx of viewers entering chat. Dragon's fans began criticizing Katu and his co-caster heavily during the cast and this later escalated into insults and trolling to which Katu responded by "trolling" them back. The members in chat didn't take well to this and began taking what he was saying to heart and further insulting Katu, unfortunately Katu did not step away from the situation but got caught up trying to incite the viewers with intentionally ridiculous claims (eventually hinting at him stream cheating as a cause for what we already knew was just bad lag on Dragon's part) from which point chat digressed to name calling, death threats, and pitch forks; chat became entirely unmanageable and things went down hill fast.
I want to stress again, while what Katu said was disrespectful and unprofessional, and he handled the situation very poorly, he did not actually think Dragon was cheating, or sincerely mean the other remarks he was making, they were all directed at angering the people flaming him in chat.
It's extremely unfortunate that the games we saw tonight were tarnished with childish arguments and poor behavior on our part, but what's done is done and we can't undo what transpired. Normally, respect for the players is our highest rule and one of the few we enforce with time-outs in chat, and having an incident like this occur was very out of character for how our casts normally transpire. If you were a first time viewer tonight I cannot blame you if you don't return to our stream, however I want to ask that everyone can try to put this behind us and give us a chance to improve our mistakes in the future.
From everyone that works on the production behind the PlayhemTV stream to the viewers, followers, fans, and players in our tournaments: we hope you'll accept our sincerest apologies and know that we recognize the mistakes that we made and don't intend to let them happen again.
Are you serious? No way that this apology is accepted. Trolling or not, he was way out of line. This is who Katu is not just from this cast but from previous casts. You guys run a good event, but it is tarnished by him. Will not watch a Playhem stream until you realize that he is no good for you. :|
Wait wait wait. Are you telling me if you go to a store and an employee swears at you, you would rather have that employee fired instead of receiving $1000? Theoretical example of course, but don't you think you are taking this a bit too personally? An employee made a mistake and the company is owing up to it BIG time. Considering this level of response they will without a doubt have an internal discussion about this and I highly doubt anything of this nature will occur again or it will have serious repercussions. A start-up business can't afford either bad PR or to be throwing money out the window every time someone screws up.
That's a solid and admirable position to take - you've addressed most of my concerns - but you still haven't addressed the dreadful, often homophobic, and now outright slanderous actions of one of your casters. Deal with Katu in a satisfactory manner and you'll more than likely be forgiven by all concerned. Katu's response is not needed. He does not belong in an organisation that apparently holds itself to high standards and respects the community it serves.
Katu doesn't deserve another chance, he's always had a disrespectul behavior and is an extremely biased caster that has little knowledge of the game. He's a disgrace to our community and should not be casting for a tournament as renowned as Playhem. This is just my opinion obviously Playhem will decide what they wanna do with him.
I've never heard Katu say something which has garnered this much hate before so I think this can be one of those stupid mistake scenarios. He casts KSL, EWM, and Playhem and this is the one time people pull out pitchforks.
Its still a really nice position to take with regards to making it up to Dragon so thats awesome. I totally would love to see Dragon try to win a major tourney he is a good player.
Well one thing's for sure, i'm never gonna watch PlayhemTV or any other stream as long as Katu is casting. I don't believe he was trolling at all. He was pointing out absolutely clueless and ridiculous statements, trying to make himself look like the big man over the viewers. What he did is probably his downfall in starcraft 2 casting and to be honest I don't care weather it is or not, never watching a stream with him again
But glad to see Playhem responding so well to this in a professional and responsible way. Props to them, shows how well they can lead with a situation like this and I am quite suprised in a good way in how well their dealing with this overall
On February 28 2012 20:35 RyanDeSanto wrote: Hi everyone,
I'm Ryan, one of the founders of Playhem. I'm sorry if the following is sloppy and disorganized -- It's after 3am and was just woken up to my phone pinging with all of the complaint emails we've received due to this incident. However, I think its imperative that I address this immediately.
First and foremost, I must express my sincerest apologies to Dragon, his fans, and our stream viewers that were subject to the distaste apparent in our broadcast tonight. There are no excuses for such behavior, intentions included. However, being a strong believer in the adage, "actions speak louder than words," I'd like to extend an offer to Dragon, and indirectly to his fans, in an attempt to make amends. If his schedule permits, it would be our pleasure to sponsor Dragon at IPL 4 in Vegas -- player pass, hotel, and flight included. We would love for him to represent Playhem at the event, but understand if his preference is otherwise. The offer stands regardless. I can't read or write Korean, so if someone who does would be kind enough to help me contact and communicate with him, please email me at rdesanto@playhem.com.
Over the past year we have found our home in the Starcraft 2 community, for which we are proud and grateful. Without the daily support our players and fans, we would cease to exist. I will admit, this situation was handled improperly, and my apology probably too late. And so, I understand if you ignore my appeal, but please do not let the actions of an individual be representative of Playhem as a whole. All-in-all there are nearly 30 of us who wake up every morning and work into the hours of night with the singular goal of making Playhem something special. If everyone can take a step back from what transpired tonight, I think our true intentions are clear. We are committed to providing quality entertainment to the e-sports community, players of all skills and spectators alike. We <3 e-sports and all those involved, wanting nothing more than to continue showing our support in any way we can.
That said, I do not know what the fair punishment is, yet. I will ask, if a reformed player previously fallen from grace deserves redemption, should a caster not as well? I suppose Katu holds the answer to this question, but ultimately you, the community, will be the judge.
Unfortunately, my role in Playhem distances me from our day to day operations and an active involvement in the e-sports community. Between leading a team of 20 developers, heading up business development, fundraising, and everything else that comes with running a start-up, I'm left with little time to engage in a passion that was the catalyst for founding this company. What's even more unfortunate, is that an event of this nature is what brings me back. I'm truly sorry that any of this happened.
Wow, best possible reaction. How to turn a shit incident that made you look bad into an opportunity to be awesome!
EDIT: regarding Katu's future in Playhem, I sure hope he won't ever cast a single game again, his attitude was really disgusting, and it's not like he was a great caster in the first place. He said he was "proud" of himself when people on the chat got mad at him. He's proud oh himself? Good for him, but if I was hiss boss I wouldn't be proud of him and I would straigt up kick him out
On February 28 2012 20:35 RyanDeSanto wrote: Hi everyone,
I'm Ryan, one of the founders of Playhem. I'm sorry if the following is sloppy and disorganized -- It's after 3am and was just woken up to my phone pinging with all of the complaint emails we've received due to this incident. However, I think its imperative that I address this immediately.
First and foremost, I must express my sincerest apologies to Dragon, his fans, and our stream viewers that were subject to the distaste apparent in our broadcast tonight. There are no excuses for such behavior, intentions included. However, being a strong believer in the adage, "actions speak louder than words," I'd like to extend an offer to Dragon, and indirectly to his fans, in an attempt to make amends. If his schedule permits, it would be our pleasure to sponsor Dragon at IPL 4 in Vegas -- player pass, hotel, and flight included. We would love for him to represent Playhem at the event, but understand if his preference is otherwise. The offer stands regardless. I can't read or write Korean, so if someone who does would be kind enough to help me contact and communicate with him, please email me at rdesanto@playhem.com.
Over the past year we have found our home in the Starcraft 2 community, for which we are proud and grateful. Without the daily support our players and fans, we would cease to exist. I will admit, this situation was handled improperly, and my apology probably too late. And so, I understand if you ignore my appeal, but please do not let the actions of an individual be representative of Playhem as a whole. All-in-all there are nearly 30 of us who wake up every morning and work into the hours of night with the singular goal of making Playhem something special. If everyone can take a step back from what transpired tonight, I think our true intentions are clear. We are committed to providing quality entertainment to the e-sports community, players of all skills and spectators alike. We <3 e-sports and all those involved, wanting nothing more than to continue showing our support in any way we can.
That said, I do not know what the fair punishment is, yet. I will ask, if a reformed player previously fallen from grace deserves redemption, should a caster not as well? I suppose Katu holds the answer to this question, but ultimately you, the community, will be the judge.
Unfortunately, my role in Playhem distances me from our day to day operations and an active involvement in the e-sports community. Between leading a team of 20 developers, heading up business development, fundraising, and everything else that comes with running a start-up, I'm left with little time to engage in a passion that was the catalyst for founding this company. What's even more unfortunate, is that an event of this nature is what brings me back. I'm truly sorry that any of this happened.
Wow, best possible reaction. How to turn a shit incident that made you look bad into an opportunity to be awesome!
Actually, I never watch playhem's because of all the other stuff on. But his response made me really want to watch, just couse he's a Pro with a capital P (stolen from another thread)
People rae very, very good at wielding pitchforks it seems. Kudos to playhem for being on the ball with their PR, but I find it frankly incredible how fast people are at jumping on the drama-bandwagon.
So there's no confusion, my comment about retribution was not meant to indicate favor in either direction. It was more a theoretical proposition that probably did not belong in my post to begin with. That said, its probably best not to leave this open ended. I can assure everyone that Katu will no longer be a representative of Playhem, and seemingly shouldn't have been for some time.
i can't also help but feel that this is very much like the witchhunt that took place concerning Russel Brand and Jonathan Ross at the BBC. A few people complaine about something they said on the radio and after a week 30k complaints rolled in to the BBC of people that had nothing to do with the incident and to whom this is of no concern. I'm going to venture a guess that about 5% of the people in this thread actually are in any way offended by any of this and the remaining 95% love riding the bandwagon.
Obviously what he did was wrong, but the hatred is quite something else...
On February 28 2012 20:35 RyanDeSanto wrote: Hi everyone,
I'm Ryan, one of the founders of Playhem. I'm sorry if the following is sloppy and disorganized -- It's after 3am and was just woken up to my phone pinging with all of the complaint emails we've received due to this incident. However, I think its imperative that I address this immediately.
First and foremost, I must express my sincerest apologies to Dragon, his fans, and our stream viewers that were subject to the distaste apparent in our broadcast tonight. There are no excuses for such behavior, intentions included. However, being a strong believer in the adage, "actions speak louder than words," I'd like to extend an offer to Dragon, and indirectly to his fans, in an attempt to make amends. If his schedule permits, it would be our pleasure to sponsor Dragon at IPL 4 in Vegas -- player pass, hotel, and flight included. We would love for him to represent Playhem at the event, but understand if his preference is otherwise. The offer stands regardless. I can't read or write Korean, so if someone who does would be kind enough to help me contact and communicate with him, please email me at rdesanto@playhem.com.
Over the past year we have found our home in the Starcraft 2 community, for which we are proud and grateful. Without the daily support our players and fans, we would cease to exist. I will admit, this situation was handled improperly, and my apology probably too late. And so, I understand if you ignore my appeal, but please do not let the actions of an individual be representative of Playhem as a whole. All-in-all there are nearly 30 of us who wake up every morning and work into the hours of night with the singular goal of making Playhem something special. If everyone can take a step back from what transpired tonight, I think our true intentions are clear. We are committed to providing quality entertainment to the e-sports community, players of all skills and spectators alike. We <3 e-sports and all those involved, wanting nothing more than to continue showing our support in any way we can.
That said, I do not know what the fair punishment is, yet. I will ask, if a reformed player previously fallen from grace deserves redemption, should a caster not as well? I suppose Katu holds the answer to this question, but ultimately you, the community, will be the judge.
Unfortunately, my role in Playhem distances me from our day to day operations and an active involvement in the e-sports community. Between leading a team of 20 developers, heading up business development, fundraising, and everything else that comes with running a start-up, I'm left with little time to engage in a passion that was the catalyst for founding this company. What's even more unfortunate, is that an event of this nature is what brings me back. I'm truly sorry that any of this happened.
To be biased and a little ignorant, a demonstration of remorse from Katu would be a good start (not sure if he already apologised). Playhem has surely shown it's attitude towards the situation yet we haven't even seen Katu's apology or if he even thinks he should be apologising. Until he has shown growth has a caster and person from this event, I believe he needs to be at least suspended from the Playhem casting team.
edit: nvm
I can assure everyone that Katu will no longer be a representative of Playhem, and seemingly shouldn't have been for some time.
Really great move from playhem, appreciate it a lot! As far as Katu goes he should be recieving some punishment, maybe 3-6months stop casting? I think kicking him forever is too harsh considering the dragon move.
On February 28 2012 21:44 RyanDeSanto wrote: So there's no confusion, my comment about retribution was not meant to indicate favor in either direction. It was more a theoretical proposition that probably did not belong in my post to begin with. That said, its probably best not to leave this open ended. I can assure everyone that Katu will no longer be a representative of Playhem, and seemingly shouldn't have been for some time.
i'm glad to see this is finally being done. Obviously it's not the best circumstances for it to happen but good riddance.
HUGE HUGE HUGE respect for you to making the offer you mentioned and getting rid of Katu on such short notice. Will be watching playhem more often than before
My previous attempts at rationality seems to have eluded many. Let me try another perspective. When anyone from an organization screws up, they can either make amends or cut all relationship with the person who screwed up. Playhem could have gotten rid of Katu and hope Dragon isn't affected too much by what happened and the viewers will return. It wouldn't make very much sense to both remove Katu and pay for Dragon's trip to IPL4. If the community doesn't accept this as a sufficient means of correcting mistakes, in the future any mistakes will be dealt with by only remove the person at fault and no compensation to those who might have been hurt.
While being grateful to playhem, we are indirectly saying we don't really appreciate this and only want blood. Not sure how relevant this is, but this makes me think of Roman Colosseum. People would prefer tax money go to blood, gore and death, rather than infrastructure, security and progress. Mistakes will be made, but rather than improving one persons life, we prefer to see someone's life ruined, regardless of what is justified or fair. And to reiterate myself, we can't always have both.
Edit: Well it appears Katu has basically been cut already, so this is simply the reality we have to live with. It certainly was quite arrogant of me to think that my post could change the mentality of a community.
On February 28 2012 20:35 RyanDeSanto wrote: Hi everyone,
I'm Ryan, one of the founders of Playhem. I'm sorry if the following is sloppy and disorganized -- It's after 3am and was just woken up to my phone pinging with all of the complaint emails we've received due to this incident. However, I think its imperative that I address this immediately.
First and foremost, I must express my sincerest apologies to Dragon, his fans, and our stream viewers that were subject to the distaste apparent in our broadcast tonight. There are no excuses for such behavior, intentions included. However, being a strong believer in the adage, "actions speak louder than words," I'd like to extend an offer to Dragon, and indirectly to his fans, in an attempt to make amends. If his schedule permits, it would be our pleasure to sponsor Dragon at IPL 4 in Vegas -- player pass, hotel, and flight included. We would love for him to represent Playhem at the event, but understand if his preference is otherwise. The offer stands regardless. I can't read or write Korean, so if someone who does would be kind enough to help me contact and communicate with him, please email me at rdesanto@playhem.com.
Over the past year we have found our home in the Starcraft 2 community, for which we are proud and grateful. Without the daily support our players and fans, we would cease to exist. I will admit, this situation was handled improperly, and my apology probably too late. And so, I understand if you ignore my appeal, but please do not let the actions of an individual be representative of Playhem as a whole. All-in-all there are nearly 30 of us who wake up every morning and work into the hours of night with the singular goal of making Playhem something special. If everyone can take a step back from what transpired tonight, I think our true intentions are clear. We are committed to providing quality entertainment to the e-sports community, players of all skills and spectators alike. We <3 e-sports and all those involved, wanting nothing more than to continue showing our support in any way we can.
That said, I do not know what the fair punishment is, yet. I will ask, if a reformed player previously fallen from grace deserves redemption, should a caster not as well? I suppose Katu holds the answer to this question, but ultimately you, the community, will be the judge.
Unfortunately, my role in Playhem distances me from our day to day operations and an active involvement in the e-sports community. Between leading a team of 20 developers, heading up business development, fundraising, and everything else that comes with running a start-up, I'm left with little time to engage in a passion that was the catalyst for founding this company. What's even more unfortunate, is that an event of this nature is what brings me back. I'm truly sorry that any of this happened.
Wow this is extremely awesome from PlayhemTV. I thought they are screwed after this incident but this action is the best possible way to resolve it. Awesome again. You sir are one awesome man
On February 28 2012 21:37 -Duderino- wrote: Get rid of katu, nobody disrespects the Dragon and gets away without being burned.
You realize hes the Korean CombatEX, though? Calm down, kid
You must know nothing about the scene. Comparing Dragon to CombatEX lol. I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
1) cheat 2) apologize, promise repentance 3) wait for everyone to forget 4) profit
Looks like CombatEX style to me. But that besides the point, you guys want to crucify a guy who said some harsh things about a player with tarnished reputation. To be perfectly honest i cant stand all the fanaticism and zealotry players are getting.
That's a pretty cool way for Playhem to make up for the unfair treatment of Dragon, good work.
There's no reason to be so overly harsh towards Katu, sure he should be reprimanded in some way but it's not like you gotta ruin his career or anything, just slap him on the wrist and hope he learns from this experience or his job could actually be in jeopardy if he doesn't take it more seriusly. Put your pitchforks away lads, sometimes people make stupid mistakes, at the end of the day what Katu did was dickish but he probably didn't have any malicious intent and just screwed up, shit happens.
On February 28 2012 22:05 Elem wrote: Cute move, shame Dragon will go out in the first round if you do send him tho. People don't exactly watch him for his "gosu play".
Nice to see too that people finally realises what a douchebag Katu is.
Wow Ryan thats awesome of you, taking responsability of people who are representing your organisation and making ammends is really great to see. Dragon is a really fun streamer and he does his thing and to get that kind of treatment from anyone was pretty uncalled for since it wasn't anything to do with him.
I hope he takes the offer and I hope he gets insane nukes at IPL
On a side note there is nothing wrong with playhem itself its a great service and its great to have daily events for all levels for fun and a little bit of money. I love the content that it brings to the community and its such a great idea in general. Its just a shame that the biggest amount of press they get ever was for a guy acting the maggot.
On February 28 2012 16:30 PlayhemTV wrote: Hi everyone (and reddit),
I want to clear up a few things about what happened tonight, and explain the full details to those who may have missed some of it and only joined part way through.
Before I start, please be aware that I do not agree with the way Katu acted and we agree that he handled the situation badly, however I want to stress more than anything that Katu did not at any point actually believe Dragon was cheating. I want everyone to know this above all else because Dragon should not be dragged into this, he was not stream cheating and did nothing wrong.
What happened: Dragon ended up on our stream as he has many times in the past, his viewers often multi-view our stream with his and so we got a large influx of viewers entering chat. Dragon's fans began criticizing Katu and his co-caster heavily during the cast and this later escalated into insults and trolling to which Katu responded by "trolling" them back. The members in chat didn't take well to this and began taking what he was saying to heart and further insulting Katu, unfortunately Katu did not step away from the situation but got caught up trying to incite the viewers with intentionally ridiculous claims (eventually hinting at him stream cheating as a cause for what we already knew was just bad lag on Dragon's part) from which point chat digressed to name calling, death threats, and pitch forks; chat became entirely unmanageable and things went down hill fast.
I want to stress again, while what Katu said was disrespectful and unprofessional, and he handled the situation very poorly, he did not actually think Dragon was cheating, or sincerely mean the other remarks he was making, they were all directed at angering the people flaming him in chat.
It's extremely unfortunate that the games we saw tonight were tarnished with childish arguments and poor behavior on our part, but what's done is done and we can't undo what transpired. Normally, respect for the players is our highest rule and one of the few we enforce with time-outs in chat, and having an incident like this occur was very out of character for how our casts normally transpire. If you were a first time viewer tonight I cannot blame you if you don't return to our stream, however I want to ask that everyone can try to put this behind us and give us a chance to improve our mistakes in the future.
From everyone that works on the production behind the PlayhemTV stream to the viewers, followers, fans, and players in our tournaments: we hope you'll accept our sincerest apologies and know that we recognize the mistakes that we made and don't intend to let them happen again.
It's a shame you're defending your caster here. Just get rid of him, because a lot of us just don't wanna hear about him ever again, tbh
Okay guys, he messed up, and I've been very critical of the caster's statements in this thread, but don't overreact. If you got fired from your job or instantly failed a class because you were late once, it certainly would not be fair. I agree that this topic shouldn't be completely overlooked and ignored, but this is Katu's job as well and he clearly wants to do well, but made a mistake. I try to think of this from a different perspective too, like what happened to Coca. He didn't realize how serious his actions were during a tournament (throwing a match to a friend), where Coca couldn't gain anything from winning, but his friend would have a chance at a Code A seed. Coca was removed from Code S and temporarily left the team house. He was not fired, but he was punished. Coca didn't realize how serious it was what he was doing, but accepted a very steep punishment once understanding of the situation. He was not let go with a slap on the wrist either.
Just another way to look at the topic.
I'm pretty sure that there was no Code A reward for that tournament (I seem to remmeber an official making a statement on this shortly after it happened). It was basically meaningless for both of them. But yeah pretty much agree with everything you said.
On February 28 2012 21:37 -Duderino- wrote: Get rid of katu, nobody disrespects the Dragon and gets away without being burned.
You realize hes the Korean CombatEX, though? Calm down, kid
Dragon is a troll, but he doesn't cheat and the trolling is in his gameplay, not his bm toward opponents etc.
What Katu said is not completely false. Dragon was caught and admitted to cheating a very long time ago in Korea. There has been no recurrence or at least any evidence of any cheating since then.
Dragon did cheat. And he has been working hard since then to repair his reputation. I'll also note that Slayers recruited him after he had cheated and people found out (despite what Katu said about slayers kicking him for cheating). For Dragon to have his named dragged back through the mud for no reason except a caster that feels like "trolling" chat is just disgusting behaviour.
On February 28 2012 16:30 PlayhemTV wrote: Hi everyone (and reddit),
I want to clear up a few things about what happened tonight, and explain the full details to those who may have missed some of it and only joined part way through.
Before I start, please be aware that I do not agree with the way Katu acted and we agree that he handled the situation badly, however I want to stress more than anything that Katu did not at any point actually believe Dragon was cheating. I want everyone to know this above all else because Dragon should not be dragged into this, he was not stream cheating and did nothing wrong.
What happened: Dragon ended up on our stream as he has many times in the past, his viewers often multi-view our stream with his and so we got a large influx of viewers entering chat. Dragon's fans began criticizing Katu and his co-caster heavily during the cast and this later escalated into insults and trolling to which Katu responded by "trolling" them back. The members in chat didn't take well to this and began taking what he was saying to heart and further insulting Katu, unfortunately Katu did not step away from the situation but got caught up trying to incite the viewers with intentionally ridiculous claims (eventually hinting at him stream cheating as a cause for what we already knew was just bad lag on Dragon's part) from which point chat digressed to name calling, death threats, and pitch forks; chat became entirely unmanageable and things went down hill fast.
I want to stress again, while what Katu said was disrespectful and unprofessional, and he handled the situation very poorly, he did not actually think Dragon was cheating, or sincerely mean the other remarks he was making, they were all directed at angering the people flaming him in chat.
It's extremely unfortunate that the games we saw tonight were tarnished with childish arguments and poor behavior on our part, but what's done is done and we can't undo what transpired. Normally, respect for the players is our highest rule and one of the few we enforce with time-outs in chat, and having an incident like this occur was very out of character for how our casts normally transpire. If you were a first time viewer tonight I cannot blame you if you don't return to our stream, however I want to ask that everyone can try to put this behind us and give us a chance to improve our mistakes in the future.
From everyone that works on the production behind the PlayhemTV stream to the viewers, followers, fans, and players in our tournaments: we hope you'll accept our sincerest apologies and know that we recognize the mistakes that we made and don't intend to let them happen again.
It's a shame you're defending your caster here. Just get rid of him, because a lot of us just don't wanna hear about him ever again, tbh
Okay guys, he messed up, and I've been very critical of the caster's statements in this thread, but don't overreact. If you got fired from your job or instantly failed a class because you were late once, it certainly would not be fair. I agree that this topic shouldn't be completely overlooked and ignored, but this is Katu's job as well and he clearly wants to do well, but made a mistake. I try to think of this from a different perspective too, like what happened to Coca. He didn't realize how serious his actions were during a tournament (throwing a match to a friend), where Coca couldn't gain anything from winning, but his friend would have a chance at a Code A seed. Coca was removed from Code S and temporarily left the team house. He was not fired, but he was punished. Coca didn't realize how serious it was what he was doing, but accepted a very steep punishment once understanding of the situation. He was not let go with a slap on the wrist either.
Just another way to look at the topic.
I'm pretty sure that there was no Code A reward for that tournament (I seem to remmeber an official making a statement on this shortly after it happened). It was basically meaningless for both of them. But yeah pretty much agree with everything you said.
There was no Code A seed award, winning that tournament (the game vs Coca was not the finals), put you into another tournament, the winner of which would receive a Code A seed. So it was a very distant possibility of any award and the event was still taken very seriously.
On February 28 2012 21:44 RyanDeSanto wrote: So there's no confusion, my comment about retribution was not meant to indicate favor in either direction. It was more a theoretical proposition that probably did not belong in my post to begin with. That said, its probably best not to leave this open ended. I can assure everyone that Katu will no longer be a representative of Playhem, and seemingly shouldn't have been for some time.
I can understand why, but I do think this is overreacting a bit. Yes Katu was out of line and I'm certainly not defending what he said, but the punishment doesn't really fit the crime in this case. I believe an official warning or something similar would be a better fit. He was after all a pretty good caster when he was behaving properly. I was watching both Playhem's and Dragon's streams when things were going downhill and Dragon didn't seem to be offended at all. Although to be fair it could be that he either wasn't aware or understood what was being said about him. But my point is that if Dragon can forgive Katu, then so should his fans be able to. At least wait for a reaction from him before making any decisions.
I mean, everyone has their panties in a bunch...But the guy DID cheat. Like, that happened. He promised not to compete in anymore and was sorry for what he did.
Maybe people deserve forgiveness for their screw ups, but when you're a professional player, and you cheat, your career should be over. That should be it. If you can't be trusted to uphold the integrity of the game, why should you be awarded money or fame, ever.
On February 28 2012 21:44 RyanDeSanto wrote: So there's no confusion, my comment about retribution was not meant to indicate favor in either direction. It was more a theoretical proposition that probably did not belong in my post to begin with. That said, its probably best not to leave this open ended. I can assure everyone that Katu will no longer be a representative of Playhem, and seemingly shouldn't have been for some time.
I can understand why, but I do think this is overreacting a bit. Yes Katu was out of line and I'm certainly not defending what he said, but the punishment doesn't really fit the crime in this case. I believe an official warning or something similar would be a better fit. He was after all a pretty good caster when he was behaving properly. I was watching both Playhem's and Dragon's streams when things were going downhill and Dragon didn't seem to be offended at all. Although to be fair it could be that he either wasn't aware or understood what was being said about him. But my point is that if Dragon can forgive Katu, then so should his fans be able to. At least wait for a reaction from him before making any decisions.
I understand your sentiment, though actions outside of this incident are also a factor in my decision. Playhem does not tolerate any bigotry, homophobia, or general disrespect of any kind -- no matter how vernacular or seemingly accepted the terms are.
Maybe this is a good opportunity for the community to come together and draft guidelines for caster ethics and behavior.
I initially liked Katu as caster, but later on he seemed very rude, even when he made mistakes like not switching to the game and stay on the overlays he was like whatever viewers, idc.. It felt like he didn't care about his viewers. At least that's the way I felt.
What Playhem have offered to Dragon is amazing. I even with this issue I have, and will, always look up to Playhem for what they do to the community and the tournaments and money the bring. No one should ever go against them as it is places like Playhem where players become pro and the magic of esports happens.
Wit the issue of the caster himself, Katu. What he did was an absolute disgrace, this is something I did not want to witness is the SC2 community. If anyone has there pitchforks out it should be for him and only him, he should also lose his casting position without a doubt. Maybe one day he can be forgiven and grow as a caster, but as of that single cast he has knocked himself to the bottom and only has himself to blame. He needs to lay low, apologize and change.
T.L.D.R: Playhem = Awesome. Katu = the problem. Should no longer cast for playhem and apologize.
On February 28 2012 21:44 RyanDeSanto wrote: So there's no confusion, my comment about retribution was not meant to indicate favor in either direction. It was more a theoretical proposition that probably did not belong in my post to begin with. That said, its probably best not to leave this open ended. I can assure everyone that Katu will no longer be a representative of Playhem, and seemingly shouldn't have been for some time.
I will not stop watching Playhem due to one bad action. Never seen Katu cast so i don't have an opinion. I'm guessing playhem will have a discussion with Katu. Whatever, gogo Playhem! You are providing some nice service for e-sports!
About Dragon, the burdon of proof is on the accuser I would say. If he is cheating (again) he doesn't deserv a spot in any tournament and Playhem should try to stay away from him. But proof before judgeing!
People make stupid mistakes, and act like idiots. What Katu said was with no question unacceptable. Send your feedback to Playhem and if you can't forgive Katu don't watch when he is casting, that is your personal choice. Just don't boycott wonderful tournaments entirely like Playhem and KSL. A lot of great work goes into producing some amazing content.
On February 28 2012 21:44 RyanDeSanto wrote: So there's no confusion, my comment about retribution was not meant to indicate favor in either direction. It was more a theoretical proposition that probably did not belong in my post to begin with. That said, its probably best not to leave this open ended. I can assure everyone that Katu will no longer be a representative of Playhem, and seemingly shouldn't have been for some time.
I can understand why, but I do think this is overreacting a bit. Yes Katu was out of line and I'm certainly not defending what he said, but the punishment doesn't really fit the crime in this case. I believe an official warning or something similar would be a better fit. He was after all a pretty good caster when he was behaving properly. I was watching both Playhem's and Dragon's streams when things were going downhill and Dragon didn't seem to be offended at all. Although to be fair it could be that he either wasn't aware or understood what was being said about him. But my point is that if Dragon can forgive Katu, then so should his fans be able to. At least wait for a reaction from him before making any decisions.
I understand your sentiment, though actions outside of this incident are also a factor in my decision. Playhem does not tolerate any bigotry, homophobia, or general disrespect of any kind -- no matter how vernacular or seemingly accepted the terms are.
Maybe this is a good opportunity for the community to come together and draft guidelines for caster ethics and behavior.
I see. I was unaware that this wasn't an isolated incident and then I support your decision. Thank you for the clarification.
And having some guidelines to follow might be a good idea, but not only for the casters but the viewers as well. Both sides did some heavy pie tossing last night (or whatever time it was in US, it was night here at least ), including death threats towards Katu and such. And props to the chat moderators who still kept the chat relatively clean. It can't have been an easy job. Note that I'm not trying to hold Playhem responsible for it's viewers' actions. I'm just throwing it out there for the community to think about. Rabid fans can be just as damaging to a player's reputation as what Katu said.
On February 28 2012 22:57 Argolis wrote: I got my pitchfork ready, who we going after today?
Playwho?
LOL, I hear what you're saying but this is one of those increasing rare situations where a pitchfork may be appropriate. Not to go after Playhem, but the caster in question.
There are far too many wonderfully talented up and coming casters to warrant someone like him getting a casting chair on Playhem's official stream.
This was posted in the reddit thread, though it will likely get buried so I re-post here.
Hello SC2 community,
First and foremost I'd like to apologize once again, and clarify in lieu of some of the comments here, that I did apologize last night not only on stream but I also approached a translator who communicated for me to Dragon my apologies and reasoning.
First I would like to say that trolling is not a professional way to act, though, it can be fun and in person I do it constantly, on air more rarely, but in both cases, I always do it for a laugh and never to tear anyone down. Last night I had a lapse in judgement, thinking at the time that it would be funny to make comments which were inappropriate. I sincerely apologize for making these comments, and any negative impact it had on Dragon.
At the time, I unfortunately did not realize the kind of outrage I was creating. As I'm casting I glance quickly at the chat to look for any audio or video/overlay problems and then get back to the cast. Through these glances I did not appreciate the impact of my comments and thought it to be the usual minority of people who are either trying to stir things up or trolling right back. Bonk who was co-casting tried to warn me as he had his eye on the chat a lot more than I did, however, I did not understand.
So instead of clarifying immediately I just kept it going, unbeknownst to me, simply fueling the fire I had no intention of starting.
Finally, during a game I saw some comments made by co-casters which made no sense, considering the way I thought this was going and then I took a more than 2 second glance at the chat and started to realize what was happening. I was incredulous at first, truly stunned, I couldn't believe the way this had actually gone and I tried to apologize but it was too late. If you watched the video, you'll notice that I am rather calm about what I'm saying and nonchalant about the comments from chat. I really did not understand how South everything had gone.
I hope this clarifies things a bit, though I likely hope in vain. I do want to state that the things I said were from me, and my own mistakes, and that playhem has the best casters I've ever had the privilege to work with, who shouldn't all be painted with this brush.
To all those of you who tried to explain and continued to support I sincerely thank you for your efforts though I was in the wrong for ever even trying to make such jokes.
Yes, what Katu does sucked, and no, he's not the greatest, but I don't think we should drive a pitchfork through his career (well..not yet at least). I think a stern warning to not let such a thing happen again, with some disciplinary action (I have no idea how the inner workings of Playhem work, but perhaps a suspension from casting for a while?) and a firm "If this happens again, you're gone" sentiment would be good enough.
I'm not a fan of Katu, but I hate to see someone's career/lifestyle ruined because of one stupid mistake.
EDIT: Also, Playhem. Wow. What a fantastic offer to Dragon...even if he doesn't take it, that's VERY big of you.
On February 28 2012 23:20 KatuStarcraft wrote: At the time, I unfortunately did not realize the kind of outrage I was creating. As I'm casting I glance quickly at the chat to look for any audio or video/overlay problems and then get back to the cast. Through these glances I did not appreciate the impact of my comments and thought it to be the usual minority of people who are either trying to stir things up or trolling right back. Bonk who was co-casting tried to warn me as he had his eye on the chat a lot more than I did, however, I did not understand.
Could someone who watched the stream comment on the truth of this part of Katu's post....from what I had read, it seemed as if he was reading the chat and loving the negative reaction he was getting.
Mr. DeSanto, your response struck a chord. For what my opinion is worth, which may be very close to nothing, I believe the steps you took to redress the situation, and more specifically your offer to sponsor Dragon for an upcoming tournament, is way beyond what would be expected or required of you or your company given the magnitude of the offense. This is both commendable and regrettable; commendable because it is a very kind gesture that demonstrates your commitment to your craft, and regrettable because, presumably, it will cost you.
I do agree that your caster's actions were reprehensible, and initially tended to agree with the storm of outrage, but now that the dust has settled a little, I find it sad that one individual's mistake could have such repercussions on an organization that, in the end, works to promote and benefit the game we all love. It may have been sufficient if you had publicly reprimanded your caster or suspended him for a few weeks. Like you very rightly said, if we, the community, wish to comport ourselves as purveyors of justice, then we should recognize that if one individual deserves forgiveness, so should another.
However, all that said, your gesture is very graceful and merits respect. As in all things, you have to take the good with the bad; the good being, in this case, that you took this opportunity to prove to the community your work ethic, which is admirable.
indeed I was, but I was only glancing at it, and again thinking it was just a small minority of people trying to stir things up and didn't get what I was up too.
On February 28 2012 23:20 KatuStarcraft wrote: This was posted in the reddit thread, though it will likely get buried so I re-post here.
Hello SC2 community,
First and foremost I'd like to apologize once again, and clarify in lieu of some of the comments here, that I did apologize last night not only on stream but I also approached a translator who communicated for me to Dragon my apologies and reasoning.
First I would like to say that trolling is not a professional way to act, though, it can be fun and in person I do it constantly, on air more rarely, but in both cases, I always do it for a laugh and never to tear anyone down. Last night I had a lapse in judgement, thinking at the time that it would be funny to make comments which were inappropriate. I sincerely apologize for making these comments, and any negative impact it had on Dragon.
At the time, I unfortunately did not realize the kind of outrage I was creating. As I'm casting I glance quickly at the chat to look for any audio or video/overlay problems and then get back to the cast. Through these glances I did not appreciate the impact of my comments and thought it to be the usual minority of people who are either trying to stir things up or trolling right back. Bonk who was co-casting tried to warn me as he had his eye on the chat a lot more than I did, however, I did not understand.
So instead of clarifying immediately I just kept it going, unbeknownst to me, simply fueling the fire I had no intention of starting.
Right, so what Katu did may not have been the best way to handle the situation; that said, I don't think it is fair to blow up the guy because of it. Sure, he deserves some form of punishment but let the dust settle and please let it not be a knee jerk reaction to a flame-mob.
This was posted in the reddit thread, though it will likely get buried so I re-post here.
Hello SC2 community,
First and foremost I'd like to apologize once again, and clarify in lieu of some of the comments here, that I did apologize last night not only on stream but I also approached a translator who communicated for me to Dragon my apologies and reasoning.
First I would like to say that trolling is not a professional way to act, though, it can be fun and in person I do it constantly, on air more rarely, but in both cases, I always do it for a laugh and never to tear anyone down. Last night I had a lapse in judgement, thinking at the time that it would be funny to make comments which were inappropriate. I sincerely apologize for making these comments, and any negative impact it had on Dragon.
At the time, I unfortunately did not realize the kind of outrage I was creating. As I'm casting I glance quickly at the chat to look for any audio or video/overlay problems and then get back to the cast. Through these glances I did not appreciate the impact of my comments and thought it to be the usual minority of people who are either trying to stir things up or trolling right back. Bonk who was co-casting tried to warn me as he had his eye on the chat a lot more than I did, however, I did not understand.
So instead of clarifying immediately I just kept it going, unbeknownst to me, simply fueling the fire I had no intention of starting.
Finally, during a game I saw some comments made by co-casters which made no sense, considering the way I thought this was going and then I took a more than 2 second glance at the chat and started to realize what was happening. I was incredulous at first, truly stunned, I couldn't believe the way this had actually gone and I tried to apologize but it was too late. If you watched the video, you'll notice that I am rather calm about what I'm saying and nonchalant about the comments from chat. I really did not understand how South everything had gone.
I hope this clarifies things a bit, though I likely hope in vain. I do want to state that the things I said were from me, and my own mistakes, and that playhem has the best casters I've ever had the privilege to work with, who shouldn't all be painted with this brush.
To all those of you who tried to explain and continued to support I sincerely thank you for your efforts though I was in the wrong for ever even trying to make such jokes.
edit: forget it, don't want to get involved in this
if you take the time to read the transcription, dragons history, the rage in this thread and the answer from playhemtv, any mature human can only come to one conclusion:
You wasted your time reading this. I know you guys like drama but even if i look close i can not see one. If this goes on, every caster and player will only read from letters, that are signed by there lawyers.
edit: looks like the pitchforks won and playthem , katu, dragon and all sc2fans lost.
On February 28 2012 23:43 Hayl_Storm wrote: Right, so what Katu did may not have been the best way to handle the situation; that said, I don't think it is fair to blow up the guy because of it. Sure, he deserves some form of punishment but let the dust settle and please let it not be a knee jerk reaction to a flame-mob.
I agree that apology is sufficient, whether you agree with the semantics or not. I think It should be dropped and let Playhem handle Katu the way they see fit.
On February 28 2012 23:20 KatuStarcraft wrote: This was posted in the reddit thread, though it will likely get buried so I re-post here.
Hello SC2 community,
First and foremost I'd like to apologize once again, and clarify in lieu of some of the comments here, that I did apologize last night not only on stream but I also approached a translator who communicated for me to Dragon my apologies and reasoning.
First I would like to say that trolling is not a professional way to act, though, it can be fun and in person I do it constantly, on air more rarely, but in both cases, I always do it for a laugh and never to tear anyone down. Last night I had a lapse in judgement, thinking at the time that it would be funny to make comments which were inappropriate. I sincerely apologize for making these comments, and any negative impact it had on Dragon.
At the time, I unfortunately did not realize the kind of outrage I was creating. As I'm casting I glance quickly at the chat to look for any audio or video/overlay problems and then get back to the cast. Through these glances I did not appreciate the impact of my comments and thought it to be the usual minority of people who are either trying to stir things up or trolling right back. Bonk who was co-casting tried to warn me as he had his eye on the chat a lot more than I did, however, I did not understand.
So instead of clarifying immediately I just kept it going, unbeknownst to me, simply fueling the fire I had no intention of starting.
This isn't an apology. It's an excuse.
It certainly is an apology, with insight to the thought process at the time. It shows genuine remorse and regret, not simply for getting in trouble, but for unknowingly and unintentionally offending people. It's pretty clear that the offence was not intentional and was due to lack of understanding of the sensitivity of the subject. Metaphorically, this wasn't a case of a school yard bully poking fun of the handicap kid, it was a newly transferred foreign kid ignorantly pointing out an embarrassing lisp of fellow student. Everyone makes mistakes and those willing to pay for their mistakes deserve a second chance, at least that's my feeling on it.
it's amusing how Katu cleary didn't have his facts straight regarding Dragons past and now his misconeptions can be used to sum himself up. a person w/ an issue regarding stream cheating who was removed from an organization and somewhat blacklisted.
as for my personal opinions regarding the incident. i feel it's unfair to simply remove Katu for this singular incident. we're asked to forgive dragon for past incidents, but not Katu? if what Playhem says is true and that many factors played a role in his removal, than I'm more understanding.
i just hope the community as a whole can learn from this incident. how casters and fans should behave. Katu should be forgiven for this singular mistake and dragon's fans should back down a little. this isn't exactly the best PR for him and he didn't even do anything besides play in an online tournament.
I agree. Listen, someone can apologize only after he has realized he made a mistake.
I think this is what happened with Katu, even if it took a while for him to realize it. Reading what he wrote a few posts up, it seems to me that he is not trying to provide excuses (he does unequivocally admit he was wrong, after all), but rather a framework for our understanding. If you understand, you can forgive...or not. But if you are asking for maturity, then the mature thing to do is to accept his apology and let this end here.
Last night i posted here and i was pissed. But to be honest now i feel bad for Katu. I am a dragon fan but I think katus career should NOT be ruined because of this, he just went overboard then panicked trying to clean up got his facts wrong etc. Dragon did cheat hes working hard to restore his reputation katu accusing him didnt help. I think katu deserves a second chance 100% just as dragon has his second chance after cheating. If you really dont think katu deserves a second chance then you probably shouldnt think dragon deserves one either.
Even as someone who's never liked Katu's casting/humor like this, I think it's enough that the guy lost his job and his now ex-employer (kudos to him for doing so by the way) fires him in such a public way. I'm not saying I'm not blown away by Ryan's straightforwardness and think he's being awesome about everything, just saying that it sucks badly enough for Katu that it's happening this way.
An incident took place, the guy responsible was punished. I don't think we want to ruin this guy's career over this.
On February 28 2012 23:20 KatuStarcraft wrote: At the time, I unfortunately did not realize the kind of outrage I was creating. As I'm casting I glance quickly at the chat to look for any audio or video/overlay problems and then get back to the cast. Through these glances I did not appreciate the impact of my comments and thought it to be the usual minority of people who are either trying to stir things up or trolling right back. Bonk who was co-casting tried to warn me as he had his eye on the chat a lot more than I did, however, I did not understand.
Could someone who watched the stream comment on the truth of this part of Katu's post....from what I had read, it seemed as if he was reading the chat and loving the negative reaction he was getting.
The chat on twitchTV is nothing to take seriously. Most of the discussion that goes on there will slowly lower your IQ, that's why I either close it or take it with a grain of salt...
that wasnt trolling.. katu should be sacked and if any tournament takes him on after this ill be suprised! .. accusing dragon of cheating ~? just cause he did it over a year ago, and making up stories that he was kicked out of slayers for it? Ridiculous
but thanks to the head of playhem hopefully dragon accepts the invite! , Has dragon responded to anything the caster have said about him ? or the invite?
as for my personal opinions regarding the incident. i feel it's unfair to simply remove Katu for this singular incident. we're asked to forgive dragon for past incidents, but not Katu? if what Playhem says is true and that many factors played a role in his removal, than I'm more understanding.
Dragon was punished and removed from WeRRa when the cheating incident occured, for ruining the companys brand image they are representing, the same thing is happening with Katu. We can still forgive Katu further down the line, but first he needs to prove that he should be forgiven.
The apology is just because of the reactions. He's clearly not mature enough to cast a professional/serious event. As long as Katu is affiliated with Playhem I won't watch it again. And it goes for any futher events.
On February 29 2012 00:06 EatsDirt wrote: Last night i posted here and i was pissed. But to be honest now i feel bad for Katu. I am a dragon fan but I think katus career should NOT be ruined because of this, he just went overboard then panicked trying to clean up got his facts wrong etc. Dragon did cheat hes working hard to restore his reputation katu accusing him didnt help. I think katu deserves a second chance 100% just as dragon has his second chance after cheating. If you really dont think katu deserves a second chance then you probably shouldnt think dragon deserves one either.
Sorry if typos sending from my phone
Then he needs to step away and come back when he's matured and figured out a way to not be a douchebag/troll when "on the job".
I'm sure Katu is sincerely sorry, but you've got to wonder if the best move for Playhem wouldn't just be to get rid of him. The Dragon offer was a great move, which should mitigate most of the damage, but with Katu around I can imagine someone will always have issues prioritizing Playhem over other stuff going on.
On February 29 2012 00:18 GeorgeForeman wrote: Don't you get it guys? He's sorry because people were mad! He's not sorry for what he did, only for the reaction it caused.
yeah, because that's one anyone is ever sorry for.
On February 29 2012 00:22 Nimic wrote: I'm sure Katu is sincerely sorry, but you've got to wonder if the best move for Playhem wouldn't just be to get rid of him. The Dragon offer was a great move, which should mitigate most of the damage, but with Katu around I can imagine someone will always have issues prioritizing Playhem over other stuff going on.
They shouldn't get rid of him, the guy has contributed so much for Playhem. This will be another thing forgotten in less than a week, its only a hot topic now because of getting responses from them. So more people raise their pitchforks because they see they are getting a response.
He apologized multiple times on the stream, as well as posting on here and Reddit. Dragon if he accepts gets a free ride to IPL4.
On February 28 2012 20:35 RyanDeSanto wrote: Hi everyone,
I'm Ryan, one of the founders of Playhem. I'm sorry if the following is sloppy and disorganized -- It's after 3am and was just woken up to my phone pinging with all of the complaint emails we've received due to this incident. However, I think its imperative that I address this immediately.
First and foremost, I must express my sincerest apologies to Dragon, his fans, and our stream viewers that were subject to the distaste apparent in our broadcast tonight. There are no excuses for such behavior, intentions included. However, being a strong believer in the adage, "actions speak louder than words," I'd like to extend an offer to Dragon, and indirectly to his fans, in an attempt to make amends. If his schedule permits, it would be our pleasure to sponsor Dragon at IPL 4 in Vegas -- player pass, hotel, and flight included. We would love for him to represent Playhem at the event, but understand if his preference is otherwise. The offer stands regardless. I can't read or write Korean, so if someone who does would be kind enough to help me contact and communicate with him, please email me at rdesanto@playhem.com.
Over the past year we have found our home in the Starcraft 2 community, for which we are proud and grateful. Without the daily support our players and fans, we would cease to exist. I will admit, this situation was handled improperly, and my apology probably too late. And so, I understand if you ignore my appeal, but please do not let the actions of an individual be representative of Playhem as a whole. All-in-all there are nearly 30 of us who wake up every morning and work into the hours of night with the singular goal of making Playhem something special. If everyone can take a step back from what transpired tonight, I think our true intentions are clear. We are committed to providing quality entertainment to the e-sports community, players of all skills and spectators alike. We <3 e-sports and all those involved, wanting nothing more than to continue showing our support in any way we can.
That said, I do not know what the fair punishment is, yet. I will ask, if a reformed player previously fallen from grace deserves redemption, should a caster not as well? I suppose Katu holds the answer to this question, but ultimately you, the community, will be the judge.
Unfortunately, my role in Playhem distances me from our day to day operations and an active involvement in the e-sports community. Between leading a team of 20 developers, heading up business development, fundraising, and everything else that comes with running a start-up, I'm left with little time to engage in a passion that was the catalyst for founding this company. What's even more unfortunate, is that an event of this nature is what brings me back. I'm truly sorry that any of this happened.
actions certainly speak louder than words. i hear you loud and clear, and your apology is more than accepted. big time props for stepping up to the plate on this one!
as for Katu, he's a decent caster. he talks a little too much when he has a co-caster, but i dont think he deserves to be shunned from teh community. he was a douchebag to dragon, but what he said wasnt too far from the truth, after all. a temporary ban from casting playhem tournaments might be more than enough to set him straight.
On February 29 2012 00:17 gullberg wrote: I guess we can all be douchebags and just call it trolling! -.-
So much this.
I think Playhem is a neat daily tourney, it seems well run, but Katu's attitude while casting is really quite poor. I will never understand being purposefully offensive/obnoxious and saying that it's trolling. It's completely unnecessary. What is to be gained from presenting false information to a listening audience? With as much as people run on about furthering esports and the like, the community should be more vocal about deterring this sort of behavior - behavior that only makes it more difficult for new viewers to understand the game.
Katu's attitude is terrible. He barely apologized, choosing to make the "I didn't know people were going to be upset" excuse instead. For someone that's 24 years old, you would think he would possess a higher level of maturity.
i will stop supporting/playing and watching playhemTV untill Katu gets fired, sending tournaments like IPL4 or MLG is not good enough for apologize because Katu insulting Dragon's personality.
This is really unprofessional, Dragon was BoxeR's #1 practice partner at GSL open seasons.
Pitchfork threads are flipping annoying. My personal opinions beside, read the damn thread people before posting stuff like
"IM NOT WATCHING PLAYHEM TILL KATU IS FIRED"
On February 28 2012 21:44 RyanDeSanto wrote: So there's no confusion, my comment about retribution was not meant to indicate favor in either direction. It was more a theoretical proposition that probably did not belong in my post to begin with. That said, its probably best not to leave this open ended. I can assure everyone that Katu will no longer be a representative of Playhem, and seemingly shouldn't have been for some time.
On February 28 2012 20:35 RyanDeSanto wrote: Hi everyone,
I'm Ryan, one of the founders of Playhem. I'm sorry if the following is sloppy and disorganized -- It's after 3am and was just woken up to my phone pinging with all of the complaint emails we've received due to this incident. However, I think its imperative that I address this immediately.
First and foremost, I must express my sincerest apologies to Dragon, his fans, and our stream viewers that were subject to the distaste apparent in our broadcast tonight. There are no excuses for such behavior, intentions included. However, being a strong believer in the adage, "actions speak louder than words," I'd like to extend an offer to Dragon, and indirectly to his fans, in an attempt to make amends. If his schedule permits, it would be our pleasure to sponsor Dragon at IPL 4 in Vegas -- player pass, hotel, and flight included. We would love for him to represent Playhem at the event, but understand if his preference is otherwise. The offer stands regardless. I can't read or write Korean, so if someone who does would be kind enough to help me contact and communicate with him, please email me at rdesanto@playhem.com.
Over the past year we have found our home in the Starcraft 2 community, for which we are proud and grateful. Without the daily support our players and fans, we would cease to exist. I will admit, this situation was handled improperly, and my apology probably too late. And so, I understand if you ignore my appeal, but please do not let the actions of an individual be representative of Playhem as a whole. All-in-all there are nearly 30 of us who wake up every morning and work into the hours of night with the singular goal of making Playhem something special. If everyone can take a step back from what transpired tonight, I think our true intentions are clear. We are committed to providing quality entertainment to the e-sports community, players of all skills and spectators alike. We <3 e-sports and all those involved, wanting nothing more than to continue showing our support in any way we can.
That said, I do not know what the fair punishment is, yet. I will ask, if a reformed player previously fallen from grace deserves redemption, should a caster not as well? I suppose Katu holds the answer to this question, but ultimately you, the community, will be the judge.
Unfortunately, my role in Playhem distances me from our day to day operations and an active involvement in the e-sports community. Between leading a team of 20 developers, heading up business development, fundraising, and everything else that comes with running a start-up, I'm left with little time to engage in a passion that was the catalyst for founding this company. What's even more unfortunate, is that an event of this nature is what brings me back. I'm truly sorry that any of this happened.
Really good answer! Thank you, you've gained my respect.
On February 28 2012 23:20 KatuStarcraft wrote: At the time, I unfortunately did not realize the kind of outrage I was creating. As I'm casting I glance quickly at the chat to look for any audio or video/overlay problems and then get back to the cast. Through these glances I did not appreciate the impact of my comments and thought it to be the usual minority of people who are either trying to stir things up or trolling right back. Bonk who was co-casting tried to warn me as he had his eye on the chat a lot more than I did, however, I did not understand.
Could someone who watched the stream comment on the truth of this part of Katu's post....from what I had read, it seemed as if he was reading the chat and loving the negative reaction he was getting.
Watch the stream, he knew exactly what he was doing. He was commenting on how angry the stream chat was getting, which seems to be the complete opposite of what hes trying to claim. Case in point -
"You are making them so mad.." "Dude I hope they get mad. Eat it. If they can't handle the truth they should stop living in their fantasy World. Hahahahaha. This is awesome."
"You made them so angry." "Its pretty good man, I'm pretty proud of myself I must say."
"Dude I can't wait to have our normal chat back." How could he know what the chat was like if he wasn't reading it?
Yeah, he didn't know what he was doing. I hate these bullshit apologies. I don't really even care that he said what he did, but don't try and re-write history to make your apology seem more authentic bro.
On February 28 2012 20:35 RyanDeSanto wrote: Hi everyone,
I'm Ryan, one of the founders of Playhem. I'm sorry if the following is sloppy and disorganized -- It's after 3am and was just woken up to my phone pinging with all of the complaint emails we've received due to this incident. However, I think its imperative that I address this immediately.
First and foremost, I must express my sincerest apologies to Dragon, his fans, and our stream viewers that were subject to the distaste apparent in our broadcast tonight. There are no excuses for such behavior, intentions included. However, being a strong believer in the adage, "actions speak louder than words," I'd like to extend an offer to Dragon, and indirectly to his fans, in an attempt to make amends. If his schedule permits, it would be our pleasure to sponsor Dragon at IPL 4 in Vegas -- player pass, hotel, and flight included. We would love for him to represent Playhem at the event, but understand if his preference is otherwise. The offer stands regardless. I can't read or write Korean, so if someone who does would be kind enough to help me contact and communicate with him, please email me at rdesanto@playhem.com.
Over the past year we have found our home in the Starcraft 2 community, for which we are proud and grateful. Without the daily support our players and fans, we would cease to exist. I will admit, this situation was handled improperly, and my apology probably too late. And so, I understand if you ignore my appeal, but please do not let the actions of an individual be representative of Playhem as a whole. All-in-all there are nearly 30 of us who wake up every morning and work into the hours of night with the singular goal of making Playhem something special. If everyone can take a step back from what transpired tonight, I think our true intentions are clear. We are committed to providing quality entertainment to the e-sports community, players of all skills and spectators alike. We <3 e-sports and all those involved, wanting nothing more than to continue showing our support in any way we can.
That said, I do not know what the fair punishment is, yet. I will ask, if a reformed player previously fallen from grace deserves redemption, should a caster not as well? I suppose Katu holds the answer to this question, but ultimately you, the community, will be the judge.
Unfortunately, my role in Playhem distances me from our day to day operations and an active involvement in the e-sports community. Between leading a team of 20 developers, heading up business development, fundraising, and everything else that comes with running a start-up, I'm left with little time to engage in a passion that was the catalyst for founding this company. What's even more unfortunate, is that an event of this nature is what brings me back. I'm truly sorry that any of this happened.
For all the Dragon fans & to Ryan. Just so you guys know, This email has been translated and sent to Dragon! I didn't see a post with anyone who mentioned translating soooooo yeah. <3
What if... Playhem wanted to sponsor Dragon all along and all of this is just a huge hoax to make both Playhem and Dragon more popular...? -Conspiracy Keanu
Fuck an apology. Katu knew exactly what was going on and what he was continuing to do while he was doing it. Only when the community voiced their opinions did he come forth.
Not only were the casters extremely biased, they were idiotic. As Dragon made 3 command centers early game in preparation for a macro game, the casters called it "cheese" because they thought he was expanding too fast. So when Terran attacks it's cheese, and when they expand it's cheese. How fucking retarded can you be?
I don't understand why Playhem can't get competent and unbiased casters who truly know about the game instead of some bronze faggots who probably play zerg and are BM and trashy as such. You could probably use all that prize money for a real tournament that is less frequent but is of actual quality instead of having to work with piece of shit scums like Katu. Get real, never going to watch Playhem again.
On February 29 2012 00:39 dragonborn wrote: i will stop supporting/playing and watching playhemTV untill Katu gets fired, sending tournaments like IPL4 or MLG is not good enough for apologize because Katu insulting Dragon's personality.
This is really unprofessional, Dragon was BoxeR's #1 practice partner at GSL open seasons.
well i guess you can start supporting/playing and watching playhemTV from a few hours ago. they fired him already. See here
On February 28 2012 23:20 KatuStarcraft wrote: At the time, I unfortunately did not realize the kind of outrage I was creating. As I'm casting I glance quickly at the chat to look for any audio or video/overlay problems and then get back to the cast. Through these glances I did not appreciate the impact of my comments and thought it to be the usual minority of people who are either trying to stir things up or trolling right back. Bonk who was co-casting tried to warn me as he had his eye on the chat a lot more than I did, however, I did not understand.
Could someone who watched the stream comment on the truth of this part of Katu's post....from what I had read, it seemed as if he was reading the chat and loving the negative reaction he was getting.
Watch the stream, he knew exactly what he was doing. He was commenting on how angry the stream chat was getting, which seems to be the complete opposite of what hes trying to claim. Case in point -
"You are making them so mad.." "Dude I hope they get mad. Eat it. If they can't handle the truth they should stop living in their fantasy World. Hahahahaha. This is awesome."
"You made them so angry." "Its pretty good man, I'm pretty proud of myself I must say."
"Dude I can't wait to have our normal chat back." How could he know what the chat was like if he wasn't reading it?
Yeah, he didn't know what he was doing. I hate these bullshit apologies. I don't really even care that he said what he did, but don't try and re-write history to make your apology seem more authentic bro.
Thanks, I didn't want to watch the video but I had a feeling that what I'd quoted was a pantload.
On February 29 2012 00:53 ZTZS wrote: Fuck an apology. Katu knew exactly what was going on and what he was continuing to do while he was doing it. Only when the community voiced their opinions did he come forth.
Not only were the casters extremely biased, they were idiotic. As Dragon made 3 command centers early game in preparation for a macro game, the casters called it "cheese" because they thought he was expanding too fast. So when Terran attacks it's cheese, and when they expand it's cheese. How fucking retarded can you be?
I don't understand why Playhem can't get competent and unbiased casters who truly know about the game instead of some bronze faggots who probably play zerg and are BM and trashy as such. You could probably use all that prize money for a real tournament that is less frequent but is of actual quality instead of having to work with piece of shit scums like Katu. Get real, never going to watch Playhem again.
Playhem is killing e-sports.
Nice first post... totally your first account
On topic, What you are saying here is 10x as worse then what was actually said. This drama is killing e-sports. Playhem is fantastic tourney and while I won't deny Katu was a little over the top doesn't mean there needs to be so much hate.
i hope people forget this faster than the 6-probe rush ... i hope that Katu continues to cast , he casted KSL for us and playhem and now everyone wants his head...
To all the Dragon fanboys , i hope you realize that Dragon will be completely crushed on IPL4 , he plays real pros , not home-pros ...
Katu has no history of doing this and said sorry in every way possible including to Dragon and live on stream DURING the cast. It is very clear what he did was wrong and it is also very clear that it was not done in a bad way. It was done in a trolling way.
If you keep crying over a single mistake, there will be no casters left in this community. It makes me sick that retards will swarm and destroy a caster for one mistake that he never even meant to happen.
Usually I am very proud to be part of this community but this event really makes all of us look bad.
It was a mistake that never was meant to happen. It would be different if he refused to say sorry and did it over and over again. But he did not.
As a dragon fan, I hope Katu is forgiven. I do believe what he said was unprofessional and completely unacceptable, but I do believe he deserves another chance to repent for this behavior and show he can learn from this. Sure dragon did stream cheat in the past, but that's the past and it shouldn't be brought up now with no proof what so ever, just blatantly trolling. However like Dragon did, he got a second chance and did compete again, he hasn't competed in the GSL recently because he puts his real work over SC2 at the moment. With that said I hope Katu gets a second chance and is forgiven for this as everyone makes mistakes even professionals.
As for the IPL4 gesture, I believe that is a great way for Dragon to meet all of his fans. I do not believe he will do great in the tournament with all those great players, although I am a big fan of his, its the truth. I'm not saying he can't compete with them but he would have to start playing SC2 like it's his job again and practice like crazy.
Katu is one of the most manner casters I have ever seen cast and I watch his casts quite frequently through the week as he casts not only the playhem daily, but multiple other games such as the EWM and the KSL. I believe that 40-60% of the people complaining about Katu's behavior legitamately are trolling and the rest of the people don't have a clue who Katu is and are whole-hearted dragon followers. I love dragon with all my heart as well, but I know Katu, and he never means any harm. If Katu actually gets cut from the playhemtv cast, I'm sad to say that I will probably discontinue viewing playhemtv as he was easily my favorite caster in the line-up. Mind you I'm banned from the playhemtv chat and have been banned for quite awhile I still watch every day. You also have to remember that Katu doesn't get paid for what he does, and the fact that he casts so much should be proof enough that he means nothing but good. In conclusion in the event that Katu does get cut, I believe that it should be done but not in the interest of playhem, in the interest of Katu as he does not need to be part of an orginization that does not trust him and value him as a responsible, professional caster as he is definitely up there and he should be paid for what he does.
On February 29 2012 01:23 ODKStevez wrote: Katu has no history of doing this and said sorry in every way possible including to Dragon and live on stream DURING the cast. It is very clear what he did was wrong and it is also very clear that it was not done in a bad way. It was done in a trolling way.
If you keep crying over a single mistake, there will be no casters left in this community. It makes me sick that retards will swarm and destroy a caster for one mistake that he never even meant to happen.
Usually I am very proud to be part of this community but this event really makes all of us look bad.
It was a mistake that never was meant to happen. It would be different if he refused to say sorry and did it over and over again. But he did not.
This really does not seem to be true.Here is a post on reddit describing how the poster watched the stream after playing on Playhem, and was shocked at how much Kato badmannered him.
Regardless, I think it's critical that he realises that what he did was wrong not because of the community's reaction, but because casters need to show respect for the players. If this had been a less well known player, the community might have let it slide. But there's no reason they should have. The whole thing was infuriating. "I'm not saying he's stream hacking, but notice that he starts lagging only now. I'm not even implying anything" What is he, fucking Fox News?
On February 29 2012 01:15 tapk69 wrote: i hope people forget this faster than the 6-probe rush ... i hope that Katu continues to cast , he casted KSL for us and playhem and now everyone wants his head...
To all the Dragon fanboys , i hope you realize that Dragon will be completely crushed on IPL4 , he plays real pros , not home-pros ...
Dragon is clearly one step under the big favorites, but he has his chance getting to the group stage. If he gets there however, he will not go further that's for sure.
But you got to understand the goal here is not to recruiting someone to win a tournament. The goal is to make playhem more visible through the big notoriety of dragon. On the counterpart, dragon gets a free trip to vegas and a chance to compete with the best and proove his skills.
Good that playham is being so fast picking up on this. Katu's behavior is unacceptable and it's a disgrace to the community. I love how he's trying to deny that he accused him for stream cheating. Pathetic. Should not be a part of this good organisation. Looking forward to the final decision from playham.
Well you dont really see casters saying stuff like this is about players like TT1 and DIMAGA, Dragons case is almost as irrelevant today as their is (the main diffrence being that their case was in BW and Dragons case was in sc2 beta). Extremely unprofessional, I dont think Katu's reputation will ever recover from this.
On February 29 2012 02:01 Eee wrote: Well you dont really see casters saying stuff like this is about players like TT1 and DIMAGA, Dragons case is almost as irrelevant today as their is (the main diffrence being that their case was in BW and Dragons case was in sc2 beta). Extremely unprofessional, I dont think Katu's reputation will ever recover from this.
And it should not. Wanna drag people's name into the mud? Loose your job.
Even if all the streamcheating stuff was true, who are you to call people out like that? you Judge Dredd? oh no youre just Katu. Now be judged. lol
On February 28 2012 21:44 RyanDeSanto wrote: So there's no confusion, my comment about retribution was not meant to indicate favor in either direction. It was more a theoretical proposition that probably did not belong in my post to begin with. That said, its probably best not to leave this open ended. I can assure everyone that Katu will no longer be a representative of Playhem, and seemingly shouldn't have been for some time.
Good to see that you have taken this event so seriously. Thank you for Playhem, thank you for supporting E-Sports, and thank you for agreeing that it need remain professional.
I don't agree with Katu's actions. I think as a caster you should never accuse someone of cheating in any form, unless you see something obvious like warping in immortals. Regardless if this is a paid gig or amateur for Katu, you still need to have a respectful attitude towards the players, the viewers, and the company you are casting for. The apologies I've seen from Katu, in my opinion, seem to be apologizing for the way fans are taking his actions and not for the actions himself.
I am very happy to see Playhem's response in offering to sponsor Dragon for IPL4, and Playhem as a company is attempting to make things right. I think what Playhem is doing is good and hope they continue with their tournaments and grow bigger and better. Thouhg I hope in the future they put more emphasis on watching their casters cast, and ensure they are acting professionally.
I will keep the actions of Katu and Playhem as separate and distinct. I will continue to support Playhem. Until I see what I feel to be a sincere apology on Katu's part I will no longer watch his casting.
On February 29 2012 02:33 Vragak wrote: Thouhg I hope in the future they put more emphasis on watching their casters cast, and ensure they are acting professionally.
i can asure you of that its always atleast 1 admin listening/watching the stream
On February 28 2012 16:30 PlayhemTV wrote: Hi everyone (and reddit),
I want to clear up a few things about what happened tonight, and explain the full details to those who may have missed some of it and only joined part way through.
Before I start, please be aware that I do not agree with the way Katu acted and we agree that he handled the situation badly, however I want to stress more than anything that Katu did not at any point actually believe Dragon was cheating. I want everyone to know this above all else because Dragon should not be dragged into this, he was not stream cheating and did nothing wrong.
What happened: Dragon ended up on our stream as he has many times in the past, his viewers often multi-view our stream with his and so we got a large influx of viewers entering chat. Dragon's fans began criticizing Katu and his co-caster heavily during the cast and this later escalated into insults and trolling to which Katu responded by "trolling" them back. The members in chat didn't take well to this and began taking what he was saying to heart and further insulting Katu, unfortunately Katu did not step away from the situation but got caught up trying to incite the viewers with intentionally ridiculous claims (eventually hinting at him stream cheating as a cause for what we already knew was just bad lag on Dragon's part) from which point chat digressed to name calling, death threats, and pitch forks; chat became entirely unmanageable and things went down hill fast.
I want to stress again, while what Katu said was disrespectful and unprofessional, and he handled the situation very poorly, he did not actually think Dragon was cheating, or sincerely mean the other remarks he was making, they were all directed at angering the people flaming him in chat.
It's extremely unfortunate that the games we saw tonight were tarnished with childish arguments and poor behavior on our part, but what's done is done and we can't undo what transpired. Normally, respect for the players is our highest rule and one of the few we enforce with time-outs in chat, and having an incident like this occur was very out of character for how our casts normally transpire. If you were a first time viewer tonight I cannot blame you if you don't return to our stream, however I want to ask that everyone can try to put this behind us and give us a chance to improve our mistakes in the future.
From everyone that works on the production behind the PlayhemTV stream to the viewers, followers, fans, and players in our tournaments: we hope you'll accept our sincerest apologies and know that we recognize the mistakes that we made and don't intend to let them happen again.
Are you serious? No way that this apology is accepted. Trolling or not, he was way out of line. This is who Katu is not just from this cast but from previous casts. You guys run a good event, but it is tarnished by him. Will not watch a Playhem stream until you realize that he is no good for you. :|
Wait wait wait. Are you telling me if you go to a store and an employee swears at you, you would rather have that employee fired instead of receiving $1000? Theoretical example of course, but don't you think you are taking this a bit too personally? An employee made a mistake and the company is owing up to it BIG time. Considering this level of response they will without a doubt have an internal discussion about this and I highly doubt anything of this nature will occur again or it will have serious repercussions. A start-up business can't afford either bad PR or to be throwing money out the window every time someone screws up.
I would say its more like if an employee accused you of shop lifting in front of the rest of the poeple in the store. I would take the 1000 and in most cases they would get fired seeing as in most places its against policy to stop someone and accuse them of shoplifting.
On February 28 2012 16:30 PlayhemTV wrote: Hi everyone (and reddit),
I want to clear up a few things about what happened tonight, and explain the full details to those who may have missed some of it and only joined part way through.
Before I start, please be aware that I do not agree with the way Katu acted and we agree that he handled the situation badly, however I want to stress more than anything that Katu did not at any point actually believe Dragon was cheating. I want everyone to know this above all else because Dragon should not be dragged into this, he was not stream cheating and did nothing wrong.
What happened: Dragon ended up on our stream as he has many times in the past, his viewers often multi-view our stream with his and so we got a large influx of viewers entering chat. Dragon's fans began criticizing Katu and his co-caster heavily during the cast and this later escalated into insults and trolling to which Katu responded by "trolling" them back. The members in chat didn't take well to this and began taking what he was saying to heart and further insulting Katu, unfortunately Katu did not step away from the situation but got caught up trying to incite the viewers with intentionally ridiculous claims (eventually hinting at him stream cheating as a cause for what we already knew was just bad lag on Dragon's part) from which point chat digressed to name calling, death threats, and pitch forks; chat became entirely unmanageable and things went down hill fast.
I want to stress again, while what Katu said was disrespectful and unprofessional, and he handled the situation very poorly, he did not actually think Dragon was cheating, or sincerely mean the other remarks he was making, they were all directed at angering the people flaming him in chat.
It's extremely unfortunate that the games we saw tonight were tarnished with childish arguments and poor behavior on our part, but what's done is done and we can't undo what transpired. Normally, respect for the players is our highest rule and one of the few we enforce with time-outs in chat, and having an incident like this occur was very out of character for how our casts normally transpire. If you were a first time viewer tonight I cannot blame you if you don't return to our stream, however I want to ask that everyone can try to put this behind us and give us a chance to improve our mistakes in the future.
From everyone that works on the production behind the PlayhemTV stream to the viewers, followers, fans, and players in our tournaments: we hope you'll accept our sincerest apologies and know that we recognize the mistakes that we made and don't intend to let them happen again.
Are you serious? No way that this apology is accepted. Trolling or not, he was way out of line. This is who Katu is not just from this cast but from previous casts. You guys run a good event, but it is tarnished by him. Will not watch a Playhem stream until you realize that he is no good for you. :|
Wait wait wait. Are you telling me if you go to a store and an employee swears at you, you would rather have that employee fired instead of receiving $1000? Theoretical example of course, but don't you think you are taking this a bit too personally? An employee made a mistake and the company is owing up to it BIG time. Considering this level of response they will without a doubt have an internal discussion about this and I highly doubt anything of this nature will occur again or it will have serious repercussions. A start-up business can't afford either bad PR or to be throwing money out the window every time someone screws up.
I would say its more like if an employee accused you of shop lifting in front of the rest of the poeple in the store. I would take the 1000 and in most cases they would get fired seeing as in most places its against policy to stop someone and accuse them of shoplifting.
No it isn't, if you work in a store and accuse someone they can: A)show they don't have nothing or B)wait for police to be checked by them
IMO Dragon has a bad reputation that almost no one knew and Katu is a nice guy that does alot more for us then dragon imo, Rather have 1 katu then 20 more dragons so i won't kill him yet.. He was wrong but just let it be.. i think he understood and won't do it again!
Just so you guys know, someone asked Dragon in chat just now how he felt about the ordeal. He said it was fine, and that he understood it was a joke.
If the player being directly BM-ed doesn't care, how can you guys? Especially now that a dedicated caster is out of his gig. It would be like if a SC player got kicked out of a tournament for suspicious activity. Something considered taboo to the community happened, and the person was ostracized because of it. But, from accounts of Ryan the stream chat was being extremely inflammatory, and this should at least be considered.
Yes, Dragon has a sketchy past. Any cursory glance at his liquipedia shows that stream cheating was the issue. I knew this before I really started watching Dragon's stream.
TL;DR: Dragon is over, you should get over it. Ironic Dragon's fans don't seem to realize the parallels which should chill them out. Dragon's past is pretty easy to figure out, don't be mad we love him anyway. Lets move on.
Wasn't it in the NASL where Gretorp make some side comment about Dragon? I could swear this happened, but I'm not 100% sure, so if anyone could back me up that'd be cool. If not, I guess not. If he did: Where was the outrage?
EDIT2: Edit 1 wasn't really relevant, it was nowhere as BM as Katu was.
Edit: @Shell It's only a minority now that don't know of Dragon's past, it's been posted/dicussed/referred to countless times. Don't say "us" when your unable to refer to everyone. I bet a lot of people didn't know who Katu was till this recent drama. You could say Dragon does more for us than Katu, which would be streaming 8+ hours a day giving us entertainment. But then that's like comparing apples to oranges.
I commend Playhem and Ryan for taking this situation seriously. In any other entertainment venue this would be handled similarly with the removal of said person and some sort of compensation.
If I was a caster, biased opinions should not be allowed or accusations of cheating for the sake of "trolling". Dragon was scolded in the semi-finals for his 6CC build and that his greedy play should be punished, calling it mindless, etc... The casting seemed very one sided. I think casters can make light of the crazy situation where Dragon builds 6CC's but not to say his play is "obnoxious", and other put-down terms over his style of play. Then in the finals, when Dragon was clearly experiencing lag Katu immediately says he is cheating due to his past and how could he know to build a factory or move his CC in front of his main block. He was lagging, he couldn't even do anything, and he even started building a 3rd CC, no one who saw a roach rush would go 3CC's. The baseless accusation was what, personally, made me extremely angry over what was being said. Then he had the audacity to say (AND I QUOTE), "Dude, I hope they get mad, eat it. If they can't handle the truth then they can keep living in their fantasy world." Troll or not that is not only disrespectful to the community but to Dragon and really everyone.
I was there and watched both streams. Troll or not it was very unprofessional, and you cannot represent a tournament/company that wishes to further itself in the SC2 community and grow e-sports. Ryan you get how to run a business and company, and you are awesome for it. I only hope this hasn't damaged Playhem to unrepairable measures.
I'll be continuing to watch Playhem, I wish you all the best Ryan you handled this with A+ class.
EDIT: @Shell - No one is saying that you shouldn't mention his past, what is being said that he is used it to make baseless accusations during said match, when clearly he was lagging on his own stream. Then calling purposely laughing at the whole situation like it was a joke to make baseless cheating accusations. During sport broadcasts you think if someone said a Baseball player is using steroids they would not be fired and legal actions taken? We need to be realistic here.
Double EDIT: Here is the transcript:
Katu: Apparently Dragon is lagging like crazy and that's because he's lagging like crazy that he lost, not because he went for 3 command centers versus a roach all-in. Bonk: No ... no that's ... Katu: And you know what? Like, I'm not accusing him of stream cheating but I just want to put this out there all right, if he's just randomly starting to lag now, think about reasons why he'd start lagging. Just saying, just saying. I'm not even implying that all right, I don't want to say that he's stream cheating cause he might not be, but Dragon is known for this kind of stuff and I'm just saying, why would he lag all of a sudden, just saying. Bonk: You are making them so mad Katu: Dude, I hope they get mad, eat it. If they can't handle the truth then they can keep living in their fantasy world. [...] [Chat starts Raging] Bonk: Oh my god. Katu: This is awesome. Bonk: How am I getting dragged in your ... Katu: Dude, do these people know why Dragon doesn't go to a ? That's because the guy's banned cause he ch... Ok, it was never released what happened, but essentially this is the gist all right guys Bonk: Ohhh... wait. Katu: So something happened, we don't know what it is cause no one released what it was that happened, but he's now not allowed to play any more and that's why he's not on Slayers, all right. Bonk: I'd just like to separate my name from your name. Katu: No, fine, I don't care Bonk get away I don't care, I'm just stating the truth. [Chat rages some more] Katu: It's pretty good man, I'm pretty proud of myself I gotta say.
I watch Playhem from time to time and I enjoy their casts, but the cast last night was just despicable. It's not the accusing that made me mad. It was the fact that throughout the tourney that was casted, the casters kept BM'ing his play style and calling him obnoxious. They kept slandering him and was so biased, then the whole accusations come up and made the viewers mad. Not only it made us mad, but he goes on and provoke us even more. Then around 4:22 of the vod he "apologizes" but then chuckles while doing it, how sincere is that?
As for Katu's punishment, I think he should just be suspended for a while and let him think about his actions. Plus a sincere apology. Everyone makes mistakes, it's forgivable.
On February 28 2012 14:25 deathgod6 wrote: These casters are so unprofessional. On Dragon's stream, he was clearly lagging badly. However, he did not ask for pause or say anything and tried to calm himself saying it was okay. He was just making the best of the situation and was too proud or maybe unclear whether it was okay to ask for spectators to leave or whatever. Viewers of Dragon's stream then were saying on Playhem's chat that Dragon was lagging.
Upon reading this, Katu says "Yah, he lost apparently because of lag, not because of building three CC's against a roach all-in. *snickers* Even if he did lag, and I'm not implying stream cheating, what are reasons he would lag?" Katu later goes on and just blatantly implies that Dragon was stream cheating and using his past history as evidence, even though the build Dragon did during the game wouldn't make any sense if he was. I don't want to say any specific names, but there are other professional SC2 players currently who have a history with cheating but have fixed their ways and are revered players.
Katu then forgets about actually casting the second game and reads the chat instead, laughing at how angry people are at how he trashed Dragon. Then he mockingly says that he might as well officially state that Dragon is stream cheating. He then laughs during the cast and types in the Playhem.tv chat strings of "HAHAHAHA". He finds that his ego is more important than acting like a professional caster.
As a long time member of TL, I find that this episode of casting is extremely disrespectful and childish.
When a player is suffering from lag while streaming their play, why is it the caster's responsibility to glance at chat (a common place for people to state facts such as "Day[9] Died") and then pause the game? In any other tournament environment (the standard everyone is currently upholding Katu to) it is the player's responsibility to request pauses.
Also, I don't think calling for Katu to kill himself, or to be killed, etc. is the proper way to go about solving this issue. Something this event has proven is that Dragon has a huge portion of very immature fans (something I think to be brought about by the nature of his play). Furthermore, Playhem is currently streaming another show which is being completely derailed by Dragon's fans. If you want to accuse someone of unprofessional-ism, try to do it in a professional way.
As someone who employs Katu for multiple events, I have spoken to him and warned him that anything like that is completely unacceptable in my events. However, I will not be suspending his casting for any of my events as he is, despite one moment of rash behavior, one of the best casters around. I think something people need to realize that everyone makes mistakes and overall, Katu is still a great caster.
Dude, you just called 4k average people of dragon´s stream inmature? People in chat are silly? That people is the one that make your show possible.
Fans don´t have to be professional because they are not professionals and we dont have to complain in a professional way, we are not being payed as katu was. Fans saying they want katu to be killed is obviously a way to show their rage of someone making laugh at them, you are talking like if any fan want katu to be really death and that´s soo silly.
You just don´t want your show to loose caché because you have being traditionaly using a caster that revealed to be a very bad one. By the way, how is your show called??? I would like to know in wich show the fans are treated as silly money-bags.
On February 29 2012 03:22 Taiko88 wrote: I commend Playhem and Ryan for taking this situation seriously. In any other entertainment venue this would be handled similarly with the removal of said person and some sort of compensation.
If I was a caster, biased opinions should not be allowed or accusations of cheating for the sake of "trolling". Dragon was scolded in the semi-finals for his 6CC build and that his greedy play should be punished, calling it mindless, etc... The casting seemed very one sided. I think casters can make light of the crazy situation where Dragon builds 6CC's but not to say his play is "obnoxious", and other put-down terms over his style of play. Then in the finals, when Dragon was clearly experiencing lag Katu immediately says he is cheating due to his past and how could he know to build a factory or move his CC in front of his main block. He was lagging, he couldn't even do anything, and he even started building a 3rd CC, no one who saw a roach rush would go 3CC's. The baseless accusation was what, personally, made me extremely angry over what was being said. Then he had the audacity to say (AND I QUOTE), "Dude, I hope they get mad, eat it. If they can't handle the truth then they can keep living in their fantasy world." Troll or not that is not only disrespectful to the community but to Dragon and really everyone.
I was there and watched both streams. Troll or not it was very unprofessional, and you cannot represent a tournament/company that wishes to further itself in the SC2 community and grow e-sports. Ryan you get how to run a business and company, and you are awesome for it. I only hope this hasn't damaged Playhem to unrepairable measures.
I'll be continuing to watch Playhem, I wish you all the best Ryan you handled this with A+ class.
EDIT: @Shell - No one is saying that you shouldn't mention his past, what is being said that he is used it to make baseless accusations during said match, when clearly he was lagging on his own stream. Then calling purposely laughing at the whole situation like it was a joke to make baseless cheating accusations. During sport broadcasts you think if someone said a Baseball player is using steroids they would not be fired and legal actions taken? We need to be realistic here.
Double EDIT: Here is the transcript:
Katu: Apparently Dragon is lagging like crazy and that's because he's lagging like crazy that he lost, not because he went for 3 command centers versus a roach all-in. Bonk: No ... no that's ... Katu: And you know what? Like, I'm not accusing him of stream cheating but I just want to put this out there all right, if he's just randomly starting to lag now, think about reasons why he'd start lagging. Just saying, just saying. I'm not even implying that all right, I don't want to say that he's stream cheating cause he might not be, but Dragon is known for this kind of stuff and I'm just saying, why would he lag all of a sudden, just saying. Bonk: You are making them so mad Katu: Dude, I hope they get mad, eat it. If they can't handle the truth then they can keep living in their fantasy world. [...] [Chat starts Raging] Bonk: Oh my god. Katu: This is awesome. Bonk: How am I getting dragged in your ... Katu: Dude, do these people know why Dragon doesn't go to a ? That's because the guy's banned cause he ch... Ok, it was never released what happened, but essentially this is the gist all right guys Bonk: Ohhh... wait. Katu: So something happened, we don't know what it is cause no one released what it was that happened, but he's now not allowed to play any more and that's why he's not on Slayers, all right. Bonk: I'd just like to separate my name from your name. Katu: No, fine, I don't care Bonk get away I don't care, I'm just stating the truth. [Chat rages some more] Katu: It's pretty good man, I'm pretty proud of myself I gotta say.
I think it's hilarious that people are still saying Katu should be fired or threatening they will never watch again if he is a caster quite literally hours after Playhem announced they cut ties with him. Speaks to how seriously you should take some people who clearly haven't taken the time to actually find out what happened and just like grabbing their pitchforks and pointing them at someone. This is somebody’s career, if you are going to try and run it into the ground at least try and understand why you are doing it.
Vod is here if you haven't seen it http://www.twitch.tv/playhemtv/b/310016388 Stuff starts going down at about 5:00 after the first game finished and stops when the second game starts. He then issues two on-air apologies, one after the second game and then another at 29:30, which to me sound sincere. I thought even when it happened it was pretty obvious he wasn’t being serious, but that’s just my opinion.
Also, for some people who don't know about Dragons past before he started making funny faces on stream, he had to apologize to oGs for maphacking, streamcheating and match fixing, got kicked out of Werra before it disband for cheating and both he and Mr. Chae had to release a statement because the Korean fans were angry he was allowed to play in the GSL. As per http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Dragon#Controversy
Bottom line, he was joking around playing off Dragons less than squeeky clean past and went a bit too far, but it hardly deserves all this, and actually firing him is a bit of a joke.
On February 28 2012 16:30 PlayhemTV wrote: Hi everyone (and reddit),
I want to clear up a few things about what happened tonight, and explain the full details to those who may have missed some of it and only joined part way through.
Before I start, please be aware that I do not agree with the way Katu acted and we agree that he handled the situation badly, however I want to stress more than anything that Katu did not at any point actually believe Dragon was cheating. I want everyone to know this above all else because Dragon should not be dragged into this, he was not stream cheating and did nothing wrong.
What happened: Dragon ended up on our stream as he has many times in the past, his viewers often multi-view our stream with his and so we got a large influx of viewers entering chat. Dragon's fans began criticizing Katu and his co-caster heavily during the cast and this later escalated into insults and trolling to which Katu responded by "trolling" them back. The members in chat didn't take well to this and began taking what he was saying to heart and further insulting Katu, unfortunately Katu did not step away from the situation but got caught up trying to incite the viewers with intentionally ridiculous claims (eventually hinting at him stream cheating as a cause for what we already knew was just bad lag on Dragon's part) from which point chat digressed to name calling, death threats, and pitch forks; chat became entirely unmanageable and things went down hill fast.
I want to stress again, while what Katu said was disrespectful and unprofessional, and he handled the situation very poorly, he did not actually think Dragon was cheating, or sincerely mean the other remarks he was making, they were all directed at angering the people flaming him in chat.
It's extremely unfortunate that the games we saw tonight were tarnished with childish arguments and poor behavior on our part, but what's done is done and we can't undo what transpired. Normally, respect for the players is our highest rule and one of the few we enforce with time-outs in chat, and having an incident like this occur was very out of character for how our casts normally transpire. If you were a first time viewer tonight I cannot blame you if you don't return to our stream, however I want to ask that everyone can try to put this behind us and give us a chance to improve our mistakes in the future.
From everyone that works on the production behind the PlayhemTV stream to the viewers, followers, fans, and players in our tournaments: we hope you'll accept our sincerest apologies and know that we recognize the mistakes that we made and don't intend to let them happen again.
Are you serious? No way that this apology is accepted. Trolling or not, he was way out of line. This is who Katu is not just from this cast but from previous casts. You guys run a good event, but it is tarnished by him. Will not watch a Playhem stream until you realize that he is no good for you. :|
Wait wait wait. Are you telling me if you go to a store and an employee swears at you, you would rather have that employee fired instead of receiving $1000? Theoretical example of course, but don't you think you are taking this a bit too personally? An employee made a mistake and the company is owing up to it BIG time. Considering this level of response they will without a doubt have an internal discussion about this and I highly doubt anything of this nature will occur again or it will have serious repercussions. A start-up business can't afford either bad PR or to be throwing money out the window every time someone screws up.
I would say its more like if an employee accused you of shop lifting in front of the rest of the poeple in the store. I would take the 1000 and in most cases they would get fired seeing as in most places its against policy to stop someone and accuse them of shoplifting.
No it isn't, if you work in a store and accuse someone they can: A)show they don't have nothing or B)wait for police to be checked by them
IMO Dragon has a bad reputation that almost no one knew and Katu is a nice guy that does alot more for us then dragon imo, Rather have 1 katu then 20 more dragons so i won't kill him yet.. He was wrong but just let it be.. i think he understood and won't do it again!
Ive worked in a few retail stores before and in every store it was against policy for floor associates to confront and/or detain the alleged shoplifter( and technically there not shoplifting until they leave the store) so to confront someone who may or may not be stealing and your wrong you potentially have a lawsuit on your hands and ive seen it before on the news of people suing store for falsely accusing someone of shoplifting.
On February 29 2012 03:54 Cygnus-X1 wrote: I think it's hilarious that people are still saying Katu should be fired or threatening they will never watch again if he is a caster quite literally hours after Playhem announced they cut ties with him. Speaks to how seriously you should take some people who clearly haven't taken the time to actually find out what happened and just like grabbing their pitchforks and pointing them at someone. This is somebody’s career, if you are going to try and run it into the ground at least try and understand why you are doing it.
Vod is here if you haven't seen it http://www.twitch.tv/playhemtv/b/310016388 Stuff starts going down at about 5:00 after the first game finished and stops when the second game starts. He then issues two on-air apologies, one after the second game and then another at 29:30, which to me sound sincere. I thought even when it happened it was pretty obvious he wasn’t being serious, but that’s just my opinion.
Also, for some people who don't know about Dragons past before he started making funny faces on stream, he had to apologize to oGs for maphacking, streamcheating and match fixing, got kicked out of Werra before it disband for cheating and both he and Mr. Chae had to release a statement because the Korean fans were angry he was allowed to play in the GSL. As per http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Dragon#Controversy
Bottom line, he was joking around playing off Dragons less than squeeky clean past and went a bit too far, but it hardly deserves all this, and actually firing him is a bit of a joke.
Say the truth while the 99% dont know it -> lose job. Happens all the time in todays world saddly. Just look at the politicans all around the world.
On February 28 2012 21:44 RyanDeSanto wrote: So there's no confusion, my comment about retribution was not meant to indicate favor in either direction. It was more a theoretical proposition that probably did not belong in my post to begin with. That said, its probably best not to leave this open ended. I can assure everyone that Katu will no longer be a representative of Playhem, and seemingly shouldn't have been for some time.
There is justice in the world.
Finally, that smug "Trolling" zero gameawareness caster is gone.
Wow it's so funny that people are not getting this. "oh this blew way out of proportion." "oh we'll, idra and others accuse ttone for cheating, why aren't they punished?"
Helloooooo derps! The difference is Katu is a CASTER, an analyst, not a fellow peer. His job as a aster is to analyze the game and not slander a player for his past mistakes. If the community wants esports to be recognized as a serious, respectable event then this type of biased, immature shenanigans cannot be tolerated. Yea casters like Day9 poke fun of players occasional, but what Katu has done is a whole different league. Watch the VODs and decide if this type of behavior is allowed in a the professional sports scene. If you don't mind this type of behavior from Katu, that's fine but don't say it's esports.
On February 29 2012 03:54 Cygnus-X1 wrote: I think it's hilarious that people are still saying Katu should be fired or threatening they will never watch again if he is a caster quite literally hours after Playhem announced they cut ties with him. Speaks to how seriously you should take some people who clearly haven't taken the time to actually find out what happened and just like grabbing their pitchforks and pointing them at someone. This is somebody’s career, if you are going to try and run it into the ground at least try and understand why you are doing it.
Vod is here if you haven't seen it http://www.twitch.tv/playhemtv/b/310016388 Stuff starts going down at about 5:00 after the first game finished and stops when the second game starts. He then issues two on-air apologies, one after the second game and then another at 29:30, which to me sound sincere. I thought even when it happened it was pretty obvious he wasn’t being serious, but that’s just my opinion.
Also, for some people who don't know about Dragons past before he started making funny faces on stream, he had to apologize to oGs for maphacking, streamcheating and match fixing, got kicked out of Werra before it disband for cheating and both he and Mr. Chae had to release a statement because the Korean fans were angry he was allowed to play in the GSL. As per http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Dragon#Controversy
Bottom line, he was joking around playing off Dragons less than squeeky clean past and went a bit too far, but it hardly deserves all this, and actually firing him is a bit of a joke.
If you read beyond the 2 lines of what he said it became apparent, blatantly in fact that he was trying to piss people off. Not only with a lack of knowledge on the subject, but he wasn't even funny with his, "Trolling" it was just shit talking.
I seriously want to punch every idiot in the face that says, "I'm not trying to imply it, but" or "I'm just saying." Are you so fucking brain dead that you don't know what actual subtlety is? HERP DERP.
Laughing like a complete douchebag too and enthusiastically talking about Dragon's cheating past, lmao such a joke.
Bonk was even nudging Katu to cut that shit out, "Can I just like seperate my name from yours? (Because I don't want to look like a complete idiot)."
He doesn't fucking apologize either...... are you serious? You consider that sidestepping rhetoric a fucking apology? Pathetic.
He essentially says that he's sorry people, "Misunderstood" what he said. Later when the chat is disabled and his fellow playhem co-workers and distancing themselves from what Katu said, Katu is all like, "wtf I can't believe you guys aren't backing me on this."
So ya, he's not sorry, stop defending your douchebag caster.
I'm a little late to the party it seems, but I'd just like to state I've enjoyed the Playhem dailies a lot, and was rather distressed to see the comments made by Katu.
However, the response by Ryan DeSanto has been rapid and very effective. It's effective and rapid responses like this that build brand loyalty among viewers. In the future, I can honestly state that if I'm in a situation where I'm in a toss up of what stream to watch, I'll probably choose Playhem, knowing that the business is headed by individuals who wish the best for the community as a whole.
Another thing is this reminds me of when Artosis talked on State of the Game about how sometimes players would bash him in the lobbies--something about how tastosis delays the game. Anyways, Artosis would get rubbed the wrong way but still trucks on and casts the game professionally and has to be unbiased to the player that just bashed him in lobby.
The point is artosis's feelings didn't get to him, and Katu has no excuse, even If he accidentally mistook counter arguments as trolling in the chat room. Can't handle the heat? Get out the kitchen then.
Also: fuck typing on the iPhone and it's retarded spell check suggestions
On February 28 2012 23:20 KatuStarcraft wrote: This was posted in the reddit thread, though it will likely get buried so I re-post here.
Hello SC2 community,
First and foremost I'd like to apologize once again, and clarify in lieu of some of the comments here, that I did apologize last night not only on stream but I also approached a translator who communicated for me to Dragon my apologies and reasoning.
First I would like to say that trolling is not a professional way to act, though, it can be fun and in person I do it constantly, on air more rarely, but in both cases, I always do it for a laugh and never to tear anyone down. Last night I had a lapse in judgement, thinking at the time that it would be funny to make comments which were inappropriate. I sincerely apologize for making these comments, and any negative impact it had on Dragon.
At the time, I unfortunately did not realize the kind of outrage I was creating. As I'm casting I glance quickly at the chat to look for any audio or video/overlay problems and then get back to the cast. Through these glances I did not appreciate the impact of my comments and thought it to be the usual minority of people who are either trying to stir things up or trolling right back. Bonk who was co-casting tried to warn me as he had his eye on the chat a lot more than I did, however, I did not understand.
So instead of clarifying immediately I just kept it going, unbeknownst to me, simply fueling the fire I had no intention of starting.
Finally, during a game I saw some comments made by co-casters which made no sense, considering the way I thought this was going and then I took a more than 2 second glance at the chat and started to realize what was happening. I was incredulous at first, truly stunned, I couldn't believe the way this had actually gone and I tried to apologize but it was too late. If you watched the video, you'll notice that I am rather calm about what I'm saying and nonchalant about the comments from chat. I really did not understand how South everything had gone.
I hope this clarifies things a bit, though I likely hope in vain. I do want to state that the things I said were from me, and my own mistakes, and that playhem has the best casters I've ever had the privilege to work with, who shouldn't all be painted with this brush.
To all those of you who tried to explain and continued to support I sincerely thank you for your efforts though I was in the wrong for ever even trying to make such jokes.
This just goes to show that you wouldn't really care if there wasn't such a huge outburst in the community, the thing is that you showed complete disrespect to a player who decided to participate in YOUR tournament. That in itself is shameful.
Funny how you use trolling and not paying attention to the chat as excuses too, first of all, what the hell makes you think you should be TROLLING at your WORK? Also, seeing as how you reacted to the actual chat when you were flaming Dragon just shows that you're outright lying in your post...
If you're gonna make an apology, make sure it's actually an apology and not some bullshit message with the intention of justifying your actions.
Hope you learn something now that you got yourself fired.
On February 28 2012 16:30 PlayhemTV wrote: Hi everyone (and reddit),
I want to clear up a few things about what happened tonight, and explain the full details to those who may have missed some of it and only joined part way through.
Before I start, please be aware that I do not agree with the way Katu acted and we agree that he handled the situation badly, however I want to stress more than anything that Katu did not at any point actually believe Dragon was cheating. I want everyone to know this above all else because Dragon should not be dragged into this, he was not stream cheating and did nothing wrong.
What happened: Dragon ended up on our stream as he has many times in the past, his viewers often multi-view our stream with his and so we got a large influx of viewers entering chat. Dragon's fans began criticizing Katu and his co-caster heavily during the cast and this later escalated into insults and trolling to which Katu responded by "trolling" them back. The members in chat didn't take well to this and began taking what he was saying to heart and further insulting Katu, unfortunately Katu did not step away from the situation but got caught up trying to incite the viewers with intentionally ridiculous claims (eventually hinting at him stream cheating as a cause for what we already knew was just bad lag on Dragon's part) from which point chat digressed to name calling, death threats, and pitch forks; chat became entirely unmanageable and things went down hill fast.
I want to stress again, while what Katu said was disrespectful and unprofessional, and he handled the situation very poorly, he did not actually think Dragon was cheating, or sincerely mean the other remarks he was making, they were all directed at angering the people flaming him in chat.
It's extremely unfortunate that the games we saw tonight were tarnished with childish arguments and poor behavior on our part, but what's done is done and we can't undo what transpired. Normally, respect for the players is our highest rule and one of the few we enforce with time-outs in chat, and having an incident like this occur was very out of character for how our casts normally transpire. If you were a first time viewer tonight I cannot blame you if you don't return to our stream, however I want to ask that everyone can try to put this behind us and give us a chance to improve our mistakes in the future.
From everyone that works on the production behind the PlayhemTV stream to the viewers, followers, fans, and players in our tournaments: we hope you'll accept our sincerest apologies and know that we recognize the mistakes that we made and don't intend to let them happen again.
Are you serious? No way that this apology is accepted. Trolling or not, he was way out of line. This is who Katu is not just from this cast but from previous casts. You guys run a good event, but it is tarnished by him. Will not watch a Playhem stream until you realize that he is no good for you. :|
Wait wait wait. Are you telling me if you go to a store and an employee swears at you, you would rather have that employee fired instead of receiving $1000? Theoretical example of course, but don't you think you are taking this a bit too personally? An employee made a mistake and the company is owing up to it BIG time. Considering this level of response they will without a doubt have an internal discussion about this and I highly doubt anything of this nature will occur again or it will have serious repercussions. A start-up business can't afford either bad PR or to be throwing money out the window every time someone screws up.
Yes, because the same employee has been swearing at other customers as well while the company has been ignoring it until it has finally been brought to attention in public.
On February 28 2012 16:30 PlayhemTV wrote: Hi everyone (and reddit),
I want to clear up a few things about what happened tonight, and explain the full details to those who may have missed some of it and only joined part way through.
Before I start, please be aware that I do not agree with the way Katu acted and we agree that he handled the situation badly, however I want to stress more than anything that Katu did not at any point actually believe Dragon was cheating. I want everyone to know this above all else because Dragon should not be dragged into this, he was not stream cheating and did nothing wrong.
What happened: Dragon ended up on our stream as he has many times in the past, his viewers often multi-view our stream with his and so we got a large influx of viewers entering chat. Dragon's fans began criticizing Katu and his co-caster heavily during the cast and this later escalated into insults and trolling to which Katu responded by "trolling" them back. The members in chat didn't take well to this and began taking what he was saying to heart and further insulting Katu, unfortunately Katu did not step away from the situation but got caught up trying to incite the viewers with intentionally ridiculous claims (eventually hinting at him stream cheating as a cause for what we already knew was just bad lag on Dragon's part) from which point chat digressed to name calling, death threats, and pitch forks; chat became entirely unmanageable and things went down hill fast.
I want to stress again, while what Katu said was disrespectful and unprofessional, and he handled the situation very poorly, he did not actually think Dragon was cheating, or sincerely mean the other remarks he was making, they were all directed at angering the people flaming him in chat.
It's extremely unfortunate that the games we saw tonight were tarnished with childish arguments and poor behavior on our part, but what's done is done and we can't undo what transpired. Normally, respect for the players is our highest rule and one of the few we enforce with time-outs in chat, and having an incident like this occur was very out of character for how our casts normally transpire. If you were a first time viewer tonight I cannot blame you if you don't return to our stream, however I want to ask that everyone can try to put this behind us and give us a chance to improve our mistakes in the future.
From everyone that works on the production behind the PlayhemTV stream to the viewers, followers, fans, and players in our tournaments: we hope you'll accept our sincerest apologies and know that we recognize the mistakes that we made and don't intend to let them happen again.
Are you serious? No way that this apology is accepted. Trolling or not, he was way out of line. This is who Katu is not just from this cast but from previous casts. You guys run a good event, but it is tarnished by him. Will not watch a Playhem stream until you realize that he is no good for you. :|
Wait wait wait. Are you telling me if you go to a store and an employee swears at you, you would rather have that employee fired instead of receiving $1000? Theoretical example of course, but don't you think you are taking this a bit too personally? An employee made a mistake and the company is owing up to it BIG time. Considering this level of response they will without a doubt have an internal discussion about this and I highly doubt anything of this nature will occur again or it will have serious repercussions. A start-up business can't afford either bad PR or to be throwing money out the window every time someone screws up.
If an employee fucks up the customer involved should get a compensation and the employee a punishment, one doesn't go over the other.
An example would be if an employee sells a certain product for the price of X amount of money when it actually costs Y amount of money, the company must still live up to what the employee said even if it's a false number, atleast that's what any serious company would do. The employee gets punished accordingly afterwards (in this case, the employee gets fired and Dragon (the customer) gets a compensation in the form of an invite to IPL 4).
While the above example doesn't equal an employee swearing at a customer, what I'm trying to say is; if an employee screws up he gets a punishment AND the customer gets a compensation (or in my example, gets his deal with the employee honored).
Holy shit, people have too much time on their hands. This is such a non-issue, just put down your pitchforks and get on with your lives. Applaud Playhem for they way they have responded, back off Katu about what he did, and enjoy the next tournament they put on!
Listening to the VoD and not knowing who Katu was before this, I thought he was an above average caster that lacked humility and situational awareness. I await the interview where he convinces us that he Gets It.
I'll give everyone an example of how a professional caster handles things.
Moletrap, caster for GSL. Ever since he has been casting for GOM, he's been flamed, hated on, trolled by a part of the vocal community (gone on for almost a year). Yet, when do we ever see Moletrap react on live stream the same way Katu did? Never. For those who knew him back since BW, probably still has the same respect for him. Others may not.
This to me, feels like how things should have been handled by a professional. Instead of lashing out at the community and blaming the viewers for "trolling" him so he wanted to "troll" them back.
In the end, I think it's a good lesson for all aspiring professional casters out there since there are so many casters now to a point where we must decide what is requirement for a professional caster?
Went to bed feeling quite angry. Woke to read that RyanDeSanto and Playhem have handled this perfectly. Kudos to them - their prompt and appropriate action has restored my faith in Playhem and I shall be re-following their stream and continuing to respect the great work the remaining staff do with such enthusiasm.
On February 28 2012 21:44 RyanDeSanto wrote: So there's no confusion, my comment about retribution was not meant to indicate favor in either direction. It was more a theoretical proposition that probably did not belong in my post to begin with. That said, its probably best not to leave this open ended. I can assure everyone that Katu will no longer be a representative of Playhem, and seemingly shouldn't have been for some time.
I think firing Katu (as I understand this post) is kind of harsh the man made a big mistake I agree, but giving him another chance at this would hurt nobody as im sure he wants to continue casting for PlayhemTV
On February 28 2012 21:44 RyanDeSanto wrote: So there's no confusion, my comment about retribution was not meant to indicate favor in either direction. It was more a theoretical proposition that probably did not belong in my post to begin with. That said, its probably best not to leave this open ended. I can assure everyone that Katu will no longer be a representative of Playhem, and seemingly shouldn't have been for some time.
I think firing Katu (as I understand this post) is kind of harsh the man made a big mistake I agree, but giving him another chance at this would hurt nobody as im sure he wants to continue casting for PlayhemTV
Apparently this was his second chance. Don't really know the details though, but I've seen people mentioning some stuff he said on stream a few weeks ago about an unrelated matter.
On February 28 2012 21:44 RyanDeSanto wrote: I can assure everyone that Katu will no longer be a representative of Playhem, and seemingly shouldn't have been for some time.
I will now watch Playhem again. Can you reassure Bonk that none of this was his wrong and to continue being the great caster he is? Thanks.
I haven't made a decision yet as to whether or not I think Katu should be allowed to continue casting.
On the one hand, he made a mistake, and I hate to see people get crucified for a lapse in judgment that may not be repeated.
On the other hand, his actions were incredibly immature and unprofessional. Casting is an inherently public role, the purpose of which is twofold: (1) to follow the action/gameplay and discuss the strategy/tactics, and (2) to serve as representative of the organization putting on the event by acting professionally and connecting with the audience.
Katu completely failed in his obligations as a representative of Playhem -he was extremely unprofessional (insulting players and making unfounded accusations has no place in a professional cast), and he was intentionally antagonizing the audience (which is completely counter to Playhem's interests.) In the west, it's often true that casters, even more than players, act as the face and mouth of Starcraft as an e-sport. The conduct of our casters reflects on the community as a whole, and their professional conduct reflects on the legitimacy of Starcraft in mainstream media.
Now, this was just a small Playhem tournament, not an MLG, so it's not quite that big of a deal. Still, if I had been checking out Starcraft for the first time last night, I don't think Katu's conduct would have inspired me to stick around.
On February 29 2012 03:54 Cygnus-X1 wrote: I think it's hilarious that people are still saying Katu should be fired or threatening they will never watch again if he is a caster quite literally hours after Playhem announced they cut ties with him. Speaks to how seriously you should take some people who clearly haven't taken the time to actually find out what happened and just like grabbing their pitchforks and pointing them at someone. This is somebody’s career, if you are going to try and run it into the ground at least try and understand why you are doing it.
Vod is here if you haven't seen it http://www.twitch.tv/playhemtv/b/310016388 Stuff starts going down at about 5:00 after the first game finished and stops when the second game starts. He then issues two on-air apologies, one after the second game and then another at 29:30, which to me sound sincere. I thought even when it happened it was pretty obvious he wasn’t being serious, but that’s just my opinion.
Also, for some people who don't know about Dragons past before he started making funny faces on stream, he had to apologize to oGs for maphacking, streamcheating and match fixing, got kicked out of Werra before it disband for cheating and both he and Mr. Chae had to release a statement because the Korean fans were angry he was allowed to play in the GSL. As per http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Dragon#Controversy
Bottom line, he was joking around playing off Dragons less than squeeky clean past and went a bit too far, but it hardly deserves all this, and actually firing him is a bit of a joke.
If you read beyond the 2 lines of what he said it became apparent, blatantly in fact that he was trying to piss people off. Not only with a lack of knowledge on the subject, but he wasn't even funny with his, "Trolling" it was just shit talking.
I seriously want to punch every idiot in the face that says, "I'm not trying to imply it, but" or "I'm just saying." Are you so fucking brain dead that you don't know what actual subtlety is? HERP DERP.
Laughing like a complete douchebag too and enthusiastically talking about Dragon's cheating past, lmao such a joke.
Bonk was even nudging Katu to cut that shit out, "Can I just like seperate my name from yours? (Because I don't want to look like a complete idiot)."
He doesn't fucking apologize either...... are you serious? You consider that sidestepping rhetoric a fucking apology? Pathetic.
He essentially says that he's sorry people, "Misunderstood" what he said. Later when the chat is disabled and his fellow playhem co-workers and distancing themselves from what Katu said, Katu is all like, "wtf I can't believe you guys aren't backing me on this."
So ya, he's not sorry, stop defending your douchebag caster.
He was joking around, people thought he was serious, it wasn't funny, he apologized for the misunderstanding. I don't see what is incredibly offensive. There are some people above who were posting that Dragon was on his stream and that he thought it was a joke too while he confirmed he was going to IPL 4. The real joke is that some people are taking this way too seriously. If people are this upset with casters being somewhat rude to the players once in a while maybe they should stop watching GOM until they get Tastosis should apologize for all the casts of Legalmind, Butterflyeffect, early San and some of the others from the "jobber" era.
I have added playhem to my follow list and will tune in as often as I can. I have also disabled adblock on playhem, something I have only reserved for Grubby and dragon at this point. Thank you.
On February 29 2012 04:43 Dr_Jones wrote: Holy shit, people have too much time on their hands. This is such a non-issue, just put down your pitchforks and get on with your lives. Applaud Playhem for they way they have responded, back off Katu about what he did, and enjoy the next tournament they put on!
People in the Starcraft community get wayyyy too agitated over what really are insignificant things. These pitchfork-wielders need to take a break from the internet for a while and focus on something real of more importance.
On February 29 2012 05:10 FidoDido wrote: I'll give everyone an example of how a professional caster handles things.
Moletrap, caster for GSL. Ever since he has been casting for GOM, he's been flamed, hated on, trolled by a part of the vocal community (gone on for almost a year). Yet, when do we ever see Moletrap react on live stream the same way Katu did? Never. For those who knew him back since BW, probably still has the same respect for him. Others may not.
This to me, feels like how things should have been handled by a professional. Instead of lashing out at the community and blaming the viewers for "trolling" him so he wanted to "troll" them back.
In the end, I think it's a good lesson for all aspiring professional casters out there since there are so many casters now to a point where we must decide what is requirement for a professional caster?
Funny you say that because Moletrap is the only caster I can name that calls players "Scrubs" or "trash" on a regular basis.
On February 29 2012 04:43 Dr_Jones wrote: Holy shit, people have too much time on their hands. This is such a non-issue, just put down your pitchforks and get on with your lives. Applaud Playhem for they way they have responded, back off Katu about what he did, and enjoy the next tournament they put on!
People in the Starcraft community get wayyyy too agitated over what really are insignificant things. These pitchfork-wielders need to take a break from the internet for a while and focus on something real of more importance.
Although its ironic because all this has done is make him even more popular. Earlier he had more viewers than White ra, incontrol, and destiny combined.
On February 29 2012 04:43 Dr_Jones wrote: Holy shit, people have too much time on their hands. This is such a non-issue, just put down your pitchforks and get on with your lives. Applaud Playhem for they way they have responded, back off Katu about what he did, and enjoy the next tournament they put on!
People in the Starcraft community get wayyyy too agitated over what really are insignificant things. These pitchfork-wielders need to take a break from the internet for a while and focus on something real of more importance.
Although its ironic because all this has done is make him even more popular. Earlier he had more viewers than White ra, incontrol, and destiny combined.
Do you think people actually view Dragon in a negative light because of what the caster said? Seriously? LOL.
I just want to say what Ryan posted is the most generous gesture from Playhem and while I still do not think that this incident should reflect on Katu, Playhem completely making up for his mistake is incredible.
While i don't agree with all Katu has said, this thing got completely blown out of proportion by the Starcraft "community" which i think is a vocal minority that is hellbent on getting their way without adding anything of value.
I'm annoyed that you already had to cave in to the enormous amount of spam over a few silly remarks and let Katu go. It might seem that this is the right course of action to do damage control. I wonder though how many there are like me: Watching and enjoying Playhem (and other starcraft events) quietly, without joining in on all the trolling and drama.
Please reconsider letting Katu go. Give him a timeout or something, but don't let a bunch of vocal dramaholics take down a good (and probably hardworking) caster who actually works on adding something of value to e-sports.
I would like to say, I was watching live when it happened, and I was very disappointed that Katu would make such baseless accusations against Dragon. However, I would also like to say that Playhem's response to this "issue" is amazing, and extremely generous. This is definitely above and beyond what was required and truly shows the character of Playhem and their management staff. Also, I want to say that Katu deserves a second chance, I think it was stupid and inconsiderate what he did, but I believe that if he apologizes we (the community) should give him another shot. Dragon made the mistake of cheating or something that was similar (since we don't actually know what happened exactly) and has been given another chance. He's made a good show of it too, getting into GM and showing that he actually has a lot of skill, and I think Katu could turn right around and become an excellent starcraft caster.
While i don't agree with all Katu has said, this thing got completely blown out of proportion by the Starcraft "community" which i think is a vocal minority that is hellbent on getting their way without adding anything of value.
I'm annoyed that you already had to cave in to the enormous amount of spam over a few silly remarks and let Katu go. It might seem that this is the right course of action to do damage control. I wonder though how many there are like me: Watching and enjoying Playhem (and other starcraft events) quietly, without joining in on all the trolling and drama.
Please reconsider letting Katu go. Give him a timeout or something, but don't let a bunch of vocal dramaholics take down a good (and probably hardworking) caster who actually works on adding something of value to e-sports.
- A quiet majority (i hope).
Disagree. Reading the Ryan's comments, he's pretty clear that the Dragon incident wasn't the only consideration at play here, and that upon closer inspection, he thinks Katu committed a fireable sometime before yesterday.
I can understand Katu’s stance in that he was simply trying to troll the chat after their initial negative reactions to him, but it should also be recognized that this is particularly unprofessional of him. While I do not expect my casters to be completely unbiased the allegations brought against Dragon made me really angry.
As an avid follower of both PlayhemTV and of Dragon’s streams Dragon is one of the most creative, forward thinking, goofy and for these reasons interesting players in the Starcraft II community to watch. Watching him play as Zerg I’ve seen him drop two hatcheries in to the main base of a Terran player in the first few minutes of a game to completely confound them. In response to people stream cheating him, I have seen him play complete non-builds to combat them and pull off incredibly strange wins.
His training and highly entertaining streaming show his intentions of redeeming himself in the eyes of the Starcraft II community. He seems determined to wipe the marks from his name and this along with his playful attitude and distinctly experimental style make him a favorite for many.
For these reasons, when Katu made allegations about the stream cheating there was such a strong reaction from the community I believe, Dragon has been working tirelessly to distance himself from the negativity that has surrounded his name. In doing so he has earned himself a fiercely loyal following.
While I do not believe Katu should be fired for his statements I would like to see a more sincere apology from him than “sorry guys I was trolling.” I believe he, like Dragon deserves a second chance. I am elated to see Ryan one of Playhem’s founders reacting so strongly and sincerely. For this reason I will continue to loyally follow Playhem in the future and I urge that no one lynch Katu for a mistake. His response was disappointing, but it was a lapse in judgement and he is still a well-intentioned Starcraft enthusiast like the rest of us. Let us not forget that.
Can't wait... I'll start stream cheating now, get caught (or at least pretend to and make a conspiracy theory) get good at the game, play in a playhem get bashed by one of their better casters and then get paid to go a to a tournament.
I think actually that Playhem is making the right move by getting on dragon's good side. The slander that is Katu's uttering can't just be punished by the company... It isn't the first time a caster has said something stupid and granted this is the furthest I've seen someone go to "troll". I think unless there is definite proof that Dragon was by any means a cheater and kicked off slayers for it that katu shouldn't be reprimanded. But seeing as Dragon did this back before Slayers and he left slayers due to a working conflict there is no reason for Katu to say anything.
I also would like to point out, that stream cheating isn't against the rules of the game (or tournament for that matter) as it is the risk of streaming a real-time strategy game. Not to say that Dragon would, just saying there is no reason for a caster to bring it up.
On February 28 2012 20:35 RyanDeSanto wrote: Hi everyone,
I'm Ryan, one of the founders of Playhem. I'm sorry if the following is sloppy and disorganized -- It's after 3am and was just woken up to my phone pinging with all of the complaint emails we've received due to this incident. However, I think its imperative that I address this immediately.
First and foremost, I must express my sincerest apologies to Dragon, his fans, and our stream viewers that were subject to the distaste apparent in our broadcast tonight. There are no excuses for such behavior, intentions included. However, being a strong believer in the adage, "actions speak louder than words," I'd like to extend an offer to Dragon, and indirectly to his fans, in an attempt to make amends. If his schedule permits, it would be our pleasure to sponsor Dragon at IPL 4 in Vegas -- player pass, hotel, and flight included. We would love for him to represent Playhem at the event, but understand if his preference is otherwise. The offer stands regardless. I can't read or write Korean, so if someone who does would be kind enough to help me contact and communicate with him, please email me at rdesanto@playhem.com.
Over the past year we have found our home in the Starcraft 2 community, for which we are proud and grateful. Without the daily support our players and fans, we would cease to exist. I will admit, this situation was handled improperly, and my apology probably too late. And so, I understand if you ignore my appeal, but please do not let the actions of an individual be representative of Playhem as a whole. All-in-all there are nearly 30 of us who wake up every morning and work into the hours of night with the singular goal of making Playhem something special. If everyone can take a step back from what transpired tonight, I think our true intentions are clear. We are committed to providing quality entertainment to the e-sports community, players of all skills and spectators alike. We <3 e-sports and all those involved, wanting nothing more than to continue showing our support in any way we can.
That said, I do not know what the fair punishment is, yet. I will ask, if a reformed player previously fallen from grace deserves redemption, should a caster not as well? I suppose Katu holds the answer to this question, but ultimately you, the community, will be the judge.
Unfortunately, my role in Playhem distances me from our day to day operations and an active involvement in the e-sports community. Between leading a team of 20 developers, heading up business development, fundraising, and everything else that comes with running a start-up, I'm left with little time to engage in a passion that was the catalyst for founding this company. What's even more unfortunate, is that an event of this nature is what brings me back. I'm truly sorry that any of this happened.
holy. you sir are a master of community relations. That's really awesome what you're putting out there !
Lol oh Katu, You have no idea what you're talking about and shouldn't open your mouth. Get your facts straight and realise what you're representing as a caster for Playhem and the players you are casting. You made dragon look bad for no reason like a total moron, You made Playhem look bad for have you as a caster, And you made yourself look bad for being an immature rager who blamed Dragon for things he never even did. Are you going to say that Sleep was also a cheater because he left Slayers? You sound stupid, I was never a fan of you to begin with and don't plan to be one now.
I rather liked Katu's casting. I don't think you should try to appeal to what to think is the hivemind in this situation; I'd give Katu a break, but I wouldn't totally fire him. As Chill said, Katu was 100% a volunteer, and a really good caster overall in my opinion, and if every time someone like him fucks up we take out pitchforks even though the guy probably doesn't earn a cent doing this, we're gonna quickly run out of community casters.
While i don't agree with all Katu has said, this thing got completely blown out of proportion by the Starcraft "community" which i think is a vocal minority that is hellbent on getting their way without adding anything of value.
I'm annoyed that you already had to cave in to the enormous amount of spam over a few silly remarks and let Katu go. It might seem that this is the right course of action to do damage control. I wonder though how many there are like me: Watching and enjoying Playhem (and other starcraft events) quietly, without joining in on all the trolling and drama.
Please reconsider letting Katu go. Give him a timeout or something, but don't let a bunch of vocal dramaholics take down a good (and probably hardworking) caster who actually works on adding something of value to e-sports.
- A quiet majority (i hope).
I came here to say exactly this. I think a suspension or timeout is appropriate, but it seems a little harsh to completely ban a caster who has worked hard and dedicated himself. I will agree that Katu as made comments that put me off even prior to this, but I think that everyone deserves a second chance at some point. Despite my past misgivings, I cannot blame him for not changing prior to this incident because no one had told him that his behavior wasn't proper. I hope that Katu can pull himself up by the bootstraps and walk away from this a better caster and a better person and, most of all, I hope he gets a second chance.
On February 29 2012 04:43 Dr_Jones wrote: Holy shit, people have too much time on their hands. This is such a non-issue, just put down your pitchforks and get on with your lives. Applaud Playhem for they way they have responded, back off Katu about what he did, and enjoy the next tournament they put on!
People in the Starcraft community get wayyyy too agitated over what really are insignificant things. These pitchfork-wielders need to take a break from the internet for a while and focus on something real of more importance.
Although its ironic because all this has done is make him even more popular. Earlier he had more viewers than White ra, incontrol, and destiny combined.
Do you think people actually view Dragon in a negative light because of what the caster said? Seriously? LOL.
that is not up to you to decide. new comers take information off the casters, assuming that they do check whether dragon has stream cheat before, they would believe that is the reason why he is off Code A and why he is off SlayerS. Even if they know dragon cheated before, not all of them followed GSL, they wouldn't know about code A issues
He did play in Code A after he got exposed for the stream cheating, SlayerS picked him up AFTER he was discovered he stream cheats and Dragon left due to his work committement (be it true or not) but he isn't even known for stream cheating anymore
Plus, he was accusing Dragon for stream cheating at this moment. I think it is a serious issue that you shouldn't just look past and brush off.
I don't want to be extremely harsh on the caster because I didn't even know who he is and I am not a particular big fan of dragon because he plays terran but after watching the VOD, I feel that letting him off for any punishment would be a management failure.
Used to watch the PlayhemTV stream every night during the week. Sometimes left it in the background and just played something or browsed. Tried doing that again, but it's not fun anymore. Not going to watch the stream from now on and just look for the other streams listed under the 'NA Playhem Daily' calendar.
Really nice move by the Playhem management to offer such compensation to 'Dragon'. Too much in my opinion (the public apology should've been enough), but it's their choice in the end.
Really bad move to simply let the caster go, especially since it was done mostly due to the pressure received from the loud-minority.
All the best to Katu!
PS: So many people that seem to have registered only recently, especially for expressing their opinion on this matter. So nice of them to do this.
Guys just watch tonights Inside the Game episode, listen to the answers to Goatlust´s question and then think what just happened to Katu after one single screw-up (which wasnt even that big as Incontrol pointed out).
normally about this kind of thing i tend to feel quite strongly 1 way or the other, but about this one im just struggling to feel that this is a big deal. it comes across that people think the caster in question is a bit of a dick in general, but that seems like an internal problem for playhem almost unrelated from 1 specific incident. maybe its just because it was for a daily cup rather than something less frequent but i would imagine that most people will wake up tomorrow (including dragon) and just look forward to the next daily if they are the kind of people who watch it.
On February 29 2012 11:42 RusHXceL wrote: First Katu needs to sponsor dragon for IPL4 and not playhem
I heard face to face works great at Las Vegas for apologizing to Dragons
Edit: if katu doesnt do this Dragons will not be playing anymore Playhem tourneys at all.
Are you Dragon's manager or something? Because you should let him know he shouldn't be playing in anymore Playhem, considering he was doing the Euro one earlier.
Reddit witch-hunt just got someone fired, fantastic.
This is a complete joke and I really am disappointed in Playhem after this, I wasn't even aware of Katu and I still think being fired is completely over the top. Most of the drama was caused by the hivemind over at Reddit.It has been shown repeatedly that Reddit does not give a fuck about anyone, as long as it gets drama it can circle jerk over for a few days.
This whole situation was stupid and an overreaction by Dragon fans, and to see people being so happy to get someone fired like they accomplished something good makes me sad.
I hope Dragon stays true to his promise and declines the invitation, and Katu continues to cast and is successful at it, he was a pretty good caster and was very dedicated to it.
On February 29 2012 12:26 Laids wrote: Reddit witch-hunt just got someone fired, fantastic.
This is a complete joke and I really am disappointed in Playhem after this, I wasn't even aware of Katu and I still think being fired is completely over the top. Most of the drama was caused by the hivemind over at Reddit.It has been shown repeatedly that Reddit does not give a fuck about anyone, as long as it gets drama it can circle jerk over for a few days.
Congratulations for not reading the thread. Try to get more information before overreacting like you do now.
Pretty stupid move by Katu but I think Playhem went way overboard with the PR part of this. Obviously Katu needed a break but still pretty sad. My favorite playhem caster.
On February 29 2012 13:01 TORTOISE wrote: I glad the evil witch Katu was burned at the stake this glorious evening. May we never utter his name again except in contempt for what he had done.
A bit extreme, just a slight screw up simply does not warrant such an extreme response - he's a decent caster and losing him in esports would simply be losing talent.
He messed up big time, yes. But after hundreds of dedicated hours of casting for playhem, I think people are being way too harsh on him. Everyone makes big mistakes. Wouldn't you want forgiveness to do something you love?
I don't watch much playhem but, being a commentator requires a lot of hard work (especially for little or no money). I feel so bad for the guy. I hope he can take this as a step forward.
On February 29 2012 13:01 TORTOISE wrote: I glad the evil witch Katu was burned at the stake this glorious evening. May we never utter his name again except in contempt for what he had done.
A bit extreme, just a slight screw up simply does not warrant such an extreme response - he's a decent caster and losing him in esports would simply be losing talent.
Im not sure what to think abaut this community anymore. 90% of the interest of people goes into these witch-hunts. Its either a player doing something stupid that the community wants to sacrifice or its a representative. This time a caster.
Arent we here primarily to watch starcraftgames and enjoy the content that alot of people put in. I listened to the cast; tap on the wrist and move on? This community is starting to scare me seriously.
i dont get it the korean combat ex gets a little bm'd by casters and every one freaks out??? have you ever seen a gsl game when artosis and tastless think a player isnt up to snuff just as bad if not worse also dragon does have a history with cheating....
On February 29 2012 18:23 Senzei wrote: i dont get it the korean combat ex gets a little bm'd by casters and every one freaks out??? have you ever seen a gsl game when artosis and tastless think a player isnt up to snuff just as bad if not worse also dragon does have a history with cheating....
sorry for any spelling errors sent from my phone
It got me checking to see if Dragon cheated in the past, which is something I did not know and it should have been kept that way. That is what apologizing is for. Forgive and forget. Not forgive but keep reminding everyone.
Couldn't Katu just do a public apology and be suspended for a month? It's something that will be forgotten once he's back after a month, especially if he does a better job then before.
Meh, a caster had some opinions. I wish more people would get some exposure to the SF4 and MvC3 tourney commentators for comparison. I almost prefer that the SF and Marvel guys are less reserved in their criticism and dont have to act so universally lovey of all the players.. If they see a bad play or think something stupid is going on they call it out. Wish we got more of that in the SC2 scene.
On February 29 2012 22:09 Sennin wrote: Couldn't Katu just do a public apology and be suspended for a month? It's something that will be forgotten once he's back after a month, especially if he does a better job then before.
he did make an "apology" thread on reddit, but it was half-assed, and basically said, i am only apologizing because there's an outcry. I don't care, EAT IT.
I do not agree, it was simply the pressure of the loud minority, he said so himself that he was trolling at the time. I agree that a suspension would be much more suitable, especially because he was "trash talking" about Dragon, but how the loud minority trashes him so badly. It does not seem far to fire someone just because of a joke, and after he practically worked for hours for free, just to cast
Um...firing Katu was kind of harsh. I agree with what everyone else has been saying about just suspending him for a month or something as "punishment."
I'm a daily watcher, and Katu was one of the people who brought really good personality to Playhem. I do think that this was a mistake on his part and becoming a bit too biased (in the wrong way), and he may have been getting kind of cocky. But as long as he realizes he has to watch what he says, he would have learned his lesson right? But like someone else who may have suggested it, there could've been internal stuff going on that we aren't aware of.
Anyway, my 2-cents - as a Playhem regular - is that Katu was fun to listen to, and would like to see him given another chance.
On March 04 2012 03:57 namste wrote: Is it really this impossible to find the brackets for on going tournaments or do I just fail miserably? I just can't find them anywhere :D
I thought Playhem would have a word with their casters but apparently they're still being jackasses. I can't watch these tourneys anymore, today is the first time I've had to listen to Zoia and my god is that guy obnoxious. Okay regardless of whether you like ZvZ or not if you openly say "why are zerg players so bad" you just look like a jackass. What the heck is his problem? Figured Playhem would be turning over a new leaf but looks like they still have arrogant jerks that insult the very players they're casting. How does that make any sense? No, that wasn't a joke, and if it was that was the worst joke I've ever heard on a stream. If you want some decent casting watch literally any other stream because Playhem is still crap, and pretty much the only stream I've witnessed casters openly insulting their players.
On March 15 2012 05:27 Areon wrote: I thought Playhem would have a word with their casters but apparently they're still being jackasses. I can't watch these tourneys anymore, today is the first time I've had to listen to Zoia and my god is that guy obnoxious. Okay regardless of whether you like ZvZ or not if you openly say "why are zerg players so bad" you just look like a jackass. What the heck is his problem? Figured Playhem would be turning over a new leaf but looks like they still have arrogant jerks that insult the very players they're casting. How does that make any sense? No, that wasn't a joke, and if it was that was the worst joke I've ever heard on a stream. If you want some decent casting watch literally any other stream because Playhem is still crap, and pretty much the only stream I've witnessed casters openly insulting their players.
First of all thank you for the feed back its suprising how little people actually will post something. Firstly at the start of the cast I had said that ZvZ was my least favorite matchup. Everyone has one and it was brought up during a discussion Jorosar and I were having. From that moment on chat, my cocaster, and the admins were bringing up the amount of ZvZs that we were actually doing ending up being around 17. It was obvious trolling from everyone and I was going along with it. I was joking around with everyone and we were having a good time with it so I'm sorry you took it seriously. I know right someone saying LOL JUST KIDDING but hey thats the truth of it. I get paid less than a dollar per hour to cast I do this because I love it there is no way I would invest this much time into casting if I didn't love everything about it.
Regards to the statement of me saying "why are zerg players so bad". I am an analytical caster and I tend to be very blunt. My style focuses on pointing out the flaws in players builds so my viewers can see what mistakes players make and how to improve off of it. Now I remember when I said this and you can quote anything and make it seem bad out of context. However even in context it was still a little blunt. I come from BW where players played perfectly so when I look at people play SC2 I can tend to be a little harsh when I see the lower level players play. It is the main thing I am working towards improving myself as a caster. Most of the games we had casted that day were full of several mistakes that led to very back and forth games. I would like to state that when I had said this I had followed up with how come zergs never spread their banelings out to avoid losing 4 banelings to 2. It wasn't like I said "LOL THESE KIDS BLOW" and then changed the subject.
My style of casting gets a lot of haters and I'm working on improving the way I phrase things to be a little more diplomatic. For those who have seen me cast and know my style they understand that I'm not trying to shit all over the players I just look at things a little differently. Most casters try and highlight the good in players play while I focus on what they need to improve on. I host a show where the entire goal of the show is to teach the viewers how to improve their play. When I coach my students I like to focus more on what they are doing wrong and that translates into my casting. Like I said I tend to be very blunt but it is something I am working on.
I appreciate the feedback and hope you read this. I'm not some asshole who hates the game and hates what he does. I can be very aggresive when I cast but again like I said I am trying to improve on that.
On March 15 2012 05:27 Areon wrote: I thought Playhem would have a word with their casters but apparently they're still being jackasses. I can't watch these tourneys anymore, today is the first time I've had to listen to Zoia and my god is that guy obnoxious. Okay regardless of whether you like ZvZ or not if you openly say "why are zerg players so bad" you just look like a jackass. What the heck is his problem? Figured Playhem would be turning over a new leaf but looks like they still have arrogant jerks that insult the very players they're casting. How does that make any sense? No, that wasn't a joke, and if it was that was the worst joke I've ever heard on a stream. If you want some decent casting watch literally any other stream because Playhem is still crap, and pretty much the only stream I've witnessed casters openly insulting their players.
First of all thank you for the feed back its suprising how little people actually will post something. Firstly at the start of the cast I had said that ZvZ was my least favorite matchup. Everyone has one and it was brought up during a discussion Jorosar and I were having. From that moment on chat, my cocaster, and the admins were bringing up the amount of ZvZs that we were actually doing ending up being around 17. It was obvious trolling from everyone and I was going along with it. I was joking around with everyone and we were having a good time with it so I'm sorry you took it seriously. I know right someone saying LOL JUST KIDDING but hey thats the truth of it. I get paid less than a dollar per hour to cast I do this because I love it there is no way I would invest this much time into casting if I didn't love everything about it.
Regards to the statement of me saying "why are zerg players so bad". I am an analytical caster and I tend to be very blunt. My style focuses on pointing out the flaws in players builds so my viewers can see what mistakes players make and how to improve off of it. Now I remember when I said this and you can quote anything and make it seem bad out of context. However even in context it was still a little blunt. I come from BW where players played perfectly so when I look at people play SC2 I can tend to be a little harsh when I see the lower level players play. It is the main thing I am working towards improving myself as a caster. Most of the games we had casted that day were full of several mistakes that led to very back and forth games. I would like to state that when I had said this I had followed up with how come zergs never spread their banelings out to avoid losing 4 banelings to 2. It wasn't like I said "LOL THESE KIDS BLOW" and then changed the subject.
My style of casting gets a lot of haters and I'm working on improving the way I phrase things to be a little more diplomatic. For those who have seen me cast and know my style they understand that I'm not trying to shit all over the players I just look at things a little differently. Most casters try and highlight the good in players play while I focus on what they need to improve on. I host a show where the entire goal of the show is to teach the viewers how to improve their play. When I coach my students I like to focus more on what they are doing wrong and that translates into my casting. Like I said I tend to be very blunt but it is something I am working on.
I appreciate the feedback and hope you read this. I'm not some asshole who hates the game and hates what he does. I can be very aggresive when I cast but again like I said I am trying to improve on that.
I think you're the worst caster I have ever seen. I will no longer share my twitter with you. Good day
On March 15 2012 05:27 Areon wrote: I thought Playhem would have a word with their casters but apparently they're still being jackasses. I can't watch these tourneys anymore, today is the first time I've had to listen to Zoia and my god is that guy obnoxious. Okay regardless of whether you like ZvZ or not if you openly say "why are zerg players so bad" you just look like a jackass. What the heck is his problem? Figured Playhem would be turning over a new leaf but looks like they still have arrogant jerks that insult the very players they're casting. How does that make any sense? No, that wasn't a joke, and if it was that was the worst joke I've ever heard on a stream. If you want some decent casting watch literally any other stream because Playhem is still crap, and pretty much the only stream I've witnessed casters openly insulting their players.
First of all thank you for the feed back its suprising how little people actually will post something. Firstly at the start of the cast I had said that ZvZ was my least favorite matchup. Everyone has one and it was brought up during a discussion Jorosar and I were having. From that moment on chat, my cocaster, and the admins were bringing up the amount of ZvZs that we were actually doing ending up being around 17. It was obvious trolling from everyone and I was going along with it. I was joking around with everyone and we were having a good time with it so I'm sorry you took it seriously. I know right someone saying LOL JUST KIDDING but hey thats the truth of it. I get paid less than a dollar per hour to cast I do this because I love it there is no way I would invest this much time into casting if I didn't love everything about it.
Regards to the statement of me saying "why are zerg players so bad". I am an analytical caster and I tend to be very blunt. My style focuses on pointing out the flaws in players builds so my viewers can see what mistakes players make and how to improve off of it. Now I remember when I said this and you can quote anything and make it seem bad out of context. However even in context it was still a little blunt. I come from BW where players played perfectly so when I look at people play SC2 I can tend to be a little harsh when I see the lower level players play. It is the main thing I am working towards improving myself as a caster. Most of the games we had casted that day were full of several mistakes that led to very back and forth games. I would like to state that when I had said this I had followed up with how come zergs never spread their banelings out to avoid losing 4 banelings to 2. It wasn't like I said "LOL THESE KIDS BLOW" and then changed the subject.
My style of casting gets a lot of haters and I'm working on improving the way I phrase things to be a little more diplomatic. For those who have seen me cast and know my style they understand that I'm not trying to shit all over the players I just look at things a little differently. Most casters try and highlight the good in players play while I focus on what they need to improve on. I host a show where the entire goal of the show is to teach the viewers how to improve their play. When I coach my students I like to focus more on what they are doing wrong and that translates into my casting. Like I said I tend to be very blunt but it is something I am working on.
I appreciate the feedback and hope you read this. I'm not some asshole who hates the game and hates what he does. I can be very aggresive when I cast but again like I said I am trying to improve on that.
I think you're the worst caster I have ever seen. I will no longer share my twitter with you. Good day
Ahh Robin he's pretty average. I mean all the playhem casters are average at best, right?
One thing i've noticed from my conversion from Warcraft 3 to sc2 is that Warcraft 3 pro maps had sponsors banners as decals ontop of crucial points where casters are looking constantly, for example, we'd see a banner imprinted onto the map of say, intel, right on each base's natural. These are purely cosmetic and would not change gameplay other than sponsors being seen,
If this is the feedback thread, then here is mine.... Awesome cast, fun to watch, but I personally like it if the cussing was toned down a bit just because I have family near me so often when I'm watching esports and such. Otherwise...Webcamz ploxzor! :D
3rd day watching in a row, i am loving it. Does Zoia ever not cast? One critique is that whenever you do the animation to go in and out of the screen that shows when commercial are on the encoder seems to freeze i think, it sorta ruins the effect. Great Job, i will continue to watch
Great tournament! I watch it nearly every day I really do notice when there are no caster's on that day. I love most of the caster's but there are a few I dislike. More on that later
The website has it's up's and down's, most noteably I really wish that it was possible (or easier if i have just not found a way) to access previous tournament result's aswell download the replay's again. Maybe it is a glitch but the past few days i have not been able to find the replays on the bracket page that was very nice. If there are certain Pro player's who do not wan't there replay's widely available.
If there is a reason not to have replay's I have not considered, More coverage of game's would be nice there are so many game's I would like to see but the main cast does not follow them. I really feel aswell that the caster's could move around a bit more and follow different player's, just by asking another matchup to wait before they begin. I can't count how many time's i have got up and left because the past 3 matchups have been TSLhyun vs several other people. It get's boring seeing one person in the same matchup over and over. Sometime's the tourny can be rather short if that is the case I would love to see the match for third place after or before the finals from time to time!. I would also love to see bigger name's more consistantly, there are definantly some big player's consistantly in playhem but more is better!
The webcam's were nice, I hope you would bring them back!
I must admit I do not like zoia's casting he seem's to have an elitist attitude aswell isn't fun to play fangame's with they are supposed to be fun and calling your teammates bad is a bad show of faith during fangames. I'm sure this has been mentioned in this thread, unfortunately I have not read all of the post's and this is a known problem already just figured i would add my say so that the scope of the situation can be shown more accurately. The way that he takes pride in his bad mannerism/elitism/rudeness is a bad thing, if he is proud to be an asshole it makes him more likely to act like one. I have heard him say im trying to be nicer then 5 minutes later brag about it again.
I must admit I do not like zoia's casting he seem's to have an elitist attitude aswell isn't fun to play fangame's with they are supposed to be fun and calling your teammates bad is a bad show of faith during fangames. I'm sure this has been mentioned in this thread, unfortunately I have not read all of the post's and this is a known problem already just figured i would add my say so that the scope of the situation can be shown more accurately. The way that he takes pride in his bad mannerism/elitism/rudeness is a bad thing, if he is proud to be an asshole it makes him more likely to act like one. I have heard him say im trying to be nicer then 5 minutes later brag about it again.
The trash talk during the fan games was going both ways so if you want to get upset about me trash talking also be mad about everyone else doing it. It was fun and everyone was having a good time with it sorry you only saw one side of that. I wouldn't call myself an elitist my style of casting is focused on trying to imrpove my viewers. I try and point out the flaws in plays so we can see how to improve. I can see how it comes off as cocky and arogant based off of the way I phrase I am working on improving how I word things. I wouldn't say I take pride in being rude or BM however. I appreciate the feedback just wanted you to know that everything going on in the fan games was just fun. Like I said the trash talk was going both ways.
I must admit I do not like zoia's casting he seem's to have an elitist attitude aswell isn't fun to play fangame's with they are supposed to be fun and calling your teammates bad is a bad show of faith during fangames. I'm sure this has been mentioned in this thread, unfortunately I have not read all of the post's and this is a known problem already just figured i would add my say so that the scope of the situation can be shown more accurately. The way that he takes pride in his bad mannerism/elitism/rudeness is a bad thing, if he is proud to be an asshole it makes him more likely to act like one. I have heard him say im trying to be nicer then 5 minutes later brag about it again.
The trash talk during the fan games was going both ways so if you want to get upset about me trash talking also be mad about everyone else doing it. It was fun and everyone was having a good time with it sorry you only saw one side of that. I wouldn't call myself an elitist my style of casting is focused on trying to imrpove my viewers. I try and point out the flaws in plays so we can see how to improve. I can see how it comes off as cocky and arogant based off of the way I phrase I am working on improving how I word things. I wouldn't say I take pride in being rude or BM however. I appreciate the feedback just wanted you to know that everything going on in the fan games was just fun. Like I said the trash talk was going both ways.
What I saw during the fan games was whomever the other caster was i forget now talking about the bet with football/soccer etc etc. That was fine and friendly, What I saw as harmful was comment's like my team is awful, i lost because it was zoia vs 4 other people my team didn't do anything. What is that Thor doing?!?! he is being useless! I truly felt bad for your teammates during that soccer game as they just silently sat there and took it as you called them bad and blamed them for losing. I don't see that as both way's, unless i missed some trash talk in PM's. People who do not know you on a personal level will take joking much differently, it is best to not use humor such as that with people whom you do not know. I'm not talking about your elitist attitude when you do your late replay show to improve the viewer's. I think it is good to point out the flaws in peoples plays and that should continue. However whenever you cast I personally get an elitist vibe from you. This comes from the way you word what you say. One example from tonight's cast was when you asked for questions one that popped up was how to get over ladder anxiety? There was a lengthy discussion on this but your opening statement was simply, Don't be a pussy, I could tank my ladder and not care. Saying something simply like, Getting over ladder anxiety is simple. Whether you play to win, for self betterment, or for fun you can see why you lost and see it as an opportunity to improve your play. Look at your replay figure out what went wrong what you could have done better. etc etc. I have met many people who just sound serious and insulting when they speak but really they are trying to just be funny and poke fun. Most people do this, however some people just can't properly convey the true meaning of the word's they use. In this case it may be better to not joke, or think and plan your words accordingly.Tone is something much more difficult to learn how to convey but generally if you pick your word's carefully tone will follow accordingly.
Everyone can improve their own ability to communicate, myself included having perfect communication is difficult to master. Someone such as a caster who is in the public eye should be very careful in how they approach the public. Even in your post you could reword thing's to convey a completely different meaning, Looking at your very first sentence it read's, "The trash talk during the fan games was going both ways so if you want to get upset about me trash talking also be mad about everyone else doing it." You start by essentially attacking me, saying not to get upset about it to get upset about everyone else. Your point would be substantially less rude and even more a stronger point if you simply eliminated that. Saying "Trash talk was happening both ways, It was intended to be a bit of fun poking between myself and the other person.I apologize if you take my casting as elitist, I only intend the best for all party's by pointing out flaws in strategy so that people can learn from each others and/or their own mistakes or misjudgments."
I must admit I do not like zoia's casting he seem's to have an elitist attitude aswell isn't fun to play fangame's with they are supposed to be fun and calling your teammates bad is a bad show of faith during fangames. I'm sure this has been mentioned in this thread, unfortunately I have not read all of the post's and this is a known problem already just figured i would add my say so that the scope of the situation can be shown more accurately. The way that he takes pride in his bad mannerism/elitism/rudeness is a bad thing, if he is proud to be an asshole it makes him more likely to act like one. I have heard him say im trying to be nicer then 5 minutes later brag about it again.
The trash talk during the fan games was going both ways so if you want to get upset about me trash talking also be mad about everyone else doing it. It was fun and everyone was having a good time with it sorry you only saw one side of that. I wouldn't call myself an elitist my style of casting is focused on trying to imrpove my viewers. I try and point out the flaws in plays so we can see how to improve. I can see how it comes off as cocky and arogant based off of the way I phrase I am working on improving how I word things. I wouldn't say I take pride in being rude or BM however. I appreciate the feedback just wanted you to know that everything going on in the fan games was just fun. Like I said the trash talk was going both ways.
What I saw during the fan games was whomever the other caster was i forget now talking about the bet with football/soccer etc etc. That was fine and friendly, What I saw as harmful was comment's like my team is awful, i lost because it was zoia vs 4 other people my team didn't do anything. What is that Thor doing?!?! he is being useless! I truly felt bad for your teammates during that soccer game as they just silently sat there and took it as you called them bad and blamed them for losing. I don't see that as both way's, unless i missed some trash talk in PM's. People who do not know you on a personal level will take joking much differently, it is best to not use humor such as that with people whom you do not know. I'm not talking about your elitist attitude when you do your late replay show to improve the viewer's. I think it is good to point out the flaws in peoples plays and that should continue. However whenever you cast I personally get an elitist vibe from you. This comes from the way you word what you say. One example from tonight's cast was when you asked for questions one that popped up was how to get over ladder anxiety? There was a lengthy discussion on this but your opening statement was simply, Don't be a pussy, I could tank my ladder and not care. Saying something simply like, Getting over ladder anxiety is simple. Whether you play to win, for self betterment, or for fun you can see why you lost and see it as an opportunity to improve your play. Look at your replay figure out what went wrong what you could have done better. etc etc. I have met many people who just sound serious and insulting when they speak but really they are trying to just be funny and poke fun. Most people do this, however some people just can't properly convey the true meaning of the word's they use. In this case it may be better to not joke, or think and plan your words accordingly.Tone is something much more difficult to learn how to convey but generally if you pick your word's carefully tone will follow accordingly.
Everyone can improve their own ability to communicate, myself included having perfect communication is difficult to master. Someone such as a caster who is in the public eye should be very careful in how they approach the public. Even in your post you could reword thing's to convey a completely different meaning, Looking at your very first sentence it read's, "The trash talk during the fan games was going both ways so if you want to get upset about me trash talking also be mad about everyone else doing it." You start by essentially attacking me, saying not to get upset about it to get upset about everyone else. Your point would be substantially less rude and even more a stronger point if you simply eliminated that. Saying "Trash talk was happening both ways, It was intended to be a bit of fun poking between myself and the other person.I apologize if you take my casting as elitist, I only intend the best for all party's by pointing out flaws in strategy so that people can learn from each others and/or their own mistakes or misjudgments."
I agree with everything said right here. I am obviously not a very diplomatic person. It does seem like I was attacking you with my first post and I'm sorry for that. I always appreciate the feedback and try to never take it personally. I'm constantly being coached by Robin and Frodan on how to imrpove the way I say things so I don't come off as a complete asshole. And you're right I do say things that make me seem like an asshole. For people who don't know me on a personal level or seen my casts before I come off as a complete dickhead. It's the main thing on the top of my head right now when casting is trying to word things correctly. I will be the first to admit that I am a very flawed caster. The fact that I have the opportunity to cast for such an amazing company is mind boggling.
I appreciate the feedback hopefully over my next couple of casts I can show you that I'm not just some asshole and that I actually aim at improving the way I phrase things.
Playhem, I love you. Since I first tuned in to Playhem in November I've been watching almost daily, though due to a lack of time on my part and the lack of certain casters who are no longer with Playhem actively, that is no longer the case. However I try and put as much time as I can towards watching when the casters I have come to love are casting. Robin, Kibbelz, Zoia, and Pokebunny are the only casters who I really set the time aside to watch anymore.
The casting schedule and caster list do not seem up to date, or they don't seem to really matter to you guys. This sucks for me, as I'm quite the biased individual and I can say I don't like watching some of the Playhem casters. It's difficult to for me to want to ensure I've free time to watch the NA daily when I'm not even sure if the casters I like will be there. I'd really appreciate if you could work on having a schedule which reflects the casters that'll be at that event. I understand the inability to always adhere to the schedule every single day, but the schedule shown here doesn't seem to have been followed hardly at all, and it seems a tad bit unprofessional.
On March 16 2012 14:16 IrwinTheBoognish wrote: Playhem, I love you. Since I first tuned in to Playhem in November I've been watching almost daily, though due to a lack of time on my part and the lack of certain casters who are no longer with Playhem actively, that is no longer the case. However I try and put as much time as I can towards watching when the casters I have come to love are casting. Robin, Kibbelz, Zoia, and Pokebunny are the only casters who I really set the time aside to watch anymore.
The casting schedule and caster list do not seem up to date, or they don't seem to really matter to you guys. This sucks for me, as I'm quite the biased individual and I can say I don't like watching some of the Playhem casters. It's difficult to for me to want to ensure I've free time to watch the NA daily when I'm not even sure if the casters I like will be there. I'd really appreciate if you could work on having a schedule which reflects the casters that'll be at that event. I understand the inability to always adhere to the schedule every single day, but the schedule shown here doesn't seem to have been followed hardly at all, and it seems a tad bit unprofessional.
With <3, Boognish
Our schedule got completely destroyed in the last week or two, the new one should be finished in the next few days
On March 16 2012 14:16 IrwinTheBoognish wrote: Playhem, I love you. Since I first tuned in to Playhem in November I've been watching almost daily, though due to a lack of time on my part and the lack of certain casters who are no longer with Playhem actively, that is no longer the case. However I try and put as much time as I can towards watching when the casters I have come to love are casting. Robin, Kibbelz, Zoia, and Pokebunny are the only casters who I really set the time aside to watch anymore.
The casting schedule and caster list do not seem up to date, or they don't seem to really matter to you guys. This sucks for me, as I'm quite the biased individual and I can say I don't like watching some of the Playhem casters. It's difficult to for me to want to ensure I've free time to watch the NA daily when I'm not even sure if the casters I like will be there. I'd really appreciate if you could work on having a schedule which reflects the casters that'll be at that event. I understand the inability to always adhere to the schedule every single day, but the schedule shown here doesn't seem to have been followed hardly at all, and it seems a tad bit unprofessional.
With <3, Boognish
Our schedule got completely destroyed in the last week or two, the new one should be finished in the next few days
Losing casters and a lot of us starting school/real life stuff really messed up the schedule haha
I enjoyed Mente, and kibblez as always. I think it's imperative to engage your community and viewership akin to how these casters do. I definitely followed the channel and have been a semi-regular viewer, they make the experience, it's not just starcraft when you're watching playhem. I would blatantly endorse this channel to anyone interested in the esports community.
New schedule has been updated on the OP, we're going to be trying to adhere to it as much as we can there will probably still be a couple exceptions/missed days for a while with MLG coming up but you should see us much closer to our usual level of consistent casts in the coming weeks.
Dearest Playhem, I'm not a fan of League of Legends, so I'm a bit upset that I didn't get to watch part of the NA daily today. I understand that LoL is a popular e-sport with a rather large viewer base. Hell, I've seen Playhem with more viewers today than I have ever seen it have with SC2. That being said, I don't want to watch it. There are people who do, and that's fine, but would it be possible for you to run a secondary stream if you're going to continue doing this LoL business? If ya'll think LoL will get you more revenue than SC2, put the SC2 on the secondary stream I suppose, but I'd really like to not miss out on the hot Playhem-SC2 action.
I am also not a fan of either of the casters. One of the good thing about Playhem's SC2 casters is, they interact with the chat, these casters don't seem to do that at all. Perhaps you could encourage these casters to do so to make the experience more enjoyable for the viewers? Or find other casters who pull it off better, I know your SC2 casters are quite good at this, and I know at least Robin plays LoL. If you continue doing this League of Legends stuff, I'd be willing to watch (begrudgingly) if there is a Robin involved.
Not -entirely- playhem-related, but I want to give a big congrats to the playhem casters who were part of the casting team at MLG over the weekend. You guys did a great job . That said, it's also great to have you all back in action with the playhem daily so we can get some good SC2 action instead of the LoL showmatch scraps that were getting thrown our way. Nothing against LoL, but it can't hold a candle to a proper, well-casted playhem daily tournament.
Here's a slightly more in-depth version, since I've seen this question asked a lot in the stream chat lately.
Step 1: Go to http://playhem.com/, then click the "Sign up" button (top right) and enter the necessary info (username, email etc.).
Step 2: Now you need to find your character code and Starcraft 2 Battle.net profile.
To do this, go to the Battle.net website for your respective area (NA, EU, Korea, China or SEA), log in using your normal Starcraft 2 account info, and then click on the huge Starcraft 2 button. Then, click on your in-game name in the upper right to see your character code (it'll be displayed right after your account name in the popout that appears - For example: someguy#736). Write that down or memorize it. Finally, copy the profile link from that same popout to the clipboard for later use.
Step 3: Back on http://playhem.com/ , make sure you are logged in, and then click the "Games" button at the top-middle of the page, just to the right right of the Playhem TV logo. In the popout that just appeared you need to enter the information you just got from Battle.net. Paste the profile link into the field for the correct area, then the character code in the field next to it, and hit enter. Do NOT hit enter before having entered both of them. Once you hit enter, Playhem will read your public profile info for use in seeding, and you are done with the account setup. If you have accounts for more than one area, just repeat steps two and three to add these profiles to your Playhem account.
Congratulations! You now have a working player account with Playhem and are ready to join Starcraft tournaments.
To find a list of tournaments, go to http://playhem.com/tourneys or just follow the "Tournaments" link that now appears at the top of the main page (you only get that if logged in). From there, just click on the tournament you want to join, and once in the page for that tournament you will see a green "Join" button in the upper right of the page if you are eligible to play. If there's no join button, either it is too late to join the tournament or it is taking place in a Starcraft 2 realm for which you haven't registered an account. For example, you can't join tournaments played on the North American server if you've only registered an EU or China profile with Playhem.
Once you've clicked the join button, you still need to check in shortly before the tournament starts to confirm that you are going to show. And that done, you are ready to play. Once the tournament starts, the Join page will magically morph into the tournament brackets, and you can see who your first opponent is.
Here's a slightly more in-depth version, since I've seen this question asked a lot in the stream chat lately.
Step 1: Go to http://playhem.com/, then click the "Sign up" button (top right) and enter the necessary info (username, email etc.).
Step 2: Now you need to find your character code and Starcraft 2 Battle.net profile.
To do this, go to the Battle.net website for your respective area (NA, EU, Korea, China or SEA), log in using your normal Starcraft 2 account info, and then click on the huge Starcraft 2 button. Then, click on your in-game name in the upper right to see your character code (it'll be displayed right after your account name in the popout that appears - For example: someguy#736). Write that down or memorize it. Finally, copy the profile link from that same popout to the clipboard for later use.
Step 3: Back on http://playhem.com/ , make sure you are logged in, and then click the "Games" button at the top-middle of the page, just to the right right of the Playhem TV logo. In the popout that just appeared you need to enter the information you just got from Battle.net. Paste the profile link into the field for the correct area, then the character code in the field next to it, and hit enter. Do NOT hit enter before having entered both of them. Once you hit enter, Playhem will read your public profile info for use in seeding, and you are done with the account setup. If you have accounts for more than one area, just repeat steps two and three to add these profiles to your Playhem account.
Congratulations! You now have a working player account with Playhem and are ready to join Starcraft tournaments.
To find a list of tournaments, go to http://playhem.com/tourneys or just follow the "Tournaments" link that now appears at the top of the main page (you only get that if logged in). From there, just click on the tournament you want to join, and once in the page for that tournament you will see a green "Join" button in the upper right of the page if you are eligible to play. If there's no join button, either it is too late to join the tournament or it is taking place in a Starcraft 2 realm for which you haven't registered an account. For example, you can't join tournaments played on the North American server if you've only registered an EU or China profile with Playhem.
Once you've clicked the join button, you still need to check in shortly before the tournament starts to confirm that you are going to show. And that done, you are ready to play. Once the tournament starts, the Join page will magically morph into the tournament brackets, and you can see who your first opponent is.
On April 10 2012 01:38 Acchernar wrote: Now if Ben had posted that instead of just a link to Playhem, I could have saved minutes of writing. Minutes! But it's ok. I forgive him.
Added a link to that guide to the Liquipedia page for the Playhem Daily. Hopefully that'll help cut down on the chat questions some.
PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE FIX your replay system. I have spoke with all the admins unfortunate, astro, and put in help tickets about the reply packs not working. They all tell me its getting looked into, but I think thats bs. Its been almost 3 months now still not fixed
On April 12 2012 12:16 maxell720 wrote: PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE FIX your replay system. I have spoke with all the admins unfortunate, astro, and put in help tickets about the reply packs not working. They all tell me its getting looked into, but I think thats bs. Its been almost 3 months now still not fixed
On April 23 2012 13:08 Fanifia wrote: wow. you're right. no one has posted in a while. and great cast tonight! <3 <3 <3 :D
Agreed.
I personally have been slacking on this post. I've been putting feedback on it since it began - and SO much has changed. I want to see the EU and NA Dailies succeed - and they had gaps for a while. It put a tear in my eye, and well - I will admit - I have been really busy after Columbus MLG - (and while working, I switch between P'hem and NASL since they air at the same time.) The people whom I've met here have become friends - and have also moved on to great opportunities. I love it when they make appearances - come back - cast - keep Playhem's heart beating - offer nostalgia.
It's great to see that my friends in chat are still here - It's great to see that awesome players are still coming to the Daily tournaments - some even moving on to the BIG tourneys (see: viOLet) - I'm really happy that Kibbs and Lyrlian have been working their backsides off to keep the stream alive - I'm happy that the Zoia show will be back for the fans! I'm happy that Pokebunny helps out! I will say - we need more Livinpink - not just because we're friends, but because she brings viewers - gets pretty good feedback, and keeps people happy.
I miss the "old" crew - but I'm really happy for them.
As I said though - I REALLY want to see Playhem succeed - to keep growing and moving forward - It holds a dear place in my heart.
On April 24 2012 05:28 BrightSideSC2 wrote: I will say - we need more Livinpink - not just because we're friends, but because she brings viewers - gets pretty good feedback, and keeps people happy.
Glad you mentioned that, she is scheduled to do a cast next week!
In other news, for anyone who watched Gwin's trial cast today please let me know how you felt about it and feel free to leave additional comments below:
Poll: How did you like Gwin's casting?
It was great, I would like to see him as a permanent caster (16)
53%
It was pretty good, I want to see more of him (12)
40%
It needs work and I don't think he's ready to be a permanent caster (1)
3%
I didn't enjoy his casting (1)
3%
30 total votes
Your vote: How did you like Gwin's casting?
(Vote): It was great, I would like to see him as a permanent caster (Vote): It was pretty good, I want to see more of him (Vote): It needs work and I don't think he's ready to be a permanent caster (Vote): I didn't enjoy his casting
I was also very happy with Zoia's casting - I think the analysis was spot on for pretty much everything on the games. I was also very happy with the energy he developed over the course of some of the longer games. It's pretty easy to ruin the flow by continuing to be loud and excited about material that doesn't require it, and Zoia handled the pacing almost perfectly. The only faux pas at all was being so blunt when the stream was having challenges Zoia could not resolve at the time. While true, it came off as defensive, when people really just wanted to make sure the caster was informed of what was going on. Definitely want to see him cast again!
On April 29 2012 15:00 DizzahGee wrote: I was also very happy with Zoia's casting - I think the analysis was spot on for pretty much everything on the games. I was also very happy with the energy he developed over the course of some of the longer games. It's pretty easy to ruin the flow by continuing to be loud and excited about material that doesn't require it, and Zoia handled the pacing almost perfectly. The only faux pas at all was being so blunt when the stream was having challenges Zoia could not resolve at the time. While true, it came off as defensive, when people really just wanted to make sure the caster was informed of what was going on. Definitely want to see him cast again!
It is something I am working on I tend to get flustered when something like that happens. Thanks for the advice hopefully you don't have to see me fail like that again!
For anyone who watches Livinpink's cast today, please tell us what you think!
Poll: How did you like Livinpink's casting?
It was great, I would like to see her as a permanent caster (96)
56%
I didn't enjoy her casting (30)
18%
It was pretty good, I want to see more of her (26)
15%
It needs work and I don't think she's ready to be a permanent caster (18)
11%
170 total votes
Your vote: How did you like Livinpink's casting?
(Vote): It was great, I would like to see her as a permanent caster (Vote): It was pretty good, I want to see more of her (Vote): It needs work and I don't think she's ready to be a permanent caster (Vote): I didn't enjoy her casting
Well I kinda dislike the (a little bit too often) wrong predictions, the accent and the fact that she sometimes miss important stuff going on, while talking about random stuff (often something pink, no... not that).
Definitely need to work some on that. Overall kinda meh but I can see it working out with some practice.
i think the casters tend to tbe wayy to critical on certain points in the game. i understand that sometimes threres gotta be fill in time but the way they criticise the play of the players is from a third view they dont really know whats going on through the players head via scouting and such and choose to not take that into consideratrion. Little bit more credit to the high end players that are playing in the tournyey's please remewmber this is a competition so mistakes are gonna happen not easy competing with the best
He didn't say they moved, he said they are not easy to find. I didn't see that information anywhere else. Besides, even yesterday's dailies are not there, and Liquipedia is only up to date for EU.
please, leave the hp bars on. a viewer wants to know if the ghost/banshee has still energy to stay cloaked, if a drop snipes the evo with the upgrade, if the ultra can be sniped with focus fire and things like that. you propably cover _some_ things with ALT or highlighting, but you miss most things, viewers wants to see. its the same with mlg/gsl/ipl i guess some PR clowns think that the game would look better without them, but thats just a brainfart. how can you enjoy the game when you dont know exactly whats going on? or are these casts especially done for casual gamers?
sry but i am angry, everytime i miss something because of missing hp bars. and thats really often.
Something to note for those having trouble finding the brackets: Since recently, you need to be logged into the Playhem website to see all the tournaments listed at http://playhem.com/tourneys - and that includes the open 75$ Daily tournaments. You can still see the page for them without being logged in if you can find it, but the tournament page won't give you the link.
So if you can't find the tournament you're looking for, try logging in. Alternatively, ask in the Playhem TV stream chat, and it's more likely than not that someone will link the current tournament to you scant seconds after you hit enter.
Psylence and Zoia do a great cast together, everything feels so fluid, they don't ever have dead air and they know how to keep a conversation flowing! Great work guys :D
Was quite impressed with Zoia's casting in the grand finals tonight. That he had been doing 6+ hours of solo casting and still kept up and entertained the viewers is impressive. Will be catching more of the Playhems now and hope to see him casting some more.
I appreciate all the positive feedback I've been getting guys ^_^ For the longest time I was only getting bad reviews its good to see that I have actually improved here at playhem ^_^
I registered specifically to tell everyone here that they need to be watching Zoia the boy kid wonder casting games and bringing wonderful amounts of enjoyment to his viewers! Always a good cast when Zoia is about.
I'm also a big fan of Schamtoo and Psylence, great casters all around the place!
mods are a bad thing for casters i think... it starts with something small, and in a few years everyone will have their own custom unit skins& textures... leave the game as it is.. let em get confused, that helps illustrate how hard it is for the players.
Zoia sucks. He needs to be fired. Psylence is sexy and amazing. Just kidding of course. Another wonderful cast. Wanted to hear more of Psylence because I haven't seen him cast in a while. Unforunately, he got to the daily late and had to leave a little early. Again, awesome cast today. Thank you!!!!! <3 (5 !s)
For anyone watching watching tonight's daily, please tell us what you think!
Poll: How did you like Talex's casting?
It was great, I would like to see him as a permanent caster (37)
84%
It was pretty good, I want to see more of him (5)
11%
It needs work and I don't think he's ready to be a permanent caster (1)
2%
I didn't enjoy his casting (1)
2%
44 total votes
Your vote: How did you like Talex's casting?
(Vote): It was great, I would like to see him as a permanent caster (Vote): It was pretty good, I want to see more of him (Vote): It needs work and I don't think he's ready to be a permanent caster (Vote): I didn't enjoy his casting
It's a shame Talex isn't more famous then he is right now. He's a great person, great caster, and his stream is well, great! The idea of casting games of the everyday sc2 player instead of pros is great (im too lazy to think of other words)
It would be awesome to maybe see him one day as a caster for a huge tournament, maybe casing my first game :>
So I watched Zoia (I think?) casting Puck vs Ragnarok and they did a base trade. He focused on speculating who would win from it. I feel a more entertaining option would be to focus on how they could transition from there. It's more challenging because it takes a lot of knowing the races and the strategies and a lot of times the predictions are wrong but that's not as important as filling in the time as the next thing happens. I enjoyed the enthusiasm! :D
The guy in chat was quite strange tonight. Many people like the fan interaction and when casters talk to chat. I say keep doing what you're doing Zoia and Talex. Also my chat broke so i couldnt talk in chat, thats why i "left". I'm sorry for not being there for you all.
On June 07 2012 12:17 Fanifia wrote: The guy in chat was quite strange tonight. Many people like the fan interaction and when casters talk to chat. I say keep doing what you're doing Zoia and Talex. Also my chat broke so i couldnt talk in chat, thats why i "left". I'm sorry for not being there for you all.
♥ Fanifia :D ♥
We still love you man, sorry I could only jump in at the finals :D
I guess you do need to know where to look, but I wouldn't call it hard. All current and upcoming brackets are listed at http://www.playhem.com/tourneys - Note though that some tournaments require you to be logged in to find the brackets there, so if you can't find a certain bracket on that page, make sure you have a playhem account and are logged in. Hope that helps.
It was great, I would like to see her as a permanent caster (96)
58%
I didn't enjoy her casting (41)
25%
It needs work and I don't think she's ready to be a permanent caster (19)
11%
It was pretty good, I want to see more of her (10)
6%
166 total votes
Your vote: How did you like Livinpink's casting?
(Vote): It was great, I would like to see her as a permanent caster (Vote): It was pretty good, I want to see more of her (Vote): It needs work and I don't think she's ready to be a permanent caster (Vote): I didn't enjoy her casting
I dont care for livin pinks casting. I agree a girl caster is good but you need to have someone whose casting is enjoyable for more than the fact that she is a girl. Love the other casters though.
I was asked to leave feedback in this thread, so I will say (while watching the WCS Canada qualifiers on June 27th, ~9PM onwards PDT):
1) Pokebunny, please don't speak with your mouth full! 2) Pokebunny, please use the on-screen writing very sparingly 3) Pokebunny, I think you sounded pretty knowledgeable game-wise 4) The other guy, I like your voice. Also, I liked your "White Ra says 'more gg, more skill' - I say, 'more units, more gg'". It's funny AND profound.
On June 28 2012 13:45 Jacmert wrote: I was asked to leave feedback in this thread, so I will say (while watching the WCS Canada qualifiers on June 27th, ~9PM onwards PDT):
1) Pokebunny, please don't speak with your mouth full! 2) Pokebunny, please use the on-screen writing very sparingly 3) Pokebunny, I think you sounded pretty knowledgeable game-wise 4) The other guy, I like your voice. Also, I liked your "White Ra says 'more gg, more skill' - I say, 'more units, more gg'". It's funny AND profound.
I wasn't the streamer, I didn't do the writing =p
@ #1 - this was a much longer cast than expected, so I simply had to eat something apologies.
On June 28 2012 13:45 Jacmert wrote: I was asked to leave feedback in this thread, so I will say (while watching the WCS Canada qualifiers on June 27th, ~9PM onwards PDT):
1) Pokebunny, please don't speak with your mouth full! 2) Pokebunny, please use the on-screen writing very sparingly 3) Pokebunny, I think you sounded pretty knowledgeable game-wise 4) The other guy, I like your voice. Also, I liked your "White Ra says 'more gg, more skill' - I say, 'more units, more gg'". It's funny AND profound.
I wasn't the streamer, I didn't do the writing =p
@ #1 - this was a much longer cast than expected, so I simply had to eat something apologies.
I think you guys waiting 30 minutes for my f***ing game to finish had to do something with it :S
It was great, I would like to see him as a permanent caster (31)
86%
It was pretty good, I want to see more of him (3)
8%
It needs work and I don't think he's ready to be a permanent caster (2)
6%
I didn't enjoy his casting (0)
0%
36 total votes
Your vote: How did you like Unctious' casting?
(Vote): It was great, I would like to see him as a permanent caster (Vote): It was pretty good, I want to see more of him (Vote): I didn't enjoy his casting (Vote): It needs work and I don't think he's ready to be a permanent caster
Yes. Unctious is doing an amazing job. Besides having a great voice for it, he seems able to easily fit into a casting duo and has plenty knowledge of the game, not to mention the all-important ability to keep talking for hour upon hour. Cast isn't even over yet, but for once I'm willing to vote a big yes already despite it still going on
It was great, I would like to see him as a permanent caster (14)
52%
It needs work and I don't think he's ready to be a permanent caster (7)
26%
It was pretty good, I want to see more of him (6)
22%
I didn't enjoy his casting (0)
0%
27 total votes
Your vote: Poll: How did you like Pixie's casting?
(Vote): It was great, I would like to see him as a permanent caster (Vote): It was pretty good, I want to see more of him (Vote): I didn't enjoy his casting (Vote): It needs work and I don't think he's ready to be a permanent caster
One of the things I think would benefit Playhem stream in general is continuous replays on twitch, when nothing else is scheduled. This is mainly due to the fact that Playhem's fanbase is spread out all over the world, so fans are *ALWAYS* awake, but Playhem *can't* always provide content.
Anyhoo, <3's to Talex, Kibblez (I know you're out there), LUKA and the admin team.
On July 04 2012 10:50 redit wrote: One of the things I think would benefit Playhem stream in general is continuous replays on twitch, when nothing else is scheduled. This is mainly due to the fact that Playhem's fanbase is spread out all over the world, so fans are *ALWAYS* awake, but Playhem *can't* always provide content.
Anyhoo, <3's to Talex, Kibblez (I know you're out there), LUKA and the admin team.
We've tried this, problem is getting it streamed all the time/some people like me can't afford the bandwidth =p
On July 04 2012 10:50 redit wrote: One of the things I think would benefit Playhem stream in general is continuous replays on twitch, when nothing else is scheduled. This is mainly due to the fact that Playhem's fanbase is spread out all over the world, so fans are *ALWAYS* awake, but Playhem *can't* always provide content.
Anyhoo, <3's to Talex, Kibblez (I know you're out there), LUKA and the admin team.
We've tried this, problem is getting it streamed all the time/some people like me can't afford the bandwidth =p
Hey! Just wanted to say that I love UnctiousSC's Casting! And that it would be great to hear/see him at the upcoming Playhem events. I follow and have subscribed to Playhem's channel on Twitch and love it! Ty to Astroorion as well, for being a great admin and helping me out. Only critique of his casting is that form time to time he gets to speed talking for a while too long. But they are small and very bearable and overall have a small effect on his overall casting. Overall I'm a big fan of him so thanx Playhem!
It was great, I would like to see him as a permanent caster (27)
63%
It was pretty good, I want to see more of him (13)
30%
It needs work and I don't think he's ready to be a permanent caster (2)
5%
I didn't enjoy his casting (1)
2%
43 total votes
Your vote: How did you like Jethro's casting?
(Vote): It was great, I would like to see him as a permanent caster (Vote): It was pretty good, I want to see more of him (Vote): I didn't enjoy his casting (Vote): It needs work and I don't think he's ready to be a permanent caster
It was great, I would like to see him as a permanent caster (18)
72%
It was pretty good, I want to see more of him (5)
20%
It needs work and I don't think he's ready to be a permanent caster (2)
8%
I didn't enjoy his casting (0)
0%
25 total votes
Your vote: How did you like NanMan's casting?
(Vote): It was great, I would like to see him as a permanent caster (Vote): It was pretty good, I want to see more of him (Vote): It needs work and I don't think he's ready to be a permanent caster (Vote): I didn't enjoy his casting
Amazing. I want to see him as a permanent caster. (5)
45%
Not good. He needs to practice his casting. (5)
45%
Pretty good. I'd like to see more of him. (1)
9%
Okay. I want to see him cast from time to time. (0)
0%
11 total votes
Your vote: How was UnfortunateLuka's casting?
(Vote): Amazing. I want to see him as a permanent caster. (Vote): Pretty good. I'd like to see more of him. (Vote): Okay. I want to see him cast from time to time. (Vote): Not good. He needs to practice his casting.
The casting was good at points, and lacking at others. In the finals (NaDasBody vs CreatorPrime), the obs and commentary focused on the protoss base for the better part of the game. I only knew what was going on in the zerg base by watching the production tab and guessing.
On July 27 2012 13:44 Joan_of_Arc wrote: The casting was good at points, and lacking at others. In the finals (NaDasBody vs CreatorPrime), the obs and commentary focused on the protoss base for the better part of the game. I only knew what was going on in the zerg base by watching the production tab and guessing.
I agree - My zerg analysis needs more work. And upon improving that, I'll be able to cover zerg more effectively.
EPT![[image loading]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8225426/ph/phtv1.png)
![[image loading]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8225426/ph/phtv2.PNG)
![[image loading]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8225426/ph/phtv3.PNG)
![[image loading]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8225426/ph/phtv6.PNG)
![[image loading]](http://godulous.com:9001/playhem/countdown/daily720.png)
![[image loading]](http://godulous.com:9001/playhem/calendar/calendar.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/In1PM.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RVC1n.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JWKjr.jpg)
. And I hope this gets updated always too ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mymG2.jpg)
<-- well, because these guys keep asking for feedback, I guess I'm just going to dominate this thread for a while.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7XRwy.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WAVfA.jpg)
. That said, it's also great to have you all back in action with the playhem daily so we can get some good SC2 action instead of the LoL showmatch scraps that were getting thrown our way. Nothing against LoL, but it can't hold a candle to a proper, well-casted playhem daily tournament.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SAAkq.jpg)
