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This thread is for discussing recent bans. Don't discuss other topics here. Take it to website feedback if you disagree with a ban or want to raise an issue. Keep it civil.NOTE: For those of you who want to find the actual ABL thread where the bans are posted. Please look in here: https://tl.net/forum/closed-threads/ |
On June 04 2010 09:03 Kong John wrote:
How was that not offensive? She was going to do a lot of work for a bunch of Flash fans. a lot of people sign up for it. Then Rekrul jumps in and says that her whole initiative is completely worthless. Maybe that was just his opinion but its still offensive as hell and on teamliquid you get banned from making statements that are generally offensive. His post did in no way contribute to the thread, if it was me I would have insta-banned him.
rekrul was making a self-deprecating joke about him losing a 10k bet thanks to flash and nevergg just flips like she always does.
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Braavos36402 Posts
On June 04 2010 09:03 Kong John wrote:
How was that not offensive? She was going to do a lot of work for a bunch of Flash fans. a lot of people sign up for it. Then Rekrul jumps in and says that her whole initiative is completely worthless. Maybe that was just his opinion but its still offensive as hell and on teamliquid you get banned from making statements that are generally offensive. His post did in no way contribute to the thread, if it was me I would have insta-banned him.
TL operates on the theory that longtime members get more leniency from Mods. I think it's pretty clear that Rek's post was actually pretty tame for his standards -- it's something NeverGG really should have known. If we applied your standard of moderation to Rekrul, we could pick out 100 times where we should have banned him already. Arguing that this particular instance was bannable isn't really fair if we allow him to post that way for so long. Sure, you can say that we should ban him in general, but that's not what we're talking about here.
Yeah NeverGG may have overreacted but it was still her show, so that's fine. Maybe she shouldn't have called out Rekrul, but its not like he was going to get punished for his behaviour, so why does she get punished for having a bad behaviour towards him? It doesn't make sense. Is Rekrul supposed to be some kind of holy deity that can bash on everybody, but no one can bash on him? Either he should get banned or everyone can say whatever they want about him.
I think its a pretty clear situation of harm and benefit. You can just decide, as a rational person, that cancelling the whole thing would harm all the Flash fans and TL in general way more than it would benefit NeverGG. In fact, cancelling the whole thing benefits NOBODY. It doesn't hurt or punish Rekrul, it doesn't help NeverGG get more respect, its just a lose lose action. It's just not right to subordinate the interests of hundreds over one bad comment by a single user.
I don't see how you can possibly argue that cancelling the entire thread was "fine." How would you feel if we announced Altitude TLI, get five pages of "awesome!" comments, then one user says "I don't like this" and we cancel it? Sure, we have the ability to cancel since it's our show, but that doesn't mean its right. Once something is announced or promised, and our users rely on it, we create an obligation to them. You can't just cancel for no good reason and expect no punishment -- in TL's case it'd be a loss of reputation, in NeverGG's case it's a temporary ban.
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On June 04 2010 09:11 intrigue wrote:
like it or not even his "insult" has truth behind it. flash is much more likely to know rekrul over his thousands of fanboys!
also, people pretty openly talk about what they think about rekrul. he's been tempbanned a few times, demoted from moderator, and warned countlessly for his notorious "honesty" (the quotation marks aren't necessarily a bad thing). i think you are letting your desire to white knight cloud your analysis of the situation - if someone said that to someone else in any other thread, would you jump in and call it "indecent"? don't be so dramatic.
What does it matter if Flash knows Rekrul or his foreign fanboys? That doesn't matter at all, it is about the fanboys wanting to give something back to Flash. Who the cares who Rekrul is?
I may be taking the role of the white knight here. And no, I wouldn't jump in and say something like this if it was a nobody who wrote the OP or the comment. But that is because I wouldn't want to back seat moderate (since I know that the mods would take care of it), or I wouldn't expect it to matter at all.
But this is about a great contributor's work being insulted by a forum veteran. Plus I find the judgement to be unfair.
I don't see how this is overdramatic.
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Hrmmm... yeah if Rek was being serious (I kinda was thinking he wasn't that serious about it) but if he was being serious and conceited about a FU from him was more important than the other messages... I could see someone getting pretty pissed. NeverGG overreacted... but Rek was being an ass unless he meant it in a joking manner.
And perhaps he'll reply that it is true... and it may very well be, I don't really know Rek's noteriety in Korea... but that's kinda besides the point. When I say he was being an ass I meant he was just being conceited thinking that one message from him was more important than 100 from others.
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+ Show Spoiler +On June 04 2010 09:24 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 09:03 Kong John wrote:
How was that not offensive? She was going to do a lot of work for a bunch of Flash fans. a lot of people sign up for it. Then Rekrul jumps in and says that her whole initiative is completely worthless. Maybe that was just his opinion but its still offensive as hell and on teamliquid you get banned from making statements that are generally offensive. His post did in no way contribute to the thread, if it was me I would have insta-banned him. TL operates on the theory that longtime members get more leniency from Mods. I think it's pretty clear that Rek's post was actually pretty tame for his standards -- it's something NeverGG really should have known. If we applied your standard of moderation to Rekrul, we could pick out 100 times where we should have banned him already. Arguing that this particular instance was bannable isn't really fair if we allow him to post that way for so long. Sure, you can say that we should ban him in general, but that's not what we're talking about here. Show nested quote +Yeah NeverGG may have overreacted but it was still her show, so that's fine. Maybe she shouldn't have called out Rekrul, but its not like he was going to get punished for his behaviour, so why does she get punished for having a bad behaviour towards him? It doesn't make sense. Is Rekrul supposed to be some kind of holy deity that can bash on everybody, but no one can bash on him? Either he should get banned or everyone can say whatever they want about him. I think its a pretty clear situation of harm and benefit. You can just decide, as a rational person, that cancelling the whole thing would harm all the Flash fans and TL in general way more than it would benefit NeverGG. In fact, cancelling the whole thing benefits NOBODY. It doesn't hurt or punish Rekrul, it doesn't help NeverGG get more respect, its just a lose lose action. It's just not right to subordinate the interests of hundreds over one bad comment by a single user. I don't see how you can possibly argue that cancelling the entire thread was "fine." How would you feel if we announced Altitude TLI, get five pages of "awesome!" comments, then one user says "I don't like this" and we cancel it? Sure, we have the ability to cancel since it's our show, but that doesn't mean its right. Once something is announced or promised, and our users rely on it, we create an obligation to them. You can't just cancel for no good reason and expect no punishment -- in TL's case it'd be a loss of reputation, in NeverGG's case it's a temporary ban.
I think there is a difference between the TL staff and a contributor. That's why I think this is an important issue. Yes, it damages all of the Flash fans, but it is also the community that brings the demand for such contributions and if a highly respected forum member that used to be a mod insults the work of a contributor, I think that its understandable that this person gets demoralised and stops his work.
This isn't the first time this has happened with regards to Rekrul which is why this needs to be debated. I like the idea that long time members get more leeway. It creates a cool hierarchy among TL members. But these person also represent TL and what it stands for, maybe I'm a bit too idealistic about what TL is, but I don't think Rekrul should have any more leeway than other forum veterans. He has proven time and time again that he is a dick and mildly insults people just for the sake of it. But since he does get more leeway, I think you can easily say that he is more than just your average forum vet.
I want to mention that I do respect the TL mods a great deal. I think they are doing a great job of keeping TL as great as it is, which is why I respect their decisions. I just think at this particular decision is highly debatable.
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Kong John, the mods are who get to decide what does or does not cross the line. I don't think these issues are up for public debate unless otherwise stated. Explanations are done out of courtesy.
Personally, I disagree with you. I think you're blowing what rekrul said way out of proportion. If people are looking to be offended it is everywhere on the internet and even all over this site.
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I like nevergg, as someone who loves starcraft and photography it's difficult not to appreciate all the things she's done.
That being said I really don't get how anybody can defend her behavior there, it was something I would have expected out of a 15 year old teenager, not out of a grown up woman.
I can imagine a person like rekrul generally giving her a very tough time quite well which might have led to her not getting the joke and her overreaction, but that's not an excuse to send a fuck you to everyone who posted in that thread and blame it on him.
And then to tell the mods to permaban her because they all hate her? That's about as childish as it gets.
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9935 Posts
well it's always good to get feedback from regulars on what they think of our ban policies, kind of interesting. i'd just like to point out that bans of any high-profile person will always have several mods weighing in about it in the staff forums, and we generally come to a pretty firm consensus. these things aren't done lightly, if that helps ease your concerns!
in fact i'm pretty impressed by how often bans are questioned either because of the time duration being too long or some perceived misunderstanding - for all our ban-happiness i think we don't give out many unjust punishments.
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I think you guys are doing a great job <3
Only big ban that made me go O_o was when manifesto permabanned huk, but that was quickly reduced to 30 days by kennigit.
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On June 04 2010 10:02 Kong John wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 04 2010 09:24 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2010 09:03 Kong John wrote:
How was that not offensive? She was going to do a lot of work for a bunch of Flash fans. a lot of people sign up for it. Then Rekrul jumps in and says that her whole initiative is completely worthless. Maybe that was just his opinion but its still offensive as hell and on teamliquid you get banned from making statements that are generally offensive. His post did in no way contribute to the thread, if it was me I would have insta-banned him. TL operates on the theory that longtime members get more leniency from Mods. I think it's pretty clear that Rek's post was actually pretty tame for his standards -- it's something NeverGG really should have known. If we applied your standard of moderation to Rekrul, we could pick out 100 times where we should have banned him already. Arguing that this particular instance was bannable isn't really fair if we allow him to post that way for so long. Sure, you can say that we should ban him in general, but that's not what we're talking about here. Show nested quote +Yeah NeverGG may have overreacted but it was still her show, so that's fine. Maybe she shouldn't have called out Rekrul, but its not like he was going to get punished for his behaviour, so why does she get punished for having a bad behaviour towards him? It doesn't make sense. Is Rekrul supposed to be some kind of holy deity that can bash on everybody, but no one can bash on him? Either he should get banned or everyone can say whatever they want about him. I think its a pretty clear situation of harm and benefit. You can just decide, as a rational person, that cancelling the whole thing would harm all the Flash fans and TL in general way more than it would benefit NeverGG. In fact, cancelling the whole thing benefits NOBODY. It doesn't hurt or punish Rekrul, it doesn't help NeverGG get more respect, its just a lose lose action. It's just not right to subordinate the interests of hundreds over one bad comment by a single user. I don't see how you can possibly argue that cancelling the entire thread was "fine." How would you feel if we announced Altitude TLI, get five pages of "awesome!" comments, then one user says "I don't like this" and we cancel it? Sure, we have the ability to cancel since it's our show, but that doesn't mean its right. Once something is announced or promised, and our users rely on it, we create an obligation to them. You can't just cancel for no good reason and expect no punishment -- in TL's case it'd be a loss of reputation, in NeverGG's case it's a temporary ban. I think there is a difference between the TL staff and a contributor. That's why I think this is an important issue. Yes, it damages all of the Flash fans, but it is also the community that brings the demand for such contributions and if a highly respected forum member that used to be a mod insults the work of a contributor, I think that its understandable that this person gets demoralised and stops his work. This isn't the first time this has happened with regards to Rekrul which is why this needs to be debated. I like the idea that long time members get more leeway. It creates a cool hierarchy among TL members. But these person also represent TL and what it stands for, maybe I'm a bit too idealistic about what TL is, but I don't think Rekrul should have any more leeway than other forum veterans. He has proven time and time again that he is a dick and mildly insults people just for the sake of it. But since he does get more leeway, I think you can easily say that he is more than just your average forum vet. I want to mention that I do respect the TL mods a great deal. I think they are doing a great job of keeping TL as great as it is, which is why I respect their decisions. I just think at this particular decision is highly debatable.
I don't think there's a person here who doesn't appreciate the things NeverGG has done for the community. Her contributions have been great, and I'm sure we all hope that after he ban expires she comes back and can put all of this behind her.
Rekrul's posting in the thread can be debated endlessly. Personally I laughed quite hard at his joke. His posts past the initial were unnecessary, but not nearly as harsh as they could have been, and NeverGG should have just taken the higher road and ignored him. Instead she attacked him, which could have been understandable, but it led to Rekrul striking back. Neither was in the right. However, this was nothing out of character for Rekrul. Love him or hate him, he is who he is, and that's part of the reason he's a respected member of the community, as you put it. It's also (I'm assuming) why he's no longer a moderator (I do remember him being quite ban happy.)
Being forum veterans and contributors (and Rekrul has contributed immensely over the years) things probably would have ended with a moderator telling them to cool off, without anyone being banned. But before that could happen, NeverGG pulled the project she had already committed to, all because of one asshole on the internet (I love you Rekrul.) No matter how much Rekrul may have egged her on (once again, I don't think he did much at all), but the poster above is right in saying that the response is characteristic of a fifteen year old throwing a hissy fit.
Now veterans do have a good deal of leniency when it comes to bans, and you may be wondering why NeverGG has been banned. As the mods have pointed out, her period of leniency has run out, and I can't say I don't agree with them. I greatly appreciate all the NeverGG has done for the community, and I hope she'll continue to share, but this isn't the first time I've noticed similar behavior. Rekrul has been banned several times for his behavior in the past, as have other contributers. There's no reason NeverGG should be given a free pass for unacceptable behavior.
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aw, guys, i come to this thread for funny bans. this is starting to feel like the funny pictures thread when they argue about math jokes 
you can't really debate what the mods' decisions are, just let it go
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ahahaa hot_bid ty for the 1 week ban :D
that was awesome
posting in that hilarious thread was worth it :D
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I think you guys are doing a great job <3
Only big ban that made me go O_o was when manifesto permabanned huk, but that was quickly reduced to 30 days by kennigit. What was all this about O.O
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Wow, that project with NeverGG didn't have any type of drama until the end.. that kinda sucks, she shouldn't have let her emotions fly over.
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wow yea i just read the NeverGG thread, crazyness.
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On June 04 2010 12:53 SC2Phoenix wrote:Show nested quote +I think you guys are doing a great job <3
Only big ban that made me go O_o was when manifesto permabanned huk, but that was quickly reduced to 30 days by kennigit. What was all this about O.O
I think he was asking for donations in a "combat-exish" manner.
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where is that thread? 
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I suppose NeverGG ban is the most discussed of the teamliquid history? XD
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Probably one of the most, and it's not even a perm ban. But it makes sense I guess, I'm sure the TL staff had a hard time deciding to hand it out, it's makes sense that the community as a whole would be split when it comes to the ban of a great community contributer.
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Reason: You've been banned for a similar reason before.
Don't stalk Blizzard employees.
just had to post this one. I wonder what the story behind it is.
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EPT
